When I read through accounts from threads like A few big things I learned in PFAL.......where one elevates the man, vpw, and "his doctrine".....
What part of PFAL "elevates the man, vpw, and "his doctrine"?
Yeah......I learned some good things in pfal.
Yeah......at the time, I swallowed its whole -- hook, line and sinker. Young and naive and rebellious, I found a group that had a bigger-than-life zeal to "go and grow with God." And, I fully invested years (decades) into teaching and ministering to others in the valleys of life. Little did I realize that wierwille and his cronies were deceivers and being deceived.
Who was deceiving who?
Here you were. setting yourself out to minister others "in the valley of life" when you were not in it to serve God and His people, but because you were a joiner who wanted to be in the right club!
And now it looks as if you can't take personal; responsibility for your own false motives, naivete and elevating a man in a way that was uncalled for.
Who was deceiving who? Let's see........just to name a few.
1) Wierwille prefaced this class with statements like....."God told me that He'd teach me things that hadn't been known since the first centiry church if I'd teach them to others." Even Mrs. Wierwille, in her book entitled Born Again to Serve which was published in 1996, states that vpw was THRILLED after taking BG Leonard's class in 1953.....the same year wierwille "decided" to incorporate twi. What a coincidence.
Don't know about you......but I'd call THAT deceiving.
2) "All the women in the kingdom BELONG to the king".......Really??? No biblical substantiation, no basis of truth....just a little "micky" slipped in there for later.
Don't know about you......but I'd call THAT deceitful.
After "planting this devilish seed" a whole mushroom culture of sexual exploitation and predation wherein the mog is the beneficiary of that evil doctrine. I'd call that deceiving.
3) "The Word takes the place of the absent Christ." Huh???????????????????????
How is it that Jesus Christ appeared to the Apostle Paul? How is it that the Age of Grace documents others who see or receive revelation FROM Jesus Christ? What about Stephen as he see Jesus STANDING....as Stephen endures persecution and death?
4) "You know what killed that little boy. You just quit your yakking. It was the FEAR in the heart and life of that mother that killed her little boy." One of the GREAT twistings of wierwille's "law of believing" to instill fear motivation and leverage his power and influence over his flock.
And, yeah.......I think that I've become more SPIRITUALLY ACUTE to recognize this indoctrination and twisting of the Scriptures.
How many more do you want, Deciderator?
Should we talk about victor paul wierwille's MANNER OF LIFE now?
Let's see.....58 year old GROPING GRANDPA wierwille was drugging and raping girls in his motorcoach and taught his inner cirls of men his exploits.
Wierwille lashed out viciously, time and time again, intimidating and silencing his critics. Even men like JAL, Dubofxxx, and others YEARS LATER had the fortitude and courage to stand up and fess up. And Martindale was groomed in wierwille's image and more so......become at least two-fold the groper and womanizer that wierwille was.
Wierwille "on his deathbed" wished he'd lived differently........how so? Because the guy KNEW his plundering of women, the deceptions, the lies, etc. etc. I have no doubts that wierwille was sorta apologizing or patronizing in his arrogant fashion once again.
Wierwille's Ambassador One pilot abandoned wierwille and twi.....hmmmm?
Wierwille's bodyguards and valets abandoned wierwille and twi.....hmmmm?
Wierwille's trunk coordinators....HOW MANY?? ... 5 or 6 or 7....all abandoned twi.....hmmmm.
Having been around Waydale and GS for eight years......it seems, vpw-defenders always take this same posturing and stance:
1) Wierwille's doctrine (most notably, in pfal)......look at ALL the good it did?
OR
2) Wierwille's doctrine and his teachings.............what a faithful man????
BUT, what they disregard or flat-out deny is.....
3) What about wierwille's MANNER OF LIFE off-stage and in the motorcoach-mania phase? The Scriptures do NOT extend this sort of compartmentalizing of one's life. It runs at cross-purposes with all kinds of scriptures that highlight "that Christ be formed in you" and not just "a form of godliness."
Side-stepping these issues is deceiving and being deceived.
Conduct cannot be seperated from a man's ministry unless there is repentance and CHANGE
Now, there have been more than 3 witnesses in TWI. What VP divised was brilliant. If you get people to embrace the same sin as you, then they are not going to corrct you. Most or at least a large part that I know of, who were ordained were already in the inner circle.
