Good Things We Might Remember VPW Did for the Way Ministry

[Eagle]

Just curious.

I know all the negatives on Wierwille. But what about the good? He did, after all, build the ministry to credible levels and it seemed pretty prosperous to me while he was alive. It seemed to take the nose dive after LCM took control.

There is some research, I believe, that may have originated with him, that was pretty good. I hope it originated with him.

Any thoughts on the GOOD stuff?

[johniam]

I'll vote for 'Are the Dead Alive Now'. During his last SNS teaching at HQ, not even one month before he died, he reaffirmed that ADAN was the most important thing he ever taught, IHO. Before TWI I kind of leaned toward reincarnation, but his presentation of ADAN just made sense; still does.

Once in a conversation with believers, we were all talking about which topic was more critical, JCING or ADAN. One guy said, "Which one has more devil spirits associated with it?", the obvious answer being ADAN. That song off the first Breakthrough recording paints a desperate picture of people trying to somehow get in touch with departed loved ones driving themselves crazy in the process. I haven't known many people like that, but the ones I HAVE known stand out. They just can't enjoy life; they're in bondage. ADAN delivers people from this. That's a good thing IMO.

As for goos things, how about Aquilla and Priscilla.

Edited April 2, 2007 by johniam

[indyrobb]

There is one thing that VPW taught which I have not heard any where else, (besides an offshoot) is that the topic changes from "gifts" to manifestations in I Cor. 12:7

[Bolshevik]

I'll vote for 'Are the Dead Alive Now'. During his last SNS teaching at HQ, not even one month before he died, he reaffirmed that ADAN was the most important thing he ever taught, IHO. Before TWI I kind of leaned toward reincarnation, but his presentation of ADAN just made sense; still does.

Once in a conversation with believers, we were all talking about which topic was more critical, JCING or ADAN. One guy said, "Which one has more devil spirits associated with it?", the obvious answer being ADAN. That song off the first Breakthrough recording paints a desperate picture of people trying to somehow get in touch with departed loved ones driving themselves crazy in the process. I haven't known many people like that, but the ones I HAVE known stand out. They just can't enjoy life; they're in bondage. ADAN delivers people from this. That's a good thing IMO.

As for goos things, how about Aquilla and Priscilla.

As far as I know, the Christadelphians believe almost exactly what ADAN says. (I haven't checked every detail) and they've been around 100-200 years. There are probably other groups.

The teaching of holy spirit and manefestians I have not found elsewhere either.

[Jeaniam]

Just curious.

I know all the negatives on Wierwille. But what about the good? He did, after all, build the ministry to credible levels and it seemed pretty prosperous to me while he was alive. It seemed to take the nose dive after LCM took control.

There is some research, I believe, that may have originated with him, that was pretty good. I hope it originated with him.

Any thoughts on the GOOD stuff?

I don't think a lot of it originated with him, but I think he might have been one of the first to put it in a really coherent package (PFAL). I think one of the great things he did was his work in the Holy Spirit field; the manifestations and fruit of the spirit, etc. I agree with you, TWI really took the nose dive after LCM took over and especially after VPW fell asleep.

BTW, I'm really glad you started this thread.

Edited April 2, 2007 by Jeaniam

[waysider]

"The evil men do lives after them. The good is oft interred with their bones. So let it be with Caesar."

As to "Are The Dead Alive Now?"---------I believe the origin of that text has been discussed here at GSC and can be found in the archives.(Nudge, nudge--Wink, wink)

[coolchef]

jean

don't you know ole vic stole most if not all his stuff from reputable reasearches?

[Jeaniam]

jean

don't you know ole vic stole most if not all his stuff from reputable reasearches?

So what? Don't really care.

Edited April 3, 2007 by Jeaniam

[Oakspear]

So what? Don't really care.

So what? He wasn't one of the first to put anything together in a coherent package, his "package" was largely Leonard's class with Wierwille's name stamped on it.

You don't care that "the man of God" stole his centerpiece class?

[Dot Matrix]

So what? Don't really care.

That is shallow and vey lemming of you.

[fellowshipper]

I have heard a lot of new things here about VPW I never knew when I went through the Corps.

And was quite shocked to see the direction of the Ministry and the LCM stuff there after.

Mostly the things I was not privy of when I was in.

I just went to a passion play last weekend and watched the woman caught in adultery and Jesus said, he that is without sin (this selfsame sin) let him cast the first stone. We all have sin.

Vp was not perfect.

Who is?

I once learned we can't forgive someone until we remember what we are/were forgiven for.

About the plagarism, well I sat throug BJ Lenards class too. He spoke of plagarism rights.

It was just like sitting through the ADV class without so much scripture.

I concur much he taught was already there, VP just reverberated it.

Is that wrong?

I think my Lord Jesus repeated scripture that was written before him and opened the eyes of their understanding.

I can SIT when I want for specific and non-specific things everwhere I go.

Much I learned I will never let anyone talk me out of.

And yes I do doubt this and that but heck I did that before during and after the Way. We are called humans.

VP is not here to defend himself as he is gone off of the earth.

Yet if he was he would melt your face.

I am not advocating how he hurt young innocent females hearts or other things that it was right. But I know he did reverberate the Word to us. I am still at times troubled about his lifestyles but hey I am troubled by those around me today.

I really don't want anyone to have a go at me of my thoughts but if you want to: BUGGER OFF !

[dmiller]

(My response --- in blue):

Quote from Fellowshipper:

"I have heard a lot of new things here about VPW I never knew when I went through the Corps.

And was quite shocked to see the direction of the Ministry and the LCM stuff there after.

