I was thinking of something else about the pp stuff. see if this makes sense.
I call you and say I have a problem could you see what the Lord says about it and I didn't say anything to you about what the peoblem was.
You call back with an answer. Is that rvelation or p.
Another, how I think ces works it. I have a problem with xyz. I tell you all about it and tell you my dreams and what God has said. I feed you all the details and then ask you to see what the Lord has to say about it. You get back with your take.
Here's what doesn't make sense to me.... why on earth ask anyone other than GOD, Himself, what HE has to say about something? Is it GOD that works within you to will and do of HIS good pleasure, or some folks who CLAIM to speak for God?
If we have a direct line to GOD then why go around Him?
Furthermore, if someone comes to me and tells me they have a message for me from God, unless I already know God's been trying to tell me something, I'm gonna know that person is full of it. God's not gonna use a courier or messenger service when he knows darn well He can talk directly to me. What goes on in my life is nobody's business but mine. I'd like to think God respects that.
If you are planning to split off and take people with you, I am of the opinion that you do not have the support in the STF community you think you have. Time will tell whether or not John, Dan, the Theisens, and I have earned the love, respect, and trust of our precious constituents more so than have you and the Resners.
And that is the essence of this letter. It is why JAL's situation with E. is never mentioned. The letter is not about her. It is about who will have the most followers after the G's are thrown out. It is about who can appear more godly in the face of tossing them out.
Talking about E. would just interfere with that image, wouldn't it? Sure, it would.
IMHO,
Shaz
Good point, Shaz. Let's pick sides... Let's brag about which MAN we're going to follow... Sounds like the exact opposite of what Paul taught and expected....
1Cr 1:12 - 13
Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1Cr 3:3 - following
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I [am] of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
WB, too simple, too much common sense and way too Biblical.
These folks are so far from the truth they claim to believe and live that it's comical.... comical in a sad, pathetic, pitiful kind of way. :(
Rich, you wrote....I call you and say I have a problem could you see what the Lord says about it
Um-m...no one has ever done that...no one I study with or learn from talks like that...so I'd probably ask what you mean.
If you just happened to use those words and really meant, can you help me see how to walk with God through this problem? I would remind you to trust in Him with all your heart and not to lean to your own understanding, I'd ask what He'd already spoken to your heart and what you'd already seen in His Word.
We have all had people call and ask for help. We've all had a first thought to reply and had the folks say WOW THANKS! and hang up blessed....without ever saying what the problem was, so sure, I'd call that revelation, but ....
If I knew you'd been influenced by KA and the CES PAC, I'd probably say Run, Forrest, Run!
If you are planning to split off and take people with you, I am of the opinion that you do not have the support in the STF community you think you have. Time will tell whether or not John, Dan, the Theisens, and I have earned the love, respect, and trust of our precious constituents more so than have you and the Resners. But I am beseeching you, please do not force God’s precious people, including your own dear children, to make such a choice. God will stand with those of us who stand for truth and honesty, and He will bring us through all of this because He is invested in His Word and in those of us who stand for it. PLEASE choose to be among us. I love you more than you know.
Is it just me or does this sound like it's all just a big game of marbles to them? Who gets to leave with the most marbles (constituents)?
HEY! CES/STFI BOARD AND JAL: COME OUT INTO THE LIGHT AND FACE YOUR CONSTITUENTS!!! YOU DON'T HAVE TO COME OUT HERE AT GSC, COME OUT ANYWHERE! QUIT HUDDLING IN YOUR DARK CORNERS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH EVERYONE REALLY KNOWS AND FACE THE MUSIC! COME OUT ON YOUR WEBSITE! COME OUT IN A PUBLIC MEETING WHERE ALL CONSTITUENTS HAVE BEEN OPENLY AND FREELY INVITED! COME OUT WITH A FREE EXCHANGE, AN OPEN DISCOURSE WITH YOUR CONSTITUENTS!!!
QUIT WORRYING ABOUT DAMAGE CONTROL AND START BEING HONEST WITH YOURSELVES, YOUR CONSTITUENTS AND GOD.
ANYTHING LESS IS UNACCEPTABLE... YOUR 'REIGN' IS OVER... NO MORE SECRECY.
After all... IF what you are and have been doing is really of God... you don't have anything to worry about do you?
Rich, you wrote....I call you and say I have a problem could you see what the Lord says about it
Um-m...no one has ever done that...no one I study with or learn from talks like that...so I'd probably ask what you mean.
****
Poor job of communication I guess. I was bring sarcastic. I was trying to show that what they are doing with the pp doesn't make logical or biblical sense.
