I suspect Solomon didn't have to drug women; he was the King and could have any woman he wanted. He was the King and women flocked to him; just like they flocked to Wierwille. Like some kind of a rock star.
Are you sure about that? I've only heard that from one source all my life.
I don't know why he had to use drugs though;
Just that line alone ought to set off sirens in your moral center.
I don't know why he had to use drugs though;he had all the women without them. That was wrong for sure. But maybe he did it just to loosen them up? You know the uptight ones. I never tried it, but I heard that some of these date rape drugs enhance the sexual desire. Sort of like a sexual aid.
Oh I get it! They wanted him, but they just didn't know it yet. He had to give them drugs to loosen them up and make the experience better for him, and maybe for them too. How compassionate of him. <_<
Yea...right. That might fly if the women weren't UNCONCIOUS when he was doing it.
BTW most if not all men fantisize about young women. That is a fact of nature and any guy who disputes this is either lying or gay.
If young women were 'flocking' to VP then why did he have to drug them???
I was a young girl once and in my college girl mind VP= sex= eeww! A pot bellied old man? There were plenty of cute young guys around back then.
And if a sweet young thing did pursue a Christian minister old enough to be her grandfather--wasn't Biblical counseling more the responsible choice on gramps part, not adultery? Couldn't he have said--"Hey Dotsie, stick around while I talk with this girl. I think she has sex issues." or something?
Hello folks. :) Writing to you directly from the bosses computer now. :)
I hope everyone had a nice weekend and truly hope we can discuss some issues this week without all the personal attacks.
...Am I to take your remarks seriously? After reading your posts over an extended period of time, I can only conclude that you enjoy the personal attacks and even thrive on them...else why do you set yourself up for them with your ludicrous and inciteful remarks?
In my estimation, defending Vic Wierwille's sexual predatory behavior is akin to defending a child molester to a group of parents who have suffered this experience. Your insensitivity is beyond belief and your rationalization process is nearly off the charts.
Within any large group of people, you will usually find someone who purposely takes an unpopular and minority view of an important issue for the purpose of drawing attention to himself...I suppose it could be compared to the class clown in elementary school...the kid who always acted up and did outlandish things to draw attention.
The fact that this argument is even taking place demonstrates this...perhaps it's even on a subconscious level.
I find the idea that Mr. Wierwille is even considered to be a Christian to be suspect...forget biblical comparisons and holding Vic up to biblical standards of behavior for Christian ministers...he failed to live up to secular standards of behavior. A decent married man does not have sex with other women...PERIOD. Wierwille was a selfish pig who had no regard for anyone but himself.
As personal attacks goes, dooj, this one not only crosses the line but does so by a mile. Shame on you!
Btw Dooj -- I took the liberty of reporting your post to Pawtucket. Perhaps allowing this post to be permitted for public consumption is his way of responding to that report. Fair enuf.
I believe you OWE Oldies an apology. Can you manage one? I have my doubts.
I suspect Solomon didn't have to drug women; he was the King and could have any woman he wanted. He was the King and women flocked to him; just like they flocked to Wierwille. Like some kind of a rock star.
I don't know why he had to use drugs though; he had all the women without them. That was wrong for sure. But maybe he did it just to loosen them up? You know the uptight ones. I never tried it, but I heard that some of these date rape drugs enhance the sexual desire. Sort of like a sexual aid.
BTW most if not all men fantisize about young women. That is a fact of nature and any guy who disputes this is either lying or gay.
I do not believe this. I think that is disturbing that you believe that this is the norm :(
I have never wanted to vomit so much in my life as when I saw this. Wow... wow... just... wow.
I suspect Solomon didn't have to drug women; he was the King and could have any woman he wanted. He was the King and women flocked to him; just like they flocked to Wierwille. Like some kind of a rock star.
I don't know why he had to use drugs though; he had all the women without them. That was wrong for sure. But maybe he did it just to loosen them up? You know the uptight ones. I never tried it, but I heard that some of these date rape drugs enhance the sexual desire. Sort of like a sexual aid.
