Not that I see any harm in praying every day or tithing or any of the other stuff. But suppose God's will for me is different and while I am praying I should be working on a book and instead of tithing I should be saving for retirement. By being obedient to do the things written in the scriptures I am actually blinding myself to what God would really have me do.
I even think this is the essence of what was happening with the tower of babel. All humanity was almost made blind to Gods will by a few individuals who were using the things that in their day and time pasted for scripture.
They were claiming to have God's word and will for everyone and building a headquarters. The only difference I think between then and now is they were trying not only to make themselves the one great religion but also the one great government. Thus the phrase.....a city and a tower.
Roy: You may not have been around the last time Mike was doing his evangelizing, so you might not know that he holds VPW in, um, an unusually high esteem:
quote:Originally posted by Mike:
He [VPW] was given an overdose of brains and brawn; wherever he walked the ground shook. There are people born in the population who are like that, genetically gifted, even over gifted.
It's up to you, but you might find discussing these things with him will be a complete waste of breath.
God bless!
Zix
The Secret Signature of the Day has been cancelled by the HTML Police.
Like WW's inaccurate portrayals of my position, you too have butchered my posts.
You forgot to include that I thought the same of Mickey Mantle. The tail end of the bell curves that measure human abilities has THOUSANDS of men like Dr and Mickey.
Please don't over-abreviate in how you portray me. It will make you look real bad when people get the fuller story.
You wrote: ?This is what I see to be the main way in which people are made to be subject to men and their nonsense.?
I think we concur on some of this.
I see WW and many others operating in this mode, at least unconsciously. Let me explain.
Everyone knows that for the average Joe and Jane, buying any version of the Bible and trying to make sense of it is very difficult, ESPECIALLY if they?re fairly new to it and had little exposure to it while young. Buying a paraphrased version is what many do, but we know there are LOTS of problems with paraphrased translations. A better word than ?paraphrase? would be ?regurgitated.?
So there?s a huge bulk of the population who need help with getting translation problems and cultural biases out of their reading and study.
Along comes a wordy prolific writer/speaker like WW or any of the dozen ?ministers? who practice their trade here on GreaseSpot. They laud the Bible to the sky, saying how accurate and good it is. Actually, in reality, they are lauding THEMSELVES and their ability to sort through the hodgepodge that men have put together in their versions labeling the cover ?Holy Bible? even though it?s only a large set of their opinions, some right some wrong.
The newbee or average Joe sees this minister as a way to get the answers for their version?s difficult passages. As the minister teaches, they grow dependant on his insights. Their only rule for faith and practice is not their version, but the combo of book/minister.
There?s nothing inherently wrong with this process, except for the unfortunate fact that the minister only has part of the story correct, and his inability to do all the things Jesus Christ is proof, but the students are never taught that one. The minister may be as sincere and semi-pure in motives, or he may be diabolically setting them up, or he may have a mixture of good days and bad days.
No matter how noble the ministers attempts, he never really raises the dead, and his students never do either. The students are dependant on the minister. It?s been this way for 2000 years.
Sounds a little like Dr and us, doesn?t it? It IS like Dr and us, except God stepped in and was able to work with Dr?s peculiar mentality and drive to FINALLY get it all right and in writing. Dr tells us this in a few places at a few times, but after 40 years he steps aside in 1982, saying that the project is done, starting to end the dependant relationship with his students. No one listens. He spends the next 2 and a half years augmenting all that he had taught, and ends his life with a final exhortation to us to master the PFAL writings.
Dr is now gone and has been for almost 20 years. The writings God gave him are as simple as any paraphrase and even simpler, only totally accurate. We are no longer dependant on the man Dr, but we all, newbies, and average Janes and Joes, ALL of us can read it for ourselves, master it, and receive Jesus Christ?s teaching on the deeper spiritual meanings God implanted in those books to get us up from dead churchianity.
With Dr gone, there?s no dependency for us students on him and his flesh, nor on anyone else, nor on a human flawed organization like TWI-1 or TWI-2, or CES, or CFF, or GRR, nor anything else but the INTERdependant Body of Christ. The potential for abuse is gone in mastering PFAL.
But for those students of WW or his ilk, it?s totally there.
Come back to the freedom of those books that Dr didn?t really author, but that he simply had the privilege of passing on to us.
It?s easy to be safe with God in believing in His Son and the resurrection. You?ll have no problem with His acceptance, but when it comes to the power, that?s a different story.
Going to heaven is fine, but to have God working in our lives NOW and in a most powerful way like he did with Jesus requires us to master the written Word like Jesus did.
