My post was not a judgement but a general statement...
Only you know how bad it was. I had a wife beater once upon a time. I should have pressed charges against him and today I would. But I would not press charges if at the end of the day we both had to go back to the same home. He would have to be removed or it wouldn't be safe.
I have a dear woman friend whose husband only got off when he saw blood -- he was a vile creature. He'd have to beat or punch her to get excited. At the time, when she went for help there was nothing out there... She was frightened of him but there was no where to go. In that case, today with the options, I would beg her to call the police and help hide her in a shelter or something...
Another friend had nothing but a drunk for a husband. He was cruel as they can be. But when drunk he always wanted "loving" and would demand it (force her when she would say no, please....) Of course it was awful, the stench, the selfishness, the time consumption... Being in the same house she was more frightned to say "no" then just just grin and bear it.
It is such a line and each relationship has different dynamics. I would have shot him with a pepper gun and left the house - I think. But then, there is always consequences with men/people like that.
Maybe in your case you could press charges and be safe. Then, man go for it. I do not believe anyone should force sex on anyone else. It is MINE and I should not be forced to give it a way. And those that think it is due...
There are some nice things the Bible talks about in marriage to ensure we are taken care of -- missing those things, well....
I do hope after all this talking that I have added to this thread that everyone knows I do not agree with a man or a woman forcing themselves on each other.
My post was not a judgement but a general statement...
I know, Dot... I've known a lot of women who kept their mouths shut for various reasons, many because there'd be hell to pay at home if the police got involved, and because they had no where else to go... others because it "wasn't that bad and I need to be there for the kids". some areas are better than others for helping women get out, and help for men in abusive relationships lags far behind. it makes me so mad that women have to stay and get hurt, and their kids have to watch them being abused.
people might think the woman who goes to a hotel room with a man for drinks is stupid, and maybe she is, but if the guy never gets in trouble because "she asked for it" he'll keep looking for the naive and gullible to take advantage of. if he goes to jail, it sends a clear message to the men who would do such things. the press doesn't hurt as far as keeping stupid girls from doing stupid things, too.
if men who hit, harrass, rape and otherwise abuse their wives go to jail and lose the right to see their children, maybe things will change a little bit, but I think something along the lines of the witness protection program might be needed. parental rights groups will block any move to provide this kind of protection because the system could be used to hurt an innocent parent and ruin a parental relationship... and it's true, but I don't see that letting women die is the better option.
My niece was a virgin. She did not want to engage in meaningless sex, but was looking to be loved – especially for her first time. One of the hottest 17-year-old-guys in school asked her out. …Went out with her several times. She was 15-years-old. And to be cool, she accepted a drink. He “had sex with her” then never called her again. She found out he had bet his friends he could “tap that.”
She asked me, “Was that rape? I feel raped. Maybe not jumped from a bush but set up by evil intent and violated.”
Was she raped? Not by violence – but the guy did take her power, IMO.
I know that is what you think, I believe you made that clear. (((Chatty))))
When I say those that think it is due, there are men who think to tell me that they have power over my body as it says so in the Bible --
Well, it also says to cherish your wife.
So, ysome husbands who are deplorable have no right to expect sex in my book, and to force it on anyone is not right
Absolutely! Men have personal responsibilities towards how they are to treat their wifes.
Regarding your niece.....I know the word rape generally refers to a violent act but by law there would never be a charge with that as the charge and for that reason (as has been stated here already) there should be a means of punishment for these young men and women that intentionally lure each into a situation to tag them so they can have bragging rights. To start with it's too bad that they weren't taught by their parent/parents enough self-respect not to engage in such vile things.
I know, Dot... I've known a lot of women who kept their mouths shut for various reasons, many because there'd be hell to pay at home if the police got involved, and because they had no where else to go... others because it "wasn't that bad and I need to be there for the kids". some areas are better than others for helping women get out, and help for men in abusive relationships lags far behind. it makes me so mad that women have to stay and get hurt, and their kids have to watch them being abused.
people might think the woman who goes to a hotel room with a man for drinks is stupid, and maybe she is, but if the guy never gets in trouble because "she asked for it" he'll keep looking for the naive and gullible to take advantage of. if he goes to jail, it sends a clear message to the men who would do such things. the press doesn't hurt as far as keeping stupid girls from doing stupid things, too.
if men who hit, harrass, rape and otherwise abuse their wives go to jail and lose the right to see their children, maybe things will change a little bit, but I think something along the lines of the witness protection program might be needed. parental rights groups will block any move to provide this kind of protection because the system could be used to hurt an innocent parent and ruin a parental relationship... and it's true, but I don't see that letting women die is the better option.