They were questions that to me showed how they are influanced by pre discusions, neither of the examples are right.
They are influanced by the judgements and accusations and offences that were spoken by the requester.
Who would call and ask a silly question with no info and wouldn't the response be to councel acording to what the word says. That is what Gets me on all this pp stuff. The word is written for doctrine, reproof and correction. Should we need personal pp to deal with stuff like they are saying, when the Word is clear on what it takes to address issues and start to make changes in ones life to line up with you know who!
****
If you just happened to use those words and really meant, can you help me see how to walk with God through this problem? I would remind you to trust in Him with all your heart and not to lean to your own understanding, I'd ask what He'd already spoken to your heart and what you'd already seen in His Word.
We have all had people call and ask for help. We've all had a first thought to reply and had the folks say WOW THANKS! and hang up blessed....without ever saying what the problem was, so sure, I'd call that revelation, but ....
**** exactly the point. There are times when people call and you can sense somethings up and be the goto person to help them.
If I knew you'd been influenced by KA and the CES PAC, I'd probably say Run, Forrest, Run!
Here's what doesn't make sense to me.... why on earth ask anyone other than GOD, Himself, what HE has to say about something? Is it GOD that works within you to will and do of HIS good pleasure, or some folks who CLAIM to speak for God?
If we have a direct line to GOD then why go around Him?
The sad truth is that most folks don't really trust their ability to really hear God, so they go and talk to as many people as possible to get that little tid bit of truth that they are hungering for. Or - worst yet - they have heard VERY CLEARLY from God, but they are looking for that one person that will tell them what they really want to hear.
Then there's always the good excuse for gossip (NOT)
"Let's discuss how to help this person.." That one used to get me. Two people would be talking and pretending to discuss how to help another person, while in reality they were just trying to show how "spiritually perceptive" they were.
It makes for a pretty good conversation over coffee, but not much more.
Mom used to say. "Why are you telling me this? I can't do anything about it. Go talk to that person!"
Dooj speaks on being spiritual perceptive people may feel when talking abut another.
I guess i may be a bit more cynical and although it may be the case in some circumstances, I think without claiming to know anyones motives sometimes people want to "be like god" and one up the other.
like I must be ok, listen to how messed up this person is... and to throw in God told me so is just just horrid.
it takes the focus off your own insecurities and inability to deal with what life may be bringing your own self at the time.
in a sense it comforts people to know someone eles has problems. kind of like when children yet but billy did this...
it is common in addicts and codependents who can NOT overcome the overwhelming urge to fall into a destructive pattern and need an excuse why it isnt their own choice or doing.
"christians" are often taught to "serve" but where is the line between serving and hurting I feel it often gets blurred and allows codepency to flourish and burn out to become the mainstay.
when one does for another esp when it has the motive of "fixing them" they do not love in fact the love stops all together. it becomes an agenda .
I actualy lost a job I quit a job when a manager would call certain employees into the office or corner and say " so and so said he/she feels this way about you"
to generate a conversation of defense,then she would go to the other person and say so and so said this about you.
it made for so much hurt feeling.. finaly i said to her one day as she claimed to have this inside knowledge she had to confront i said well i will just go ask him , she slapped me.
yep she did . i couldnt believe it that type of emotion was not from the very simple expalination of what was her game at the job.
she was so angry at her own life at the death of her mom ather marriage, kids, whatever to keep all this talk going was her only relief and comfort.
when threatend to have it all stop,the attention on her, the focus of others and their life , she lost her mind and attacked.
ithink it is common, anyways.. I also try to deal with the individual, and I have lost relationships from others who think Im the one back stabbing their confidence.
it is about to the quality of relationships I want in my life now and im certain anyone who is talking crap and starts it with God told me or dont say anything but.. i say no stop im not willing to hold confidence from a third person about someone i care about. so sometimes they do stop talking to me. and that is ok with me.
COME OUT ON YOUR WEBSITE! COME OUT IN A PUBLIC MEETING WHERE ALL CONSTITUENTS HAVE BEEN OPENLY AND FREELY INVITED! COME OUT WITH A FREE EXCHANGE, AN OPEN DISCOURSE WITH YOUR CONSTITUENTS!!!
You're not actually suggesting anyone there is gay now, are you, Mr. Strange?
it just hit me that this is the excuse some may use to not interact with grease spot and questions presented here.
WEll
I have looked and i have one thing to say about that "perception" WHERE DO THEY WRITE ABOUT THIS STUFF ON THEIR WEBSITE?
see what i mean? I mean i get they can twist this and say well being we use secret names on the internet we are not bible doing THEN how is just pretending and hoping it goes no further as long as we only metion it to those we must HONEST? or forth coming of truth in any way?