There are no translations that are accurate enough to do that kind of mastery with. The logic we need to decide on is either:
(a) God has fixed this problem with Dr?s writings, or
(b) He fixed it with someone else?s writings we don?t know about yet, or
Whether you want the power or not, whether you get the power or not, does not affect His FREE gift of eternal life that believing Romans 10:9 and 10.
Some great consolation can be seen in how well almost all flawed Bible versions agree with what Dr taught us about Romans 10:9 and 10. These verses are not a problem, so have a great day rejoicing that you have eternal life.
Like WW's inaccurate portrayals of my position, you too have butchered my posts.
You forgot to include that I thought the same of Mickey Mantle. The tail end of the bell curves that measure human abilities has THOUSANDS of men like Dr and Mickey.
Please don't over-abreviate in how you portray me. It will make you look real bad when people get the fuller story.
Butchered it? It was a DIRECT QUOTE. Here's the whole paragraph from your post of April 15, 2003:
quote:When he walked with satan he did great bad. It's that way with all of the extremes of the human bell curve. He was given an overdose of brains and brawn; wherever he walked the ground shook. There are people born in the population who are like that, genetically gifted, even over gifted. If these prodigies don?t burn out in adolescence or their early twenties then they go on to do either great good or evil with their natural abilities, usually more evil except more and more subtle so as to hide it. Dr, spent an inordinate amount of time in the good side compared to other members of his physical class, and some of us benefited greatly... for a while.
Has your opinion of VPW changed since then?
The Secret Signature of the Day has been cancelled by the HTML Police.
and, you know, being obedient to do the things written in scriptures (or other people's interpretation of it), really screwed up a lot of things for me
That is only the FIRST of many posts I did in response to you and others freaking out that I would thgink Dr had a good set of genetics.
Why did you cut only that one post out with your dull butcher cleaver? You are handling my posts deceitfully by not telling the whole story. Others can see through this simpleminded ploy.
Roy, Mike has ignored Dawktor's pronoucnement from the throne, Keeeds, that "God watches over His Word". Mike chooses to urinate all over that one. Mike, be true to your idol, willya?
Roy, the English versions of the Bible, particularly the KJV, NKJV are extremely reliable. By reading prayerfully, with faith, you will learn from the Lord himself. He will speak to you through those scriptures if you ask Him. Pay no attention to Mike's faith blasting...
As long as we're on the topic of prodigous genetic endowment, I feel compelled to say that, well, I'm gifted with a good set of genetics. Serious set going here. Not in a way I can discuss politely, but the ground does shake wherever I share. Really. Honest. Not just saying that. No kiddin'. I wish I could share it with everyone but it wouldn't be right. You'll just have to take my word on my set. ; )
Jesus, I'll dance before your throne, bring this heavenly sound to You alone
This song within me Lord will bless your Holy Name
So you believe that God was inspiring VPW and not Satan? That is interesting. I think VPW's books were a poor attempt by a sick man to be loved by someone or anyone who would notice.
The sad thing is I would have given him a hug without all the BS he spread around to get it and I am sure others would have also. Even if it meant having to shower afterwards.
Well Exerino, boz baby would have! if he could have! (I can't edit from work for some reason, so I gotta go do these quick reply thingies)
Oh yeah. My genetic cup runneth over. Prodigous is an understatement. WE got yer set here, bab-eh. Ground shaking? When my set goes off scientists rate it on the Richter Scale. You need EarthQUAKE COVERAGE to cover possible damages. We're talkin' cracks in the sidewalk, pictures falling off the wall, the whole deal. When you've been geneticized by the sockster, you're actually speeding up evolution, new species crop up in record time.
Oh yeah.
Well, back to the grind. Metaphorically speaking.
: )
Jesus, I'll dance before your throne, bring this heavenly sound to You alone
This song within me Lord will bless your Holy Name
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early2it
Continued from last post....
Not that I see any harm in praying every day or tithing or any of the other stuff. But suppose God's will for me is different and while I am praying I should be working on a book and instead of tithing I should be saving for retirement. By being obedient to do the things written in the scriptures I am actually blinding myself to what God would really have me do.
I even think this is the essence of what was happening with the tower of babel. All humanity was almost made blind to Gods will by a few individuals who were using the things that in their day and time pasted for scripture.
They were claiming to have God's word and will for everyone and building a headquarters. The only difference I think between then and now is they were trying not only to make themselves the one great religion but also the one great government. Thus the phrase.....a city and a tower.
Still won't let me make a single post...
