TWIt Brain - Hard to Eradicate

[Belle]

These are excerpts from Vince Finnegan's ministry website and a prime example of why TWI leadership, especially those who were most abusive and destroyed so many lives, should not try to continue in any kind of God-related leadership position:

The Scriptures have the answers for all of man's problems. "He sent His word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions" (Psalms 107:20).

Sound familiar, anyone? You don't need anything but the word - the word - the word - nothing but the word (Bliss, where's your puke icon??)

The most important issue in life is the lordship of Christ. Those who hear and believe the words he spoke will have life in the age to come (John 5:24). Those who reject the words will be judged by those very same words in the last day (John 12:48). Christian discipleship is the only way to know the truth, which sets men free (John 8:32-36).

Still stuck on performance based religion. How many hoops do his people have to jump through? It's not Jesus Christ - it's DOING what they tell you Jesus's words say to do.

Each person is responsible for his own life and behavior. God has blessed us with the privilege of freewill and holds each person accountable to utilize it correctly. Destructive emotions such as hate, anger, and bitterness must not be rationalized by blaming others, the environment, or a dysfunctional family.Biblical counseling helps the person accept personal responsibility so that change can be realized.

Sounds like "spiritual anger" and "in your face" counseling abounds to help someone get rid of their own emotional issues, as identified and defined by Vince.

Sin must not be viewed as sickness for which therapy rather than repentance is sought. Habitual sin is not addictive or compulsive behavior that medical treatment will cure. Habitual sin is habitual sin, and must be dealt with as such.

Alcoholism, drug addition, sexual addiction, etc. are choices and not diseases. With God's help and godly living, a person can be freed. If dealt with as disease, the self-afflicted souls are doomed to stay hopeless and helpless.

I just don't even know where to start with this... it's so... so... TWI!

People do not have the answers to their problems within themselves. However, at times it is necessary to examine oneself with the guidance of a competent, godly-minded counselor in order to realize the real problem.

So, it's NOT God who works within you to will and do of His good pleasure? It's the leaders in the church??

Interactive group meetings can be a valuable aid for someone seeking to change; they are not a substitute for repentance and obedience to the Scriptures.

Can you say legalism, guilt and burdens?

Jesus taught that we are to surrender selfish, worldly concerns for life in the age to come (John 12:25). As we die to self and live for God, then our problems disappear or become manageable. This truth underlies all our counseling efforts.

Judgement

After Jesus' thousand year reign, the unfaithful who have died will be resurrected, judged, and condemned to eternal annihilation and separation from God (Revelation 20:7-15). read an article called [Two Judgements]

Not the "unsaved", but the "unfaithful"

Faith implies obedience (James 2:14-26). If Jesus is our Lord, then we must obey. We are required to maintain faith unto the end ... in order to enter the Kingdom.

So... the only way to get to heaven is to follow whatever legalism Mr. Finnegan teaches we are to follow?

Maybe it's just me but and my tendency to "read between the lines" of things like this, but it sounds like TWI: the oppression, the legalism, the rules, the jugdments and the lack of compassion, tenderness and mercy.

[washingtonweather]

He and many others who still preach perfection through performance are in for a rude awakening!

As a matter of fact, that whole concept is so idolatrous.

[JavaJane]

...."People do not have the answers to their problems within themselves. However, at times it is necessary to examine oneself with the guidance of a competent, godly-minded counselor in order to realize the real problem"....

BLECH!!!

Since when did anyone other than Jesus Christ step in to be the mediator between God and man? But then again, I guess that's why we need such strict supervision on our lives, right?

But statements like this make me wonder - who does he go to for "godly-minded" finger pointng ...errr... I mean, counselling?

The whole thing makes me feel sick... like when someone asks you - "Are you doing ok?" when you feel fine and are having a wonderful day.

Used to have a mysogynistic prick that would ask me that whenever he would see me smiling. When I would say, "Great!" he would ask if I was sure. By the time this line of questioning was over, I went from :lol: to :) to :mellow: to :huh: to :unsure: to :blink: and finally end up :( .

Now I realize I was just letting him ruin my day and take advantage of my desire to do right and be good.

Now I know he had the spiritual insight of a pile of poo.

[Bolshevik]

The whole thing makes me feel sick... like when someone asks you - "Are you doing ok?" when you feel fine and are having a wonderful day.

Used to have a mysogynistic prick that would ask me that whenever he would see me smiling. When I would say, "Great!" he would ask if I was sure. By the time this line of questioning was over, I went from :lol: to :) to :mellow: to :huh: to :unsure: to :blink: and finally end up :( .

Now I realize I was just letting him ruin my day and take advantage of my desire to do right and be good.

Now I know he had the spiritual insight of a pile of poo.

"Oh, I'm sorry you took it that way."

Edited May 4, 2007 by Bolshevik

[Ham]

Each person is responsible for his own life and behavior. God has blessed us with the privilege of freewill and holds each person accountable to utilize it correctly.

Hmm, not too bad, but Freud might disagree with him, as far as the fee will part goes..

Destructive emotions such as hate, anger, and bitterness must not be rationalized by blaming others, the environment, or a dysfunctional family.

Since when? What if that is indeed the real root of the problem? Oh, I forgot,"believers" don't have "problems".

Hmm.. the environment. If you're asking people who do not have basic biological needs satisfied to succumb to your logic, I think you're nuts. Same old insanity, "just give them da VERD".

Biblical counseling (and who is being recommended as being "qualified" to do the job here? Naw, not VF..) helps the person accept personal responsibility so that change can be realized.