BTW most if not all men fantisize about young women. That is a fact of nature and any guy who disputes this is either lying or gay.
Wow Oldies! I have never heard someone so blatantly advocate rape, adultery, drugging, pedophilia in one post before. I'm with Marx on this one - either you are just insane or you are an attention whore of the worst caliber.
And john let me give you a little secret if you have to hit your wife or
dream about doing it don't put on the net.
It sort of makes you look foolish in front of the Judge and divorce layer.
Danny, your rants make you look foolish in front of the greasespot community. For approxiamately the fiftieth time; John has never hit me, nor do I think he dreams about it.
BTW, what is a divorce layer. I have heard of divorce lawyers, which could be synonymous with liars; but never a divorce layer.
I don't know why he had to use drugs though; he had all the women without them. That was wrong for sure. But maybe he did it just to loosen them up? You know the uptight ones. I never tried it, but I heard that some of these date rape drugs enhance the sexual desire. Sort of like a sexual aid.
BTW most if not all men fantisize about young women. That is a fact of nature and any guy who disputes this is either lying or gay.
WTF OLDIESMAN
1 POINT FOR BOTH STATMENTS
IN ALL YOUR WISDOM AND GLORY TELL ME IN PFAL YOUR DOCTRINE AND BIBLE WHAT IS THE KEY TO POWER ?
THE RENEWED MIND. CALL IT WAY LOGIC OR WHATEVER U WANT.
DRUGING WOMEN FOR HIS OWN LUST.
FANTISING ABOUT WOMEN YOUNGER OR OLDER TO MEET HIS PERVERTED NEEDS.
WHERE WAS HIS RENEWED MIND, ITS ONLY A THOUGHT AWAY?
YOU ARE A SICK PERVERT AND ONE DAY U WILL BE FACE TO FACE WITH THE BIG GUY AND HAVE TO EXPLAIN YOUR
THOUGHTS AND ACTIONS. GOOD LUCK.
THE ONLY ONE WHO NEEDED A SEXUAL AIDE WAS VP TO HURT, HARM AND EXPLOIT WOMEN.
DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THE CRAP YOU WRITE?
IF I DID NOT LIKE TO COME TO THE CAFE I WOULD TELL U HOW I REALLY FEEL.
I HAVE A LOT TO SAY BUT FOR LEGAL REASONS I WILL HOLD MY TOUNGE.
PS I BET U ARE A SINGLE MAN BECAUSE TO PUT UP WITH YOUR OPIONS OF WOMEN
...and when did you become the spokesman for "all men"?
Groucho, you and others are correct, I am not a spokesman for all men and should not have written that. My apologies to all, for the blanket statement "any guy who disputes this is either lying or gay." Sorry, please forgive.
Although I'd like to discuss this topic of "male sexual nature" in the future. I think it would be profitable.
But right now its just seems too controversial and I can do without all the personal attacks and vitriol.
Hopefully will start a thread on it in the future and maybe it can be reasonably discussed. :)
Oldies, did it occur to you that maybe you are simply mistaken? That you might possibly have been taught wrong? Judging by the reactions of every poster here, would not it be a possibility to consider?
Rather than trying to demonize everyone who is offended by this statement....could you try instead to understand how wrong and harmfull this thought process, and wierwilles actions were to our brothers and sisters in Christ?
Please, look at the path of pain and destruction that such thinking and actions has left in it`s wake....decades after the actions occured.
Rather than blaming the women for being weak, or easy, or wanting it, can you for a miniute feel compassion, can you try to consider the very real damage and pain that such thinking caused?
Could it be a possibility that this was not God sanctioned, but the rationalizations of a very selfish man for excusing his perversions?
This isn`t about arguing, or winning, or who can smack down the other poster with the meanest insult.
I posted on 346 It only took till 361 For ol jean to say
johnniee didn't hit me.