Dooj speaks on being spiritual perceptive people may feel when talking abut another.
I guess i may be a bit more cynical and although it may be the case in some circumstances, I think without claiming to know anyones motives sometimes people want to "be like god" and one up the other.
like I must be ok, listen to how messed up this person is... and to throw in God told me so is just just horrid.
it is common in addicts and codependents who can NOT overcome the overwhelming urge to fall into a destructive pattern and need an excuse why it isnt their own choice or doing.
"christians" are often taught to "serve" but where is the line between serving and hurting I feel it often gets blurred and allows codepency to flourish and burn out to become the mainstay.
when one does for another esp when it has the motive of "fixing them" they do not love in fact the love stops all together. it becomes an agenda .
GREAT PERCEPTION, POND, IMHO. IT'S AN AGENDA, EXACTLY, TO TRY TO FIX PEOPLE AND FEEL A LITTLE GOD-LIKE. WE'RE NOT TRAINED TO COUNSEL PEOPLE. YEAH, LOTS OF CO DEPENDENT RELATIONSHIPS DEVELOPED.
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Belle
Here's what doesn't make sense to me.... why on earth ask anyone other than GOD, Himself, what HE has to say about something? Is it GOD that works within you to will and do of HIS good pleasure, or some folks who CLAIM to speak for God?
If we have a direct line to GOD then why go around Him?
Furthermore, if someone comes to me and tells me they have a message for me from God, unless I already know God's been trying to tell me something, I'm gonna know that person is full of it. God's not gonna use a courier or messenger service when he knows darn well He can talk directly to me. What goes on in my life is nobody's business but mine. I'd like to think God respects that.
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waterbuffalo
Right, Belle, or how about if you have a problem with your brother/sister work it out with them???
But, maybe that would be too biblical....
Am I way off here????
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Belle
Good point, Shaz. Let's pick sides... Let's brag about which MAN we're going to follow...
Sounds like the exact opposite of what Paul taught and expected....
1Cr 1:12 - 13
Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1Cr 3:3 - following
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I [am] of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
WB, too simple, too much common sense and way too Biblical.
These folks are so far from the truth they claim to believe and live that it's comical.... comical in a sad, pathetic, pitiful kind of way. :(
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therebutforgrace
Good points, Belle and WB...
Rich, you wrote....I call you and say I have a problem could you see what the Lord says about it
Um-m...no one has ever done that...no one I study with or learn from talks like that...so I'd probably ask what you mean.
If you just happened to use those words and really meant, can you help me see how to walk with God through this problem? I would remind you to trust in Him with all your heart and not to lean to your own understanding, I'd ask what He'd already spoken to your heart and what you'd already seen in His Word.
We have all had people call and ask for help. We've all had a first thought to reply and had the folks say WOW THANKS! and hang up blessed....without ever saying what the problem was, so sure, I'd call that revelation, but ....
If I knew you'd been influenced by KA and the CES PAC, I'd probably say Run, Forrest, Run!
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Tom Strange
Is it just me or does this sound like it's all just a big game of marbles to them? Who gets to leave with the most marbles (constituents)?
HEY! CES/STFI BOARD AND JAL: COME OUT INTO THE LIGHT AND FACE YOUR CONSTITUENTS!!! YOU DON'T HAVE TO COME OUT HERE AT GSC, COME OUT ANYWHERE! QUIT HUDDLING IN YOUR DARK CORNERS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH EVERYONE REALLY KNOWS AND FACE THE MUSIC! COME OUT ON YOUR WEBSITE! COME OUT IN A PUBLIC MEETING WHERE ALL CONSTITUENTS HAVE BEEN OPENLY AND FREELY INVITED! COME OUT WITH A FREE EXCHANGE, AN OPEN DISCOURSE WITH YOUR CONSTITUENTS!!!
QUIT WORRYING ABOUT DAMAGE CONTROL AND START BEING HONEST WITH YOURSELVES, YOUR CONSTITUENTS AND GOD.
ANYTHING LESS IS UNACCEPTABLE... YOUR 'REIGN' IS OVER... NO MORE SECRECY.
After all... IF what you are and have been doing is really of God... you don't have anything to worry about do you?
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rich
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doojable
The sad truth is that most folks don't really trust their ability to really hear God, so they go and talk to as many people as possible to get that little tid bit of truth that they are hungering for. Or - worst yet - they have heard VERY CLEARLY from God, but they are looking for that one person that will tell them what they really want to hear.