Only thing, I've seen people forced to accept "personal" responsibility, but no positive change was perceptible, or "realized". I've seen nice people turned into bigots, including myself.

"They" helped me once.. no thanks, not again.

[Belle]

Used to have a mysogynistic prick that would ask me that whenever he would see me smiling. When I would say, "Great!" he would ask if I was sure. By the time this line of questioning was over, I went from :lol: to :) to :mellow: to :huh: to :unsure: to :blink: and finally end up :( .

:P That pretty much sums up my whole time in TWI. It was great the first month or so but downhill after that. Just add a little gun to the head of that :( and that's really how I felt by the time I left.

I don't know about this god they teach. :huh: My Daddy's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but he treats me a million and one times better than the god of this bozo TWI.

[Bolshevik]

Hmm, not too bad, but Freud might disagree with him, as far as the fee will part goes..

Since when? What if that is indeed the real root of the problem? Oh, I forgot,"believers" don't have "problems".

fee will?

once a bunch of use were hanging out at Wierwille Pond. Mrs. W showed up and one of the girls asked if she needed anything. She said something like "Need, don't know the word, I've never had a need"

I was like ???????? I'm not supposed to have needs?

I was baffled.

(well I've learned here at GS that her husband had few "needs")

[Belle]

oops - double post - sorry

Maybe I should seek counseling? :unsure:

Edited May 4, 2007 by Belle

[Ham]

fee will?

Sorry, must have been a slip of my Freudian tongue..

Hmm. Well, there may be a few ways to eradicte TWIT brain, but I think some of these "ex-ministers" might end up in a straight jacket..

sorry, carry on..

[waysider]

LIFE IS TREMENDOUS!!

(or was that "tumultuous"?)

Never could remember.

[I Love Bagpipes]

Interesting Belle. Are the quotes from one article? I looked around a little on Vince's site but couldn't seem to find them. They're probably right in front of me and I just don't see them.

I dare not enter fully into this thread, or I will find myself trying to unstick a web one strand at a time.

When I read these quotes, I feel an invisible bind that creeps around my heart and silences it. :mellow: :huh:

I read this quote this morning which I've chewed on some.

"An absolute value is not proven by logic or metaphysical arguments; it is accepted, believed (even when not discussed), and hedged about with taboos to protect it." (James Williams)

[Belle]

Pipes, it's in the Counseling section (http://kingdomready.org/counseling.php) I don't know if it's Firefox or poor web design, but I have to scroll past a bunch of dead space to get to the actual content of the website at the bottom of the page.

I guess he left TWI but TWI didn't leave him. Pity he hasn't learned anything since leaving... namely, how to treat others and how to love.

[I Love Bagpipes]

Thanks Belle.

Actually the context of the article softens it up some for me. I am glad to see that they include physiological dysfunctions as a cause as well.

I'm currently reading Waking the Dead by John Eldridge and am enjoying it. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but much I do agree with (for my life at this stage.) Eldridge addresses "counseling" from a biblical perspective in that the holy spirit is the great counselor residing within the heart, and that listening to one's heart is vital for that counsel. (As you know the heart stuff is one of my favorite subjects. All that Pert and Heartmath background gives more insight to Eldridge-type books.)

Anyhoo....t'anks for the link.

[Watered Garden]

I remember a story my WOW sister, who was in the 4th WC, told about this gentleman when he coordinated the WC. They lived in house trailers at that time, and the first week they were there, there was a scrap of carpet or throw rug or something hanging off the roof of the thing in front of the door, such that each girl had to duck a bit to get in or out without it brushing their heads. After a few days, the residents of that trailer were called together by Rev. F. for a screamfest. Seemed their leaving the rug in place showed a great lack of spirituality and what the hell was wrong with them and he oughta dismiss the whole bunch. They were terrified and crying. Actually they were terrified for quite some time.

I remember thinking when she told me, "How stupid of him. How did that teach them the Bible?"

Honestly, I would have been terrified to touch the damn thing, pull it down, wash it, throw it away or anything. And their first couple of weeks there, they were probably afraid to breathe.

WG

Edited May 5, 2007 by Watered Garden

[waysider]

Darned if you do, darned if you don't.

Now get out there and weed that Swiss chard!!

Oops. Sorry. Looks like my believing for sunshine needs some improvement.

[excathedra]

sorry belle i haven't read this

finnegan

there's got to be an irish joke out there about this sob

[Belle]

No obligation to read, ex. It's probably better that you didn't.... especially not on an empty stomach. It could set off gag reflexes.

I've heard the sob was a joke, but not any jokes specifically about him.

Maybe this one is about him?

I Not Come to Work

Hung Chow calls AIB where he works and says, "Hey, boss I not come work today, I really sick. I got headache, stomach-ache and my legs hurt. I not come work."

The boss says, "You know Hung Chow, I really need you today.

When I feel like this I go to my wife and tell her to give me sex.

That makes me feel better and I can go to work. You should try that."

Two hours later Hung Chow calls again, "Boss, I do what you say and I feel great. I be at work soon. You got nice house."

[Kevlar2000]

sorry belle i haven't read this

finnegan

there's got to be an irish joke out there about this sob

Hey excie, here's one:

An Irishman walks out of fellowhip.....

(kind of a variant on the old "An Irishman walks out of a bar.....)

:)

*I'm kidding. I hope VF is doing better. Although not my most favorite Way leader, he did provide me with an eye-opener which stays with me to this day.*