I agree that the top people knew it was a sham...but I also believe that the vast majority of the rank and file were sincere Christians who wanted to do the right thing.
I think that the reason Wierwille wanted a waycorp was to indoctrinate enough people who would be dedicated to making money for the organization. Volunteers didn't cut it...he needed people who were totally sold out to his cause and wouldn't waver.
I'm from the Amen crowd! I believe VPW knew he was starting a scam. He loved being the MOG. Rhoda told me so.BTW, Welcome Watrix. I'm glad you could join us.Hope you like a good cappucino. As the self-appointed head waitress, I have to make sure your first cup at the cafe is good!
The Way Corps was put in place as a layer of insulation for VPW to protect his power base. The power of VPW was in the accuracy and integrity of the word God gave him by revelation… "You teach it to others and I (God) will teach it to you like hasn't been heard since the 1st century". This has been proven many times to be a farce.
As long as that word was protected VPW was the MOG. The corps provided that layer of protection. They were the enforcers. Don't dare question VPW's word or the Corps will take care of you… haste la vista baby. The same goes for TWI because VPW and TWI are one in the same. That is why TWI will never work with out VPW.
Part of the word the Corps enforced was that "the women belong to the king" doctrine and we know the purpose of that doctrine. VPW and other leaders benefited from it. VPW was the king and corps his army.
I would agree that the top leaders were well aware of this arrangement and tried to use it to their benefit as well.
Wecome, waytrix... Your avatar is one scary scary picture!!
As for the WC and their purpose... What more could a MOG want than people who were willing to sign their name on the line, tell them all their secrets, put money in his pocket, women in his bed, organize expensive collections for gifts among the flock, risk their lives, make sure every little stupid want was catered to...
....AS A LIFETIME COMMITTMENT....
To serving him in place of God?
And all the while, many (I would say most) of them thought they were serving God.
Why the Way Corps? Many many reasons... The least of which was to stroke his ego (and some other things, if you were pretty enough.)
There are a lot of really terrific people at GSC who are of the opinion that VPW had good intentions initially but became corrupt.
I respect that.
They may be right.
Personally, though, I think VP was running a scam from the very beginning.
That's my opinion.
I could be wrong.
There were lots of warning signs along the way that I only see clearly as I now look at it all in retrospect.
One of those signs was an event during which I believe God let me know in no uncertain terms that something was very wrong with "the good doctor" 's modus operandi.
It was no "small, still voice".
It was graphic and startling. I didn't know what to make of it at the time.
It's taken me over 35 years to start to understand it.
I have posted on it before.
Well, that's my opinion& you know what they say about opinions------------
"Opinions are like butt cracks----everybody has one."
One of those signs was an event during which I believe God let me know in no uncertain terms that something was very wrong with "the good doctor" 's modus operandi.
It was no "small, still voice".
It was graphic and startling. I didn't know what to make of it at the time.
It's taken me over 35 years to start to understand it.
WE NEVER MOVED THE WORD! We moved a class that was stolen from other men. We were taught to use people. Not that everyone learned the lesson well - but here was the basic gist of what was the real message we were given:
If they didn't want the class - forget them.
If they took the class but didn't want to come to twig - forget them.
If they came to twig but didn't take the next class or go to the next advance - forget them.
The real point? World Domination! ;) - errrrrr... I mean "World over the World"
Spiritual Hitchhiking Or Carjacking? thread----July 19, 2006
This is my first reference.(There are others also)
O.K. I hope I don't derail but sometimes we old folks get lost in the moment. Back in about '71 or '72 I got witnessed to by some kids who seemed pretty excited about twig fellowship. I went to a couple of fellowships and was really blown away by SIT.(o.k. ,one of the young ladies caught my eye but that's another story). After 2 or 3 twig meetings I decided to try this SIT stuff myself. Nobody told me you had to have a class so I just went ahead and did it. Next day I tell the TL about it. HE gives me a "lift list" and a WAY MAG. This sounds remotely like my vasectomy experience but again I digress.First up, Joe B. Leever needs a car. I envision him driving a shiny new Caddy and SIT. Wow, this is easy! Next, I envision this "DR." from the WAY RAG as he stands behind a podium about to expound,but just then he grins from ear to ear, flips me the bird and mouths those two little words we all know too well.( I kid you not this really happened). My TL says it's probably just un-renewed mind and to strive to block it out. In retrospect, I wonder if that middle finger wasn't really his thumb and those words really "Goin' my WAY?"