You have very good points there. And I would agree that the man in the hotel room being busted and sent to jail sends a clear message. And I appreciate that you included phrasing that indicated to me you could see it would be unwise on the woman to go into that room to start. Without question men that abuse women should be nailed and no one male or female deserves to be abused ever.
And I appreciate that you included phrasing that indicated to me you could see it would be unwise on the woman to go into that room to start.
ChattyKathy, I have never believed it was anything but unwise on the part of a girl or woman or young man or anyone to go into a hotel room with a stranger, but I took the position at the extreme because for whatever reason, it will happen over and over again. maybe someone thinks that because he's a public figure he wouldn't risk his reputation, or whatever, it really doesn't matter. people will be unwise, but it's not their fault if they get raped and the implication of fault is what keeps girls quiet when they've been victimized.
Please believe that I do not want to go around on this and I'm not repeating myself for that reason. But if a female goes into a man's hotel room for drinks she would have to be incredibly naive to not consider he wanted sex with her. And the likelihood of that is probably very small.
I know it's not 100% of the cases but some of the reported athlete's that were charged with rape included a woman that approached the athlete and in some way let him know she was interested in him. Again not all, but there are cases where it would almost appear the woman was setting them up, that is the extreme I realize but it has happened.
And in those cases it was still no less of a rape but the woman had some portion of the responsibility because of her intent from the start and I would hope in this day and time no woman would be so naive to think the male did not want sex since he invited her to his room equipped with a bed rather than downstairs in the lounge.
Look, I'm not disputing that sex is part of marriage
And I'm not okay with sex as a weapon to bring the other spouse in line
THE preliminaries to sex are often great
But that climactic moment that brings such joy to the hearts of most men
is, in reality, for many women a sweat drenched, inhalation of body odor while being covered in a gelatinous slime.
Maybe the problem is
that it is no longer enough for the woman to be a willing participant
Now-per the Gurus SHE MUST ENJOY IT!!!!!!!!!
She is peppered with questions as the the satisfactoriness of the experience and woe betide the woman who fails to be enthusiastic
and heaven help the woman who finds the experience less than climactic.
Maybe if less time was spent trying to get her to live up to the expectations that our society says must be lived up to
and more time was spent appreciating the willingness of her participating for no other reason than to bring joy to her husband--more women would be willing to participate on a regular basis
I actually am not aware of this movement myself. Perhaps it's because this is a no issue with me. And that is not to brag about my prowess either, it's just honest. I will not be able to identify with this problem and that could hinder my understanding, I'm sorry but it's just the truth templelady.
Look, I'm not disputing that sex is part of marriage
And I'm not okay with sex as a weapon to bring the other spouse in line
THE preliminaries to sex are often great
But that climactic moment that brings such joy to the hearts of most men
is, in reality, for many women a sweat drenched, inhalation of body odor while being covered in a gelatinous slime.
Maybe the problem is
that it is no longer enough for the woman to be a willing participant
Now-per the Gurus SHE MUST ENJOY IT!!!!!!!!!
She is peppered with questions as the the satisfactoriness of the experience and woe betide the woman who fails to be enthusiastic
and heaven help the woman who finds the experience less than climactic.
Maybe if less time was spent trying to get her to live up to the expectations that our society says must be lived up to
and more time was spent appreciating the willingness of her participating for no other reason than to bring joy to her husband--more women would be willing to participate on a regular basis
I love this!
I think people want and need to be loved. If they were really loved at home, if they were made to feel comfortable about their body as it ages (not 20 anymore) they might still be playful, loving, willing and try new things. They (might) would roll play, dress up, and explore. But when sex becomes an expected act from an emotional stranger/verbal abuser then it is an odor filled sweaty mess they cannot wait to shower after.
One day mine took my hand and I thought it was to be tender -- it was to point out how wrinkled it had gotten --- stand back ladies he's mine.