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excathedra
that's okay, i don't like long posts
:)-->
?
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early2it
ExC,
What do you think about this bible stuff. Should you obey what is written? How would you find God's will? What do you think?
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Zixar
Roy: You may not have been around the last time Mike was doing his evangelizing, so you might not know that he holds VPW in, um, an unusually high esteem:
It's up to you, but you might find discussing these things with him will be a complete waste of breath.God bless!
Zix
The Secret Signature of the Day has been cancelled by the HTML Police.
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excathedra
well early, let me say first i hate religion and "men" telling me what they think god wants for me
i talk to god just about every day about life
i also believe in jesus christ and his resurrection
my main confusion is: would i know about god or jesus if there wasn't a "bible" ? or people preaching or talking about it ?
but even if that's the only way i can know, i still have a problem with taking all of it literally
i hope this makes sense and answers your question
ps. at this point in my life, i have to hang on to the hope and belief that his love for me is good enough to let him (himself) work in me / my life
?
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Tom Strange
6er stop! it's not time for intermission yet!
... I've been here and I've been there and I've been in between...
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Mike
Zixar,
Like WW's inaccurate portrayals of my position, you too have butchered my posts.
You forgot to include that I thought the same of Mickey Mantle. The tail end of the bell curves that measure human abilities has THOUSANDS of men like Dr and Mickey.
Please don't over-abreviate in how you portray me. It will make you look real bad when people get the fuller story.
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early2it
ExC,
You always make sense to me. You are like a chocolate milk shake. I don't care what the health nazi's say. You are just to dammed good to give up.
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Mike
early2it,
You wrote: ?This is what I see to be the main way in which people are made to be subject to men and their nonsense.?
I think we concur on some of this.
I see WW and many others operating in this mode, at least unconsciously. Let me explain.
Everyone knows that for the average Joe and Jane, buying any version of the Bible and trying to make sense of it is very difficult, ESPECIALLY if they?re fairly new to it and had little exposure to it while young. Buying a paraphrased version is what many do, but we know there are LOTS of problems with paraphrased translations. A better word than ?paraphrase? would be ?regurgitated.?
So there?s a huge bulk of the population who need help with getting translation problems and cultural biases out of their reading and study.
Along comes a wordy prolific writer/speaker like WW or any of the dozen ?ministers? who practice their trade here on GreaseSpot. They laud the Bible to the sky, saying how accurate and good it is. Actually, in reality, they are lauding THEMSELVES and their ability to sort through the hodgepodge that men have put together in their versions labeling the cover ?Holy Bible? even though it?s only a large set of their opinions, some right some wrong.
The newbee or average Joe sees this minister as a way to get the answers for their version?s difficult passages. As the minister teaches, they grow dependant on his insights. Their only rule for faith and practice is not their version, but the combo of book/minister.
There?s nothing inherently wrong with this process, except for the unfortunate fact that the minister only has part of the story correct, and his inability to do all the things Jesus Christ is proof, but the students are never taught that one. The minister may be as sincere and semi-pure in motives, or he may be diabolically setting them up, or he may have a mixture of good days and bad days.
No matter how noble the ministers attempts, he never really raises the dead, and his students never do either. The students are dependant on the minister. It?s been this way for 2000 years.
Sounds a little like Dr and us, doesn?t it? It IS like Dr and us, except God stepped in and was able to work with Dr?s peculiar mentality and drive to FINALLY get it all right and in writing. Dr tells us this in a few places at a few times, but after 40 years he steps aside in 1982, saying that the project is done, starting to end the dependant relationship with his students. No one listens. He spends the next 2 and a half years augmenting all that he had taught, and ends his life with a final exhortation to us to master the PFAL writings.
Dr is now gone and has been for almost 20 years. The writings God gave him are as simple as any paraphrase and even simpler, only totally accurate. We are no longer dependant on the man Dr, but we all, newbies, and average Janes and Joes, ALL of us can read it for ourselves, master it, and receive Jesus Christ?s teaching on the deeper spiritual meanings God implanted in those books to get us up from dead churchianity.
With Dr gone, there?s no dependency for us students on him and his flesh, nor on anyone else, nor on a human flawed organization like TWI-1 or TWI-2, or CES, or CFF, or GRR, nor anything else but the INTERdependant Body of Christ. The potential for abuse is gone in mastering PFAL.
But for those students of WW or his ilk, it?s totally there.
Come back to the freedom of those books that Dr didn?t really author, but that he simply had the privilege of passing on to us.