I'm from the Amen crowd! I believe VPW knew he was starting a scam. He loved being the MOG. Rhoda told me so.
BTW, Welcome Watrix. I'm glad you could join us.
Hope you like a good cappucino. As the self-appointed head waitress, I have to make sure your first cup at the cafe is good!
Thanks Notta... 'twas a fine cuppa. Could I just get a warm-up and another Biscotti when you get a sec.
HERE'S ANOTHER ONE: Do you think they (VPW & Pals in this case) were actually very consciously trying to create an environment of fear by focusing so heavily on possession? I mean that crap was woven in pretty heavily long before I started hearing that I would turn into the wonderful greasespot that I am now right? DTA was very pre-lcm...
And just to be certain that we never felt like we could catch a break.... do you remember when we got a news flash from the research lab in basement 3 deep below the BRC....
Attention Believers: This just in: YOU CAN'T DEFEAT THE ADVERSARY IN YOUR LIFE... WE WERE WRONG ABOUT THAT... FROM HERE ON OUT, YOU'LL SIMPLY HAVE TO DEAL WITH HIM!
I actually confessed to my branch co-ordinator once that I figured that if I left twi, I would endup in prison, and a homosexual... I am proud to say, that I am married with two kids, and no.... we didn't have to adopt!
Come on WHAT ELSE was serving a dual purpose?
We all finally know what that damned RV was all about!
HERE'S ANOTHER ONE: Do you think they (VPW & Pals in this case) were actually very consciously trying to create an environment of fear by focusing so heavily on possession? I mean that crap was woven in pretty heavily long before I started hearing that I would turn into the wonderful greasespot that I am now right? DTA was very pre-lcm...
Welcome Waytrix (love the Avatar)
It is common practice for cults to use debil sprits as a fear factor. They use them as a duel or triple purpose, to keep people in line for fear of being possessed or slapped down and as an empowerment factor. For those that are "following the rules" or the elite in the organization, like the Advanced class grads or Way Corps these "special" people can see, identify and cast out debils because they are more spiritual than everyone else. Don't you want to be just like 'em?
Notta! What are you thinking woman? You drop a bomb like that and don't tell the rest of the story...shame on you. Now be a good waitress and refill everyones coffee, bring a plate of danish and sit down. Now tell the rest of the story. :D
Woo Hoo! Do you see that? The big 50...0 post! Sneeking up on Exie!
Next, I envision this "DR." from the WAY RAG as he stands behind a podium about to expound,but just then he grins from ear to ear, flips me the bird and mouths those two little words we all know too well.( I kid you not this really happened).
now THAT is what i call heavy revvy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's not a huge story because she would talk freely and I was uncomfortable because it was considered negative. I used to each lunch out with Rhoda on a lot of Sundays. She used to tell me things from the past that used to tick her off. At the time, I would NEVER repeat the things she said because it made me uncomfortable. She said VPW used to practice his teachings in the woods and that he always wanted to have a large ministry. She said he used to tick her off a lot. And she would especially get mad at VPW and Harry about finances. She said she used to be afraid of their business practices because of the quesionable leagality of them and expressed her frustration at them. But they didn't listen to her. I was afraid to ask more details as a good little wayfer back then. I just let her talk. I nevrr intended to tell anyone. But now that I'm out, I wished I would have asked more questions. It's been a while, so I will have to think back to see if I remember more specifics. When I do, I will let you guys know.
She express that she saw egotism in his teaching and in his desire to have a large ministry. Remember, she started at the evangelical church as his secretary. I wish I would have asked her why she stayed around. She only indicated she was impressed by his teaching. I know someone esle shared awhile back that it was common knowledge that she was sleeping with him. I will try to find that thread.
It's not a huge story because she would talk freely and I was uncomfortable because it was considered negative. I used to each lunch out with Rhoda on a lot of Sundays. She used to tell me things from the past that used to tick her off. At the time, I would NEVER repeat the things she said because it made me uncomfortable. She said VPW used to practice his teachings in the woods and that he always wanted to have a large ministry. She said he used to tick her off a lot. And she would especially get mad at VPW and Harry about finances. She said she used to be afraid of their business practices because of the quesionable leagality of them and expressed her frustration at them. But they didn't listen to her. I was afraid to ask more details as a good little wayfer back then. I just let her talk. I nevrr intended to tell anyone. But now that I'm out, I wished I would have asked more questions. It's been a while, so I will have to think back to see if I remember more specifics. When I do, I will let you guys know.