But back to the rape thing I wanted to address Joe.
Rape is one of the offences I believe should be punished by imprisonment for life at the very least.
If a person is imature, naieve, even at age 17, 18 this sometimes can be considered rape. In fact age might not matter in some case. Take for example many of young men that were raped by Catholic Priests...most of them were 16 and over...the media doesn't tell you this they want to use the word pedephilia to suggest that these preditors were after children...that was not the case. When a person has spiritual authority over another, and the victom doesn't know better, they lack the freedom of will in this situation.
Another thing that can be considerd rape is for example, I will do such and such to you or your family if you don't have sex with me...that is rape in my book.
Any adult who has sex with a child is guilty of rape.
OF course the classical forced rape is always Rape big time.
Sex with mentally disabled persons is rape too, when they don't have the faculty of reason that is necessary to know what is appropiate and what it not.
Well that is my story and I am sticking to it.
I did always picture these "boys" as younger like 10/12. How old are alter boys?
And yes your example of a threat in an effort to gain sexual acomplishments, would be rape to me. Not in the classic sense with the window climbing criminal -- but rape. Like White collar crime -- different but STILL a crime.
over and over, your husband calls you names then ignores you, then expects sex at bedtime. you don't want to, you hate him but you can't say no because a good wife never withholds sex and you've been programmed by years of verbal and emotional abuse, and a few punches, to do whatever your husband wants. to fulfill your wifely duty, you detach from reality and go numb to be able to bear his disgusting self imposed on you.
is it rape?
Sioux answer page one
Very close to it, potato. The woman's conditioning that prevented her from refusing disqualifies the treatment as outright rape IMO; but if she had refused, who's to know whether it would not quickly have become true rape?
Definitely assault, even if "only" emotional assault.
(I was ready to reply to Sioux I forget how to spell your handle and I am afraid if I go back I will loose this post. So, I apologize. I am having trouble with the quote thing.)
But I reread Potato's post -- the part with a few punches ---
I must have blocked that out. Gosh, yes rape. Potato, your experience is similar to my dear friend's. He beat her. She lived in fear with blackened eyes and terrible bruises. He would make her "do it" with threats and beatings and fear of more beatings.... even when the children ran in to see why Mommy was crying. He would continue his vile sexual pleasure as they stood there watching and crying...
He is a vile creature, a criminal and should be in jail
Marital Rape: The victim is raped by her husband. Example: A woman recently had gynecological surgery. Two days after she came home from the hospital, her husband forced her to have sexual intercourse. This caused her to hemorrhage; she was re-hospitalized.
Chatty stop apologizing --you have nothing to apologize for
And the situation I have outlined has nothing to do with being loved as a child or an adult
and nothing to do with how much she loves her husband
or his or her prowess
Some people just find the physical sensation of being being covered in sweat and sticky stuff unpleasant --sure you can shower afterwards --but limiting the number of times the situation occurs is equally valid
I don't think it can be so easily defined. I don't think it fits in one category or another because you have "people" involved...then you have to take into account ages and who was mature and who was immature. I just don't think it can be defined so easily. There are all different kinds of "rape" categorized these days...and who said, she said, he said....etc. I just don't think it's a line anymore that's cut and dry.
A 13 year old has sex with a 21 year old...yea, sure the 21 was more mature of course and the 13 was just probably entering puberty and sexually inquesitive. A 16 year old and an 18 year old...dunno....both know the sexual boundries but the law is always there.
I just don't think you can easily define it unless it is more in the category of a sexual preditor type of thing. Can define from personal opinion, but I really think the "teen" areas....from 13 to 19 are person opinions in many ways.
I'm not saying at all it's "right"....I'm just saying I don't think you can actually "define" it.
I just re-read back as I skipped some...maybe my post is either out of line, or not on topic. If so, apologize.
Chatty stop apologizing --you have nothing to apologize for
And the situation I have outlined has nothing to do with being loved as a child or an adult
and nothing to do with how much she loves her husband
or his or her prowess
Some people just find the physical sensation of being being covered in sweat and sticky stuff unpleasant --sure you can shower afterwards --but limiting the number of times the situation occurs is equally valid
I swear this subject puts me on the front lines in my thinking I've noticed.
