Yeah, I loved that approach. We can answer all your questions. Then you realize the explanations contradict another "truth" or whatever... and when you ask you just have to "believe" or some junk.
After I left TWI I realized I had a lot more disapointments than I had questions. I was basically disgusted. Now I'm asking more questions - wondering where other people have gone - picking things that seem to make more sense until I feel like looking it up myself or just decide to leave it in my past.
Having no questions about things is nice too. It's quiet and relaxing.
Imagine, I have found, since leaving TWI that I really don't give a flip about answers anymore. It is so much easier to get on with the things of life and so much more peaceful to say, "I don't know."
I am enjoying the journey instead of focusing on the destination and that means that what I think or think I know constantly changes. I am open to learning from just about anyone, but I am very wary of those who are so sure they have answers.
trying to get answers to me about other's lifes, leaders, current way stuff, and even doctrinal issues leaves me empty, unless there is value to the content...I think my cup has refilled to a point where the need is gone to need more..answers dont always come so easily..your right imagine..
Imagine............thanks for your thread!........i have found, since leaving twi 21 years ago this month,...... that my need to think that i must "know that i know that i know" was as manufactured as the so-called "answers" twi said they had to all the questions that did not matter to me before twi......and have mattered even less since i left!!..........i am happy to no longer belong to the bible thumpers club of chest beating primates, who think they know more about god than the rest of the world........and, today, when challenged by any question the answer to which, i have no clue,............i am able to unabashedly, and without any self-condemnation or embarrassment, state that, "i know that i know that i don't know"!!!.......................peace.
...my need to think that i must "know that i know that i know" was as manufactured as the so-called "answers" twi said they had...
Well, in my case "needing to know" was a natural result of transitioning between childhood and adulthood... standing on the brink of who knew what and being afraid to give it a try 'alone'. I was looking for a crutch and they gave me one.
I think my current "not needing to know" is a result of experience and maturity that comes with just living life. Let's face it, you can't get to be (cough) our age (cough) without experiencing some highs and lows and realizing that life keeps on going, and its okay. That knowledge is my crutch now, when things get tough.
it's a relief to not have to be right all the time. no more fear of an abusive husband or FC or RC when I wasn't perfect. I can just be human and sometimes forgetful without having to prove I don't have holes in my head.
And why did we think we needed to have all the answers?
I'm so glad I'm allowed to be stupid now :)
I now see the Bible as a book of prophecy, not a science book, a self-help book, or something with every answer in the world in there.
I remember when I decided to leave. I was standing on a sidewalk in NYC going somewhere. I stopped, made the decision, and felt like a weight of TWI inflicted bondage and legalism was lifted off me. I was free.
I like being able to say, I don't know, look it up on Wikipedia :)
I guess these responses baffle me. I never saw wanting to be right as anything more than a goal to the end of knowing more to help more people. I think it is an ever learning quest..... hence I Wanna be right the key word is Wanna not I am right. although it is probably poor wording I think most got the point conveyed. Really? Who wants to be wrong when offering help to someone? Would you seek help from someone that said hey I have wrong answers but I'd be happy to help you? When my computer was toast I looked for someone who was right. I wanted it fixed and I looked for someone that had the confidence to do so , that said I did not not assume they knew everything about computers ever known.
Any way all this made me think of Sue Pierce's song,
" When Your Right"
I got to thinking yesterday
Don't know what all great men say
Some say day while some men say its night
All the different things I've heard
I just go back to Fathers Word
If God has said it, you can bet its right
When you’re right..... All...... the birds and trees sing
Melodies are sweet and green spring
All creation sings your right
And when you’re right All..... the fields and mountains
Fill your heart with bubbly fountains
Shouting out you know your right.
Seeking answers everywhere
Then you find, they've always been there
Walking with you from the start
Looking high and looking low
Look to God, and then you'll know
The answers they speak up within your heart.
When you’re right..... All...... the birds and trees sing
Melodies are sweet and green spring
All creation sings your right
And when you’re right All..... the fields and mountains
Fill your heart with bubbly fountains
Shouting out you know your right.
When you’re wrong…. Mmmm…. hum your song
Give the praise where praise belongs
Learn and let go, when you know you’re wrong
And if sometimes ya just don’t know
Whisper something soft and low
Look to God before you sing your song.
But when you’re right..... All...... the birds and trees sing
Melodies are sweet and green spring
All creation sings your right
And when you’re right All..... the fields and mountains
Ha!! I spent the most part of 13 years in my sitting in my living room......(twig).... I NEVER NEVER NEVER want to be THAT right again!! EVER.