Well my coffee mug is full now and I'm happily stuffing my mouth with danish so you can think as long as both hold out...well maybe a bit longer. It's very interesting.
Well my coffee mug is full now and I'm happily stuffing my mouth with danish so you can think as long as both hold out...well maybe a bit longer. It's very interesting.
You know you look very familiar somehow? Do you hangout in Paris, maybe in the Louvre??
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GrouchoMarxJr
I agree that the top people knew it was a sham...but I also believe that the vast majority of the rank and file were sincere Christians who wanted to do the right thing.
I think that the reason Wierwille wanted a waycorp was to indoctrinate enough people who would be dedicated to making money for the organization. Volunteers didn't cut it...he needed people who were totally sold out to his cause and wouldn't waver.
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Nottawayfer
I'm from the Amen crowd! I believe VPW knew he was starting a scam. He loved being the MOG. Rhoda told me so.BTW, Welcome Watrix. I'm glad you could join us.Hope you like a good cappucino. As the self-appointed head waitress, I have to make sure your first cup at the cafe is good!
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MountainTopCO
The Way Corps was put in place as a layer of insulation for VPW to protect his power base. The power of VPW was in the accuracy and integrity of the word God gave him by revelation… "You teach it to others and I (God) will teach it to you like hasn't been heard since the 1st century". This has been proven many times to be a farce.
As long as that word was protected VPW was the MOG. The corps provided that layer of protection. They were the enforcers. Don't dare question VPW's word or the Corps will take care of you… haste la vista baby. The same goes for TWI because VPW and TWI are one in the same. That is why TWI will never work with out VPW.
Part of the word the Corps enforced was that "the women belong to the king" doctrine and we know the purpose of that doctrine. VPW and other leaders benefited from it. VPW was the king and corps his army.
I would agree that the top leaders were well aware of this arrangement and tried to use it to their benefit as well.
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excathedra
and of course the thing you said about the king
boy, i didn't realize at the time i need protection from veepee
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JavaJane
Wecome, waytrix... Your avatar is one scary scary picture!!
As for the WC and their purpose... What more could a MOG want than people who were willing to sign their name on the line, tell them all their secrets, put money in his pocket, women in his bed, organize expensive collections for gifts among the flock, risk their lives, make sure every little stupid want was catered to...
....AS A LIFETIME COMMITTMENT....
To serving him in place of God?
And all the while, many (I would say most) of them thought they were serving God.
Why the Way Corps? Many many reasons... The least of which was to stroke his ego (and some other things, if you were pretty enough.)
Yuck.
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Raf
That avatar is AWESOME!
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waysider
There are a lot of really terrific people at GSC who are of the opinion that VPW had good intentions initially but became corrupt.
I respect that.
They may be right.
Personally, though, I think VP was running a scam from the very beginning.
That's my opinion.
I could be wrong.
There were lots of warning signs along the way that I only see clearly as I now look at it all in retrospect.
One of those signs was an event during which I believe God let me know in no uncertain terms that something was very wrong with "the good doctor" 's modus operandi.
It was no "small, still voice".
It was graphic and startling. I didn't know what to make of it at the time.
It's taken me over 35 years to start to understand it.
I have posted on it before.
Well, that's my opinion& you know what they say about opinions------------
"Opinions are like butt cracks----everybody has one."
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excathedra
where, please ?
--
and yes waytrix's avatar is awesome !!!!!!!
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doojable
WE NEVER MOVED THE WORD! We moved a class that was stolen from other men. We were taught to use people. Not that everyone learned the lesson well - but here was the basic gist of what was the real message we were given:
If they didn't want the class - forget them.
If they took the class but didn't want to come to twig - forget them.
If they came to twig but didn't take the next class or go to the next advance - forget them.
The real point? World Domination! ;) - errrrrr... I mean "World over the World"
Edited by doojableLink to comment
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waysider
Spiritual Hitchhiking Or Carjacking? thread----July 19, 2006
This is my first reference.(There are others also)
O.K. I hope I don't derail but sometimes we old folks get lost in the moment. Back in about '71 or '72 I got witnessed to by some kids who seemed pretty excited about twig fellowship. I went to a couple of fellowships and was really blown away by SIT.(o.k. ,one of the young ladies caught my eye but that's another story). After 2 or 3 twig meetings I decided to try this SIT stuff myself. Nobody told me you had to have a class so I just went ahead and did it. Next day I tell the TL about it. HE gives me a "lift list" and a WAY MAG. This sounds remotely like my vasectomy experience but again I digress.First up, Joe B. Leever needs a car. I envision him driving a shiny new Caddy and SIT. Wow, this is easy! Next, I envision this "DR." from the WAY RAG as he stands behind a podium about to expound,but just then he grins from ear to ear, flips me the bird and mouths those two little words we all know too well.( I kid you not this really happened). My TL says it's probably just un-renewed mind and to strive to block it out. In retrospect, I wonder if that middle finger wasn't really his thumb and those words really "Goin' my WAY?"
