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CES is in a Mess...


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Plus, in Jesus' culture, there was not another synagog on the corner you could join, leaving the abusive leaders behind! Wasn't Jesus trying to bring about change with in his own culture? It seems to me that the whole sheep analogy was an appeal to the leaders of his time to have some compassion and care of the flock.

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the stock you had (animals) were like money in the bank today.

more sheep = more money . and money has always had its power and say so in every culture since the dawn of time.

people want money. money makes the world go around.

So the p;icture of the shepard LEAVING the flock to rescue one sheep gone astray show the compassion of Jesus alright He is willing to leave all HIS money (his stock ) the sheep, to SAVE JUST ONE life or one dollar (follow me?)

He cares for that one dollar that one worth JUST as much as He does the whole flock!!!!!!

it says something alright .

it is like today we saying Im going to give you a chance to take my millions of dollars because that one dollar bill means so much to me , I love it so much , I will LOSE it all to get it back God gave up HIS MILLION dollar Son (actualy priceless to HIM ) for a people that had done nothing and indeed quite worthless as sinners.

WHY???

Jesus is our shepard He came and got us out of the danger He left the flock to save just one from falling down and getting hurt.

here buddy

take this dollar bill, and give me a million in exchange and we will call it even.

no one really loves that much , that I know , and that is the parable , Jesus is saying this isnt about HOW much your worth to me I love ya man . yes you even if I have to leave All of my flock my worth to prove it.

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The entire bible story is about what Jesus christ did for us. every single bit of it.

all this research and word knowledge comes down to this : the victory of Jesus christ over death.

it is the story of men both adams making choices to obey God or not.

one did one didnt .

the MIRICLE of the new birth isnt in the fact YOU did anything , Christ died not you, so now you never will. If you believe He is risen and LORD and KING.

you know I think people dismiss this fact all together.

Christ willing to die...... dead meant DEAD, He had no proof he wouldnt be a bucket of worms in a few weeks, IT was NOT written about the new birth for all.

God told them to wait for the prophet who would save them, they thought a man would come along and become a great leader and they would then be able to rise as the great nation they wanted once again.

that is what people still want today looking for a leader to take the people to what they think they deserve in life as worshipers of a god better than the rest. a nation with more powerful than the rest of those who do not know God.

do you not get that THEY WERE WRONG !!! and if your looking for the same ideals to happenin life your just as wrong as they who crucified the LORD were wrong???

that is not the plan as it worked out hahahahhaha

no man is going to lead you into anything , other than his or her will .

IT is DONE the will of God was accomplished by ONE MAN already finished YOU can not improve it or make it happen again or spin it or advertise it anymore.

that is why it is such good news.

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My point being, you don't blame the sheep for being sheep. The resposibility for the safety of the flock is the shepard's responsibility.

Right I agree with that.

Jesus is the Good Shepherdand there are some that are co-worker shepherds.

Gotta get back to my farm...the chickens are sqwaking the cows need milking, and the

barn needs fixin' - it's cold up here in Caribou, Maine.

Love and peace from CS...

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your wrong.

your a sheep just like the rest of us. (by your analogy)

who do you think your are exactly?

some how you got a special power that can now take on your own kind ?

YOUR A MAN and a sinner , and by God from reading your post you dearly NEED to be saved.

your all about you and your ego by what I read.

you do not need Jesus christ now? by your words your on your way by work to being HIM already!!!

pretty close a few more won souls and YOU to can be the one who ALWAYS obeyed God.

news flash I doubt your mommy was virgin when her and dad concieved YOU.

do NOT compete with the LORD. YOU lost . YOU LIVE HERE ON EARTH , with the rest of the lost souls wainting to be with the KING in HIS kingdom.

might want to read something about what a KING IS , nope no sharing of the throne in this case.

no "co' nothing dear , He did it all YOU just got born into sin and USED his LOVE for you to tell others you were better than the rest of them.

good luck with that.

your an evil man .

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Pond your leve's (sp) are breaking.

Better get a boat.

Your judgement and rath is out of line.

You write some kissy, kissy stuff about you and God and how you are this wonderful cristian and then the real you comes out.

Get the giant beam out of your own eye first.