But... I do remember the 'feeling' of being 'right'... and knowing THE answers... and therefore I am much more empathic/patient/ with those who hold those feelings/answers. ( this pertains to bible/koran/life stuff... not computers!)
Was it Bernard Shaw that said... "I would never die for my beliefs.... I might be wrong'!
I know THAT feeling also. (being wrong)... I have eaten so many words... it does not matter any more!!! And that's ok!!
I guess these responses baffle me. I never saw wanting to be right as anything more than a goal to the end of knowing more to help more people.
if you substitute "right" with "right according to twi's take on life, the universe, and everything" then it won't baffle you anymore. no one wants to be wrong, but the obsession with having an answer for everything and being right when the rest of the world was only guessing is an obsession I don't want sucking up my energy any more.
...and God forbid anyone should say something contrary to TWI beliefs, they were immediately assumed to be either stupid or pozzezzed or both. no ifs ands or buts.
If you substitute "right" with "right according to twi's take on life, the universe, and everything" then it won't baffle you anymore.
Depending on the person speaking and time period in question and a few other exceptions Generally I find their take on life to be for the most part biblical. Being right scripturally has nothing to do with fear of an abusive husband or FC or RC when I wasn't perfect. If you had that fear then I would sugest that their were some deeper issues within your thinking that you needed to address that let you allow that in your life.
Depending on the person speaking and time period in question and a few other exceptions Generally I find their take on life to be for the most part biblical. Being right scripturally has nothing to do with fear of an abusive husband or FC or RC when I wasn't perfect. If you had that fear then I would sugest that their were some deeper issues within your thinking that you needed to address that let you allow that in your life.
uh, yeah. the issue was wanting to be right by twi's standard... pretty sure I said that. twi's standards were almost universally unbiblical, although they got wrapped up in pretty scriptural packages. if I had been able to discern truth from error, I wouldn't have gotten wrapped up with twi in the first place. unfortunately, that's where I learned all my bible study tools, hand fed down the food chain. it took a while to wake up. in the meantime, I lived among people who magnified my mistakes and flogged me with a standard of rightness that wasn't scriptural although they twisted it to appear so. I didn't walk into it with an attitude that verbal and physical abuse was ok. if the first thing I'd heard at twig was if you leave your kids will die, I wouldn't have gone back. that part came after years of conditioning in twi. since leaving, I've learned a little about the techniques used to break people's wills. those were used on my by a RC, FC and my ex-husband to break my will. their reasons naturally were wanting to get the devil influence out of my life, get me healed, help me be "right" by being a good submissive wife. is that the deeper issue you're suggesting I needed to address? I coudn't even address it until I was well out of twi.
uh, yeah. the issue was wanting to be right by twi's standard... pretty sure I said that.
Actually the issue was if I remember at the start of the thread.
{Quote}
My question:
Have you found there are no easy answers after you left the way?
twi's standards were almost universally unbiblical, although they got wrapped up in pretty scriptural packages. if I had been able to discern truth from error, I wouldn't have gotten wrapped up with twi in the first place. unfortunately, that's where I learned all my bible study tools, hand fed down the food chain.
That may have been the case in your particular instance, I don't doubt that, that was not in mine or many others which is why I clarified
Depending on the person speaking and time period in question and a few other exceptions Generally
I lived among people who magnified my mistakes and flogged me with a standard of rightness that wasn't scriptural although they twisted it to appear so. I didn't walk into it with an attitude that verbal and physical abuse was ok. if the first thing I'd heard at twig was if you leave your kids will die, I wouldn't have gone back. that part came after years of conditioning in twi.
I'm sorry that was your experience ,but I don't believe that was the norm in teaching. Most of us at some point heard the line about leaving and the prophesies of doom. Most also had access to years of teaching about the love of God and choose to believe what the scriptures said rather than the optional choice. But your right it depended on whether you made the scripture your own as learned in PFAL or just sucked down every man's opinion and PI as to which road you took.
I've learned a little about the techniques used to break people's wills. those were used on my by a RC, FC and my ex-husband to break my will. their reasons naturally were wanting to get the devil influence out of my life, get me healed, help me be "right" by being a good submissive wife. is that the deeper issue you're suggesting I needed to address? I couldn't even address it until I was well out of twi.
I'm glad you have made appropriate changes in your life no matter which way you went about it. If it took leaving and getting away then great, but because that worked for you does not mean that was the only option. One could have arrived at the same conclusions by understanding scripture which was one of the foundational things that we were taught. We all had the option of making the Bible our own some did some did not ...every man's choice.