She hasn't been here for a month and wow. 1 hour.
Tell you husband not to put on the net he would like to hit you.
and all women need a good clocking i think he said.
Carry on.
My My Oldies you sure put the poo poo in
the top hat.
Your words are very telling why its ok for vp.
You "think he said"? Unless you can submit evidence (the actual quote) of what John said, what you say (or think) amounts to nothing more than bull. Next I expect it to be said that he actually said he did hit his wife.
Dooj you do owe Oldies an apology; he said young WOMEN (mature adult female), not young girls. You guys all ought to take a cold shower together and clean out the toxicity in your heads.
He had to drug them because someone somewhere along the line would have beaten up his wrinkly old butt without it.
Dooj you do owe Oldies an apology; he said young WOMEN (mature adult female), not young girls. You guys all ought to take a cold shower together and clean out the toxicity in your heads.
Well being the mother of a 19 yr old and a 16, nearly 17 yr old teenaged girls....BOTH would be too young to be seduced or coerced or drugged and raped by a creepy old man posing as a minister of God.
The very idea of some bastard acting as a grandfather figure, loving and kind ...winning their trust as a minister teaching them the bible and then having sex with them is abhorant.
Now that I am a parent, I understand the vulnerability of these sweet girls, of their willingness to trust, their desire to please.
It is just vulgar and disgusting to think of either of these sweet children to be betrayed and used by that trash...and yet I know that my sweet sisters in Christ were that very age when they were the victims of these predators :(
Many have spent the ensuing decades trying to pick up the pieces in the aftermath of that betrayal.
Oldies and John, you are both WAY off base on this one. Try for some compassion and understanding of what these vulnerable young ladies went through...how cruel the betrayal was.
And now, folks, we see what Way-brain can do to a person... and what years of first hand testimony can not undo. vee pee did a real good job on some folks.
As personal attacks goes, dooj, this one not only crosses the line but does so by a mile. Shame on you!
Btw Dooj -- I took the liberty of reporting your post to Pawtucket. Perhaps allowing this post to be permitted for public consumption is his way of responding to that report. Fair enuf.
I believe you OWE Oldies an apology. Can you manage one? I have my doubts.
Larry, I'm more than happy to apologize.
Here's what I responded to:
I don't know why he had to use drugs though; he had all the women without them. That was wrong for sure. But maybe he did it just to loosen them up? You know the uptight ones. I never tried it, but I heard that some of these date rape drugs enhance the sexual desire. Sort of like a sexual aid.
BTW most if not all men fantisize about young women. That is a fact of nature and any guy who disputes this is either lying or gay.
Given the age of most of the 'young women' that vp took advantage of, I thought first and foremost of an older teen/young woman - 17-21. I was thinking of a High School and early college. I should have specified that in my post. I wasn't accusing Oldies of being a pedophile, but as the mother of two girls, one of them a teen, I naturally had a knee-jerk reaction.
Oldies, I apologize. I should have been more specific and clear headed in my wording. I was and still am deeply offended by this post. That is no excuse for how I worded my own post to you.
johniam, You said this:
Dooj you do owe Oldies an apology; he said young WOMEN (mature adult female), not young girls.
There is quite a difference between a mature adult female and a young woman. My teen is a young lady (she is a lady and not just a female or woman.) I already explained my thinking at the time of the post. I never mean to imply "young girls."
You guys all ought to take a cold shower together and clean out the toxicity in your heads.
Now just what are you implying here? I apologized. Can you?
Is rape ever Okay? No. (I don't believe anyone would disagree with me there.)
The Viagra argument is moot since there was no drug of this nature around at the time. The drugs we're talking about are drugs that knock a person out.
The bottom line here is that vp used his position to manipulate young women into trusting him. he was married. They were at least 30 years younger than he was.
Would anyone here say, "Well, it's Okay since she was 21? (Even though he's 51.)
