Snort, I am real enough, I cannot help that his perception of people or his biblical responsibility has apparently been scewed by years of investment in questionable religious practices...shrug.
He owes all of greasespot an apology. The ball is in his court.
Given his conspicous absence, I can only conclude that it must be he who is afraid. <_<
"... well, ya know ham, there is a difference between big T Truth and little t truth.. we otter agree on the Big T, the debil would just LOVE for us to disagree on count of the little t.."
"... well, it's not all that bad. you don't know the whole story; you don't work(?) day in and day out for the bestest ministry since Paul introduced sliced bread.."
".. surrrrrre, we've made a few 'mistakes'(??!!!!!)"
Have to remember people "like this" can charm the paint off the hood of your car..
No way. Not on my own..
I've learned from the "best" too.. by experience.
"Now that we got that little(?) problem taken care of, anything else I can do for you?"
Won't get me in that corner again..
Oldies, you call him.. you can even reminisce about old waydays gone by..
they tend to put spin on everything they write, anyways.
The only reason i check in here is because greasespot at least addresses the concerns.
look on the 3 websites these guys have do you see anything about the hoopla?
and it is serious stuff firing the president etc... but yet ignorance is bliss as far as they are concerned i feel they will never give out any information.
or the spin and shame involved in just asking about a "rumor" shuts most "meek and humble" people up.
shame on you for the asking about a "rumor".
then when you say but but it seems to have been true.... well who are you gonna believe the great leaders who know God and teach the truth.. or a web site full of gossip and back biting???
hmmm your choice shame on you for meddling in a personal business and life of them and bam they will get in your face with your life and how God must feel spin spin and more spin.
no intimacy most of the crowd who would dare question them are rank unbelieving believers anyways... and if you fall in line now hey YOU ONE OF US STILLL!!!
no fear is one thing as jal wears as a baner of his pride.
no real love or concern is right with that ideal when you can only address those who agree or can be intimidated to do so without answers to the pesky questions.
i have to agree with oldies here. (hence the saying, "there's a first time for everything!")
i have NO stake in CES/STFI/whatever they're calling it today. and i put NO stock in ANY of the ex-twi folks running ANY of these splinter groups. (i've said for years that i think every last one of 'em ought to pack it in and live in the real world for a while. like forever.) and i have no problem whatsoever with sticking it to anyone who thinks they have the best "package." but i'm taken aback by how nasty people have been about this.
skyrider, i understand what your friend might've experienced. but to be fair, i had the opposite experience. john told me about how great momentus was. i asked what it was about. he told me i'd have to take the class to find out. i told him i fell for that bs once with pfal and wasn't about to do it again. AND HE NEVER BROUGHT IT UP AGAIN. (this was a number of years ago, when he and i would meet for lunch once a year when he was in town.) in fact, i'd made it very clear to him that not only wasn't i interested in momentus, i wasn't interested in CES, or in christianity of any flavor. and he still called me every year, to have lunch and chat like humans about our families, mutual friends, etc.
he is a thickheaded, one-track-minded guy, absolutely. and he thinks what he's doing is right, and has no qualms about telling you so. but he's not the guy you're making him out to be.
skyrider, i understand what you're friend might've experienced. but to be fair, i had the opposite experience. ....
snip...
he is a thickheaded, one-track-minded guy, absolutely. and he thinks what he's doing is right, and has no qualms about telling you so. but he's not the guy you're making him out to be.
Sorry Sprawled out, I wasn`t really going for intentionally nasty, just trying to make a point using mild cynicism (I don`t do that very well I guess)
It would be hard for me to read these things about a buddy.
My point should have been that John could benefit from interaction with real people with great insight that could offer him more than just the folks who have been programed through the same teachings, books programs and various materials to tell him that which he wishes to hear....shrug.
Instead as I read his letter, we here are still *THOSE* people, you know the ones who don`t appreciate the value of the *package* because of our lack of spirituality or understanding or whatever.
