I read your post and I have to say you came up with a lot of feel good reasons to justify continuing to give your support to the way. But you did not say it is the right thing to do.
Just by showing up you are saying it is O.K. to exploit people for the acquisition of your group's ambitions. You need to wake up and take responsibility for what you are doing. The only things the self-appointed leaders of the way ministry care less about than you are truth and integrity. You continue to empower the way with full knowledge of what it is. Just like the fools who keep the machines running down at the pedofile factory of the catholic church. I enabled the way for a long time and now I am ashamed you should be to.
From other posts you have put on this site and your response to me, I can see that you are an EXTREMELY bitter, hard-hearted person. Why do you even post here? I believe it is just to slam on people.
From other posts you have put on this site and your response to me, I can see that you are an EXTREMELY bitter, hard-hearted person. Why do you even post here? I believe it is just to slam on people.
wayferlookin
It's to bad that you think I am slamming people. I am extremely angry not bitter. My anger is not at the way it is at vile beliefs that produce nothing but bondage for people no matter where or from whom they come. Any person who promotes error, either through passive or active support, I consider not an enemy of mine but of life. Any enemy of life is a friend of death. Are you a friend of death? Will you encourage the heart of an individual to escape for freedom and experience Gods greatest gift of all that of life? Or, will you for fear and comfort authorize the workings of death. It is not possible to serve two masters. This statement is either true or it is false what say you.
I left the Way on January 11, 1996 after 23.5 years .. including College WOW, regular WOW, Way Corps, etc. The feelings you have upon leaving TWI are akin to those following divorce or even a death ... stages of shock, anger, etc. It helped me tremendously to have a loving group of former Way folks (not affiliated with any of the major spin-offs, heck, we don't even have a name!) ... and we re-searched the scripture and have seen great things that were never taught in TWI ... we are still quite thankful for the Word of God made known to us by the life of Dr. Wierwille, and although we realize he is far from perfect, we still believe and stand on the basic principles of Power for Abundant Living.
We are very laid back, but committed spiritually to our local church, and the concept of the local church, as opposed to another mega-church, non-profit organization with a board of directors. There is great freedom and great joy in my life now ... and in ours as a family.
If you have any questions I can help you with, please feel free to write me at spropst@hci.net ... as has been said on TV commercials before, "No salesman will call."
Life is great on the outside of TWI ... the same God that called you to COME to TWI to hear the Word of God is calling you to get OUT now ... it took me a while to realize that is what happens with each of us ... God wants us to be the best place we can be to love Him and hear his Word ...
Pay no attention to that twit behind the curtain...
If and when you leave, you'll do it in your own good time. Don't let anyone here tell you what you should or shouldn't do regarding leaving (including me if I forget my own advice )
Oakspear
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
I got out Christmas 2001 at 20yrs old after growing up in the Way. I'm glad that you have the freedoms in the Way that I never experienced while "in".
If you are happy "in" stay in until you are unhappy.
I'm glad that you seem to have a head on your shoulders and know how to use it.
I didn't find greasespot until I was out. However, it would have been helpful while I was in.
I thought I was the only one who noticed things because nobody else would talk about them. Now most people who I've known for years are out with their own stories.
I do miss the fellowship with people I could relate so well with in the Way. However, this place helps fill that void.
Wafer...just wanted to take time to say...welcome back!
I am glad that you are out and can begin growing in new and unimaginable directions...it`s goin to be a great ride!
Secondly...I am so glad that you came back...I always felt badly that I was probably one of the posters that made you uncomfortable here, on your last thread...glad that you are here, offering your unique perspective.
Thanks!! When I signed up the second time to be a poster on GS, I put the past behind and started fresh. I am a different person, so I will see people in a new light. I don't think anything you said in particular was too hard, I think you were just trying REALLY HARD for me to see what was really going on.
Love,
Wayfer NOT!
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
OK, you don't soudn arrogant. I knew I was going to leave too; I just didn't know when I would get enough nerve to jump off that 25 foot diving board. Really, that's what it was like for me. But once you do it, things are better. You just have other things to deal with.
By the way, when you and chinson get married will she take on your last name and become chinson! :D-->
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
Wayfer not -- what I don't understand is you said you went to Dallas and that you had such a good time with the people there that all your issues didn't matter because after all the people are what matter. So you went back to Ohio, and within three weeks or so you left the ministry altogether. In fact, you seemed to be upset that people asked you what you learned at the special.
I guess what I wonder is what did you learn at the special and secondly what made you change your mind once you got back?
quote:what I don't understand is you said you went to Dallas and that you had such a good time with the people there that all your issues didn't matter because after all the people are what matter. So you went back to Ohio, and within three weeks or so you left the ministry altogether. In fact, you seemed to be upset that people asked you what you learned at the special.
You totally read your own interpretation of things between the lines. I never said the other stuff didn't matter because of the people. Where did you get that? I don't know where you get that I was upset that people asked me what I learned.
You need to ask more questions before firing darts at people.
