Was that suppose to include the Greek letters?? Cause I know my web browser (IE6) is not showing them..
I'm guessing from the letters I can recognize it is just John 1:1 ??
en archE En (h)o logos
kai (h)o logos En pros ton theon
kai theos En (h)o logos.
Course is this suppose to be another Trinitarian or Trunitarian or Unitarian debate??
At least we can all agree on the first clause! The word was in the beginning, right??
Then I guess "some" people disagree with the definition of Pros.. But seeing that greek prepositions are mostly detemined by their object's case, and "ton theon" being accusative (going from memory and could be wrong), and pros having the definition of 'near or in proximity" and with genitive objects adding action away from the proximity, dative not adding any more action than resting near the proximity, and accusative objects adding action toward the proximity.. And I think KJV can't be too far off with 'and the word was with God".. But then, I could be wrong! Wouldn't be the 1st, and I'm sure it has surpassed the millionth time since.
And the last clause being probably the most hotly contested. Since we have Cowell's rule, and whether or not it applies. If you ask me, Colwell's rule, while mainly for deciding authenticity of writings rather than grammar itself, still has a great grammatical point as I think it is just a logical one at that and a rule of how pre-verbal anarthrous nouns especially for predicate nouns can be more than just adjectival in nature. But since the rule can't be used to determine the definitiveness of the noun, we are left up to speculation, and every person's whim or opinion.. So it can be as KJV says, "The word was God" and add the article silently in front of the anarthrous noun. Or we can leave it as be in the Greek, and translate it like you would normally translate a predicate nominative and thus The word, logos, no longer IS or WAS (En) God, but instead theos would be considered more an adjective and thus godly. But since only a few other verses did translaters translate theos as "godly" in other verses (as an adjective) and I think remembering looking at those, they could be translated differently, then whose to really say definitely whether The word is godly, or is God! Does it have the qualities and attributes (functions as an adjective) or is it because Colwell and even grammar itself says it doesn't HAVE to have a article to be translated the other way.
So we just can just go around and around with this one. I think.. Opinions, opinions..
My opinion.. Well, I think it is talking about God's word. And says what it says, and means what it means. Logos being different than rhema, and thus not just God's spoken words but his intent and heart was all godly and in the beginning with Him since the start. And it was via His words that all things became in existince. Isn't that what Genesis says?
So if you ask me, John 1 is like Genesis 1, and they both work together speaking of God and His word and will that created it all.
But as I said before, That's my opinion and I am human and thus could be WRONG!!
Was that suppose to include the Greek letters?? Cause I know my web browser (IE6) is not showing them..
I'm guessing from the letters I can recognize it is just John 1:1 ??
en archE En (h)o logos
kai (h)o logos En pros ton theon
kai theos En (h)o logos.
Course is this suppose to be another Trinitarian or Trunitarian or Unitarian debate??
At least we can all agree on the first clause! The word was in the beginning, right??
Then I guess "some" people disagree with the definition of Pros.. But seeing that greek prepositions are mostly detemined by their object's case, and "ton theon" being accusative (going from memory and could be wrong), and pros having the definition of 'near or in proximity" and with genitive objects adding action away from the proximity, dative not adding any more action than resting near the proximity, and accusative objects adding action toward the proximity.. And I think KJV can't be too far off with 'and the word was with God".. But then, I could be wrong! Wouldn't be the 1st, and I'm sure it has surpassed the millionth time since.
And the last clause being probably the most hotly contested. Since we have Cowell's rule, and whether or not it applies. If you ask me, Colwell's rule, while mainly for deciding authenticity of writings rather than grammar itself, still has a great grammatical point as I think it is just a logical one at that and a rule of how pre-verbal anarthrous nouns especially for predicate nouns can be more than just adjectival in nature. But since the rule can't be used to determine the definitiveness of the noun, we are left up to speculation, and every person's whim or opinion.. So it can be as KJV says, "The word was God" and add the article silently in front of the anarthrous noun. Or we can leave it as be in the Greek, and translate it like you would normally translate a predicate nominative and thus The word, logos, no longer IS or WAS (En) God, but instead theos would be considered more an adjective and thus godly. But since only a few other verses did translaters translate theos as "godly" in other verses (as an adjective) and I think remembering looking at those, they could be translated differently, then whose to really say definitely whether The word is godly, or is God! Does it have the qualities and attributes (functions as an adjective) or is it because Colwell and even grammar itself says it doesn't HAVE to have a article to be translated the other way.
So we just can just go around and around with this one. I think.. Opinions, opinions..
OMG, I didn't know "Trust and Obey" that you were a seminary Professor???? Is the lecture over?
OK, Apparently, I can see my Greek lettering, but yu'all can't? RATS!
Ok, Mark Omalley, I can see your Greek letters. All right, what was wrong with my HTML code?
Marketing? Whatever are you talking about Sushi?
There are two ways you can do it. First is with the HTML font tag, like you used. Problem is, the person reading the page has to have that font installed on his computer. Most people don't have it instsalled.
The second way is to use extended ASCII. See this link.
ASCII(235) = δ, ASCII(224) = α, and so forth.
The easiest way to input it is to hold the alt key and then use your numeric keypad to enter the ascii number.
(Of course, I copied/pasted from a website, but that's a different issue. ;)
There are two ways you can do it. First is with the HTML font tag, like you used. Problem is, the person reading the page has to have that font installed on his computer. Most people don't have it instsalled.
The second way is to use extended ASCII. See this link.
ASCII(235) = δ, ASCII(224) = α, and so forth.
The easiest way to input it is to hold the alt key and then use your numeric keypad to enter the ascii number.
