They didn't show it at all when I was involved but really at that time in the late 70's early 80's no one but the board and elders really knew the financials of any church. IT has become a common practice to share it now with parishioners.
As to TWI's current practice I do not know. and did they ever share it for those of you who were in longer or at a higher level I was after all just a leafytwiglet.
I dont know what they do now, I know in my time (late 70's and most of the 80's) about once ayear someone would say on some tape or during some teaching that 'any advanced class grad could examine the books' or something like that...I dont know anyone who ever took them up on it, it sounded to me like that claim was mostly for show.
I do remember someone asking a question about finances to the Board of Trustees at a Rock of Ages question and answer period in front of a few thousand people who got yelled down very sternly by the Board for even daring to ask. That was sometime in the late 80's
There were no written financial reports similar to the ones that you'll find in most church lobbies that I ever saw.
In my experience it was all very secretive, our job was to send it in and not question them, If anyone questioned we werent "trusting God"
I love this about the church I now attend. Every January, the treasurer goes through the whole church accounts, the sort of thing you would find on a company balance sheet, showing everything in and everything out, the funds pledged, the tax back on money pledged, contributions to/from the diocese, the budgeting for forthcoming projects, gross salaries ... And it is presented so kindly and lovingly.
Yes, I recall TWI saying that anyone who ... can't remember the qualifier, might have been "Adv Class grad" or might have been "faithfully tithed" or might have been something else - anyway, they could inspect the books. Can't remember when or where I heard this; SNS?
I did think about asking when I went in rez. I never did ask. They were nice enough in the Finance Office but always seemed so busy; but somehow the atmosphere wasn't conducive to enquiring. And frankly there is enough to do in residence without chasing the bank accounts and balance sheet of this secretive organization.
We were never presented with balance sheets TWI-wide. It would have been easy enough to publish an abridged sort of version in The Way Mag, which after all is not the kind of thing the general public actually does buy.
And so what, if ordinary public did have sight of the documents? They are technically documents of public record anyway.
Like everything else, it's hard finding out real specifics about anything connected with TWI.
At one Word in Business, I was seated at dinner with, among others, Mich@el F0rt. The woman attending with me asked him about the books, and he gave the "AC Grad" answer. (I don't remember if he mentioned anything about faithful abundant sharing, though I wouldn't be surprised if he did.) I wasn't particularly interested in checking the books at that time; it seems I missed a great opportunity!
At one Word in Business, I was seated at dinner with, among others, Mich@el F0rt. The woman attending with me asked him about the books, and he gave the "AC Grad" answer. (I don't remember if he mentioned anything about faithful abundant sharing, though I wouldn't be surprised if he did.) I wasn't particularly interested in checking the books at that time; it seems I missed a great opportunity!
George
I seriously suspect that if any of us HAD inquired to see the books, we would have been questioned thoroughly and repeatedly about why we wanted to see them and it would have been "ascertained" that we didn't have a spiritual need to see them, but were just listening to devil spirits, and we would have been placed under closer spiritual oversight by our local leadership rather than be shown anything about twi's financial matters.
So, my question is, did or does TWI ever allow its members, whether they be Corps or not, to see the financial records for the organization, so that members can get an idea of where their money is going?
They allowed it up until the early 70's but sometime in the middle-70's quit allowing it. I have a letter from Bo Reahard somewhere in my Way Memorabalia file that explains it.
Aren't non-profit organizations required to have their books examined every so often by some kind of authority?
Im pretty sure that they are...
There was some big woopdedoo in the 70's or 80's how TWI was going to lose its nonprofit status for misuse of funds. VP of course blamed it on "the adversary". Maybe someone else knows the details on that, I know I never heard the real story just a few well washed snippets through the grapevine. One of which was that they kept a bunch of lawyers busy for quite awhile ( is that within the realm of "biblical teaching research and fellowship"??) <_<
Non profits may have to open up their books to the state by law but transparency to donors is another aspect altogether though.
Aren't non-profit organizations required to have their books examined every so often by some kind of authority?
When I was on Staff (1996 to 2001), they had a large auditing firm come to audit their books. I can't remember the name, but I thought it had Brown in it. The name of the outfit was two names.
Anywhoo, they idolized LCM too. L*ui* L*nd shared one day how they got a copy of LCM's book and wanted him to sign it. Why in the world would anyone not involved in TWI want his autograph??? It sounds fishy to me. The group of people which came sat in the dining room for lunch and were announced as guests.
Well someone might idolize LCM, as you put it, but the individual auditors concerned would still have professional standards that they would have to adhere to.
And a large firm of auditors, even if only well-known in Ohio, would still want to protect its reputation.
They allowed it up until the early 70's but sometime in the middle-70's quit allowing it. I have a letter from Bo Reahard somewhere in my Way Memorabalia file that explains it.
I would love to see a copy of that letter, and try to understand what justification they gave for closing their books. Any chance you could post a copy of it?
Seeing "the books" wouldn't really explain much. It's pretty easy to organize a chart of accounts so that the financial statements are perfectly legal but don't really explain what's going on. Even public companies do it.
Precisely spoken. Anyone ever read their quarterly/annual 10Q/10K reports???? Ever notice that when you subtract liabilities from assets the balance always is zero?