It still seems to me to be a we/they thing in his mind.
My point should have been that John could benefit from interaction with real people with great insight that could offer him more than just the folks who have been programed through the same teachings, books programs and various materials to tell him that which he wishes to hear....shrug.
i agree, wholeheartedly. but you and i both know it ain't gonna happen.
Instead as I read his letter, we here are still *THOSE* people, you know the ones who don`t appreciate the value of the *package* because of our lack of spirituality or understanding or whatever.
It still seems to me to be a we/they thing in his mind.
and again, i agree. but i also understand that it HAS to be, for him. not that i agree with it in any way, but i see it as just the nature of the beast. if you thought your "package" was so R-I-G-H-T that you'd devote your whole life to it, every fiber of your being, then the flip side must be that you think everyone else has to be wrong. so your whole life is a "we/they" thing. no matter what "willing to dialogue" rap you give lip service to.
to be fair, there's nothing i see in the bible that would refute that position. moses, jesus, paul...there was a whole lot of "we/they" in them, too.
I was thinking that once JAL got a small light in his eye the first letter should have been to Eliz.
I was once asked to join in one the of the prophetic groups by KG and said no thank you.
I later, like a month. sat with MKG and told them that I didn't want to be involed with the prophetic ( I now call the pathetic prophoesys). The reason being all the duplication of what people were being told. Friends would play thier tapes and my radar started going off. They were so excited and I was hearing rewind. Examples: You are going down a river and it is comm but you will hit rough water. You have been called to do a mighty work.
Maybe some of you out thier could share what was told to you and see if the corilation fits for you.
I have to admit the ones I read from Eliz were totaly not rewind!
So they took in what I had to say and informed me that they were going to stop, hold off or some term to that effect.
This happened way before the Eliz stuff.
I also told them that we didn't feel like a part of , then CES, that there was that distance we kept seeing and feeling.
So we backed off and will remain eternaly backed off. We felt there was a lot of head knowledge and the Helen Keller in appication. We didn't see any.
Question - from all the supporting docs and letters, has anyone seen any follow up from John and Eliz - was there ever any resolution / conclusion / etc or is it 'just as it appears' from the Eliz letter?
Ever see vic in a debate? Or loy? I remember Loy giving a guy the "bums rush" before he got two whole sentences out of his mouth.
Try to get folks off on their own, put out the little fires everywhere around you.
Don't call him, all you get is a blanket message "read my book".
Not only "Never engage in public debate. Never debate the facts - debate the audience and keep giving out your message.
I am not so naive as to believe that a thread can be controlled - nor should it be. I was just suggesting some ways to approach this subject. I have no intention of calling JAL on the phone - one phone call from that man in one lifetime was quite enough, thank you.
Just remember that if you make an environment hostile - you can't really complain if a person doesn't want to visit.
Glad to have you join us. It does get a little rough here, now and then, but don't call me a prophet!! Intersting take you have...hearing many people being told the same things in pp. I didn't get any so I can't share mine, but maybe some other CESers reading this will join us and let us know.
I do have 1 question for you. Who was it that took in what I had to say and informed me that they were going to stop, hold off or some term to that effect.? Obviously they didn't do it, but I'm impressed you even seemed to get their ear!
I still think the nature of his letter, and the seriousness of the subject DEMAND public scrutiny and debate.
Considering the long standing problems, it is obvious that controlled private little discussions have done little if anything.
What's he afraid of? That somebody might hurt his feelings?
Afraid of being embarrassed?
Afraid of giving the Lord a black eye in public? Sorry, I think he's already done that with the LITTLE we know about.
Maybe he doesn't have the faith in his package that he thinks he has. Perhaps deep down he feels it wouldn't survive five minutes of public scrutiny and REAL debate.
Same for the some of the other yahoos running that place.
I think they are afraid to see their "baby" exposed to the light of day.
BTW - Mr Hammeroni - I agree with the public scrutiny. It needs to be done. That's why I called for addressing the salient points in the letter - even the lack of mentioning God's guidance should be discussed.
