That sorry tale so typified the 12 years I was in it's almost scary, except back then you wouldn't have to go 1800 miles to find and advanced class grad !
I'm not exactly calling you a liar but I don't believe the story as told. Even TWI adherents aren't that stupid.
<center>sudo</center>
Maybe you weren't exposed to the leadership loy sent out in the second half of the 1990's..
The limb guy here was, well.. not much smarter than a brick..
I think part of his corps "training" included huffing not less than a certain prescribed amount of airplane glue.. that would at least explain a few things.
From my own sordid history in the way, to the hundreds of horror stories related in here, it sadly seems all too credible."
So when did these guys get so stupid? I left around '87 and most folks in TWI then seemed to be at least of sound mind if not a little deluded. Let me get this straight.. a little girl comes in yelling that there are spirits in the garage and EVERYONE doesn't go out to see what the heck is up in the garage? Hmmmm..
They probably didn't run out because at that point they were being taught that you had to have revelation from God in order to cast out spirits...
Now this story may sound a little bit strange for you, but it is TRUE... Here's an example:
I was living and working in a resort area at one point in my life... went to sleep in my room, woke up to noises coming from the kitchen/bar area of the resort (bar closes at 2:00, this was 3:00am.) I sat up in bed, just as my dresser flew across my room and fell over onto my bed - it missed me, thank God. The noises from downstairs stopped, and I sat awake in my bed for the rest of the night scared out of my mind praying and SITing.
Called the leadership the next day, and they told me to move. I did as they asked (I was pretty new at the time, only a foundational class grad) and wondered to myself, "if they are so spiritual and powerful like the class says and like people treat them, then why don't they come over here and get RID of the thing - this is my room, and I want to keep it!)
Instead, I moved into a nasty cabin with no plumbing so I could continue to work there. I couln't stand it, so I quit the job and moved completely.
People became afraid of the debil spitits, because they never knew for sure that they were in fellowship or not, and therefore weren't sure if He would back them up in any situation. These leaders NEVER EVEN CAME UP TO THE PLACE TO COMFORT ME!
So when did these guys get so stupid? I left around '87 and most folks in TWI then seemed to be at least of sound mind if not a little deluded. Let me get this straight.. a little girl comes in yelling that there are spirits in the garage and EVERYONE doesn't go out to see what the heck is up in the garage? Hmmmm..
<center>sudo</center>
1. Motivation in the ministry was generally based on fear of death or other "attack of the Adversary".
2. Devils spirits were used to explain damn near everything in life.
3. Only leadership had developed the believing to cast the spirits out, the rest of us were still on "milk", aspiring to be like them.
4. Discerning of Spirits is a sign of maturity.
5. Critical thinking, or simple logic even, is considered devilish in twi. You believe what leadership tells you. You apply their previous reasoning to new situations.
6. This was the ministry that convinced its followers that twi saved the world from the wrath of Y2K
7. Even if I'm told that this story was made up, I'll still believe something just like it did happen, and more than once.
8. Nobody moved, because they were all lemmings, leadership didn't even need to be present.
If they did act on their own without leadership then they were claiming to be spiritually mature and not needing the help of the leadership, which would be prideful, which could cause you to be MA.
Re:"sudo-oh yes they are. From my own sordid history in the way, to the hundreds of horror stories related in here, it sadly seems all too credible."
So when did these guys get so stupid? I left around '87 and most folks in TWI then seemed to be at least of sound mind if not a little deluded. Let me get this straight.. a little girl comes in yelling that there are spirits in the garage and EVERYONE doesn't go out to see what the heck is up in the garage? Hmmmm..
sudo
For what it's worth Sudo -- I left about the same time you did.
I decided to give them (twi), another try, and went back in the mid 90's.
Although it was still called twi --- It was an ENTIRELY different org by that time.
I lasted for about 1 1/2 months, before realizing that insanity was rampant.