So, gee I confronted VP, I went to JAL to report the conduct, but he condoned it, I went to Micheal Fort, but he condoned it, I went to Christph Stoop and never really heard back on that one, I went to two female ministers I later found WERE servicing VPW. Then, my three limb leaders under whom I served -- were all involved.... BTW, Craig came to me and told me the reason I did not get in the 10th corps was because I did not know how to keep my mouth shut. About what you ask? About the sex the leaders were having on the field with young girls. He told me to keep my mouth shut. I went in the 11th ready to expose them all --- got to VP and he was the person teaching them...
So, what a way to save yourself from impeachment! Involve everyone in the crime!!!
So, who do you go to? You report it -- they are involved -- they get together and decide YOU can't handle it and tell you crazythings like you are possessed.
So, although this is great Bilbe, in the case of TWI the only choice was to leave
This works in a real church maybe -
1Ti 5:19 Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses.
1Ti 5:20 Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning.
1Ti 5:21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality.
Or this
Deu 19:15 “A single witness shall not rise up against a man on account of any iniquity or any sin which he has committed; on the evidence of two or three witnesses a matter shall be confirmed.
Deu 19:16 “If a malicious witness rises up against a man to accuse him of wrongdoing,
Deu 19:17 then both the men who have the dispute shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges who will be in office in those days.
Deu 19:18 “The judges shall investigate thoroughly, and if the witness is a false witness and he has accused his brother falsely,
Deu 19:19 then you shall do to him just as he had intended to do to his brother. Thus you shall purge the evil from among you.
Deu 19:20 “The rest will hear and be afraid, and will never again do such an evil thing among you.
Deu 19:21 “Thus you shall not show pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
IMO
I contend he was NOT a good man that went bad. It was too organized with evil and protection of evil to have ever been good.
These were baby snatchers.
We got born-again then snatched into a demeaning community who minimized Jesus and manimized devil spirtis.
Where you had the new birth may always be precious to you. May I suggest that had we been born again elsewhere we may have gone further, you were called before the foundations - you would have been bor-again with or without TWI. If we had been born-again, say in Leonard's class, perhaps we would have gone further. Than, 30 years later be arguing here.
Conduct cannot be seperated from a man's ministry unless there is repentance and CHANGE
Now, there have been more than 3 witnesses in TWI. What VP divised was brilliant. If you get people to embrace the same sin as you, then they are not going to corrct you. Most or at least a large part that I know of, who were ordained were already in the inner circle.
So, gee I confronted VP, I went to JAL to report the conduct, but he condoned it, I went to Micheal Fort, but he condoned it, I went to Christph Stoop and never really heard back on that one, I went to two female ministers I later found WERE servicing VPW. Then, my three limb leaders under whom I served -- were all involved.... BTW, Craig came to me and told me the reason I did not get in the 10th corps was because I did not know how to keep my mouth shut. About what you ask? About the sex the leaders were having on the field with young girls. He told me to keep my mouth shut. I went in the 11th ready to expose them all --- got to VP and he was the person teaching them...
So, what a way to save yourself from impeachment! Involve everyone in the crime!!!
Absolutely..!!!
If CONDUCT is unimportant..........WHY is there an couple of epistles to the Corinthian Church that targets the conduct, the defiling, the need for change, repentance and godly sorrow..???
If wierwille's "sexual prowess" was no big deal......WHY didn't he teach it in CFS? Why didn't he teach all the corps men this standard of "ministering to the women in your areas."?????
But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity patience...
I don't ever remember veepee or craig digging out the Numbers in Scripture for this verse......like they did over and over again for so many OTHER things. Could it be that this just didn't work to their favor????? Or, more to the point.....their agenda?
Man, it's been awhile.......but if they HAD done it, wouldn't it look something like this AND one's manner of life either establishes or divides one from THE DOCTRINE?
And, lest we forget..........martindale went on the longest speil documenting all the things that aligned with him being the SECOND president of twi.
.....those TWO are for you, craig.