We are a group of intelligent folks here with some amazing insight - do we really want it lost in the mud?
why is this so difficult why is this so difficult?
I have little problem going to a church and finding issue and being critical, easy to be done. no need to understand why where and all of the emotions thishas dragged out.
but some how i have this desire to know what the heck is going on with stf.
it MUST be a hang over cult thing.
like i still owe them some type of allegience even if it isin my mind only.
what say you?
WHY do we obsess a tad to much over this particular outfit?
I'm on these 2 threads because this is the best place I know of to bring to light the evil that CES slowly, over time, brought into their midst and called good.
I'm hoping CES 'leaders' read what's on these 2 threads and all of you no-longer-cult-members can help show them what really is evil and what really is good so they can realign their thinking.
I'm hoping CES 'followers' read what's on these 2 threads, see what their organization has been doing behind closed doors, and decide if they want to stick with it or not.
Just remember that if you make an environment hostile - you can't really complain if a person doesn't want to visit.
Sure we can, Dooj, we're Greasespotters, that's what we do.
In any event, what were we supposed to do? Lay down like the sheep he seemed to think we were and say, "Like, OMG, ya know, if SOMEONE would just fix all the crap in TWI, I would be on that like flies on ......" Once one gets that taste in their mouth, it's unmistakable.
From what I've heard (hearsay, yes, but all I have to go on), Mr. Lynn (originallyvia TWI, now CES) has negatively impacted many peoples' lives here. Did he really think we were going to welcome him with open arms? I would venture to say, most of us aren't at that place in our lives, where we can forgive like the father of the prodigal son.
My point is, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. He learned well at the feet of a small time con artist.
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oldiesman
To someone who's made available his phone number, he's probably expecting telephone calls from real people.
You're probably nothing more to him than anonymous internet cyber characters until you pick up that phone.
Be real. Call him up.
You're not afraid are you?
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rascal
Snort, I am real enough, I cannot help that his perception of people or his biblical responsibility has apparently been scewed by years of investment in questionable religious practices...shrug.
He owes all of greasespot an apology. The ball is in his court.
Given his conspicous absence, I can only conclude that it must be he who is afraid. <_<
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Ham
Yep.. I've called yahoos like this before..
"... well, ya know ham, there is a difference between big T Truth and little t truth.. we otter agree on the Big T, the debil would just LOVE for us to disagree on count of the little t.."
"... well, it's not all that bad. you don't know the whole story; you don't work(?) day in and day out for the bestest ministry since Paul introduced sliced bread.."
".. surrrrrre, we've made a few 'mistakes'(??!!!!!)"
Have to remember people "like this" can charm the paint off the hood of your car..
No way. Not on my own..
I've learned from the "best" too.. by experience.
"Now that we got that little(?) problem taken care of, anything else I can do for you?"
Won't get me in that corner again..
Oldies, you call him.. you can even reminisce about old waydays gone by..
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rascal
.....oh and btw WE aren`t selling anything either. Feel free to enjoy the benefits of our collective wisdom free of charge.....courtesy of Pawtucket
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Ham
Calling JL would be like calling a telemarketer, asking about the quality of his/her products..
sheesh.
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pond
Im not afraid.
they tend to put spin on everything they write, anyways.
The only reason i check in here is because greasespot at least addresses the concerns.
look on the 3 websites these guys have do you see anything about the hoopla?
and it is serious stuff firing the president etc... but yet ignorance is bliss as far as they are concerned i feel they will never give out any information.
or the spin and shame involved in just asking about a "rumor" shuts most "meek and humble" people up.
shame on you for the asking about a "rumor".
then when you say but but it seems to have been true.... well who are you gonna believe the great leaders who know God and teach the truth.. or a web site full of gossip and back biting???
hmmm your choice shame on you for meddling in a personal business and life of them and bam they will get in your face with your life and how God must feel spin spin and more spin.
no intimacy most of the crowd who would dare question them are rank unbelieving believers anyways... and if you fall in line now hey YOU ONE OF US STILLL!!!
no fear is one thing as jal wears as a baner of his pride.
no real love or concern is right with that ideal when you can only address those who agree or can be intimidated to do so without answers to the pesky questions.
kudos to grease spot
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Ham
"Call me" ptooie.
