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So what's the status at CESTFI?


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Whoa...hold on there sprawled! Assumption alert! And you know what they say about assumptions....

one man's assumptions is another's observation.

Honestly, who are you to assume that I believe I'm "thinking 'spiritually' and [am] therefore right???" Have I ever said as much on this board, or do you just lump me in that category because VPW or CM or JAL or MG, etc, etc, etc have spouted such nonsense? Sorry, but that's not my bag.

who am I? just someone who calls 'em as he sees 'em. honestly, i wasn't so much referring to you. but since you've responded...

Nope, instead I spoke against a blanket generalization (or so it was written, though Hamm has since defined the true target of his comment) with information that I PERSONALLY KNOW to be true. How many DIRECT and PERSONAL experiences of this specific situation do you have, particularly with the people who just went back to work for CES/STF? Let me know.

i have direct and personal experience with what's been written here. that's what i was commenting on. as for my experience with CES, i was around at the beginning. and saw enough to know, even then, which way the wind was blowing.

In fact, all of my posts here at GSC have been to respond to blanket generalizations/accusations which I know (from personal experience) to be false. Have I made any claim that CES/STF is God's chosen ministry, that it's perfect, that it's "leaders" are infallible Men/Women of God and should therefore be followed like the pied piper??? Nope! If you must know, I definitely feel like the proverbial scales have been lifted from my eyes since this topic opened up, and I'm willing hold to account anyone (including myself) who needs to be. Like many of you, I am praying that God's light will shine on and expose EVERY bit of evil, and I'm waiting to see what will come of all of this.

good for you! but unlike you, all i'm hoping for is for it to go away.

And finally, my ONLY "religious allegiance" is to God and Jesus Christ. Period. I swear allegiance to no man or ministry.

finally is right! keep 'em flyin'! :D

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"so.. if I don't accept the message of J.L.'s apostleship, and look at the man behind the curtain, I'm a gonner?"

HI Ham,

I think you missed my point.

( and I am not "one of their prophets" )

(( I am not a prophet nro attempting to prophecy here,

this is simply my considered opinion ))

The point is that we all have a choice:

We can

" Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamour and slander

be put away from you,

along with all malice "

Eph 6:31

or not.

It may sound funny to you,

but your choice will either energize the holy spirit in you

or not

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Perhaps you misread me as well. No, I'm not bitter, or hatefull. But I'm not gullible either, at least anymore. I'll admit "no public dialog, buy my book" tends to ruffle my feathers a little bit.

On his word, STFI is supposed to have the best "package" in the world..

I've heard that before.

In TWI, people stayed at first, becuase the supposed 80% good of the package kept them, they could justify a couple unpleasant sessions with the then moggy..

Then it got worse. They stayed for what they perceived the 60 percent good..

Then they stayed because if they were good enough, they'd get back to the "purity" of the package.

At the worst of times, loy would scream that they had the best anybody had to offer..

So here, we don't have outward anger, we have arrogance. "and to the rest of you, the critics of STFI, come to our package, tap into the root.. see the truth of our claim that we're the best, nothing's worth public scrutiny, end of 'discussion'"

Arrogance, to the end.

The Lord says he hates arrogance..

I can be arrogant at times, but it wears off- eventually I learn that I don't have all the answers. When are these guys gonna?

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Perhaps you misread me as well. No, I'm not bitter, or hatefull. But I'm not gullible either, at least anymore. I'll admit "no public dialog, buy my book" tends to ruffle my feathers a little bit.

On his word, STFI is supposed to have the best "package" in the world..

I've heard that before.

...

Arrogance, to the end.

The Lord says he hates arrogance..

I can be arrogant at times, but it wears off- eventually I learn that I don't have all the answers. When are these guys gonna?

Well Ham,

you're not the first person I ever mis-read.

a local teacher I like says

' it's impossible to be arrogant without being ignorant.

You can be ignorant without being arrogant,

but you can not be arrogant without being ignorant"

I have to believe these guys are learning some hard lessons.

I know I am

Peace

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  • 9 months later...

Actually, I think the last paragraph of post #17 is very good - and all that would be required at this time.

Hey, I just perused another site for a "fallen minister." What if CES posted something like this (which I copied from the site):

"In {date}, we were made aware that **** had become an alcoholic. In {date}, we became aware that (((( is a practicing homosexual. When confronted with the evidence of these sinful practices, (((( admitted to them and agreed to a process of restoration which the ### of us would oversee. However, because (((( has continued to drink and pursue immoral practices, and after having exhausted the first two steps of the Matthew 18:15-17 process, we now have a responsibility to bring this before the church.