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anything specific you want to say to me?

just a general insult? yeh cult heads insult when asked to consider their view without one another, I truly get that idea.

I donot have the knowledge of how to use color font here I just stick to the black and white.

works for me tho .

what is the problem bro?

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The entire bible story is about what Jesus christ did for us. every single bit of it.

all this research and word knowledge comes down to this : the victory of Jesus christ over death.

it is the story of men both adams making choices to obey God or not.

one did one didnt .

the MIRICLE of the new birth isnt in the fact YOU did anything , Christ died not you, so now you never will. If you believe He is risen and LORD and KING.

you know I think people dismiss this fact all together.

Christ willing to die...... dead meant DEAD, He had no proof he wouldnt be a bucket of worms in a few weeks, IT was NOT written about the new birth for all.

God told them to wait for the prophet who would save them, they thought a man would come along and become a great leader and they would then be able to rise as the great nation they wanted once again.

that is what people still want today looking for a leader to take the people to what they think they deserve in life as worshipers of a god better than the rest. a nation with more powerful than the rest of those who do not know God.

do you not get that THEY WERE WRONG !!! and if your looking for the same ideals to happenin life your just as wrong as they who crucified the LORD were wrong???

that is not the plan as it worked out hahahahhaha

no man is going to lead you into anything , other than his or her will .

IT is DONE the will of God was accomplished by ONE MAN already finished YOU can not improve it or make it happen again or spin it or advertise it anymore.

that is why it is such good news.

pond,

There are some grains of truth in your ramblings. But you go way over the deep end sometimes, and your rantings

don't make any sense.

Sounds like an over reaction to something or other that you've been through....

Relax...sit back on my couch...take a deep breath....and let it all out...slowly...slowly though...you can get through this crap. I've been through the crapper and near the valley of death...Jesus and God are good...and they can help you through it...no I'm not trying to be condescending or funny...but as rich says, your boat is sinking and you need to grab onto a paddle, or fix the boat, or get out of the water, or buy a new boat...or else move away from the water....love you buddy !!

CS

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so what happens when a person doesnt obey you?

or doesnt agree with you?

oooo I know I know they get insulted and dismissed.

kind of a stale routine by now isnt it?

try answering a question first o not that must be dismissed because YOU refuse to deal with those lesser thans and so easily dismiss them.

where is all that famous forgivness you boasted about right now?

Edited by pond
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Actualy it is from the bible .

not pp. I do not do pp.

what does the bible say about all men?

does Jesus say he EVER trusted them? um nope.

see the problem is you cant just use the bible for when it works for your agenda. it is truth or it isnt.

stop twisting it.

God view is soemthing about the state of man and it aint good. in fact He says we are evil , and Jesus will never trust a man. LOVE oh yeah baby but never trust your insight or works or anything you say.

and once again for you guys it is all about people pleasing and who is who... your right I do not know anyone on this forum.. I just know what they write and that is what I address.

for you if you know them you can and will and do make excuses on just why they must be "special" better or more than the rest of mankind God speaks about.. yeah that is typical cult thinking and group crap once again.

cant live without can ya?

Edited by pond
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pond pond pond pond

Are we not trusted with His word

Are we not called saints

are we not called to be like him

Didn't he call 12 , not to be trusted? apostles

etc etc etc

are you still in the twi?

are you involved with a church?

OH yeh! arn't we trusted to call others or should i say speak the joy of the lord with others.

Edited by rich
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where is Jesus christ in your life.

Pond,

Thanks for your concern for my relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ.

He is my all in all,

and he is everything to me.

I hope that answers your question.

I love what he Loves and

that includes John Lynn, Mark Graeser, John Schoenheit

and a whole bunch of other good people

who happen to miss the mark at times.

does that bother you?

None of them has ever let me down,

Because I never expected them to hold me up.

I am not disenchanted with S&T Fellowship Int.,

because I was never enchanted with them.

I am not disillsioned,

because I was never under any illusions as to Who my Lord is.

and I am praying for your heart Pond.

That the Prince of Peace will come in ,

and destroy the enmity,

and engage you in genuine and holy fellowship.

Maybe then you will be willing to forgive me for me faults,

even as He has.

