However, a fund that can be administered via the internet would be a terrific option. The board could meet via many internet options. The funds could be transferred via many internet options. People needing the assistance would be connected to people in the area either willing to open their own homes or help find housing in the area. It takes the burden of day-to-day responsibility off of the organization's shoulders...and it gives the recipients the opportunity to de-institutionalize themselves.
And one more thing a fund could do...
It could simply make monetary awards to organizations already in existence.
While TWI might still have its tentacles embedded in the brains of certain NK officials, (as evidenced by the vandalism of the billboard put up a couple of years back) I doubt that they'd have quite the same freedom to harass folks in Dayton. Most of my NBW relatives in Dayton were either apathetic or suspicious of TWI to begin with, and LCM's tenure made enough newspaper coverage to push all of them towards the latter.
Besides, we already know that TWI monitors this site, as evidenced by the letter they sent to Paw over Mrs. Wierwille's convalescence. They know we're reaching far more people than ever post here, and that's their biggest fear. Bad publicity (such as would come from harassing halfway house residents) would only breed more discontent among the ranks.
The multi-cult idea is brilliant, turning the focus away from a few folks with a seeming grudge to a broad-scope non-denominational service facility. The fact that such a place would happen to be in TWI's own backyard, well, maybe that's just a happy coincidence... ;)-->
The Secret Signature of the Day has been cancelled by the HTML Police.
putting such a home anywhere near NK would be a mistake, anywhere in ohio even. it gives people who leave one day and find it's not easy to leave the opportunity to go back fast. when they get back and find they aren't welcome back and have to return to the home thats set up, it's doubtful that they will and go off on their own to find another solution. getting out is hard enough for some people, but to be thrust into the gen population with no help could prove to be an edge you wouldn't want to push anyone to.
it is my personal belief, along with the belief of many people in the halfway house business, it's best to set up a contact near the org in question so that when someone wants out, theres someone to tell them where to go and how to get there and what will happen once they get there.
is this idea something people here really want to do? if so lets set up some kind of meeting online, maybe in the chat room, and see where it takes us.
papajohn: I hadn't thought of that. Still, it's not like a forceful deprogramming. Shouldn't the participants have the choice to leave the halfway house when they choose? I guess I don't see it like a criminal HH, or a rehab-type HH. Battered-women's shelters operate in cities where the possibility exists that an abuse victim may get cold feet about leaving her abuser and go back. I don't see that as a deal-breaker for locating it relatively near NK, I just see it as free will. Of course, I have no hands-on experience with any of these type of situations, so I'll defer to those who have greater knowledge.
The Secret Signature of the Day has been cancelled by the HTML Police.
As far as putting these homes at locations only for HQ and Gunn, I disagree. There are many many people that live together all over the country. Myself, I lived with my TC for a couple of years. Yes, I had a job, but not a great one where I could easily relocate quickly. Had I been M&Aed, I would have had to leave right away, and find myself on the streets for a few days.
I think locations should be available in cities where the Way has a strong presence. Heck I would even throw open my extra room as a transition place.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood"..........but hey, I love to see a good Clothesline once in a while
I think 'net meetings are probably the best way to go about things for now. However I also think that it needs to be done in a less public arena such as AOL messenger chat or something like that. Heck, the PT's here should be private enough...shouldn't they?
I'm still very leery of an actual house for the reasons I stated above, but I will help no matter what the decision.
I didn't mean anything forceful, I meant that some people may find it hard to be that close to NK.
if theres a meeting about this, please post a time at least 3 days in advance so people can see when it is.
also, theres a program called mIRC thats free and you can create your own chatroom thats invite only or locked and the only way to get in is to know the password.
