OMG Wayward! LOL! I got roped into that once when back in 1979/80 when I first started going to fellowship. I was absolutely mortified.
A few years ago, some lady actually said to me. "Let's go witnessing together sometime." I said. "I don't do that." she said "God will tell you who to go up to." I said "God and me don't work like that together."
Honestly, I know he can put on your heart to share stuff with people at an appropriate time, but this stuff of just walking out and saying " OKAY GOD, I'm going to the mall.. SHOW ME WHO TO TALK TO" is something different alltogether. No way am I going to go along with that.
...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...
Just say: "I don't want to". It works in their faux kinder gentler attitude, but you have to be prepared to answer questions for inquiring minds that want to know (GAWD I hated that!!). What are they going to do? Kick you out? That would be no big deal. Hopefully you don't have a husband who has an inquiring mind. You know how the people in your area are. It worked for me.
LOL, Rottie! Maybe I should try those lines....when you put it that way, isn't that kind of like "seeking after signs and wonders?" I mean, isn't a planned witnessing night like that telling God what to do?
That's an interesting point, WaywordW. And yeah, I agree with you wholeheartedly it's like telling God what to do.
People have freedom of will. God knows that. Just because you decide to accost someone on the street, doesn't mean they are going to be in the mind frame to accept what you are going to say. In fact, just the very way it's done, I believe is inappropriate.
People are more likely to ask questions and seek answers if they feel non-threatened and comfortable with you. It's really something that needs to be played by ear.
Of course, you are dealing with people who have a certain mindset about the way things should be done. (like the lady I referred to) Some of these people are just very thick skinned and are so used to being blown off or discounted as weirdo's that no rejection is going to shake them. They just see another chalk mark in heaven for trying, at least.
But this is one area that I will tend to stick to my guns now when this comes up.(no matter what religion it is) I will not do something that makes me feel uncomfortable, makes ME feel foolish, and that I have seen very little profit it in.
And hey! If other people enjoy doing this sort of thing, and are good at it..well...More power to them! It's just not for me.
I'm still working on the courage to stick to my guns on other things...
Of course, as I said..you're working against a mindset there...
PS. One thing I want to point out, is that God will work with you as an individual. He knows that if this aint your bag, He isn't going to force you to do something you don't want to do. He want's to work with you just the way you are!
"billy joel here please"
Of course...I can just hear it now... "Step be-yond your comfort zone people!" -->
...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...
Let's see... what did I use... I used the headache and sick kids, or one of them had a major math test and I had to stay home to help them study.
Hmmmm - Oh - you have plans to witness to a neighbor who you've already invited over...
... the dog is vomiting (that's good about 1/2 hour before you're supposed to show up).
Or just don't go! Tell them you forgot, or wrote the wrong date down on your calendar, or didn't write it down at all, or you got home from work late and figured everyone would already be partnered up and out already!
That's just a few - I'll put my old thinking-cap on and see what else I can come up with...
Deviously yours,
Hope R. color>size>face>
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>
Well you are up against a lot. REv. R*pp just ended his last STS teaching with "And by our works we prove that we are Christ's."
This is where this things is headed. When they asked back in late december if every one attending was into doing a count they really weren't asking. Telling and asking how you feel about it is much different than dialogue.
The truth is I have witnessed to more people in the couple weeks since I started coming here than I have in the last 3 years. Once you start getting the funk out of your mind and get back to what does the Bible really say YOU WILL HAVE SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT.
I don't give a darn about "getting someone to a fellowship". The point of getting "someone to a fellowship" is for them to hear the word. That can be done in a variety of contexts as proven by J.C. You can argue one way or the other about the "best" place to learn - and most would agree the best place to learn is where there is a willing student and a willing teacher --- (Philip and the Eunuch on the chariot ring a bell?)
You can try to go the legislating spirituality route but demanding works to prove you are spiritual to me is the equivalent of requiring me to be circumsized. Now believing without works is dead but works with out love are dead before they get off the ground also.
So which is it with TWI??? If they stress performance of works OVER the grace god gives to all of us and our response to god's love then it is wrong IMO.
[This message was edited by troubledwine on January 29, 2003 at 13:04.]
I've already used the headache and sick kid excuses. Anyone got some others I can use?
Don't make excuses, don't lie to them. Just tell them you can't go, or that you don't want to go, or that you have other things to do.
If they bother you about it, ask them why they want you to set aside a certain day to witness when you thought that you were supposed to be a witness by the example you live and to talk to people you meet in everyday life.
Are you really required to go? I LOATHED mandetory things--suggestion tantamount to a command. If you don't go, you are questioned.