Imagine this young woman is your daughter. She's off at college and a 51 year old uses a drug on her then has his way with her. She's devastated. Are you really going to say to her, "Oh honey, you're an adult mature female now. He just wanted to loosen you up sexually."?
Now say she's 17 and he's 51. Say she's 17 and he's 47. Does it really make you feel any better about the situation? Sheesh! I'd be upset if a 17 year old was drugged and raped by a young man her own age. The age difference just increases the level of responsibility that would be expected from that man.
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Danny
Oldies
Let me give u a clue God told that old king
it was wrong.
Maybe in custom they did it but in Gods eyes it was wrong.
If you still haven't figured it out vp put it in his class.
It was the hook.
Looks like you got caught.
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doojable
Are you sure about that? I've only heard that from one source all my life.
Just that line alone ought to set off sirens in your moral center.Oh I get it! They wanted him, but they just didn't know it yet. He had to give them drugs to loosen them up and make the experience better for him, and maybe for them too. How compassionate of him. <_<
Yea...right. That might fly if the women weren't UNCONCIOUS when he was doing it.
Good Lord! I pray you don't live near a school.
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Bramble
If young women were 'flocking' to VP then why did he have to drug them???
I was a young girl once and in my college girl mind VP= sex= eeww! A pot bellied old man? There were plenty of cute young guys around back then.
And if a sweet young thing did pursue a Christian minister old enough to be her grandfather--wasn't Biblical counseling more the responsible choice on gramps part, not adultery? Couldn't he have said--"Hey Dotsie, stick around while I talk with this girl. I think she has sex issues." or something?
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GrouchoMarxJr
...Am I to take your remarks seriously? After reading your posts over an extended period of time, I can only conclude that you enjoy the personal attacks and even thrive on them...else why do you set yourself up for them with your ludicrous and inciteful remarks?
In my estimation, defending Vic Wierwille's sexual predatory behavior is akin to defending a child molester to a group of parents who have suffered this experience. Your insensitivity is beyond belief and your rationalization process is nearly off the charts.
Within any large group of people, you will usually find someone who purposely takes an unpopular and minority view of an important issue for the purpose of drawing attention to himself...I suppose it could be compared to the class clown in elementary school...the kid who always acted up and did outlandish things to draw attention.
The fact that this argument is even taking place demonstrates this...perhaps it's even on a subconscious level.
I find the idea that Mr. Wierwille is even considered to be a Christian to be suspect...forget biblical comparisons and holding Vic up to biblical standards of behavior for Christian ministers...he failed to live up to secular standards of behavior. A decent married man does not have sex with other women...PERIOD. Wierwille was a selfish pig who had no regard for anyone but himself.
...end of story.
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Larry N Moore
As personal attacks goes, dooj, this one not only crosses the line but does so by a mile. Shame on you!
Btw Dooj -- I took the liberty of reporting your post to Pawtucket. Perhaps allowing this post to be permitted for public consumption is his way of responding to that report. Fair enuf.
I believe you OWE Oldies an apology. Can you manage one? I have my doubts.
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rascal
I do not believe this. I think that is disturbing that you believe that this is the norm :(
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GrouchoMarxJr
...and when did you become the spokesman for "all men"?
If you really believe your own words, I would suggest that you are mentally ill.
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doojable
See... now I'm wondering if Oldies even believes what he posts or just tries to play devil's advocate. Oh wait! He doesn't have to try...
What's the payoff for you Oldies?
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Danny
He started a train wreck and doesn't even know it.
I can see the boys with the cuffs coming to visit now.
Hope he dosen't lose his job over this.
Boss will be real suprised to read all this.
Claim being in a cult.
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Nero
I have never wanted to vomit so much in my life as when I saw this. Wow... wow... just... wow.
Wow Oldies! I have never heard someone so blatantly advocate rape, adultery, drugging, pedophilia in one post before. I'm with Marx on this one - either you are just insane or you are an attention whore of the worst caliber.
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Jeaniam
Danny, your rants make you look foolish in front of the greasespot community. For approxiamately the fiftieth time; John has never hit me, nor do I think he dreams about it.