I think the best way to do something like this, and maybe the only way, would be to run it like an underground railroad.
we'd need about 5 to 7 people who would commit a room in their home to someone who wants to get out and get on with life. these homes would best case be in larger cities with job opportunities, but the person being helped will need to have the space of a few weeks to a few months free of charge as a grieving time. after this time they will need to start out with a newer life by activly looking for a job and from what I've read heard and talked to others about since I've been coming here, hard work for someone in TWI is a walk in the park. once a person starts bringing home a paycheck their selfesteme will go up. they would then have a set time limit on finding a new place to live maybe within a short distance of the safehouse they lived in so they can keep that person in their circe of support. if they want to move farther away thats up to them.
what you have to remember above everything else is that this is a commitment. not just for a few weeks or months, but possibly years, of course the up side is you're helping someone and you've made the difference in a family members life.
as far as donations, I don't see that happening really. most people don't donate like they used to and the ones that still do don't care about the tax deduction. anyone who is going to commit the kind of maney it takes to do this is going to do it just 'cause. I think what we would have to do is commit to keeping one person in your home and streach your own dollars to feed them and 'whatever' comes up before they can find a job and save money while contributing to the house for food only.
it can be done, it can be rewarding, but who knows, no one may want to use the service. even if one person wants to though, I'm sure we would all be willing to do it.
as far as donations, I don't see that happening really. most people don't donate like they used to and the ones that still do don't care about the tax deduction. anyone who is going to commit the kind of maney it takes to do this is going to do it just 'cause.
I disagree with your statement about donations 'cause we do give and it does matter if it is tax deductible, for us. Probably more around like us too who would contribute to the cause if something were setup.
I guess what I'm trying to say is MOST people, not all people.
if we're talking about housing one or 2 people through this, at a time, maybe we could do it without the donations. but then if everyone else involved wants to go the other way thats ok 'wiff' me.
you know more people here than I do and maybe you can get more feedback from them than I can.
There will be an immediate culture shock when first coming out of twi, but remember that all of us here did OK. It's not advisable to create another dependency situation...and it is human nature to do better when relying upon oneself. I think that a couple of weeks of recuperation and adjustment would be acceptable. If people need more than that, there are other programs in nearly every community. Also, there are always small hotels in every town that are struggling and will work with an organization on weekly and monthly rates.
As for jobs/income, part of the structure of the organization might ought to include partnerships with businesses that would agree to hire and train (if needed) folks. OJT is a big tax reduction for businesses...especially if the person hired is low- to moderate-income because the employer pays only half of the taxes for the first year.
And there's no need to re-invent the wheel...there are many, many programs already in place to help people in such situations. Pride may keep people from utilizing such programs, but the programs available include assistance with medical, housing, food, training/re-training, day care, transportation (most programs include repair and gasoline monies...some will even buy a vehicle), etc. Welfare is simply no longer a hand-out program...if an adult is not working, an adult is spending 40 hours a week looking for work either by hitting the streets or at Job Service centers preparing resumes, setting interview appointments, increasing skills, taking classes, or what have you. The follow-up to ensure that a person is doing these things is intense...there's no getting around it without having your benefits immediately stopped. Some of the best entry level jobs in an area go to welfare-to-work participants.
Whatever type of effort comes from all of this, I think that the most effective will be an organization that will pull together all of a community's resources.
It sounds great cool waters. But when I was in twi it was totally unexeptable to get help from places your suggesting. And even though I was poor after twi it was still engrained in me not to get that kind of help. Maybe that part can be part of the transitional help we can suggest to these people?
If you do not tell the truth about yourself you can not tell it about other people.
I guess I just don't understand why donations are needed for this. it's not like we're talking big money to run this, all we're doing is helping people go from point a to point b.
Yes, it is a difficult place in people's heads after twi. It would certainly have to be only a suggestion offered as a resource option.
What I was thinking was that it would be a mistake to carry people financially for more than a couple or so weeks because that would simply cause a transfer of dependency from twi to whoever was helping the people.
*********************
PapaJohn,
The discussion so far has been mostly about actual living arrangements to help people for anywhere from a couple of weeks to a few months.