Doctrine.................... #1 = unity / truth
Manner of life............ #2 = establishes / divides
Purpose.................... #3 = completeness
Faith......................... #4 = number for the world
I started reading this thread with a giant yawn. It didn't take long to see your brilliant insight into another aspect of Wierwilleian deception. Thanks.
VP's "manner of life" thoroughly, and yes, throughly ;) disqualified him from being any kind of "minister," much less a teacher.
Ok, we all know the "qualifications of a leader" from I Timothy 3.
Geeze, I wonder why God had Paul write those things?
Could it be that when a sexual deviant of the alcoholic type (or anyone else of questionable character) becomes a "minister," he/she teaches other "ministers" to become what they themselves are?
VP's "manner of life" thoroughly, and yes, throughly ;) disqualified him from being any kind of "minister," much less a teacher.
Ok, we all know the "qualifications of a leader" from I Timothy 3.
Geeze, I wonder why God had Paul write those things?
Could it be that when a sexual deviant of the alcoholic type (or anyone else of questionable character) becomes a "minister," he/she teaches other "ministers" to become what they themselves are?
So true, ex10.
Gee.....the motorcoach aided his immoral and predatory behavior that was HIDDEN from view.
Gee.....the coffee AND drambuie assisted his alcoholic nature. The drambuie bottles were HIDDEN from view, yet even wierwille mentioned it a few times late at night when he taught the corps. Uuuugh.
I think it is perfectly acceptable for one's actions on- stage to be at the opposite end of the spectrum off- stage.
If they happen to be an actor!!!
And---------- The audience knows it is not viewing reality.
Absolutely..!!!
If CONDUCT is unimportant..........WHY is there an couple of epistles to the Corinthian Church that targets the conduct, the defiling, the need for change, repentance and godly sorrow..???
If wierwille's "sexual prowess" was no big deal......WHY didn't he teach it in CFS? Why didn't he teach all the corps men this standard of "ministering to the women in your areas."?????
HIDDEN THINGS OF DARKNESS.............that's why.
Absolutely!! (to both skyrider and waysider).
I'm guessing that a *man of the cloth* who WAS being an actor,
would be expected to operate on stage one way, and off stage another.
Which (imo) would negate anything and everything taught from the pulpit.
What's that saying?? I'd like to SEE a sermon rather than HEAR a sermon
(or something like that), but it certainly makes the point.
Skyrider, you made an EXCELLENT point when you said ---
If wierwille's "sexual prowess" was no big deal......WHY didn't he teach it in CFS? Why didn't he teach all the corps men this standard of "ministering to the women in your areas."?????
HIDDEN THINGS OF DARKNESS.............that's why.
That he would *teach* this to a select few, and NOT the general masses, speaks volumes.
And were he to try to *teach* this to the masses -- he'd be out on his @$$ in NO time flat.
It had to be kept *quiet*. Hidden things of Darkness have NO fellowship with Light.
Which leads me to think of Billy Graham, and his ministry.
It's a well known FACT that Billy Graham would NEVER counsel a woman
without AT LEAST one other person in the room.
He makes it a point to NEVER be alone in ANY room with a woman alone.
He would NOT EVEN get into an elevator if he saw only one woman in there.
He's made sure that wheverever he might be -- he could be ACCOUNTABLE for what he did.
And then you have the likes of docvic, who (if I recollect correct)
had MANY disparaging words to say about the ministry of BG,
and others he claimed to have known, since they weren't *with him*.
Docvic's lifestyle vs. what he taught were the antithesis of each other.
Billy Graham (seemingly effortlessly), walks the talk that he espouses.
Docvic (seemingly effortlessly), looked the other way.
And --- while looking the OTHER WAY (sarcasm intended)
he managed to DISS those who think about the people that listen to them.
I guess it is AVAILABLE to know the DOCTRINE AND MANNER OF LIFE
of any of the Men-Of-The-Cloth. Choose wisely. I didn't.
Another thought on this subject.....Who was VP accountable to? Most churches or ministries that I know of and have been acquainted with, have some kind of "board of elders," that the pastor/minister answers to.
VP adamantly stated over and over again that he didn't have to give account to anyone but God. :blink: Virtually every true "minister" I've ever known stands accountable to those whom he/she serves.