Sometimes I'm glad I'm not single cause this sex dating thing would be a real obstacle for me.
Do they have classes for this stuff I wonder?
I just needed to get light and heck why not do it here!
I went to a woman's advance in TWI once when I was a single young woman of 19. We could write down any questions we had, and at the end of the advance they would be answered by Dottie M.
There was one question where a woman was asking for help. Her husband wanted to have sexual intercourse at least 5 times a day. The woman didn't want to have intercourse that often, and asked what should be done. Dottie basically told her to stop complaining, and be thankful she had a husband who wanted to make love to her. (Except she didn't say it so nicely.) Dottie said there were alot of women who would love to be in her shoes.
Then I heard on here that she counselled women who were sexually assulted and/or raped. I can just imagine what she said to them.
Sorry, I know this is off topic. I just think there was a lot of insensitive things said in TWI, and if "leadership" said it, it became doctrine. No one in TWI ever said sexual assault was godly, but I believe alot of people didn't know the difference between assault and love.
Then I heard on here that she counselled women who were sexually assulted and/or raped. I can just imagine what she said to them.
Sorry, I know this is off topic. I just think there was a lot of insensitive things said in TWI, and if "leadership" said it, it became doctrine. No one in TWI ever said sexual assault was godly, but I believe alot of people didn't know the difference between assault and love.
I don't think this is off-topic... it's one of the reasons I'm so adament about my right to say no at any point.
and whoever mentioned role-playing... yes! if there isn't any trust, I consider that kind of relaitionship impossible. part of trust is knowing that the other person will stop, adjust, and in general consider you because they love you and how you feel matters to them. they can't get so caught up the role that reality ceases to exist.
I remember when the RC who counseled me and my ex before our divorce told him "if she wants you run around naked in your toolbelt, then run around naked in your toolbelt" and all I could think was "gross". that's a natural reaction to someone you loathe. nothing was going to make me want him, because I wasn't a person to him.
I swear to think these twi people thought they even had the right to counsel anyone on something other than how to cook meatloaf was ridiculous on their parts.
And I know (despite my personal situation) that not all women enjoy sexual relations and I also know that twi's cure for nearly everything in a marriage problem was to let your husband get his rocks off more often. Heck even my husband was told he was allowing me to control him because our roles were the opposite as ones stated here.
I can only imagine what this new class they have on family principals (or something of that nature) is like. Is it the extreme in the other direction from CF&S in their efforts to make them a kinder gentler ministry?
And I am assuming that now all parties here realize (in detail) that I never condoned being taken advantage of my either spouse. My stand was regarding a woman torturing her man simply because she could and then using the rape card as a means of revenge.
It is this very "more sex is the solution attitude", not only of TWI but society as a whole, that leads to some of this "gray area rape". If you really believe that sex will fix the problem--and lord knows its screamed at us from every talk show, billboard and magazine--than the husband , boyfriend or acquaintance who presses on (no pun intended) despite the not so clear position of his partner--may, just may, be forgiven.
Let’s see it was said to different women that their ministry was their bodies and the like
It was said “it was a privilege to bless (screw) a man of God.”
Ex knew of a couple having problems and they were counseled, I believe she was ordered or directed to give her husband more BJ’s.
VPW asked me to go on a three day trip with him after asking me to “perform” (and I said no to performing) -- I will leave it to you – what he expected on the trip.
They showed porn flicks at the advanced class.
Weirwille would tell us to masturbate to “stay sweet”
Is it any wonder how some of us are a bit confused
Potato-I brought up the role playing. It was that I (they) would be more willing to do things like that if (I) was genuinely loved, cherished, and verbally caressed. But to have someone treat you like dog poop makes sex a horrible thing to do with a person like that. It makes it revolting to have to be touched by a vile and loathsome person. Cringe at the thought…. And if forced I would probably get into a fist fight or commit suicide or divorce – anything not to HAVE to have that happen again.
But if loved, you wouldn’t have to beg, push me, force me etc. If loved I would want to be touched by that man.
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ChattyKathy
You are so adorable. I have never known anyone that could say so much in one sentence.
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Dot Matrix
Potato
My post was not a judgement but a general statement...