Quite frankly, I don't know many people who could afford the financial responsibility without help.
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Don'tFenceMeIn
Does anyone know what the percentage of folks leaving has gotten to now?
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waterbuffalo
Wow! PapaJohn! That's quite a commitment! Are you sure you're up for that (letting 'em stay there at your house 'till they get something else?)
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pawtucket
thanks Zix..
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CoolWaters
Based upon my experience with 501©3 organizations (about 17+ years), I would like to recommend that people look at setting up a fund.
A specific location is almost out of the question, imo, simply because of the logistics involved. There would have to be full time staff (maintenance and grounds people, manager, etc), transportation to and from the location, insurance out the ying yang (not just typical homeowner's insurance, either), city (possibly county and state as well) permits would have to be obtained and zoning may have to be changed. Anything done needing government involvement would most likely come with required public hearings as well. Often there are requirements that include showing what kind of rules and guidelines will be used to guarantee to the neighbors that the house will not become a nuisance. Then, of course, a board of directors would be needed...which would then require knowing the open meetings rules of the area. Lots of things to think about when operating a 501©3 that involves a specific housing location.
However, a fund that can be administered via the internet would be a terrific option. The board could meet via many internet options. The funds could be transferred via many internet options. People needing the assistance would be connected to people in the area either willing to open their own homes or help find housing in the area. It takes the burden of day-to-day responsibility off of the organization's shoulders...and it gives the recipients the opportunity to de-institutionalize themselves.
And one more thing a fund could do...
It could simply make monetary awards to organizations already in existence.
Just some thoughts...for what they're worth.
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papajohn
yes I'm sure. my home is open to anyone with a need.
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Zixar
While TWI might still have its tentacles embedded in the brains of certain NK officials, (as evidenced by the vandalism of the billboard put up a couple of years back) I doubt that they'd have quite the same freedom to harass folks in Dayton. Most of my NBW relatives in Dayton were either apathetic or suspicious of TWI to begin with, and LCM's tenure made enough newspaper coverage to push all of them towards the latter.
Besides, we already know that TWI monitors this site, as evidenced by the letter they sent to Paw over Mrs. Wierwille's convalescence. They know we're reaching far more people than ever post here, and that's their biggest fear. Bad publicity (such as would come from harassing halfway house residents) would only breed more discontent among the ranks.
The multi-cult idea is brilliant, turning the focus away from a few folks with a seeming grudge to a broad-scope non-denominational service facility. The fact that such a place would happen to be in TWI's own backyard, well, maybe that's just a happy coincidence...
;)-->
The Secret Signature of the Day has been cancelled by the HTML Police.
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papajohn
putting such a home anywhere near NK would be a mistake, anywhere in ohio even. it gives people who leave one day and find it's not easy to leave the opportunity to go back fast. when they get back and find they aren't welcome back and have to return to the home thats set up, it's doubtful that they will and go off on their own to find another solution. getting out is hard enough for some people, but to be thrust into the gen population with no help could prove to be an edge you wouldn't want to push anyone to.
it is my personal belief, along with the belief of many people in the halfway house business, it's best to set up a contact near the org in question so that when someone wants out, theres someone to tell them where to go and how to get there and what will happen once they get there.
is this idea something people here really want to do? if so lets set up some kind of meeting online, maybe in the chat room, and see where it takes us.
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Zixar
papajohn: I hadn't thought of that. Still, it's not like a forceful deprogramming. Shouldn't the participants have the choice to leave the halfway house when they choose? I guess I don't see it like a criminal HH, or a rehab-type HH. Battered-women's shelters operate in cities where the possibility exists that an abuse victim may get cold feet about leaving her abuser and go back. I don't see that as a deal-breaker for locating it relatively near NK, I just see it as free will. Of course, I have no hands-on experience with any of these type of situations, so I'll defer to those who have greater knowledge.