The things *leader$$HH!!t were demanding (and getting with NO COMPLAINTS) boggled my mind.
I saw zombies where before I had seen believers, and that was then.
I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like today.
I for one am prepared to believe this story.
Twi has a history of taking people's *gray matter*,
Wow Egilkent! And this is only the first of your stories? I can't wait to hear the other ones! But there's a couple of things I don't understand. You said:
I was a TC overseer. For several years.
Is that a twig coordinator overseer? What is that? Like a twig area coordinator?
There were often 30 or 40 people "Fellowshipping" at my home, and that meant little, because the "Word was not moving", and little new money flowed into the PFAL program.
Weren't they splitting twigs anymore? While I was in, 30 to 40 people would have been at least two, if not three twigs.
I thought TWI was crazy when I left! It became ridiculous! Sorry you had to go through that.
Java Jane said:
If they did act on their own without leadership then they were claiming to be spiritually mature and not needing the help of the leadership, which would be prideful, which could cause you to be MA.
This explains so much to me. No wonder people would never speak up or do anything to make waves.
Thank you all reading this post. It does seem absurd, but the story is essentialy true, and give or take the errors in memory from 20 years ago, true in its entirety. After the event "blew over" it was determined that a good housecleaning was in order. I did manage to stow away 3 cases of books in the attic crawlspace. These were not discovered until it was time to move when I loaded them into the U-haul, nearly a year later.
one of the books was an icelandic saga, "Egils Saga" and i have adopted the pen name ever since. (I was studying history at the time and I enjoyed reading some of these tales, particulary the sagas involving the "conversion" of Iceland to Christianity at the time of Olaf Tryggvasson (St. Olaf).
Olaf sent a missionary to Iceland,Thangbrand, who, armed with an Iron Cross, challenged a feared Berserker to combat and killed him, when the Beserkers sword stuck in the ceiling rafters...
In hindsight it is clear to me that often superstition and hysteria were behind many of the debbil spieerits and many of the "Will of God" events I witnessed and took part in. There is no joy in admitting that the new clothes purchased from the emperors tailer were threadbare. Thus it is easy to dismiss a new person from seeing the wardrobe selection until their "eyes" had been properly trained to see the finery of the details... And it is easy to see how the testimony of fears of a child can be believed by unwitting and superstitious adults.
Again, thanks for the reading. It is not easy to look into the mirror and laugh at the foolishness and fearful mistakes of the past, but I am trying...
It is rather comical, is it not?
Egilkent
Wow Egilkent! And this is only the first of your stories? I can't wait to hear the other ones! But there's a couple of things I don't understand. You said:
Is that a twig coordinator overseer? What is that? Like a twig area coordinator? (I meant to use "" marks arount the term overseer. I was never more than a twig coordinator)
Weren't they splitting twigs anymore? While I was in, 30 to 40 people would have been at least two, if not three twigs. (Many were children, and depending on schedule it was not uncommon to have 10 kids)
I thought TWI was crazy when I left! It became ridiculous! Sorry you had to go through that.
Java Jane said:
This explains so much to me. No wonder people would never speak up or do anything to make waves.
Egilkent,
I'm not exactly calling you a liar but I don't believe the story as told. Even TWI adherents aren't that stupid.
<center>sudo</center>
Don't blame you at all. It is much to my chagrin and embarrassment that I did not behave differently, or that i would allow people such a reign in my garage. When established leaders were involved, it all blew over...
Again, thanks for the reading. It is not easy to look into the mirror and laugh at the foolishness and fearful mistakes of the past, but I am trying...
For what it's worth Sudo -- I left about the same time you did.
I decided to give them (twi), another try, and went back in the mid 90's.
Although it was still called twi --- It was an ENTIRELY different org by that time.
for what it's worth.. I'll agree. I and then family were isolated out in pretty much the country before the mid nineties. I dealt with pretty much a few level headed and logical people before this.. but we were "brought in" and I found the leadership to be NUTS.