BTW, what is a divorce layer. I have heard of divorce lawyers, which could be synonymous with liars; but never a divorce layer.
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rascal
awww mommies gotta come and help little johnnieiam out of the hole he dug himself into..
If he hadn`t advocated it`s necessity from time to time in the first place, he wouldn`t be getting a hard time about it now.
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copenhagen
OLDIES QUOTE
I don't know why he had to use drugs though; he had all the women without them. That was wrong for sure. But maybe he did it just to loosen them up? You know the uptight ones. I never tried it, but I heard that some of these date rape drugs enhance the sexual desire. Sort of like a sexual aid.
BTW most if not all men fantisize about young women. That is a fact of nature and any guy who disputes this is either lying or gay.
WTF OLDIESMAN
1 POINT FOR BOTH STATMENTS
IN ALL YOUR WISDOM AND GLORY TELL ME IN PFAL YOUR DOCTRINE AND BIBLE WHAT IS THE KEY TO POWER ?
THE RENEWED MIND. CALL IT WAY LOGIC OR WHATEVER U WANT.
DRUGING WOMEN FOR HIS OWN LUST.
FANTISING ABOUT WOMEN YOUNGER OR OLDER TO MEET HIS PERVERTED NEEDS.
WHERE WAS HIS RENEWED MIND, ITS ONLY A THOUGHT AWAY?
YOU ARE A SICK PERVERT AND ONE DAY U WILL BE FACE TO FACE WITH THE BIG GUY AND HAVE TO EXPLAIN YOUR
THOUGHTS AND ACTIONS. GOOD LUCK.
THE ONLY ONE WHO NEEDED A SEXUAL AIDE WAS VP TO HURT, HARM AND EXPLOIT WOMEN.
DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THE CRAP YOU WRITE?
IF I DID NOT LIKE TO COME TO THE CAFE I WOULD TELL U HOW I REALLY FEEL.
I HAVE A LOT TO SAY BUT FOR LEGAL REASONS I WILL HOLD MY TOUNGE.
PS I BET U ARE A SINGLE MAN BECAUSE TO PUT UP WITH YOUR OPIONS OF WOMEN
IT WOULD TAKE A MIRACLE
COPENHAGEN
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oldiesman
Groucho, you and others are correct, I am not a spokesman for all men and should not have written that. My apologies to all, for the blanket statement "any guy who disputes this is either lying or gay." Sorry, please forgive.
Although I'd like to discuss this topic of "male sexual nature" in the future. I think it would be profitable.
But right now its just seems too controversial and I can do without all the personal attacks and vitriol.
Hopefully will start a thread on it in the future and maybe it can be reasonably discussed. :)
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rascal
Oldies, did it occur to you that maybe you are simply mistaken? That you might possibly have been taught wrong? Judging by the reactions of every poster here, would not it be a possibility to consider?
Rather than trying to demonize everyone who is offended by this statement....could you try instead to understand how wrong and harmfull this thought process, and wierwilles actions were to our brothers and sisters in Christ?
Please, look at the path of pain and destruction that such thinking and actions has left in it`s wake....decades after the actions occured.
Rather than blaming the women for being weak, or easy, or wanting it, can you for a miniute feel compassion, can you try to consider the very real damage and pain that such thinking caused?
Could it be a possibility that this was not God sanctioned, but the rationalizations of a very selfish man for excusing his perversions?
This isn`t about arguing, or winning, or who can smack down the other poster with the meanest insult.
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Danny
I posted on 346 It only took till 361 For ol jean to say
johnniee didn't hit me. No jeanie it sort of makes u
little foolish when it is print what he wrote. yes layers of lies hahahaha
what some good eyes better fingers and spell check could take care of.
Let me ask jean did little johnee come tell you they telling lies about me again?
She hasn't been here for a month and wow. 1 hour.
Tell you husband not to put on the net he would like to hit you.
and all women need a good clocking i think he said.