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waytrix survivor
Thanks Notta... 'twas a fine cuppa. Could I just get a warm-up and another Biscotti when you get a sec.
HERE'S ANOTHER ONE: Do you think they (VPW & Pals in this case) were actually very consciously trying to create an environment of fear by focusing so heavily on possession? I mean that crap was woven in pretty heavily long before I started hearing that I would turn into the wonderful greasespot that I am now right?
DTA was very pre-lcm...
And just to be certain that we never felt like we could catch a break.... do you remember when we got a news flash from the research lab in basement 3 deep below the BRC....
Attention Believers: This just in: YOU CAN'T DEFEAT THE ADVERSARY IN YOUR LIFE... WE WERE WRONG ABOUT THAT... FROM HERE ON OUT, YOU'LL SIMPLY HAVE TO DEAL WITH HIM!
I actually confessed to my branch co-ordinator once that I figured that if I left twi, I would endup in prison, and a homosexual... I am proud to say, that I am married with two kids, and no.... we didn't have to adopt!
Come on WHAT ELSE was serving a dual purpose?
We all finally know what that damned RV was all about!
Anybody got any other REAL reasons?
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Mark Clarke
Interesting... Could you elaborate on that?
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WordWolf
I'd appreciate a bit more on that as well...
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Eyesopen
Welcome Waytrix (love the Avatar)
It is common practice for cults to use debil sprits as a fear factor. They use them as a duel or triple purpose, to keep people in line for fear of being possessed or slapped down and as an empowerment factor. For those that are "following the rules" or the elite in the organization, like the Advanced class grads or Way Corps these "special" people can see, identify and cast out debils because they are more spiritual than everyone else. Don't you want to be just like 'em?
Notta! What are you thinking woman? You drop a bomb like that and don't tell the rest of the story...shame on you. Now be a good waitress and refill everyones coffee, bring a plate of danish and sit down. Now tell the rest of the story. :D
Woo Hoo! Do you see that? The big 50...0 post! Sneeking up on Exie!
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excathedra
now THAT is what i call heavy revvy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Nottawayfer
It's not a huge story because she would talk freely and I was uncomfortable because it was considered negative. I used to each lunch out with Rhoda on a lot of Sundays. She used to tell me things from the past that used to tick her off. At the time, I would NEVER repeat the things she said because it made me uncomfortable. She said VPW used to practice his teachings in the woods and that he always wanted to have a large ministry. She said he used to tick her off a lot. And she would especially get mad at VPW and Harry about finances. She said she used to be afraid of their business practices because of the quesionable leagality of them and expressed her frustration at them. But they didn't listen to her. I was afraid to ask more details as a good little wayfer back then. I just let her talk. I nevrr intended to tell anyone. But now that I'm out, I wished I would have asked more questions. It's been a while, so I will have to think back to see if I remember more specifics. When I do, I will let you guys know.
She express that she saw egotism in his teaching and in his desire to have a large ministry. Remember, she started at the evangelical church as his secretary. I wish I would have asked her why she stayed around. She only indicated she was impressed by his teaching. I know someone esle shared awhile back that it was common knowledge that she was sleeping with him. I will try to find that thread.
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Eyesopen
Well my coffee mug is full now and I'm happily stuffing my mouth with danish so you can think as long as both hold out...well maybe a bit longer. It's very interesting.
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Bumpy
You know you look very familiar somehow? Do you hangout in Paris, maybe in the Louvre??
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Eyesopen
I generally try not to "hang" out but upon occassion the shirt doesn't quite fit right...well things just happen...
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Bumpy
Maybe I should have been hanging out more with you spiritual "heavies" at HQ, or Emporia?? I always "felt" I was missing something
!
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Eyesopen
There are some things that are better off missed...
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Bumpy
Too Bad <_<
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Eyesopen
hahaha...you are adorable! :P
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