I almost couldn't believe it. It was supposed to be God's ministry, but I found myself dealing with uneducated lunatics.
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hiway29
I laughed and I cried.
That sorry tale so typified the 12 years I was in it's almost scary, except back then you wouldn't have to go 1800 miles to find and advanced class grad !
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rascal
Wow, that is some story. So very typical.
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coolchef
unbelieveable
but
i believe it
what idiots they were/are
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Ham
Makes you wonder what they would do if a REAL spirit came knocking on their door..
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Bolshevik
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JavaJane
Love it!! (And yet hate it at the same time!)
My books were gone through as well - and a lot of good ones got the torch - ones I wish I had now.
What a waste! You could have used that book on witches so you could see the witch-hunt they were on a little bit clearer!
INSANITY!!
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excathedra
this account is crazy
and i know crazy
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JavaJane
Read it to my husband and he laughed and laughed and eloquently put it "that's frucked up!"
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Sudo
Egilkent,
I'm not exactly calling you a liar but I don't believe the story as told. Even TWI adherents aren't that stupid.
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waysider
It made me think of the old "rocky & bullwinkle show".
Bullwinkle(the moose) announces, while wearing a turbin,
"Heany peany, chile beany. The spirits are about to speak."
At which point Rocky(the squirrel) queries,
"Are they friendly spirits?"
:)
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Ham
I dunno. My last limb coordinator turned region coordinator thought he could run his car on water..
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hiway29
sudo-oh yes they are.
From my own sordid history in the way, to the hundreds of horror stories related in here, it sadly seems all too credible.
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Bolshevik
Sudo,
I can believe it.
Debil spurts were a part of my life growing up.
Standing Revs in twi still speak under their breath about receiving rev from G-O-D. i.e ("yes, I hear you father.") and casting out spirits
weird twi is.
weird.
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Ham
Maybe you weren't exposed to the leadership loy sent out in the second half of the 1990's..
The limb guy here was, well.. not much smarter than a brick..
I think part of his corps "training" included huffing not less than a certain prescribed amount of airplane glue.. that would at least explain a few things.
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Sudo
Hiway29,
Re:"sudo-oh yes they are.
From my own sordid history in the way, to the hundreds of horror stories related in here, it sadly seems all too credible."
So when did these guys get so stupid? I left around '87 and most folks in TWI then seemed to be at least of sound mind if not a little deluded. Let me get this straight.. a little girl comes in yelling that there are spirits in the garage and EVERYONE doesn't go out to see what the heck is up in the garage? Hmmmm..
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JavaJane
They probably didn't run out because at that point they were being taught that you had to have revelation from God in order to cast out spirits...
Now this story may sound a little bit strange for you, but it is TRUE... Here's an example:
I was living and working in a resort area at one point in my life... went to sleep in my room, woke up to noises coming from the kitchen/bar area of the resort (bar closes at 2:00, this was 3:00am.) I sat up in bed, just as my dresser flew across my room and fell over onto my bed - it missed me, thank God. The noises from downstairs stopped, and I sat awake in my bed for the rest of the night scared out of my mind praying and SITing.
Called the leadership the next day, and they told me to move. I did as they asked (I was pretty new at the time, only a foundational class grad) and wondered to myself, "if they are so spiritual and powerful like the class says and like people treat them, then why don't they come over here and get RID of the thing - this is my room, and I want to keep it!)
Instead, I moved into a nasty cabin with no plumbing so I could continue to work there. I couln't stand it, so I quit the job and moved completely.
People became afraid of the debil spitits, because they never knew for sure that they were in fellowship or not, and therefore weren't sure if He would back them up in any situation. These leaders NEVER EVEN CAME UP TO THE PLACE TO COMFORT ME!
Ridiculous.
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Bolshevik
1. Motivation in the ministry was generally based on fear of death or other "attack of the Adversary".
2. Devils spirits were used to explain damn near everything in life.
3. Only leadership had developed the believing to cast the spirits out, the rest of us were still on "milk", aspiring to be like them.