Seeing "the books" wouldn't really explain much. It's pretty easy to organize a chart of accounts so that the financial statements are perfectly legal but don't really explain what's going on. Even public companies do it.
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leafytwiglet
They didn't show it at all when I was involved but really at that time in the late 70's early 80's no one but the board and elders really knew the financials of any church. IT has become a common practice to share it now with parishioners.
As to TWI's current practice I do not know. and did they ever share it for those of you who were in longer or at a higher level I was after all just a leafytwiglet.
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mstar1
I dont know what they do now, I know in my time (late 70's and most of the 80's) about once ayear someone would say on some tape or during some teaching that 'any advanced class grad could examine the books' or something like that...I dont know anyone who ever took them up on it, it sounded to me like that claim was mostly for show.
I do remember someone asking a question about finances to the Board of Trustees at a Rock of Ages question and answer period in front of a few thousand people who got yelled down very sternly by the Board for even daring to ask. That was sometime in the late 80's
There were no written financial reports similar to the ones that you'll find in most church lobbies that I ever saw.
In my experience it was all very secretive, our job was to send it in and not question them, If anyone questioned we werent "trusting God"
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Twinky
I love this about the church I now attend. Every January, the treasurer goes through the whole church accounts, the sort of thing you would find on a company balance sheet, showing everything in and everything out, the funds pledged, the tax back on money pledged, contributions to/from the diocese, the budgeting for forthcoming projects, gross salaries ... And it is presented so kindly and lovingly.
Yes, I recall TWI saying that anyone who ... can't remember the qualifier, might have been "Adv Class grad" or might have been "faithfully tithed" or might have been something else - anyway, they could inspect the books. Can't remember when or where I heard this; SNS?
I did think about asking when I went in rez. I never did ask. They were nice enough in the Finance Office but always seemed so busy; but somehow the atmosphere wasn't conducive to enquiring. And frankly there is enough to do in residence without chasing the bank accounts and balance sheet of this secretive organization.
We were never presented with balance sheets TWI-wide. It would have been easy enough to publish an abridged sort of version in The Way Mag, which after all is not the kind of thing the general public actually does buy.
And so what, if ordinary public did have sight of the documents? They are technically documents of public record anyway.
Like everything else, it's hard finding out real specifics about anything connected with TWI.
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GeorgeStGeorge
At one Word in Business, I was seated at dinner with, among others, Mich@el F0rt. The woman attending with me asked him about the books, and he gave the "AC Grad" answer. (I don't remember if he mentioned anything about faithful abundant sharing, though I wouldn't be surprised if he did.) I wasn't particularly interested in checking the books at that time; it seems I missed a great opportunity!
George
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Nottawayfer
I left TWI in December 2002, and I never knew financial information to be available to anyone in the ministry during my almost 20 years.
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TheHighWay
I seriously suspect that if any of us HAD inquired to see the books, we would have been questioned thoroughly and repeatedly about why we wanted to see them and it would have been "ascertained" that we didn't have a spiritual need to see them, but were just listening to devil spirits, and we would have been placed under closer spiritual oversight by our local leadership rather than be shown anything about twi's financial matters.
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Mark Clarke
Aren't non-profit organizations required to have their books examined every so often by some kind of authority?
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oldiesman
They allowed it up until the early 70's but sometime in the middle-70's quit allowing it. I have a letter from Bo Reahard somewhere in my Way Memorabalia file that explains it.
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mstar1
Im pretty sure that they are...
There was some big woopdedoo in the 70's or 80's how TWI was going to lose its nonprofit status for misuse of funds. VP of course blamed it on "the adversary". Maybe someone else knows the details on that, I know I never heard the real story just a few well washed snippets through the grapevine. One of which was that they kept a bunch of lawyers busy for quite awhile ( is that within the realm of "biblical teaching research and fellowship"??) <_<
Non profits may have to open up their books to the state by law but transparency to donors is another aspect altogether though.
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Nottawayfer
When I was on Staff (1996 to 2001), they had a large auditing firm come to audit their books. I can't remember the name, but I thought it had Brown in it. The name of the outfit was two names.
Anywhoo, they idolized LCM too. L*ui* L*nd shared one day how they got a copy of LCM's book and wanted him to sign it. Why in the world would anyone not involved in TWI want his autograph??? It sounds fishy to me. The group of people which came sat in the dining room for lunch and were announced as guests.
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Twinky
Well someone might idolize LCM, as you put it, but the individual auditors concerned would still have professional standards that they would have to adhere to.
And a large firm of auditors, even if only well-known in Ohio, would still want to protect its reputation.
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TheHighWay
I would love to see a copy of that letter, and try to understand what justification they gave for closing their books. Any chance you could post a copy of it?
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Nottawayfer
Forget the name Brown, it was Ernst and Young they hired to audit the finances.
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Jim
Yeah, seems like Ernst and Young was in some big scandal. Thought it was Enron, but that was Arthur Anderson.
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My3Cents
Seeing "the books" wouldn't really explain much. It's pretty easy to organize a chart of accounts so that the financial statements are perfectly legal but don't really explain what's going on. Even public companies do it.
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RumRunner
Precisely spoken. Anyone ever read their quarterly/annual 10Q/10K reports???? Ever notice that when you subtract liabilities from assets the balance always is zero?
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