Just something in me about not wanting to be subjected to every motivational technique known to the mind of man..
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sprawled out
i have to agree with oldies here. (hence the saying, "there's a first time for everything!")
i have NO stake in CES/STFI/whatever they're calling it today. and i put NO stock in ANY of the ex-twi folks running ANY of these splinter groups. (i've said for years that i think every last one of 'em ought to pack it in and live in the real world for a while. like forever.) and i have no problem whatsoever with sticking it to anyone who thinks they have the best "package." but i'm taken aback by how nasty people have been about this.
skyrider, i understand what your friend might've experienced. but to be fair, i had the opposite experience. john told me about how great momentus was. i asked what it was about. he told me i'd have to take the class to find out. i told him i fell for that bs once with pfal and wasn't about to do it again. AND HE NEVER BROUGHT IT UP AGAIN. (this was a number of years ago, when he and i would meet for lunch once a year when he was in town.) in fact, i'd made it very clear to him that not only wasn't i interested in momentus, i wasn't interested in CES, or in christianity of any flavor. and he still called me every year, to have lunch and chat like humans about our families, mutual friends, etc.
he is a thickheaded, one-track-minded guy, absolutely. and he thinks what he's doing is right, and has no qualms about telling you so. but he's not the guy you're making him out to be.
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skyrider
different situation, different experience.....
*shrug*
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rascal
Sorry Sprawled out, I wasn`t really going for intentionally nasty, just trying to make a point using mild cynicism (I don`t do that very well I guess)
It would be hard for me to read these things about a buddy.
My point should have been that John could benefit from interaction with real people with great insight that could offer him more than just the folks who have been programed through the same teachings, books programs and various materials to tell him that which he wishes to hear....shrug.
Instead as I read his letter, we here are still *THOSE* people, you know the ones who don`t appreciate the value of the *package* because of our lack of spirituality or understanding or whatever.
It still seems to me to be a we/they thing in his mind.
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sprawled out
i agree, wholeheartedly. but you and i both know it ain't gonna happen.
and again, i agree. but i also understand that it HAS to be, for him. not that i agree with it in any way, but i see it as just the nature of the beast. if you thought your "package" was so R-I-G-H-T that you'd devote your whole life to it, every fiber of your being, then the flip side must be that you think everyone else has to be wrong. so your whole life is a "we/they" thing. no matter what "willing to dialogue" rap you give lip service to.
to be fair, there's nothing i see in the bible that would refute that position. moses, jesus, paul...there was a whole lot of "we/they" in them, too.
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rich
I was once asked to join in one the of the prophetic groups by KG and said no thank you.
I later, like a month. sat with MKG and told them that I didn't want to be involed with the prophetic ( I now call the pathetic prophoesys). The reason being all the duplication of what people were being told. Friends would play thier tapes and my radar started going off. They were so excited and I was hearing rewind. Examples: You are going down a river and it is comm but you will hit rough water. You have been called to do a mighty work.
Maybe some of you out thier could share what was told to you and see if the corilation fits for you.
I have to admit the ones I read from Eliz were totaly not rewind!
So they took in what I had to say and informed me that they were going to stop, hold off or some term to that effect.
This happened way before the Eliz stuff.
I also told them that we didn't feel like a part of , then CES, that there was that distance we kept seeing and feeling.
So we backed off and will remain eternaly backed off. We felt there was a lot of head knowledge and the Helen Keller in appication. We didn't see any.
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1broken1
Question - from all the supporting docs and letters, has anyone seen any follow up from John and Eliz - was there ever any resolution / conclusion / etc or is it 'just as it appears' from the Eliz letter?