Only you know how bad it was. I had a wife beater once upon a time. I should have pressed charges against him and today I would. But I would not press charges if at the end of the day we both had to go back to the same home. He would have to be removed or it wouldn't be safe.
I have a dear woman friend whose husband only got off when he saw blood -- he was a vile creature. He'd have to beat or punch her to get excited. At the time, when she went for help there was nothing out there... She was frightened of him but there was no where to go. In that case, today with the options, I would beg her to call the police and help hide her in a shelter or something...
Another friend had nothing but a drunk for a husband. He was cruel as they can be. But when drunk he always wanted "loving" and would demand it (force her when she would say no, please....) Of course it was awful, the stench, the selfishness, the time consumption... Being in the same house she was more frightned to say "no" then just just grin and bear it.
It is such a line and each relationship has different dynamics. I would have shot him with a pepper gun and left the house - I think. But then, there is always consequences with men/people like that.
Maybe in your case you could press charges and be safe. Then, man go for it. I do not believe anyone should force sex on anyone else. It is MINE and I should not be forced to give it a way. And those that think it is due...
There are some nice things the Bible talks about in marriage to ensure we are taken care of -- missing those things, well....
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ChattyKathy
I do hope after all this talking that I have added to this thread that everyone knows I do not agree with a man or a woman forcing themselves on each other.
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Dot Matrix
I know that is what you think, I believe you made that clear. (((Chatty))))
When I say those that think it is due, there are men who think to tell me that they have power over my body as it says so in the Bible --
Well, it also says to cherish your wife.
So, ysome husbands who are deplorable have no right to expect sex in my book, and to force it on anyone is not right
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potato
I know, Dot... I've known a lot of women who kept their mouths shut for various reasons, many because there'd be hell to pay at home if the police got involved, and because they had no where else to go... others because it "wasn't that bad and I need to be there for the kids". some areas are better than others for helping women get out, and help for men in abusive relationships lags far behind. it makes me so mad that women have to stay and get hurt, and their kids have to watch them being abused.
people might think the woman who goes to a hotel room with a man for drinks is stupid, and maybe she is, but if the guy never gets in trouble because "she asked for it" he'll keep looking for the naive and gullible to take advantage of. if he goes to jail, it sends a clear message to the men who would do such things. the press doesn't hurt as far as keeping stupid girls from doing stupid things, too.
if men who hit, harrass, rape and otherwise abuse their wives go to jail and lose the right to see their children, maybe things will change a little bit, but I think something along the lines of the witness protection program might be needed. parental rights groups will block any move to provide this kind of protection because the system could be used to hurt an innocent parent and ruin a parental relationship... and it's true, but I don't see that letting women die is the better option.
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Dot Matrix
Do you think she was raped?
I do...
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ChattyKathy
Absolutely! Men have personal responsibilities towards how they are to treat their wifes.
Regarding your niece.....I know the word rape generally refers to a violent act but by law there would never be a charge with that as the charge and for that reason (as has been stated here already) there should be a means of punishment for these young men and women that intentionally lure each into a situation to tag them so they can have bragging rights. To start with it's too bad that they weren't taught by their parent/parents enough self-respect not to engage in such vile things.
You have very good points there. And I would agree that the man in the hotel room being busted and sent to jail sends a clear message. And I appreciate that you included phrasing that indicated to me you could see it would be unwise on the woman to go into that room to start. Without question men that abuse women should be nailed and no one male or female deserves to be abused ever.
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potato
ChattyKathy, I have never believed it was anything but unwise on the part of a girl or woman or young man or anyone to go into a hotel room with a stranger, but I took the position at the extreme because for whatever reason, it will happen over and over again. maybe someone thinks that because he's a public figure he wouldn't risk his reputation, or whatever, it really doesn't matter. people will be unwise, but it's not their fault if they get raped and the implication of fault is what keeps girls quiet when they've been victimized.
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ChattyKathy
Please believe that I do not want to go around on this and I'm not repeating myself for that reason. But if a female goes into a man's hotel room for drinks she would have to be incredibly naive to not consider he wanted sex with her. And the likelihood of that is probably very small.
I know it's not 100% of the cases but some of the reported athlete's that were charged with rape included a woman that approached the athlete and in some way let him know she was interested in him. Again not all, but there are cases where it would almost appear the woman was setting them up, that is the extreme I realize but it has happened.