He surrounded himself with yes men, who didn't question his mog status, and condoned and enabled his troubling behavior. Anybody who was on staff or in the corps during his reign, knows that anybody who challenged him was publicly humiliated.
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Deciderator
What part of PFAL "elevates the man, vpw, and "his doctrine"?
Who was deceiving who?
Here you were. setting yourself out to minister others "in the valley of life" when you were not in it to serve God and His people, but because you were a joiner who wanted to be in the right club!
And now it looks as if you can't take personal; responsibility for your own false motives, naivete and elevating a man in a way that was uncalled for.
But now you're "spiritually acute," eh?
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skyrider
Thanks Deciderator for your question.
Who was deceiving who? Let's see........just to name a few.
1) Wierwille prefaced this class with statements like....."God told me that He'd teach me things that hadn't been known since the first centiry church if I'd teach them to others." Even Mrs. Wierwille, in her book entitled Born Again to Serve which was published in 1996, states that vpw was THRILLED after taking BG Leonard's class in 1953.....the same year wierwille "decided" to incorporate twi. What a coincidence.
Don't know about you......but I'd call THAT deceiving.
2) "All the women in the kingdom BELONG to the king".......Really??? No biblical substantiation, no basis of truth....just a little "micky" slipped in there for later.
Don't know about you......but I'd call THAT deceitful.
After "planting this devilish seed" a whole mushroom culture of sexual exploitation and predation wherein the mog is the beneficiary of that evil doctrine. I'd call that deceiving.
3) "The Word takes the place of the absent Christ." Huh???????????????????????
How is it that Jesus Christ appeared to the Apostle Paul? How is it that the Age of Grace documents others who see or receive revelation FROM Jesus Christ? What about Stephen as he see Jesus STANDING....as Stephen endures persecution and death?
4) "You know what killed that little boy. You just quit your yakking. It was the FEAR in the heart and life of that mother that killed her little boy." One of the GREAT twistings of wierwille's "law of believing" to instill fear motivation and leverage his power and influence over his flock.
And, yeah.......I think that I've become more SPIRITUALLY ACUTE to recognize this indoctrination and twisting of the Scriptures.
How many more do you want, Deciderator?
Should we talk about victor paul wierwille's MANNER OF LIFE now?
Let's see.....58 year old GROPING GRANDPA wierwille was drugging and raping girls in his motorcoach and taught his inner cirls of men his exploits.
Wierwille lashed out viciously, time and time again, intimidating and silencing his critics. Even men like JAL, Dubofxxx, and others YEARS LATER had the fortitude and courage to stand up and fess up. And Martindale was groomed in wierwille's image and more so......become at least two-fold the groper and womanizer that wierwille was.
Wierwille "on his deathbed" wished he'd lived differently........how so? Because the guy KNEW his plundering of women, the deceptions, the lies, etc. etc. I have no doubts that wierwille was sorta apologizing or patronizing in his arrogant fashion once again.
Wierwille's Ambassador One pilot abandoned wierwille and twi.....hmmmm?
Wierwille's bodyguards and valets abandoned wierwille and twi.....hmmmm?
Wierwille's trunk coordinators....HOW MANY?? ... 5 or 6 or 7....all abandoned twi.....hmmmm.
I see a pattern here.......
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Dot Matrix
Sky rider
this is a much needed thread and I agree with you
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skyrider
Thanks...I appreciate it.
Having been around Waydale and GS for eight years......it seems, vpw-defenders always take this same posturing and stance:
1) Wierwille's doctrine (most notably, in pfal)......look at ALL the good it did?
OR
2) Wierwille's doctrine and his teachings.............what a faithful man????
BUT, what they disregard or flat-out deny is.....
3) What about wierwille's MANNER OF LIFE off-stage and in the motorcoach-mania phase? The Scriptures do NOT extend this sort of compartmentalizing of one's life. It runs at cross-purposes with all kinds of scriptures that highlight "that Christ be formed in you" and not just "a form of godliness."
Side-stepping these issues is deceiving and being deceived.
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Dot Matrix
Conduct cannot be seperated from a man's ministry unless there is repentance and CHANGE
Now, there have been more than 3 witnesses in TWI. What VP divised was brilliant. If you get people to embrace the same sin as you, then they are not going to corrct you. Most or at least a large part that I know of, who were ordained were already in the inner circle.