We also want to apologize to the body of Christ for our part in promoting and elevating ((((’s stature in the church while having these significant strongholds in his/her life. The signs that these problems existed were abundant, and we had an obvious lack of discernment and failed to see them until this year. We have received a considerable education through this situation, the principles of which we will share in due time with the hope that others will not have to make our same mistakes."

That's pretty gutsy, I'd say! And very humble and honest. -- HS

Honesty and humility.

*edited to add link*

Edited by doojable
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Actually, I think the last paragraph of post #17 is very good - and all that would be required at this time.

Honesty and humility.

Dooj, you bring new meaning to the phrase "back-seat driver". ;)

Actually, there's no actually about it. We all choose to drive our car in our own direction. If I want to go north, while you want to go south there's very little chance that we'll have a head-on collision (unless for some reason you decide you want to do a U-turn -- then we might have a problem).

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Have a Happy Thanksgiving - no bumping heads.

... hey, be careful there! And by the way, is “status” a word which relates to spiders and upward mobility, as in a splinter cult movement? And do turkeys and cult leaders have anything in common when giving thanks? And did they eat turkeys in the good ‘ol days of the way corps? And...ok, I’ll shut up! (Maybe Mr. Gear will come over here, and we can have roasted squirrel and nuts!) :dance:

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What did you think of post #17? It looks pretty much like what has been requested for months...

I have to respectfully disagree with you. First of all, although I agree that it was "gutsy" for them to choose to make that disclosure the key point is they chose to do so. They weren't being badgered to make a statement. Secondly, they made that disclosure to the church. I assume that means the members of their particular church. See below what I've highlighted in red.

Hey, I just perused another site for a "fallen minister." What if CES posted something like this (which I copied from the site):

"In {date}, we were made aware that **** had become an alcoholic. In {date}, we became aware that (((( is a practicing homosexual. When confronted with the evidence of these sinful practices, (((( admitted to them and agreed to a process of restoration which the ### of us would oversee. However, because (((( has continued to drink and pursue immoral practices, and after having exhausted the first two steps of the Matthew 18:15-17 process, we now have a responsibility to bring this before the church.

We also want to apologize to the body of Christ for our part in promoting and elevating ((((’s stature in the church while having these significant strongholds in his/her life. The signs that these problems existed were abundant, and we had an obvious lack of discernment and failed to see them until this year. We have received a considerable education through this situation, the principles of which we will share in due time with the hope that others will not have to make our same mistakes."

That's pretty gutsy, I'd say! And very humble and honest. -- HS

Greasespot (by it's own admission) is not a religious board, let alone a church.

Finally, and perhaps more importantly, is the fact that Holy Smoke seems conflicted on the matter. She clearly states: "It's like my divorce.... If my husband and I had not told our relatives all our dirt, we'd probably still be together." When you get right down to it, it's nobodies business what goes on behind closed doors. Only members within that household -- The husband, wife and children have a right to know what's going on. Not their (husband and wife's) father or mother; not their Grandpas or Grandmas; not their Uncles or Aunts; not their Nephews or Nieces or cousins; not even their friends and most definitely not strangers. Only if they choose to make it their business of their own freewill is it so. None of those family members have a right to demand to be told what's going on. And if any of them were to badger them I would tell them to go away. Now if they invited them to call or write to them and they would discuss their personal matters that would be different.

What if one of your family members demanded that you go to a public park (with a megaphone) and declare all your problems so anyone could hear? Would you say: Ok.

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I was born at 10:20 pm . . . . . . on May 8th, 1955.

:offtopic:

Larry, Happy Thanksgiving! Now that I know how old you are, can you tell me if you are married with kids and a job? Because if you’re unemployed and have no serious commitments, I might be able offer you a position on one of my African construction sites! :B)

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:offtopic:

Larry, Happy Thanksgiving! Now that I know how old you are, can you tell me if you are married with kids and a job? Because if you’re unemployed and have no serious commitments, I might be able offer you a position on one of my African construction sites! :B)

:biglaugh:

Happy Thanksgiving back at ya Bumby (btw -- why did you choose to use the ID Bumpy?).

I've been married to the same wonderful woman for . . . . hmm she'll kick me if I get this wrong . . . . 32 years. I have three wonderful children and six awesome grandchildren (with one more on the way -- due in July). I've worked at the same place for 21 years. Thanks for the offer -- how much will you pay me? ;)

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It’s not the pay, but the “blessing” you will receive as a reward.

Tell that one to my wife (just make sure you're wearing a helmet when you do). ;)

I figure from your postings, you might be able to ‘convert’ some of my Islamic boys on the old work crew.

Well, if I can't do that -- can I fire them? :)

Bumpy, you didn't answer my question. What's up with that!

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