And in those cases it was still no less of a rape but the woman had some portion of the responsibility because of her intent from the start and I would hope in this day and time no woman would be so naive to think the male did not want sex since he invited her to his room equipped with a bed rather than downstairs in the lounge.
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templelady
Look, I'm not disputing that sex is part of marriage
And I'm not okay with sex as a weapon to bring the other spouse in line
THE preliminaries to sex are often great
But that climactic moment that brings such joy to the hearts of most men
is, in reality, for many women a sweat drenched, inhalation of body odor while being covered in a gelatinous slime.
Maybe the problem is
that it is no longer enough for the woman to be a willing participant
Now-per the Gurus SHE MUST ENJOY IT!!!!!!!!!
She is peppered with questions as the the satisfactoriness of the experience and woe betide the woman who fails to be enthusiastic
and heaven help the woman who finds the experience less than climactic.
Maybe if less time was spent trying to get her to live up to the expectations that our society says must be lived up to
and more time was spent appreciating the willingness of her participating for no other reason than to bring joy to her husband--more women would be willing to participate on a regular basis
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ChattyKathy
I actually am not aware of this movement myself. Perhaps it's because this is a no issue with me. And that is not to brag about my prowess either, it's just honest. I will not be able to identify with this problem and that could hinder my understanding, I'm sorry but it's just the truth templelady.
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Dot Matrix
I love this!
I think people want and need to be loved. If they were really loved at home, if they were made to feel comfortable about their body as it ages (not 20 anymore) they might still be playful, loving, willing and try new things. They (might) would roll play, dress up, and explore. But when sex becomes an expected act from an emotional stranger/verbal abuser then it is an odor filled sweaty mess they cannot wait to shower after.
One day mine took my hand and I thought it was to be tender -- it was to point out how wrinkled it had gotten --- stand back ladies he's mine.
But back to the rape thing I wanted to address Joe.
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Dot Matrix
Joe Pasha said:
I did always picture these "boys" as younger like 10/12. How old are alter boys?
And yes your example of a threat in an effort to gain sexual acomplishments, would be rape to me. Not in the classic sense with the window climbing criminal -- but rape. Like White collar crime -- different but STILL a crime.
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Dot Matrix
(I was ready to reply to Sioux I forget how to spell your handle and I am afraid if I go back I will loose this post. So, I apologize. I am having trouble with the quote thing.)
But I reread Potato's post -- the part with a few punches ---
I must have blocked that out. Gosh, yes rape. Potato, your experience is similar to my dear friend's. He beat her. She lived in fear with blackened eyes and terrible bruises. He would make her "do it" with threats and beatings and fear of more beatings.... even when the children ran in to see why Mommy was crying. He would continue his vile sexual pleasure as they stood there watching and crying...
He is a vile creature, a criminal and should be in jail
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Dot Matrix
Potato that link I posted included this
Marital Rape: The victim is raped by her husband. Example: A woman recently had gynecological surgery. Two days after she came home from the hospital, her husband forced her to have sexual intercourse. This caused her to hemorrhage; she was re-hospitalized.
http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/Ab..._definition.htm
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templelady
Chatty stop apologizing --you have nothing to apologize for
And the situation I have outlined has nothing to do with being loved as a child or an adult
and nothing to do with how much she loves her husband
or his or her prowess
Some people just find the physical sensation of being being covered in sweat and sticky stuff unpleasant --sure you can shower afterwards --but limiting the number of times the situation occurs is equally valid
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sogwap51
I don't think it can be so easily defined. I don't think it fits in one category or another because you have "people" involved...then you have to take into account ages and who was mature and who was immature. I just don't think it can be defined so easily. There are all different kinds of "rape" categorized these days...and who said, she said, he said....etc. I just don't think it's a line anymore that's cut and dry.
A 13 year old has sex with a 21 year old...yea, sure the 21 was more mature of course and the 13 was just probably entering puberty and sexually inquesitive. A 16 year old and an 18 year old...dunno....both know the sexual boundries but the law is always there.
I just don't think you can easily define it unless it is more in the category of a sexual preditor type of thing. Can define from personal opinion, but I really think the "teen" areas....from 13 to 19 are person opinions in many ways.