So, gee I confronted VP, I went to JAL to report the conduct, but he condoned it, I went to Micheal Fort, but he condoned it, I went to Christph Stoop and never really heard back on that one, I went to two female ministers I later found WERE servicing VPW. Then, my three limb leaders under whom I served -- were all involved.... BTW, Craig came to me and told me the reason I did not get in the 10th corps was because I did not know how to keep my mouth shut. About what you ask? About the sex the leaders were having on the field with young girls. He told me to keep my mouth shut. I went in the 11th ready to expose them all --- got to VP and he was the person teaching them...
So, what a way to save yourself from impeachment! Involve everyone in the crime!!!
So, who do you go to? You report it -- they are involved -- they get together and decide YOU can't handle it and tell you crazythings like you are possessed.
So, although this is great Bilbe, in the case of TWI the only choice was to leave
This works in a real church maybe -
1Ti 5:19 Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses.
1Ti 5:20 Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning.
1Ti 5:21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality.
Or this
Deu 19:15 “A single witness shall not rise up against a man on account of any iniquity or any sin which he has committed; on the evidence of two or three witnesses a matter shall be confirmed.
Deu 19:16 “If a malicious witness rises up against a man to accuse him of wrongdoing,
Deu 19:17 then both the men who have the dispute shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges who will be in office in those days.
Deu 19:18 “The judges shall investigate thoroughly, and if the witness is a false witness and he has accused his brother falsely,
Deu 19:19 then you shall do to him just as he had intended to do to his brother. Thus you shall purge the evil from among you.
Deu 19:20 “The rest will hear and be afraid, and will never again do such an evil thing among you.
Deu 19:21 “Thus you shall not show pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
IMO
I contend he was NOT a good man that went bad. It was too organized with evil and protection of evil to have ever been good.
These were baby snatchers.
We got born-again then snatched into a demeaning community who minimized Jesus and manimized devil spirtis.
Where you had the new birth may always be precious to you. May I suggest that had we been born again elsewhere we may have gone further, you were called before the foundations - you would have been bor-again with or without TWI. If we had been born-again, say in Leonard's class, perhaps we would have gone further. Than, 30 years later be arguing here.
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waysider
I think it is perfectly acceptable for one's actions on- stage to be at the opposite end of the spectrum off- stage.
If they happen to be an actor!!!
And---------- The audience knows it is not viewing reality.
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Dot Matrix
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excathedra
and what an actor !!!!
except when that dang temper got the best of him oops i mean spiritual anger
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skyrider
Absolutely..!!!
If CONDUCT is unimportant..........WHY is there an couple of epistles to the Corinthian Church that targets the conduct, the defiling, the need for change, repentance and godly sorrow..???
If wierwille's "sexual prowess" was no big deal......WHY didn't he teach it in CFS? Why didn't he teach all the corps men this standard of "ministering to the women in your areas."?????
HIDDEN THINGS OF DARKNESS.............that's why.
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excathedra
seriously !!!!!!!
it doesn't take a "christian" to recognize this stuff
it only takes a culthead not to recognize it
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skyrider
Rev. Billy Graham.........now THERE IS A MAN of moral conscience and SPIRITUAL INTEGRITY.
Wierwille was hiding in the shadows of sin nature.....seems like everytime his motorcoach hit the road.
Uuuugh.
A culthead...............
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Dot Matrix
Once people seperate the man from the blessing they happen to get while in, I think this becomes more apparent.
Some are just not ready, I guess
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skyrider
Yeah....and once people separate the simple truth
........FROM the adul-tree
And, FROM the idola-tree
And, FROM the way-tree
The scales fall from their eyes and they can SEE it for what it really was/is.
:blink:
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Ham
It is rather easy to "deceive" a seventeen year old, even an eighteen year old, looking for a few answers, genuine friendship..
easy to say, "so NOW your'e so spiritual.."
I think the answer is, yes.
One of my ham friends, never involved with der vey has an apt description: Young and Dumb.
"God, I know I was young and dumb, forgive me for being so damn naive.."
I've actually prayed something like this..