The Secret Signature of the Day has been cancelled by the HTML Police.
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WrestlenotAgainst
As far as putting these homes at locations only for HQ and Gunn, I disagree. There are many many people that live together all over the country. Myself, I lived with my TC for a couple of years. Yes, I had a job, but not a great one where I could easily relocate quickly. Had I been M&Aed, I would have had to leave right away, and find myself on the streets for a few days.
I think locations should be available in cities where the Way has a strong presence. Heck I would even throw open my extra room as a transition place.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood"..........but hey, I love to see a good Clothesline once in a while
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CoolWaters
papajohn,
I am more than just interested. I would be happy to help however is needed. I, too, have extensive experience with 501©3 organizations. In fact, I am setting up a new one right now.
I think 'net meetings are probably the best way to go about things for now. However I also think that it needs to be done in a less public arena such as AOL messenger chat or something like that. Heck, the PT's here should be private enough...shouldn't they?
I'm still very leery of an actual house for the reasons I stated above, but I will help no matter what the decision.
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waterbuffalo
Coolwaters and Zixar have some good points and pappajohn, great idea that we should setup a time and meet in the chatroom and discuss it further. Setting up a 501©3 sounds like the way to go...then all donations are tax-deductible and there would be a board of directors to administer it.
Can we make it next week for the meeting as I will not be online for a few days due to a death in my family.
WB
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papajohn
I didn't mean anything forceful, I meant that some people may find it hard to be that close to NK.
if theres a meeting about this, please post a time at least 3 days in advance so people can see when it is.
also, theres a program called mIRC thats free and you can create your own chatroom thats invite only or locked and the only way to get in is to know the password.
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waterbuffalo
Could someone who knows how to do it setup the meeting for next wk. and let us know privately the password?
WB
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papajohn
I think the best way to do something like this, and maybe the only way, would be to run it like an underground railroad.
we'd need about 5 to 7 people who would commit a room in their home to someone who wants to get out and get on with life. these homes would best case be in larger cities with job opportunities, but the person being helped will need to have the space of a few weeks to a few months free of charge as a grieving time. after this time they will need to start out with a newer life by activly looking for a job and from what I've read heard and talked to others about since I've been coming here, hard work for someone in TWI is a walk in the park. once a person starts bringing home a paycheck their selfesteme will go up. they would then have a set time limit on finding a new place to live maybe within a short distance of the safehouse they lived in so they can keep that person in their circe of support. if they want to move farther away thats up to them.
what you have to remember above everything else is that this is a commitment. not just for a few weeks or months, but possibly years, of course the up side is you're helping someone and you've made the difference in a family members life.
as far as donations, I don't see that happening really. most people don't donate like they used to and the ones that still do don't care about the tax deduction. anyone who is going to commit the kind of maney it takes to do this is going to do it just 'cause. I think what we would have to do is commit to keeping one person in your home and streach your own dollars to feed them and 'whatever' comes up before they can find a job and save money while contributing to the house for food only.
it can be done, it can be rewarding, but who knows, no one may want to use the service. even if one person wants to though, I'm sure we would all be willing to do it.
your thoughts?
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papajohn
got quiet on this thread, why?
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waterbuffalo
Papajohn,
Hi, I'm back! You said...
as far as donations, I don't see that happening really. most people don't donate like they used to and the ones that still do don't care about the tax deduction. anyone who is going to commit the kind of maney it takes to do this is going to do it just 'cause.
I disagree with your statement about donations 'cause we do give and it does matter if it is tax deductible, for us. Probably more around like us too who would contribute to the cause if something were setup.
WB
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papajohn
welcome back WB
:)-->
I guess what I'm trying to say is MOST people, not all people.
if we're talking about housing one or 2 people through this, at a time, maybe we could do it without the donations. but then if everyone else involved wants to go the other way thats ok 'wiff' me.
you know more people here than I do and maybe you can get more feedback from them than I can.
let me know what you think we could do.