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doojable
Not only "Never engage in public debate. Never debate the facts - debate the audience and keep giving out your message.
I am not so naive as to believe that a thread can be controlled - nor should it be. I was just suggesting some ways to approach this subject. I have no intention of calling JAL on the phone - one phone call from that man in one lifetime was quite enough, thank you.
Just remember that if you make an environment hostile - you can't really complain if a person doesn't want to visit.
Maybe I should just go back to my corner.....
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therebutforgrace
Welcome, rich, to GSC!
Glad to have you join us. It does get a little rough here, now and then, but don't call me a prophet!! Intersting take you have...hearing many people being told the same things in pp. I didn't get any so I can't share mine, but maybe some other CESers reading this will join us and let us know.
I do have 1 question for you. Who was it that took in what I had to say and informed me that they were going to stop, hold off or some term to that effect.? Obviously they didn't do it, but I'm impressed you even seemed to get their ear!
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Priscilla
Hey Oldies, just a question...
have you called JAL?
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doojable
BTW - Mr Hammeroni - I agree with the public scrutiny. It needs to be done. That's why I called for addressing the salient points in the letter - even the lack of mentioning God's guidance should be discussed.
We are a group of intelligent folks here with some amazing insight - do we really want it lost in the mud?
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rich
therebutforgrace Talking about mkg and it took much to set up meeting. but it was that important to me.
1broken1 just as appears. if there was recon the letter wouldn't be here.
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Ham
I think the thread was as friendly as it was gonna get the first two pages.. he had his chance.
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waterbuffalo
ROFLMA, Hamm!!!!!!!
(I'm sorry, JL, I'm not making fun of you, but you do give everybody the canned mantra about whatever it is that you are currently into).
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watersedge
What i posted on the 28th follows:
" can someone (anyone) show me from the bible that personal prophecy
is in god's plan?
since when did a prophet or prophetess gain that ability?
if it's there please show me
i need (appended) to blow out my candles and do laundry
go shopping and gas up..........please tell me
wow a pocket prophet for each soul
what a concept, tell me and i will do it
sounds almost like "tom-tom"
a spiritual navigation system
totally commited to each soul's "benefit"
do they sell for $$$ or sense? "
is there any change or will there be?
Van halen has a chance to "hook up"
long before CES
sorry for the caps
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pond
Im just discussing here i have no answers.
lots of questions.
why is this so difficult why is this so difficult?
I have little problem going to a church and finding issue and being critical, easy to be done. no need to understand why where and all of the emotions thishas dragged out.
but some how i have this desire to know what the heck is going on with stf.
it MUST be a hang over cult thing.
like i still owe them some type of allegience even if it isin my mind only.
what say you?
WHY do we obsess a tad to much over this particular outfit?
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therebutforgrace
Hi pond,
I'm on these 2 threads because this is the best place I know of to bring to light the evil that CES slowly, over time, brought into their midst and called good.
I'm hoping CES 'leaders' read what's on these 2 threads and all of you no-longer-cult-members can help show them what really is evil and what really is good so they can realign their thinking.
I'm hoping CES 'followers' read what's on these 2 threads, see what their organization has been doing behind closed doors, and decide if they want to stick with it or not.
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Sushi
Sure we can, Dooj, we're Greasespotters, that's what we do.
In any event, what were we supposed to do? Lay down like the sheep he seemed to think we were and say, "Like, OMG, ya know, if SOMEONE would just fix all the crap in TWI, I would be on that like flies on ......" Once one gets that taste in their mouth, it's unmistakable.
From what I've heard (hearsay, yes, but all I have to go on), Mr. Lynn (originallyvia TWI, now CES) has negatively impacted many peoples' lives here. Did he really think we were going to welcome him with open arms? I would venture to say, most of us aren't at that place in our lives, where we can forgive like the father of the prodigal son.
My point is, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. He learned well at the feet of a small time con artist.
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