:)
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Ham
I don't know about anybody else.. I really have prayed..
"don't let me die while I'm this damn ignorant.."
:)
The prayer is still in the "hopper'..
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waysider
"He was a mean, mean man."-----------Dottsie
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skyrider
I don't ever remember veepee or craig digging out the Numbers in Scripture for this verse......like they did over and over again for so many OTHER things. Could it be that this just didn't work to their favor????? Or, more to the point.....their agenda?
Man, it's been awhile.......but if they HAD done it, wouldn't it look something like this AND one's manner of life either establishes or divides one from THE DOCTRINE?
And, lest we forget..........martindale went on the longest speil documenting all the things that aligned with him being the SECOND president of twi.
Doctrine.................... #1 = unity / truth
Manner of life............ #2 = establishes / divides
Purpose.................... #3 = completeness
Faith......................... #4 = number for the world
Longsuffering............ #5 = grace
Charity..................... #6 = number for man
Patience.................... #7 = spiritual perfection
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Jim
Skyrider,
I started reading this thread with a giant yawn. It didn't take long to see your brilliant insight into another aspect of Wierwilleian deception. Thanks.
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ex10
VP's "manner of life" thoroughly, and yes, throughly ;) disqualified him from being any kind of "minister," much less a teacher.
Ok, we all know the "qualifications of a leader" from I Timothy 3.
Geeze, I wonder why God had Paul write those things?
Could it be that when a sexual deviant of the alcoholic type (or anyone else of questionable character) becomes a "minister," he/she teaches other "ministers" to become what they themselves are?
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rascal
Now THERES a brilliant quote!!!
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skyrider
So true, ex10.
Gee.....the motorcoach aided his immoral and predatory behavior that was HIDDEN from view.
Gee.....the coffee AND drambuie assisted his alcoholic nature. The drambuie bottles were HIDDEN from view, yet even wierwille mentioned it a few times late at night when he taught the corps. Uuuugh.
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dmiller
Absolutely!! (to both skyrider and waysider).
I'm guessing that a *man of the cloth* who WAS being an actor,
would be expected to operate on stage one way, and off stage another.
Which (imo) would negate anything and everything taught from the pulpit.
What's that saying?? I'd like to SEE a sermon rather than HEAR a sermon
(or something like that), but it certainly makes the point.
Skyrider, you made an EXCELLENT point when you said ---
That he would *teach* this to a select few, and NOT the general masses, speaks volumes.
And were he to try to *teach* this to the masses -- he'd be out on his @$$ in NO time flat.
It had to be kept *quiet*. Hidden things of Darkness have NO fellowship with Light.
Which leads me to think of Billy Graham, and his ministry.
It's a well known FACT that Billy Graham would NEVER counsel a woman
without AT LEAST one other person in the room.
He makes it a point to NEVER be alone in ANY room with a woman alone.
He would NOT EVEN get into an elevator if he saw only one woman in there.
He's made sure that wheverever he might be -- he could be ACCOUNTABLE for what he did.
And then you have the likes of docvic, who (if I recollect correct)
had MANY disparaging words to say about the ministry of BG,
and others he claimed to have known, since they weren't *with him*.
Docvic's lifestyle vs. what he taught were the antithesis of each other.
Billy Graham (seemingly effortlessly), walks the talk that he espouses.
Docvic (seemingly effortlessly), looked the other way.
And --- while looking the OTHER WAY (sarcasm intended)
he managed to DISS those who think about the people that listen to them.
I guess it is AVAILABLE to know the DOCTRINE AND MANNER OF LIFE
of any of the Men-Of-The-Cloth. Choose wisely. I didn't.
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ex10
Another thought on this subject.....Who was VP accountable to? Most churches or ministries that I know of and have been acquainted with, have some kind of "board of elders," that the pastor/minister answers to.
VP adamantly stated over and over again that he didn't have to give account to anyone but God. :blink: Virtually every true "minister" I've ever known stands accountable to those whom he/she serves.
He surrounded himself with yes men, who didn't question his mog status, and condoned and enabled his troubling behavior. Anybody who was on staff or in the corps during his reign, knows that anybody who challenged him was publicly humiliated.
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excathedra
good point, sis
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