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Mike
Exy,
It?s easy to be safe with God in believing in His Son and the resurrection. You?ll have no problem with His acceptance, but when it comes to the power, that?s a different story.
Going to heaven is fine, but to have God working in our lives NOW and in a most powerful way like he did with Jesus requires us to master the written Word like Jesus did.
There are no translations that are accurate enough to do that kind of mastery with. The logic we need to decide on is either:
(a) God has fixed this problem with Dr?s writings, or
(b) He fixed it with someone else?s writings we don?t know about yet, or
© There is no fix and we?ll never see that power Jesus said we should have.
Whether you want the power or not, whether you get the power or not, does not affect His FREE gift of eternal life that believing Romans 10:9 and 10.
Some great consolation can be seen in how well almost all flawed Bible versions agree with what Dr taught us about Romans 10:9 and 10. These verses are not a problem, so have a great day rejoicing that you have eternal life.
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Zixar
The Secret Signature of the Day has been cancelled by the HTML Police.
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Mike
Exy,
I have noticed that there are more spelling varities for terms of endearment for you than any other poster here.
Maybe God's trying to tell you something.
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excathedra
thank you early
:)-->
and, you know, being obedient to do the things written in scriptures (or other people's interpretation of it), really screwed up a lot of things for me
?
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Mike
Zixar,
That is only the FIRST of many posts I did in response to you and others freaking out that I would thgink Dr had a good set of genetics.
Why did you cut only that one post out with your dull butcher cleaver? You are handling my posts deceitfully by not telling the whole story. Others can see through this simpleminded ploy.
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excathedra
what's he trying to tell me, mike
:)--> ?
?
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TheEvan
Roy, Mike has ignored Dawktor's pronoucnement from the throne, Keeeds, that "God watches over His Word". Mike chooses to urinate all over that one. Mike, be true to your idol, willya?
Roy, the English versions of the Bible, particularly the KJV, NKJV are extremely reliable. By reading prayerfully, with faith, you will learn from the Lord himself. He will speak to you through those scriptures if you ask Him. Pay no attention to Mike's faith blasting...
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socks
Hey dawayback, see what sincerity does? : )))
As long as we're on the topic of prodigous genetic endowment, I feel compelled to say that, well, I'm gifted with a good set of genetics. Serious set going here. Not in a way I can discuss politely, but the ground does shake wherever I share. Really. Honest. Not just saying that. No kiddin'. I wish I could share it with everyone but it wouldn't be right. You'll just have to take my word on my set. ; )
Jesus, I'll dance before your throne, bring this heavenly sound to You alone
This song within me Lord will bless your Holy Name
(boz scaggs)
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early2it
Mike,
So you believe that God was inspiring VPW and not Satan? That is interesting. I think VPW's books were a poor attempt by a sick man to be loved by someone or anyone who would notice.
The sad thing is I would have given him a hug without all the BS he spread around to get it and I am sure others would have also. Even if it meant having to shower afterwards.
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socks
(actually, it's Hillsongs not Boz Scaggs...) He heee!
Jesus, I'll dance before your throne, bring this heavenly sound to You alone
This song within me Lord will bless your Holy Name
(boz scaggs)
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excathedra
oh johnnysocks you make me shake with laughter !!!!! ha ha ha ha ha ha
boz scaggs said that ?
?
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GarthP2000
Just when you thought it was safe to discuss any sincere answers re: VPW, .... Smikeol shows up to defend his precioussss.
-->
Zix, Roy, watch your hands, dudes. I heard he has a taste for fingers.
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
www.gapstudioweb.com
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socks
Well Exerino, boz baby would have! if he could have! (I can't edit from work for some reason, so I gotta go do these quick reply thingies)
Oh yeah. My genetic cup runneth over. Prodigous is an understatement. WE got yer set here, bab-eh. Ground shaking? When my set goes off scientists rate it on the Richter Scale. You need EarthQUAKE COVERAGE to cover possible damages. We're talkin' cracks in the sidewalk, pictures falling off the wall, the whole deal. When you've been geneticized by the sockster, you're actually speeding up evolution, new species crop up in record time.
Oh yeah.
Well, back to the grind. Metaphorically speaking.
: )
Jesus, I'll dance before your throne, bring this heavenly sound to You alone
This song within me Lord will bless your Holy Name
(boz scaggs)
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GarthP2000
Socks,
You give a whole new meaning to the phrase 'break dancing', guy.
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
www.gapstudioweb.com
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Hopefull
Socks, after that post I am fighting off an insane desire to flirt with you...
"If The Way hates it, it has to be Good."
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