What about witnessing reports? Someone else mentioned this on a thread a few weeks back. The purpose of it: so HP could "believe" with the ones witnessing. Sounds to me like twi is shrinking, $$$$ are shrinking, and maybe napkinlady will see her wish: Fold TWI! Fold!
Regarding witnessing reports: Did they ask anyone if they WANTED to do that? I loathed witnessing reports too! I hated getting that call or email saying: "Did you forget your witnessing report?; You know, I need those no later than blah, blah, blah." Nobody ever asked me if I WANTED to do a stupid report.
I knew of one situation where someone brought in their witnessing report on paper. It was brought in time, but the fellowdang coordinator reproved them saying she wanted it emailed. The person told her they didn't like email (they aren't a technical person and had problems in the past with their email). The fellowdang coordinator came on strong to this person until he gave in and said OK. Poor fool. I was listening in the other room, and wanted to kicker her A$$!!! Nazi B*tch!! I wished I would have stood up against her for this poor fool. Sorry I didn't.
One year while out WOW our "leader" made us go witnessing. So, My partner and I HATED that forced witnessing stuff, So, we went to the movies! Killed two hours!
You are already witnessing to too many people in your work, children's school, neighbors, etc., so you don't want to squelch the quality time you spend with them to take on more.
Ask them where in the Word it says to go to the mall or door-to-door. Tell them you're going to go to the synagogue instead.
Honestly - do adult strangers walk up to others in the mall and start chatting? Just the thought gives me shivers...but then I don't like malls anyway. Do adults just hang out at the mall like teenagers? What's the average age in twi these days - back in the 70's it was probably about 19 or 20. lol. I just can't picture grown-ups doing this stuff.
Or you could say "Tell me three times that you don't hate mall witnessing with a straight face and I'll go with you.
But if that's too direct, try this: Refer to the verse that tells about all the members of the body have DIFFERENT functions and purposes. You could say that during a deep prayer in which you begged to be a better mall-witnesser, God revealed to you that your "place" in the body is not to do that but instead to (fill in the blank) - something like blessing the existing believers at fellowship.
Most of the time I got stuck doing it, it was sprung on us as a surprise. No advance warning. You just show up at twig and the leader would say, "Instead of a teaching tonight, we're all going witnessing."
Kind of hard to come up with an excuse in that situation. I think they knew if it was announced ahead of time, everybody would come up with "conflicts." I would try to do my "witnessing" in the nearest sports bar.
Maybe you could get a doctor to write a note saying you're too well to go.
Oh God, my one and only time I was roped into witnessing...LOL! I still remember it! The two dudes I was with, we went to McDonalds. Then we seperated. I went up to some poor guy at the mall, he ended up thinking I was a prostitute! AHHHHHH! How humiliating.
...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...
I know where you are at Wayward, it is just not that simple. ALthough the one so far that will work the best is about having scheduled time with someone you are already working with. Then of course when asked, they didn't show up.
Once again a person must lie to be able to mentally survive twi.
Hopefully someday you and all other trapped twi people can be bold and just say NO to all of twi's religious doctrines and man made rules and regulations. It is my heartfelt prayer.
Hebrews 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
WOW - I agree - I laughed out loud! Mainly because it IS the best reason for not going to witnessing night! (or outreach or whatever they call it now!).
Did RFR ever declare it wasn't so?
Hope R. color>size>face>
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>
Tell em' you'd rather have a colonoscopy than go witnessing!
Tell em' you've seen something about them on the web and have made time in your schedule to research it some more...
Tell em' some Jehova's Witnesses came to your door today and sounded saner than TWI.
Tell em' the ministry is DEAD anyhow and you're sick of wasting your time!
Tell me, are you still supposed to find people who are already deciple material (i.e. not high maintaince - has a job, decent car, lives in a good part of town, etc.)???
That one killed me - I mean, how were we supposed to witness the more abundant life to someone who was doing a hell of a lot better than we were! Even if they were in debt! Scheesch!
Are you doing confrontational witnessing anymore?
That's another one I hated - I wouldn't do it. I mean, what were you supposed to do? Walk up to someone who doesn't know you from Eve, ask them if they're in debt or think homo is okay and then confront them on their beliefs via some scripture you'd scribbled on a 3"x5" card - and this was supposed to turn them on to the light of the Word? NOT! I NEVER saw any success from that!
I had some great times witnessing as a WOW and at other times, but the "forced" witnessing (i.e. when we were told WHO to look for, how to talk to them, what to talk about, etc.) were the worst! I never had results with that because I feel God wasn't allowed to work in the situation. We were too busy following the rules of MEN and not the heart of GOD - never mind the person had a need as big as TX about knowing if they'd be with their dead child some day (i.e. needed to know about the return) - better talk about "no debt" because THAT'S WHAT LEADERSHIP HAS SAID WE'RE TO DO!