4. Discerning of Spirits is a sign of maturity.
5. Critical thinking, or simple logic even, is considered devilish in twi. You believe what leadership tells you. You apply their previous reasoning to new situations.
6. This was the ministry that convinced its followers that twi saved the world from the wrath of Y2K
7. Even if I'm told that this story was made up, I'll still believe something just like it did happen, and more than once.
8. Nobody moved, because they were all lemmings, leadership didn't even need to be present.
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JavaJane
I'd like to add something, Mr. B...
If they did act on their own without leadership then they were claiming to be spiritually mature and not needing the help of the leadership, which would be prideful, which could cause you to be MA.
Not a good place to be.
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dmiller
For what it's worth Sudo -- I left about the same time you did.
I decided to give them (twi), another try, and went back in the mid 90's.
Although it was still called twi --- It was an ENTIRELY different org by that time.
I lasted for about 1 1/2 months, before realizing that insanity was rampant.
The things *leader$$HH!!t were demanding (and getting with NO COMPLAINTS) boggled my mind.
I saw zombies where before I had seen believers, and that was then.
I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like today.
I for one am prepared to believe this story.
Twi has a history of taking people's *gray matter*,
and turning it into *mush*.
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nyunknown
Sounds to me like thw spirt od VPW had retured and is now haunting oooooooooooooooooooh!
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VeganXTC
Wow Egilkent! And this is only the first of your stories? I can't wait to hear the other ones! But there's a couple of things I don't understand. You said:
Is that a twig coordinator overseer? What is that? Like a twig area coordinator?Weren't they splitting twigs anymore? While I was in, 30 to 40 people would have been at least two, if not three twigs.
I thought TWI was crazy when I left! It became ridiculous! Sorry you had to go through that.
Java Jane said:
This explains so much to me. No wonder people would never speak up or do anything to make waves.
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egilkent
Thank you all reading this post. It does seem absurd, but the story is essentialy true, and give or take the errors in memory from 20 years ago, true in its entirety. After the event "blew over" it was determined that a good housecleaning was in order. I did manage to stow away 3 cases of books in the attic crawlspace. These were not discovered until it was time to move when I loaded them into the U-haul, nearly a year later.
one of the books was an icelandic saga, "Egils Saga" and i have adopted the pen name ever since. (I was studying history at the time and I enjoyed reading some of these tales, particulary the sagas involving the "conversion" of Iceland to Christianity at the time of Olaf Tryggvasson (St. Olaf).
Olaf sent a missionary to Iceland,Thangbrand, who, armed with an Iron Cross, challenged a feared Berserker to combat and killed him, when the Beserkers sword stuck in the ceiling rafters...
In hindsight it is clear to me that often superstition and hysteria were behind many of the debbil spieerits and many of the "Will of God" events I witnessed and took part in. There is no joy in admitting that the new clothes purchased from the emperors tailer were threadbare. Thus it is easy to dismiss a new person from seeing the wardrobe selection until their "eyes" had been properly trained to see the finery of the details... And it is easy to see how the testimony of fears of a child can be believed by unwitting and superstitious adults.
Again, thanks for the reading. It is not easy to look into the mirror and laugh at the foolishness and fearful mistakes of the past, but I am trying...
It is rather comical, is it not?
Egilkent
Don't blame you at all. It is much to my chagrin and embarrassment that I did not behave differently, or that i would allow people such a reign in my garage. When established leaders were involved, it all blew over...
Egilkent
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excathedra
me too
me too
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Ham
for what it's worth.. I'll agree. I and then family were isolated out in pretty much the country before the mid nineties. I dealt with pretty much a few level headed and logical people before this.. but we were "brought in" and I found the leadership to be NUTS.
I almost couldn't believe it. It was supposed to be God's ministry, but I found myself dealing with uneducated lunatics.
Edited by Mr. HammeroniLink to comment
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