I'm not saying at all it's "right"....I'm just saying I don't think you can actually "define" it.
I just re-read back as I skipped some...maybe my post is either out of line, or not on topic. If so, apologize.
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ChattyKathy
I swear this subject puts me on the front lines in my thinking I've noticed.
Sometimes I'm glad I'm not single cause this sex dating thing would be a real obstacle for me.
Do they have classes for this stuff I wonder?
I just needed to get light and heck why not do it here!
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VeganXTC
I went to a woman's advance in TWI once when I was a single young woman of 19. We could write down any questions we had, and at the end of the advance they would be answered by Dottie M.
There was one question where a woman was asking for help. Her husband wanted to have sexual intercourse at least 5 times a day. The woman didn't want to have intercourse that often, and asked what should be done. Dottie basically told her to stop complaining, and be thankful she had a husband who wanted to make love to her. (Except she didn't say it so nicely.) Dottie said there were alot of women who would love to be in her shoes.
Then I heard on here that she counselled women who were sexually assulted and/or raped. I can just imagine what she said to them.
Sorry, I know this is off topic. I just think there was a lot of insensitive things said in TWI, and if "leadership" said it, it became doctrine. No one in TWI ever said sexual assault was godly, but I believe alot of people didn't know the difference between assault and love.
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potato
I don't think this is off-topic... it's one of the reasons I'm so adament about my right to say no at any point.
and whoever mentioned role-playing... yes! if there isn't any trust, I consider that kind of relaitionship impossible. part of trust is knowing that the other person will stop, adjust, and in general consider you because they love you and how you feel matters to them. they can't get so caught up the role that reality ceases to exist.
I remember when the RC who counseled me and my ex before our divorce told him "if she wants you run around naked in your toolbelt, then run around naked in your toolbelt" and all I could think was "gross". that's a natural reaction to someone you loathe. nothing was going to make me want him, because I wasn't a person to him.
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ChattyKathy
I swear to think these twi people thought they even had the right to counsel anyone on something other than how to cook meatloaf was ridiculous on their parts.
And I know (despite my personal situation) that not all women enjoy sexual relations and I also know that twi's cure for nearly everything in a marriage problem was to let your husband get his rocks off more often. Heck even my husband was told he was allowing me to control him because our roles were the opposite as ones stated here.
I can only imagine what this new class they have on family principals (or something of that nature) is like. Is it the extreme in the other direction from CF&S in their efforts to make them a kinder gentler ministry?
And I am assuming that now all parties here realize (in detail) that I never condoned being taken advantage of my either spouse. My stand was regarding a woman torturing her man simply because she could and then using the rape card as a means of revenge.
my=by
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templelady
IMO
It is this very "more sex is the solution attitude", not only of TWI but society as a whole, that leads to some of this "gray area rape". If you really believe that sex will fix the problem--and lord knows its screamed at us from every talk show, billboard and magazine--than the husband , boyfriend or acquaintance who presses on (no pun intended) despite the not so clear position of his partner--may, just may, be forgiven.
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ChattyKathy
Ah ah! Now the dots connect to what you meant earlier that I didn't quite understand. ;)
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Dot Matrix
Sex was an answer to many things in TWI
Let’s see it was said to different women that their ministry was their bodies and the like
It was said “it was a privilege to bless (screw) a man of God.”
Ex knew of a couple having problems and they were counseled, I believe she was ordered or directed to give her husband more BJ’s.
VPW asked me to go on a three day trip with him after asking me to “perform” (and I said no to performing) -- I will leave it to you – what he expected on the trip.
They showed porn flicks at the advanced class.
Weirwille would tell us to masturbate to “stay sweet”
Is it any wonder how some of us are a bit confused
Potato-I brought up the role playing. It was that I (they) would be more willing to do things like that if (I) was genuinely loved, cherished, and verbally caressed. But to have someone treat you like dog poop makes sex a horrible thing to do with a person like that. It makes it revolting to have to be touched by a vile and loathsome person. Cringe at the thought…. And if forced I would probably get into a fist fight or commit suicide or divorce – anything not to HAVE to have that happen again.
But if loved, you wouldn’t have to beg, push me, force me etc. If loved I would want to be touched by that man.
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