What works does TWI do?? They don't help the poor. They don't work in soup kitchens. They don't volunteer for human societies. They don't donate blook. They don't belong to any charities. They forbid their people to give to any charities (designer causes).
Heck, they don't even help their own!! I heard about one BC who left one of his people IN JAIL FOR DAYS! The whole reason this person was in jail was a horrible mis-understanding and they SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE. The poor person called the BC because they just knew they could count on their own leadership to help them out.
The BC asked if they didn't have any FAMILY they could call....well, NO, not after TWI teaches you to abandon your family if they won't take the class! No one else in the branch knew about out and the ones who did were told by the BC that he was taking care of it. Yeah, by letting the poor person rot in jail. Some way to take care of your flock, huh?
After the person got out, the RC saw this person at a meeting and not once said a word to them about the situation or asked how they were doing.
Horrible, horrible people. They don't do any good works. They don't do anything good for anyone but their own bellies.
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Raf
How about, "I'm leaving TWI."
That should work wonders.
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Steve!
Mandatory overtime?
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RottieGrrrl
OMG Wayward! LOL! I got roped into that once when back in 1979/80 when I first started going to fellowship. I was absolutely mortified.
A few years ago, some lady actually said to me. "Let's go witnessing together sometime." I said. "I don't do that." she said "God will tell you who to go up to." I said "God and me don't work like that together."
Honestly, I know he can put on your heart to share stuff with people at an appropriate time, but this stuff of just walking out and saying " OKAY GOD, I'm going to the mall.. SHOW ME WHO TO TALK TO" is something different alltogether. No way am I going to go along with that.
...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...
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Nottawayfer
Just say: "I don't want to". It works in their faux kinder gentler attitude, but you have to be prepared to answer questions for inquiring minds that want to know (GAWD I hated that!!). What are they going to do? Kick you out? That would be no big deal. Hopefully you don't have a husband who has an inquiring mind. You know how the people in your area are. It worked for me.
There once was a girl from Nantucket....
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WaywardWayfer
LOL, Rottie! Maybe I should try those lines....when you put it that way, isn't that kind of like "seeking after signs and wonders?" I mean, isn't a planned witnessing night like that telling God what to do?
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RottieGrrrl
That's an interesting point, WaywordW. And yeah, I agree with you wholeheartedly it's like telling God what to do.
People have freedom of will. God knows that. Just because you decide to accost someone on the street, doesn't mean they are going to be in the mind frame to accept what you are going to say. In fact, just the very way it's done, I believe is inappropriate.
People are more likely to ask questions and seek answers if they feel non-threatened and comfortable with you. It's really something that needs to be played by ear.
Of course, you are dealing with people who have a certain mindset about the way things should be done. (like the lady I referred to) Some of these people are just very thick skinned and are so used to being blown off or discounted as weirdo's that no rejection is going to shake them. They just see another chalk mark in heaven for trying, at least.
But this is one area that I will tend to stick to my guns now when this comes up.(no matter what religion it is) I will not do something that makes me feel uncomfortable, makes ME feel foolish, and that I have seen very little profit it in.
And hey! If other people enjoy doing this sort of thing, and are good at it..well...More power to them! It's just not for me.
I'm still working on the courage to stick to my guns on other things...
Of course, as I said..you're working against a mindset there...
PS. One thing I want to point out, is that God will work with you as an individual. He knows that if this aint your bag, He isn't going to force you to do something you don't want to do. He want's to work with you just the way you are!
"billy joel here please"
Of course...I can just hear it now... "Step be-yond your comfort zone people!"
-->
...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...
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Hope R.
Let's see... what did I use... I used the headache and sick kids, or one of them had a major math test and I had to stay home to help them study.
Hmmmm - Oh - you have plans to witness to a neighbor who you've already invited over...
... the dog is vomiting (that's good about 1/2 hour before you're supposed to show up).
Or just don't go! Tell them you forgot, or wrote the wrong date down on your calendar, or didn't write it down at all, or you got home from work late and figured everyone would already be partnered up and out already!
That's just a few - I'll put my old thinking-cap on and see what else I can come up with...
Deviously yours,
Hope R. color>size>face>
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>
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troubledwine
Well you are up against a lot. REv. R*pp just ended his last STS teaching with "And by our works we prove that we are Christ's."
This is where this things is headed. When they asked back in late december if every one attending was into doing a count they really weren't asking. Telling and asking how you feel about it is much different than dialogue.