You are right.

I am a piece of work,

but I trust the Father is yet able to complete the work He has begun in me.

and in You too.

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i do not need to forgive you. nor do I seek your forgivness, it is an internet forum hello.

why is that important to you you seek others forgivness?

cant say i pray for to many forum users tho sorry.

I like people and the Lord myself. all and all and everything sounds like you do not have much room left over for relationships with folks you can see, feel and understand and youknow agrue with or something. Is it is easier to

love fantasy ?

ex what the heck is that exactly? is it a link? didnt work.

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H Caribou-

Speaking of sheep and shepherds, couple thoughts -

"...And to make sure that the sheep aren't falling into lazy patterns of disbelief and inaction."

Consider giving that idea another round of thought. That's not part of the primary duties of a pastor, or a "shepherd".

Of the qualities Paul encourages Timothy and Titus to look for in pastors, "character" is one of the biggies. Basically Paul instructs to look for good people - honest, reasonable, straightforward, caring and loving individuals who have proven themselves to be of good character both inside the church and out.

The responsibility for what you're describing falls to the pastors. If the shepherd gets lazy and doesn't follow what he knows to be true his flock will fall into disarray, prey to attacks and worse starve without pasture and become sick without protection from the elements.

That's not to say that an individual doesn't need to be watchful, diligent and moving progressively in the right direction. Every individual has that responsiblity, however in the church we have a community that benefits from and to degrees requires care, instruction and direction. This can be viewed from several different angles in the bible - a family first and foremost. A community of members like a body with a "head". A flock with a shepherd.

Those are three perspectives that are very familiar to bible fans and each has a structure of leadership, as it were. And each one is the same - God first, Christ His son over all, and each child within the family a unique and loved member.

A family with absent parents is like a body without a head, and like a flock without a shepherd. Each of those responsiblities is taken and accounted for in the church. The Father is with us, His son is given charge of the body of the church and the flock is brought home and fully accounted for by that same Son.

The primary responsibility of a shepherd is care - providing food, shelter, water and protection. It's pretty common to try and do that by drilling into people's heads and trying to "encourage" them to think and act right. That's probably going to help some people sometimes, but overall it's counter-productive for a "pastor" to get in the way of a person and their relationship of free will and love with their Father.

Jesus said His sheep would know His voice. It reminds me of when I was a kid - many years ago. Come dinner time the Dad's and Mom's in the neighborhood would call their kids home for dinner.

I knew my Mom's voice, my Dad's whistle. I never ended up at someone else's table. When the calls came, we all went running to the right place. Usually. :)

Edited by socks
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Hi! Bumpy is wondering what's happening these days at CES? Are they contributing at all on the forum, still writing their newsletters? Is anyone attending services or doing any grilling in the barbie...be careful not to overcook the mutton! Remember to be nice to each other on this forum.

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Hi Bumpy...

Your name describes the ride CES is currently on....

I know of at least one long letter of feedback the BOD has received from an ex-CESer. (More, please!)

They have begun to hear and see some things differently and to contact people they need to apologize to (including E).

Their current Tape of the Month and Sower were already in the works, but hopefully, if CES continues and if they continue to put out tapes and magazines, future ones will begin to show that a shift has begun and that eyes, ears and hearts are opening.

Whatever they do will not please everyone. Their apologies won't be fast enough; their changes complete enough; etc....

But for those of us who have prayed for these people for many years, this wake up call is a definitive answer to prayer and we continue to pray that like Job, though their beginning is small, yet their latter end shall be great--they will get and remain humble; repent, change, and be able to fulfill whatever calling God has on their lives to serve Him and His people; and love the believers and non-believers alike as Christ loves us and gave Himself for us.

Thank you to all who are praying with us.

Not only for the CES guys...but for all of the folks we've loved and lost to CultBrain.

God is faithful and He loves them more than we do.

I'm blessed to serve with you all.

Edited by therebutforgrace
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Their current Tape of the Month and Sower were already in the works, but hopefully, if CES continues and if they continue to put out tapes and magazines, future ones will begin to show that a shift has begun and that eyes, ears and hearts are opening.

I received both in the mail today. ;)

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