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Nero
Yeah, I loved that approach. We can answer all your questions. Then you realize the explanations contradict another "truth" or whatever... and when you ask you just have to "believe" or some junk.
After I left TWI I realized I had a lot more disapointments than I had questions. I was basically disgusted. Now I'm asking more questions - wondering where other people have gone - picking things that seem to make more sense until I feel like looking it up myself or just decide to leave it in my past.
Having no questions about things is nice too. It's quiet and relaxing.
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Tom Strange
oops! ...I thought this thread was about why there are low sperm counts ...sorry!
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Belle
:o
TOM STRANGE!!!
:o
My virgin eyes!!
:P
Imagine, I have found, since leaving TWI that I really don't give a flip about answers anymore. It is so much easier to get on with the things of life and so much more peaceful to say, "I don't know."
I am enjoying the journey instead of focusing on the destination and that means that what I think or think I know constantly changes. I am open to learning from just about anyone, but I am very wary of those who are so sure they have answers.
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TheHighWay
Ditto, Belle. Having all the answers (or even most of them) just isn't very critical to me anymore.
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2fortheroad
Walk with those seeking Truth. Run from those who think they've found it. --Deepak Chopra
That's where I'm at these days!
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Tom Strange
That sounds pretty good 2for! ...and it also sounds like a future 'tag line' as well!
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coolchef
ya know i don't care about the answers or questions.
so what is the difference
2 4 6 8 or10 were hung up on a cross or a tree?who cares.what does it matter in my life?
i believe God loves me and mine and to me that is what matters
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likeaneagle
trying to get answers to me about other's lifes, leaders, current way stuff, and even doctrinal issues leaves me empty, unless there is value to the content...I think my cup has refilled to a point where the need is gone to need more..answers dont always come so easily..your right imagine..
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polar bear
Looking back I see most of their answers were wrong.
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DontWorryBeHappy
Imagine............thanks for your thread!........i have found, since leaving twi 21 years ago this month,...... that my need to think that i must "know that i know that i know" was as manufactured as the so-called "answers" twi said they had to all the questions that did not matter to me before twi......and have mattered even less since i left!!..........i am happy to no longer belong to the bible thumpers club of chest beating primates, who think they know more about god than the rest of the world........and, today, when challenged by any question the answer to which, i have no clue,............i am able to unabashedly, and without any self-condemnation or embarrassment, state that, "i know that i know that i don't know"!!!.......................peace.
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TheHighWay
Well, in my case "needing to know" was a natural result of transitioning between childhood and adulthood... standing on the brink of who knew what and being afraid to give it a try 'alone'. I was looking for a crutch and they gave me one.
I think my current "not needing to know" is a result of experience and maturity that comes with just living life. Let's face it, you can't get to be (cough) our age (cough) without experiencing some highs and lows and realizing that life keeps on going, and its okay. That knowledge is my crutch now, when things get tough.
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potato
it's a relief to not have to be right all the time. no more fear of an abusive husband or FC or RC when I wasn't perfect. I can just be human and sometimes forgetful without having to prove I don't have holes in my head.
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Ham
I don't think life would even be half as much fun if one had all or even 95 percent of "the answers"..
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Sunesis
And why did we think we needed to have all the answers?
I'm so glad I'm allowed to be stupid now :)
I now see the Bible as a book of prophecy, not a science book, a self-help book, or something with every answer in the world in there.
I remember when I decided to leave. I was standing on a sidewalk in NYC going somewhere. I stopped, made the decision, and felt like a weight of TWI inflicted bondage and legalism was lifted off me. I was free.
I like being able to say, I don't know, look it up on Wikipedia :)
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Nero
OMG!
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WhiteDove
I guess these responses baffle me. I never saw wanting to be right as anything more than a goal to the end of knowing more to help more people. I think it is an ever learning quest..... hence I Wanna be right the key word is Wanna not I am right. although it is probably poor wording I think most got the point conveyed. Really? Who wants to be wrong when offering help to someone? Would you seek help from someone that said hey I have wrong answers but I'd be happy to help you? When my computer was toast I looked for someone who was right. I wanted it fixed and I looked for someone that had the confidence to do so , that said I did not not assume they knew everything about computers ever known.
Any way all this made me think of Sue Pierce's song,
" When Your Right"
I got to thinking yesterday
Don't know what all great men say
Some say day while some men say its night
All the different things I've heard
I just go back to Fathers Word
If God has said it, you can bet its right
When you’re right..... All...... the birds and trees sing
Melodies are sweet and green spring
All creation sings your right
And when you’re right All..... the fields and mountains
Fill your heart with bubbly fountains
Shouting out you know your right.