The truth is I have witnessed to more people in the couple weeks since I started coming here than I have in the last 3 years. Once you start getting the funk out of your mind and get back to what does the Bible really say YOU WILL HAVE SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT.
I don't give a darn about "getting someone to a fellowship". The point of getting "someone to a fellowship" is for them to hear the word. That can be done in a variety of contexts as proven by J.C. You can argue one way or the other about the "best" place to learn - and most would agree the best place to learn is where there is a willing student and a willing teacher --- (Philip and the Eunuch on the chariot ring a bell?)
You can try to go the legislating spirituality route but demanding works to prove you are spiritual to me is the equivalent of requiring me to be circumsized. Now believing without works is dead but works with out love are dead before they get off the ground also.
So which is it with TWI??? If they stress performance of works OVER the grace god gives to all of us and our response to god's love then it is wrong IMO.
[This message was edited by troubledwine on January 29, 2003 at 13:04.]
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Mister P-Mosh
Wait a minute...didn't they always harp on how you are saved by grace rather than works, and that God is no respector of persons?
What's next, conditional salvation? If you don't go to a home fellowship twice a week you'll not get a crown of achievement at the bema?
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Mister P-Mosh
Don't make excuses, don't lie to them. Just tell them you can't go, or that you don't want to go, or that you have other things to do.
If they bother you about it, ask them why they want you to set aside a certain day to witness when you thought that you were supposed to be a witness by the example you live and to talk to people you meet in everyday life.
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Nottawayfer
Wayward,
Are you really required to go? I LOATHED mandetory things--suggestion tantamount to a command. If you don't go, you are questioned.
What about witnessing reports? Someone else mentioned this on a thread a few weeks back. The purpose of it: so HP could "believe" with the ones witnessing. Sounds to me like twi is shrinking, $$$$ are shrinking, and maybe napkinlady will see her wish: Fold TWI! Fold!
Regarding witnessing reports: Did they ask anyone if they WANTED to do that? I loathed witnessing reports too! I hated getting that call or email saying: "Did you forget your witnessing report?; You know, I need those no later than blah, blah, blah." Nobody ever asked me if I WANTED to do a stupid report.
I knew of one situation where someone brought in their witnessing report on paper. It was brought in time, but the fellowdang coordinator reproved them saying she wanted it emailed. The person told her they didn't like email (they aren't a technical person and had problems in the past with their email). The fellowdang coordinator came on strong to this person until he gave in and said OK. Poor fool. I was listening in the other room, and wanted to kicker her A$$!!! Nazi B*tch!! I wished I would have stood up against her for this poor fool. Sorry I didn't.
There once was a girl from Nantucket....
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troubledwine
The absurdity of all this is they just got done with last years theme of speaking (i.e. living) the truth in love. AKA Truthing It.
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Dot Matrix
One year while out WOW our "leader" made us go witnessing. So, My partner and I HATED that forced witnessing stuff, So, we went to the movies! Killed two hours!
Dot Matrix
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Nottawayfer
Wayward:
How 'bout this:
You are already witnessing to too many people in your work, children's school, neighbors, etc., so you don't want to squelch the quality time you spend with them to take on more.
Sounds good to me....
There once was a girl from Nantucket....
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Orange Cat
Ask them where in the Word it says to go to the mall or door-to-door. Tell them you're going to go to the synagogue instead.
Honestly - do adult strangers walk up to others in the mall and start chatting? Just the thought gives me shivers...but then I don't like malls anyway. Do adults just hang out at the mall like teenagers? What's the average age in twi these days - back in the 70's it was probably about 19 or 20. lol. I just can't picture grown-ups doing this stuff.
Or you could say "Tell me three times that you don't hate mall witnessing with a straight face and I'll go with you.
Orange Cat color>
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Angelfish
I like the answer "I don't want to."
But if that's too direct, try this: Refer to the verse that tells about all the members of the body have DIFFERENT functions and purposes. You could say that during a deep prayer in which you begged to be a better mall-witnesser, God revealed to you that your "place" in the body is not to do that but instead to (fill in the blank) - something like blessing the existing believers at fellowship.
Angelfish
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Pirate1974
I hated organized witnessing with a passion.
Most of the time I got stuck doing it, it was sprung on us as a surprise. No advance warning. You just show up at twig and the leader would say, "Instead of a teaching tonight, we're all going witnessing."
Kind of hard to come up with an excuse in that situation. I think they knew if it was announced ahead of time, everybody would come up with "conflicts." I would try to do my "witnessing" in the nearest sports bar.
Maybe you could get a doctor to write a note saying you're too well to go.