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CoolWaters
I'm pretty sure that most extwi folks would donate something. Beyond donations, if a 501©3 were formed then other funding sources could be utilized. There is a big push at the Fed level for faith-based recovery programs. (Being faith-based does not mean that the recipients would be required to participate in any religious training or activities.)
There will be an immediate culture shock when first coming out of twi, but remember that all of us here did OK. It's not advisable to create another dependency situation...and it is human nature to do better when relying upon oneself. I think that a couple of weeks of recuperation and adjustment would be acceptable. If people need more than that, there are other programs in nearly every community. Also, there are always small hotels in every town that are struggling and will work with an organization on weekly and monthly rates.
As for jobs/income, part of the structure of the organization might ought to include partnerships with businesses that would agree to hire and train (if needed) folks. OJT is a big tax reduction for businesses...especially if the person hired is low- to moderate-income because the employer pays only half of the taxes for the first year.
And there's no need to re-invent the wheel...there are many, many programs already in place to help people in such situations. Pride may keep people from utilizing such programs, but the programs available include assistance with medical, housing, food, training/re-training, day care, transportation (most programs include repair and gasoline monies...some will even buy a vehicle), etc. Welfare is simply no longer a hand-out program...if an adult is not working, an adult is spending 40 hours a week looking for work either by hitting the streets or at Job Service centers preparing resumes, setting interview appointments, increasing skills, taking classes, or what have you. The follow-up to ensure that a person is doing these things is intense...there's no getting around it without having your benefits immediately stopped. Some of the best entry level jobs in an area go to welfare-to-work participants.
Whatever type of effort comes from all of this, I think that the most effective will be an organization that will pull together all of a community's resources.
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vickles
It sounds great cool waters. But when I was in twi it was totally unexeptable to get help from places your suggesting. And even though I was poor after twi it was still engrained in me not to get that kind of help. Maybe that part can be part of the transitional help we can suggest to these people?
If you do not tell the truth about yourself you can not tell it about other people.
virginia woolfe
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papajohn
I guess I just don't understand why donations are needed for this. it's not like we're talking big money to run this, all we're doing is helping people go from point a to point b.
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CoolWaters
Vickles,
Yes, it is a difficult place in people's heads after twi. It would certainly have to be only a suggestion offered as a resource option.
What I was thinking was that it would be a mistake to carry people financially for more than a couple or so weeks because that would simply cause a transfer of dependency from twi to whoever was helping the people.
*********************
PapaJohn,
The discussion so far has been mostly about actual living arrangements to help people for anywhere from a couple of weeks to a few months.
Quite frankly, I don't know many people who could afford the financial responsibility without help.
If there are people who can, or if the goal is to simply get people from point A to point B, then perhaps what needs to be done is simply gathering those names on a list, have one contact person with that list, and somehow getting that contact person's name/info out to those leaving twi...and this talk of a 501©3 or of safe homes or whatever would be pointless.
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Ginger Tea
I'm very sorry to hear about the death in your family.
I wish the sweetest, comforting solace come to you and yours soon.
Love,
Ginger
...carry on
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Ginger Tea
Some people I know real well, and including myself, might be able to give a re-entry enviornment to a single or couple after the initial 'leave'.
Like in a network scenario ~
Where one or two come to where there is guaranteed work, and support while they get on their feet and prepare to move on.
I'm sure we can have this 'network' expansive ~ since the further away some can tolerate going, may be the better, or at least back to their roots!
I'm 'in' on that level...and for contributing to your cause.
Let me know when your chatting it up and I'll do what I can to show up and lock-in.
I think this is a generous, worthwhile endeavor.
Good luck to the planners...
I can help in other ways, if re-enrty isn't part of the scenario, for now.
Ginger
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Tom Strange
yeah... what Ginger said... keep us posted as to what the needs are... either here or via email...
... I've been here and I've been there and I've been in between...
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