Mostly the things I was not privy of when I was in.

Although *in*, I was never corps

I just went to a passion play last weekend and watched the woman caught in adultery and Jesus said,

he that is without sin (this selfsame sin) let him cast the first stone. We all have sin.

Vp was not perfect.

Who is?

Jesus was right, and so are you.

I once learned we can't forgive someone until we remember what we are/were forgiven for.

About the plagiarism, well I sat through BJ Lenard's class too. He spoke of plagiarism rights.

Did you ever think WHY he had to mention those rights?

It was just like sitting through the ADV class without so much scripture.

I concur much he taught was already there, VP just reverberated it.

Is that wrong?

Yes it is -- if one pawns it off as his OWN work.

I think my Lord Jesus repeated scripture that was written before him,

and opened the eyes of their understanding.

Correct. And He NEVER claimed authorship of it either.

I can SIT when I want for specific and non-specific things everywhere I go.

I do the same.

Much I learned I will never let anyone talk me out of.

I do the same.

And yes I do doubt this and that but heck I did that before during and after the Way.

We are called humans. VP is not here to defend himself as he is gone off of the earth.

Yet if he was he would melt your face.

I have questions (these days), also. As far as *melting the face* goes,

I'll pass. Jesus "confronted* the Pharisees. Perhaps that is the docvic verson of melt your face

(I REALLY wish you could have seen it in the ORIGINAL!)

Somehow (call it intuition), I think Jesus did it out of Love, and not hate.

I am not advocating how he hurt young innocent females hearts or other things that wasn't right.

Glad to hear that.

But I know he did reverberate the Word to us.

I am still at times troubled about his lifestyles but hey I am troubled by those around me today.

I really don't want anyone to have a go at me of my thoughts but if you want to: BUGGER OFF !

Not trying to *have a go* at you. Far from it.

I wasn't 9th Corps (or ANY corps) like you, but I thought this worthy of response.

But in honor of your request --- I'll Bugger OFF.

(end of quote)

His (docvic's) lifestyle preempted his message,

and he talked to a lot of folks in his time.

You do the math.

Edited April 3, 2007 by dmiller

[Jeaniam]

That is shallow and vey lemming of you.

So what. STILL don't really care.

[Oakspear]

So what. STILL don't really care.

And that my friends, is one reason why Wierwille was able to get away with his lying, his plagiarism, his abuses both sexual and mental. Enough people who knew, didn't care.

[waterbuffalo]

Jeaniam, just out of curiosity, if it was your daughter who had had sex with vp and you found out about it, would you care about that?

[cman]

here's manifestations taught by another faith

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1'%C3%AD_Faith

[cman]

http://www.bahai.org/

you guys are not looking very hard if

you can't find manifestations of the spirit taught

http://www.google.com/search?q=manifestati...amp;rlz=1I7GGLJ

1,210,000 hits

[coolchef]

my dearest fellowshiper

your quote ' if ole vic were here he would melt your face'

is just as wrong as wrong can be

i would MELT HIS UGLY FACE

thank you

[cman]

more-

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls...amp;btnG=Search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls...amp;btnG=Search

[coolchef]

is it not a damned shame when people don't CARE?

jean you are probable the most wonderful gal out there but i liked you better when you didn't post

but keep on posting

i need the laughs.

[cman]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls...amp;btnG=Search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%...G=Google+Search

[johniam]

quote: is it not a damned shame when people don't CARE?

quote: And that my friends, is one reason why Wierwille was able to get away with his lying, his plagiarism, his abuses both sexual and mental. Enough people who knew, didn't care.

We care; everybody cares about something. We just don't care about the petty little pathetic attempts to put us under law we see here.

[Abigail]

posted in the wrong thread, sorry.

Edited April 3, 2007 by Abigail

[rascal]

attempts to put you under the law??? WHAT law??? You cannot seem to accept the experiences of your fellow posters...so you have to manufacture a lable, plaster it on them ...then it feels safe to be mean, to discount their veracity, to cast insult.

You get to stay in your cozy little cocoon of denial. Really spiritual guy.

Edited April 4, 2007 by rascal

[WordWolf]

Just curious.

I know all the negatives on Wierwille. But what about the good? He did, after all, build the ministry to credible levels and it seemed pretty prosperous to me while he was alive. It seemed to take the nose dive after LCM took control.

He taught some good Bible. He plagiarized it and pretended it was solely his discovery to puff up

his ego and image, but he still taught it, and I still heard it.

I've never said otherwise, nor forgotten that.

There is some research, I believe, that may have originated with him, that was pretty good. I hope it originated with him.

With the exception of usage of the word "manifestation",

and the sex stuff,

it's all been traced to other, better Christians.

Any thoughts on the GOOD stuff?

That covers the good stuff, as far as I've seen, as reflected by what HE did.

Everything else was done by others, whether in the group or whom he stole from.

He was fond of warming himself at a fire he did not build, and taking credit

for chopping down the trees, curing the wood, chopping the logs, stacking them,

setting them in the fireplace, and lighting them.

But he taught some good Bible anyway.

As to "Are The Dead Alive Now?"---------I believe the origin of that text has been discussed here at GSC and can be found in the archives.(Nudge, nudge--Wink, wink)

That was 2 of Bullinger's books, retyped and reshuffled.

"The Rich Man and Lazarus- Death, an Intermediate State?"

and

Saul and the Witch at Endor-Did the Dead Rise at Her Bidding?"

The former is available for free online.

If the concept is as rare as some apologists think, why does it have a name outside of

twi- "soul sleep"? It's been discussed enough to have been assigned a name.

Edited April 4, 2007 by WordWolf