Then there's always the good excuse for gossip (NOT)
"Let's discuss how to help this person.." That one used to get me. Two people would be talking and pretending to discuss how to help another person, while in reality they were just trying to show how "spiritually perceptive" they were.
It makes for a pretty good conversation over coffee, but not much more.
Mom used to say. "Why are you telling me this? I can't do anything about it. Go talk to that person!"
I'm trying to be like that more and more....
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pond
Dooj speaks on being spiritual perceptive people may feel when talking abut another.
I guess i may be a bit more cynical and although it may be the case in some circumstances, I think without claiming to know anyones motives sometimes people want to "be like god" and one up the other.
like I must be ok, listen to how messed up this person is... and to throw in God told me so is just just horrid.
it takes the focus off your own insecurities and inability to deal with what life may be bringing your own self at the time.
in a sense it comforts people to know someone eles has problems. kind of like when children yet but billy did this...
it is common in addicts and codependents who can NOT overcome the overwhelming urge to fall into a destructive pattern and need an excuse why it isnt their own choice or doing.
"christians" are often taught to "serve" but where is the line between serving and hurting I feel it often gets blurred and allows codepency to flourish and burn out to become the mainstay.
when one does for another esp when it has the motive of "fixing them" they do not love in fact the love stops all together. it becomes an agenda .
I actualy lost a job I quit a job when a manager would call certain employees into the office or corner and say " so and so said he/she feels this way about you"
to generate a conversation of defense,then she would go to the other person and say so and so said this about you.
it made for so much hurt feeling.. finaly i said to her one day as she claimed to have this inside knowledge she had to confront i said well i will just go ask him , she slapped me.
yep she did . i couldnt believe it that type of emotion was not from the very simple expalination of what was her game at the job.
she was so angry at her own life at the death of her mom ather marriage, kids, whatever to keep all this talk going was her only relief and comfort.
when threatend to have it all stop,the attention on her, the focus of others and their life , she lost her mind and attacked.
ithink it is common, anyways.. I also try to deal with the individual, and I have lost relationships from others who think Im the one back stabbing their confidence.
it is about to the quality of relationships I want in my life now and im certain anyone who is talking crap and starts it with God told me or dont say anything but.. i say no stop im not willing to hold confidence from a third person about someone i care about. so sometimes they do stop talking to me. and that is ok with me.
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Sushi
You're not actually suggesting anyone there is gay now, are you, Mr. Strange?
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pond
it just hit me that this is the excuse some may use to not interact with grease spot and questions presented here.
WEll
I have looked and i have one thing to say about that "perception" WHERE DO THEY WRITE ABOUT THIS STUFF ON THEIR WEBSITE?
see what i mean? I mean i get they can twist this and say well being we use secret names on the internet we are not bible doing THEN how is just pretending and hoping it goes no further as long as we only metion it to those we must HONEST? or forth coming of truth in any way?
get it?
am I the only one?
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Tom Strange
Now Verbal... you know that's not what I meant...
I'm just 'calling them out' ya know... like the old west, come out to the middle of main street and get it out in the open...
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doojable
As I recall.....the girls in my High School used to do that too -
"I call you OUT! Meet me behind the gym after school so I can kick your..."
Asprin anyone?
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Belle
I called someone OUT from the cafe once.... but it wasn't to fight.
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doojable
Belle! Now whaaatevah do ya mean? Blink blink flutter flutter
(Try to hear my very best Scarlett O Hara voice there)
I'll think about it tamarro')
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Tom Strange
I don't really know what any of you are talking about... I just think it's time for them to quit hiding and face the music...
Like I said above:
QUIT WORRYING ABOUT DAMAGE CONTROL AND START BEING HONEST WITH YOURSELVES, YOUR CONSTITUENTS AND GOD.
ANYTHING LESS IS UNACCEPTABLE... YOUR 'REIGN' IS OVER... NO MORE SECRECY.
After all... IF what you are and have been doing is really of God... you don't have anything to worry about do you?
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sprawled out
to shop? dance? what?
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doojable
Sorry Tom, I was being silly while you're trying to make a point.
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Sushi
Of course I did, Mr. Strange. Hence, the
.
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waterbuffalo
EEE Yah, Belle, awah wa hawah
Dooj, how cute
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waterbuffalo
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doojable
heh heh heh heh
He said, "hence"
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Sushi
One might say what's happening at CES now is, 'heinous'.
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doojable
Does that have anything to do with ...... "hinies"?
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Sushi
Yeah, that's when you shove grain products up someone's..........
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