(Of course, I copied/pasted from a website, but that's a different issue. ;)
Ok, Mark Omalley, I clicked on your link to that Greek site, but I can't seem to copy and paste. Is there a special
Ok, Mark Omalley, I clicked on your link to that Greek site, but I can't seem to copy and paste. Is there a special
way on that site? I signed up to be a member.
For the zhubert.com website?
I've always just highlighted the text, right clicked, and selected copy.
The one trick about that is since each one of the words points toward a hyperlink, you need to start your process of selecting so that your mouse is not directly pointing on the word, but a little to the right or to the left of the word (if you're using Windows, the cursor will change from an arrow to a finger -- or however you have it set up -- when it senses the hyperlink...if it is sensing the hyperlink, move your cursor slightly until it isn't, then hold down your mouse key and start dragging)
(That's not a special feature of that site, but is common to any web site you'll hit with your browser)
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GarthP2000
Hhmmmm, ... it looks Klingon to me.
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Patrick and Sarah
I googled it.......
Your search - jEn ajarc\/h oJ lvogo~ |h pr;o~ to;n qeovn, kai; qeo;~ h\n Jo lvogo~< - did not match any documents.
Suggestions:
Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
Try different keywords.
Try more general keywords.
Try fewer keywords.
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TrustAndObey
Was that suppose to include the Greek letters?? Cause I know my web browser (IE6) is not showing them..
I'm guessing from the letters I can recognize it is just John 1:1 ??
en archE En (h)o logos
kai (h)o logos En pros ton theon
kai theos En (h)o logos.
Course is this suppose to be another Trinitarian or Trunitarian or Unitarian debate??
At least we can all agree on the first clause! The word was in the beginning, right??
Then I guess "some" people disagree with the definition of Pros.. But seeing that greek prepositions are mostly detemined by their object's case, and "ton theon" being accusative (going from memory and could be wrong), and pros having the definition of 'near or in proximity" and with genitive objects adding action away from the proximity, dative not adding any more action than resting near the proximity, and accusative objects adding action toward the proximity.. And I think KJV can't be too far off with 'and the word was with God".. But then, I could be wrong! Wouldn't be the 1st, and I'm sure it has surpassed the millionth time since.
And the last clause being probably the most hotly contested. Since we have Cowell's rule, and whether or not it applies. If you ask me, Colwell's rule, while mainly for deciding authenticity of writings rather than grammar itself, still has a great grammatical point as I think it is just a logical one at that and a rule of how pre-verbal anarthrous nouns especially for predicate nouns can be more than just adjectival in nature. But since the rule can't be used to determine the definitiveness of the noun, we are left up to speculation, and every person's whim or opinion.. So it can be as KJV says, "The word was God" and add the article silently in front of the anarthrous noun. Or we can leave it as be in the Greek, and translate it like you would normally translate a predicate nominative and thus The word, logos, no longer IS or WAS (En) God, but instead theos would be considered more an adjective and thus godly. But since only a few other verses did translaters translate theos as "godly" in other verses (as an adjective) and I think remembering looking at those, they could be translated differently, then whose to really say definitely whether The word is godly, or is God! Does it have the qualities and attributes (functions as an adjective) or is it because Colwell and even grammar itself says it doesn't HAVE to have a article to be translated the other way.
So we just can just go around and around with this one. I think.. Opinions, opinions..
My opinion.. Well, I think it is talking about God's word. And says what it says, and means what it means. Logos being different than rhema, and thus not just God's spoken words but his intent and heart was all godly and in the beginning with Him since the start. And it was via His words that all things became in existince. Isn't that what Genesis says?
So if you ask me, John 1 is like Genesis 1, and they both work together speaking of God and His word and will that created it all.
But as I said before, That's my opinion and I am human and thus could be WRONG!!
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Eyesopen
And THAT was just going from memory? Very nice!
Thanks, I think that was the most succint explanation of that particular clause that I have ever read.
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Sushi
You should go into marketing, bojc, I thought this was something COMPLETELY different.
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markomalley
Try this:
ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος
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brideofjc
OK, Apparently, I can see my Greek lettering, but yu'all can't? RATS!
Ok, Mark Omalley, I can see your Greek letters. All right, what was wrong with my HTML code?
Marketing? Whatever are you talking about Sushi?
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brideofjc
OMG, I didn't know "Trust and Obey" that you were a seminary Professor???? Is the lecture over?
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markomalley
There are two ways you can do it. First is with the HTML font tag, like you used. Problem is, the person reading the page has to have that font installed on his computer. Most people don't have it instsalled.
The second way is to use extended ASCII. See this link.
ASCII(235) = δ, ASCII(224) = α, and so forth.
The easiest way to input it is to hold the alt key and then use your numeric keypad to enter the ascii number.
(Of course, I copied/pasted from a website, but that's a different issue. ;)
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TrustAndObey
Sorry, my bad.. No more lectures today..
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brideofjc
Ok, Mark Omalley, I clicked on your link to that Greek site, but I can't seem to copy and paste. Is there a special
way on that site? I signed up to be a member.
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markomalley
For the zhubert.com website?
I've always just highlighted the text, right clicked, and selected copy.
The one trick about that is since each one of the words points toward a hyperlink, you need to start your process of selecting so that your mouse is not directly pointing on the word, but a little to the right or to the left of the word (if you're using Windows, the cursor will change from an arrow to a finger -- or however you have it set up -- when it senses the hyperlink...if it is sensing the hyperlink, move your cursor slightly until it isn't, then hold down your mouse key and start dragging)
(That's not a special feature of that site, but is common to any web site you'll hit with your browser)
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