Maybe his words shows his true feelings.
Let me ask Jean one more thing is ol johnee going to hide
for a while hoping i forgot what he wrote?
Tell him to stop writing stupid things or stand up for what he wrote.
layers of lies
Jean when I have realized i believed something wrong and said something
wrong i say I'm sorry
Lord God I have sinned please forgive me.
GS I have sinned please forgive me.
Not I didn't do it. Its in print for goodness sakes
My My Oldies you sure put the poo poo in
the top hat.
Your words are very telling why its ok for vp.
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Larry N Moore
You "think he said"? Unless you can submit evidence (the actual quote) of what John said, what you say (or think) amounts to nothing more than bull. Next I expect it to be said that he actually said he did hit his wife.
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johniam
Dooj you do owe Oldies an apology; he said young WOMEN (mature adult female), not young girls. You guys all ought to take a cold shower together and clean out the toxicity in your heads.
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Danny
John your as sick as him if you think she needs to do anything.
What age would be ok to try and rape 50
12
Freak
My daughter at 36 is young to me so what age is ok?
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Nero
I'm sorry - I forgot to say something.
He had to drug them because someone somewhere along the line would have beaten up his wrinkly old butt without it.
So it's okay to rape mature adult females?
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rascal
Well being the mother of a 19 yr old and a 16, nearly 17 yr old teenaged girls....BOTH would be too young to be seduced or coerced or drugged and raped by a creepy old man posing as a minister of God.
The very idea of some bastard acting as a grandfather figure, loving and kind ...winning their trust as a minister teaching them the bible and then having sex with them is abhorant.
Now that I am a parent, I understand the vulnerability of these sweet girls, of their willingness to trust, their desire to please.
It is just vulgar and disgusting to think of either of these sweet children to be betrayed and used by that trash...and yet I know that my sweet sisters in Christ were that very age when they were the victims of these predators :(
Many have spent the ensuing decades trying to pick up the pieces in the aftermath of that betrayal.
Oldies and John, you are both WAY off base on this one. Try for some compassion and understanding of what these vulnerable young ladies went through...how cruel the betrayal was.
Please?
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Belle
And now, folks, we see what Way-brain can do to a person... and what years of first hand testimony can not undo. vee pee did a real good job on some folks.
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doojable
Larry, I'm more than happy to apologize.
Here's what I responded to:
Given the age of most of the 'young women' that vp took advantage of, I thought first and foremost of an older teen/young woman - 17-21. I was thinking of a High School and early college. I should have specified that in my post. I wasn't accusing Oldies of being a pedophile, but as the mother of two girls, one of them a teen, I naturally had a knee-jerk reaction.
Oldies, I apologize. I should have been more specific and clear headed in my wording. I was and still am deeply offended by this post. That is no excuse for how I worded my own post to you.
johniam, You said this:
There is quite a difference between a mature adult female and a young woman. My teen is a young lady (she is a lady and not just a female or woman.) I already explained my thinking at the time of the post. I never mean to imply "young girls."
Now just what are you implying here? I apologized. Can you?
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doojable
Is rape ever Okay? No. (I don't believe anyone would disagree with me there.)
The Viagra argument is moot since there was no drug of this nature around at the time. The drugs we're talking about are drugs that knock a person out.
The bottom line here is that vp used his position to manipulate young women into trusting him. he was married. They were at least 30 years younger than he was.
Would anyone here say, "Well, it's Okay since she was 21? (Even though he's 51.)
Imagine this young woman is your daughter. She's off at college and a 51 year old uses a drug on her then has his way with her. She's devastated. Are you really going to say to her, "Oh honey, you're an adult mature female now. He just wanted to loosen you up sexually."?
Now say she's 17 and he's 51. Say she's 17 and he's 47. Does it really make you feel any better about the situation? Sheesh! I'd be upset if a 17 year old was drugged and raped by a young man her own age. The age difference just increases the level of responsibility that would be expected from that man.
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