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RottieGrrrl
Oh God, my one and only time I was roped into witnessing...LOL! I still remember it! The two dudes I was with, we went to McDonalds. Then we seperated. I went up to some poor guy at the mall, he ended up thinking I was a prostitute! AHHHHHH! How humiliating.
...It's hard to be humble when you own a Rottweiler...
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lindyhopper
I say you need to have more fun with this.
How about...
I can't, I'm bleeding from my a$$.
or
I'm sorry, I had scheduled gargling Listerine all night.
or
but the original Family Feud reruns are on tonight!
or
Isn't the Word over the World?
or
I'm sorry I just started a water ballet class they only meet on fellowdang nights.
or
We don't need to go. I've already witnessed to everyone.
or
I can't, I'm flying in tonight to be naked on the Howard Stern Show tomarrow.
or
I orry au ut au ong ov whe a uz icki enu udda ov a iv.
(I'm sorry I cut my young off while licking peanut butter off a knife)
Just a few you can use, free of charge.
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napkinlady
"Isn't the Word over the World?"
That's the best Lindy, The best!
That's Gold, Lindy, Gold!
I know where you are at Wayward, it is just not that simple. ALthough the one so far that will work the best is about having scheduled time with someone you are already working with. Then of course when asked, they didn't show up.
Once again a person must lie to be able to mentally survive twi.
Hopefully someday you and all other trapped twi people can be bold and just say NO to all of twi's religious doctrines and man made rules and regulations. It is my heartfelt prayer.
Hebrews 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
Napkinlady
Fold TWI, Fold!
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Hope R.
WOW - I agree - I laughed out loud! Mainly because it IS the best reason for not going to witnessing night! (or outreach or whatever they call it now!).
Did RFR ever declare it wasn't so?
Hope R. color>size>face>
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - the sinners are much more fun... Billy Joel size>
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ChasUFarley
Tell em' you'd rather have a colonoscopy than go witnessing!
Tell em' you've seen something about them on the web and have made time in your schedule to research it some more...
Tell em' some Jehova's Witnesses came to your door today and sounded saner than TWI.
Tell em' the ministry is DEAD anyhow and you're sick of wasting your time!
Tell me, are you still supposed to find people who are already deciple material (i.e. not high maintaince - has a job, decent car, lives in a good part of town, etc.)???
That one killed me - I mean, how were we supposed to witness the more abundant life to someone who was doing a hell of a lot better than we were! Even if they were in debt! Scheesch!
Are you doing confrontational witnessing anymore?
That's another one I hated - I wouldn't do it. I mean, what were you supposed to do? Walk up to someone who doesn't know you from Eve, ask them if they're in debt or think homo is okay and then confront them on their beliefs via some scripture you'd scribbled on a 3"x5" card - and this was supposed to turn them on to the light of the Word? NOT! I NEVER saw any success from that!
I had some great times witnessing as a WOW and at other times, but the "forced" witnessing (i.e. when we were told WHO to look for, how to talk to them, what to talk about, etc.) were the worst! I never had results with that because I feel God wasn't allowed to work in the situation. We were too busy following the rules of MEN and not the heart of GOD - never mind the person had a need as big as TX about knowing if they'd be with their dead child some day (i.e. needed to know about the return) - better talk about "no debt" because THAT'S WHAT LEADERSHIP HAS SAID WE'RE TO DO!
Tell 'em Chas said to go to hell!
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simpleton
"By their works ye shall know them"
What works does TWI do?? They don't help the poor. They don't work in soup kitchens. They don't volunteer for human societies. They don't donate blook. They don't belong to any charities. They forbid their people to give to any charities (designer causes).
Heck, they don't even help their own!! I heard about one BC who left one of his people IN JAIL FOR DAYS! The whole reason this person was in jail was a horrible mis-understanding and they SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE. The poor person called the BC because they just knew they could count on their own leadership to help them out.
The BC asked if they didn't have any FAMILY they could call....well, NO, not after TWI teaches you to abandon your family if they won't take the class! No one else in the branch knew about out and the ones who did were told by the BC that he was taking care of it. Yeah, by letting the poor person rot in jail. Some way to take care of your flock, huh?
After the person got out, the RC saw this person at a meeting and not once said a word to them about the situation or asked how they were doing.
Horrible, horrible people. They don't do any good works. They don't do anything good for anyone but their own bellies.
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DATWAY
Tell them you would love to go witnessing cause" you can tell if someone is going to believe JUST BY LOOKIN AT UM."
And you know which HORSE is going to come in 1st place at Riverside Track.
That ought to just about take care of your witnessing problem..............
God I love the free air out of TWI.
[This message was edited by DATWAY on January 30, 2003 at 7:19.]
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