Seeking answers everywhere
Then you find, they've always been there
Walking with you from the start
Looking high and looking low
Look to God, and then you'll know
The answers they speak up within your heart.
When you’re right..... All...... the birds and trees sing
Melodies are sweet and green spring
All creation sings your right
And when you’re right All..... the fields and mountains
Fill your heart with bubbly fountains
Shouting out you know your right.
When you’re wrong…. Mmmm…. hum your song
Give the praise where praise belongs
Learn and let go, when you know you’re wrong
And if sometimes ya just don’t know
Whisper something soft and low
Look to God before you sing your song.
But when you’re right..... All...... the birds and trees sing
Melodies are sweet and green spring
All creation sings your right
And when you’re right All..... the fields and mountains
Fill your heart with bubbly fountains
Shouting out you know your right.
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Bumpy
But YOUR financial picture would be brilliant...as a picker of STOCKS & not NUTS!
http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNew...=23&sp=true
...not to mention deterioration in the squirrelly housing mortgage dept.
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2life
Ha!! I spent the most part of 13 years in my sitting in my living room......(twig).... I NEVER NEVER NEVER want to be THAT right again!! EVER.
But... I do remember the 'feeling' of being 'right'... and knowing THE answers... and therefore I am much more empathic/patient/ with those who hold those feelings/answers. ( this pertains to bible/koran/life stuff... not computers!)
Was it Bernard Shaw that said... "I would never die for my beliefs.... I might be wrong'!
I know THAT feeling also. (being wrong)... I have eaten so many words... it does not matter any more!!! And that's ok!!
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potato
if you substitute "right" with "right according to twi's take on life, the universe, and everything" then it won't baffle you anymore. no one wants to be wrong, but the obsession with having an answer for everything and being right when the rest of the world was only guessing is an obsession I don't want sucking up my energy any more.
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Tom Strange
...and God forbid anyone should say something contrary to TWI beliefs, they were immediately assumed to be either stupid or pozzezzed or both. no ifs ands or buts.
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WhiteDove
Depending on the person speaking and time period in question and a few other exceptions Generally I find their take on life to be for the most part biblical. Being right scripturally has nothing to do with fear of an abusive husband or FC or RC when I wasn't perfect. If you had that fear then I would sugest that their were some deeper issues within your thinking that you needed to address that let you allow that in your life.
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potato
uh, yeah. the issue was wanting to be right by twi's standard... pretty sure I said that. twi's standards were almost universally unbiblical, although they got wrapped up in pretty scriptural packages. if I had been able to discern truth from error, I wouldn't have gotten wrapped up with twi in the first place. unfortunately, that's where I learned all my bible study tools, hand fed down the food chain. it took a while to wake up. in the meantime, I lived among people who magnified my mistakes and flogged me with a standard of rightness that wasn't scriptural although they twisted it to appear so. I didn't walk into it with an attitude that verbal and physical abuse was ok. if the first thing I'd heard at twig was if you leave your kids will die, I wouldn't have gone back. that part came after years of conditioning in twi. since leaving, I've learned a little about the techniques used to break people's wills. those were used on my by a RC, FC and my ex-husband to break my will. their reasons naturally were wanting to get the devil influence out of my life, get me healed, help me be "right" by being a good submissive wife. is that the deeper issue you're suggesting I needed to address? I coudn't even address it until I was well out of twi.
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A la prochaine
Tom... I spewed my tea all over the screen when I read this!
OH... BTW...
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO ANSWERS...and when people come to me for answers I say," I'm all out." :blink:
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WhiteDove
{Quote}
My question:
Have you found there are no easy answers after you left the way?
That may have been the case in your particular instance, I don't doubt that, that was not in mine or many others which is why I clarified
Depending on the person speaking and time period in question and a few other exceptions Generally
I'm sorry that was your experience ,but I don't believe that was the norm in teaching. Most of us at some point heard the line about leaving and the prophesies of doom. Most also had access to years of teaching about the love of God and choose to believe what the scriptures said rather than the optional choice. But your right it depended on whether you made the scripture your own as learned in PFAL or just sucked down every man's opinion and PI as to which road you took.I'm glad you have made appropriate changes in your life no matter which way you went about it. If it took leaving and getting away then great, but because that worked for you does not mean that was the only option. One could have arrived at the same conclusions by understanding scripture which was one of the foundational things that we were taught. We all had the option of making the Bible our own some did some did not ...every man's choice.
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