PS: I never went to Ohio. Get your facts straight.
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
I did have a good time with the people. The people in twi aren't necessarily evil. I was happy to hear that people were thinking on their own and not waiting for bod excathedra to be announced before they made decisions to buy houses, etc.
You may be skeptical of my leaving, but I couldn't stand to be hypocrital and go to fellowdang at the same time. I also couldn't support evils that had been committed to people that were not resolved and probably never will be.
Hope this gets you off my cloud. Somehow I just don't like your tone of writing.
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
What a joy to see you posting! I'm so blessed you're back and especially that life is getting better for you. When my husband and I finally told our FC's last September, we felt so relieved. To be able to "start over" with a clean slate/conscience, is such a RELIEF! Our first step was to give up our Corps "status", and to discover that we could minister to others even better than before!
Things keep on getting better, you'll see, much love, EH
Wayfer Not--- your tag line said ex-staffer doesn't work over 37 hours a week now. I guessed wrong that you were in Ohio. Sorry about my tone -- I didn't take the time to tell you where I am coming from and I'm coming across wrong. allow me to start over please.
I still go and my interest in your story is that you went to the special and you had a lot of questions (questions which I still have) and then you went back. From your last two posts you seemed to indicate you were going to try to make a difference so to speak. But yet, in just a few weeks you decided against that.
Because I am an innie, (like many others here) I wondered what made you change your mind? Did you try and it didn't work? Did you just see that no one was open to change? Your experience is valued and you have made a decision many of us are facing even as we speak. I was just wondering what you experienced so that I (and other innies) can get some sense of what to expect when we make our move.
Here are those posts just for reference:
Thanks; that was very sweet of you to say. I think you are a very caring individual. As a matter of fact, I would trust my heart more to you than I would some top leadership.
I just wished (oh, oh, not THAT word) that more people would have stayed and stood up against the bull. I do realize that lcm made that impossible with his unrelenting demand for loyalty, but today I really believe that those who really care can make a difference in the future of TWI. I know that many of you question the plagerisms, sexual improprieties, and the doctrines taught, but there is one common bond that got us all to TWI--LOVE for God and His Word. It can happen again like the way it was when we first got involved. Any church or splinter group will have some of the same problems, but it is the love of God in the people that makes it all worthwhile. I know some of you have found very wonderful churches to attend, and if it makes you happy, then I am happy for you. I just remember that common bond we all had together, and it was great.
I gotta get back to work again, so I will tell you more about what was taught at the ACS later.
Ex-Staffer Doesn't Work Over 37 Hours Now
posted December 02, 2002 14:05 December 02, 2002 14:05
Well, guys, I regret posting my enthusiasm. Sounds like you all just want to bath in your past hurts. I am truly sorry for the bs you all had to put up with. There were a lot of wrongs. I though I could make a difference. I think that you want to continue to have someone to blame, and that is the current BOD because lcm doesn't show his ugly face to be blamed. I think your accusations against the BOD are unsubstantiated.
I am done with this website. I will not read it anymore either.
quote:I still go and my interest in your story is that you went to the special and you had a lot of questions (questions which I still have) and then you went back. From your last two posts you seemed to indicate you were going to try to make a difference so to speak. But yet, in just a few weeks you decided against that.
Because I am an innie, (like many others here) I wondered what made you change your mind? Did you try and it didn't work? Did you just see that no one was open to change? Your experience is valued and you have made a decision many of us are facing even as we speak. I was just wondering what you experienced so that I (and other innies) can get some sense of what to expect when we make our move.
Trouble:
I would like to know more about you before spilling my guts. Why don't you tell me about yourself on a private topic to me.
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
Ahhh, I tried that with Radar O'reilly and she didn't even bother to respond to my second email in which I laid my guts on the floor (she asked for the same thing) - so that is the last time I fall for that. I've given up on gaining approval for information. Give it or don't give it. Being on a need to know basis is how most of us are swimming in crap up to our necks right now. I know you can relate.
If you want to know about me just click on my name and go under recent posts. You can read all about my views.
But just to snip in the bud the "WayGB overtone" this is a forum on My Story on a thread started by you - so I didn't think I was to out of line to ask why did you have a change of heart. I am wrestling with these very same things and just wanted to know.
I thought and still do that that took courage. It must have taken just as much if not more to leave.
The main reason I left is because I see all of these people on GS who were treated like dogs and who still have not been apologized to for the wrongs that were done to them. How could I support something like that with a whole heart or my money?
When twi recognizes that it needed to become a kinder, gentler ministry, why were any apologies made to people who were hurt? IMHO: They are fearful of being sued again, and again, and again. There are unresolved issues, and I know the bod aren't stupid to it. We know martinpuke won't come out to apoligize.
When people were M&A'd, horrible things were shared about them at the lunchtime forum at HQ. These people are not the bad people they were made out to be. Why would you or I support that? I have seen a lot of a$$ covering and phoney smiles.
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
Also, we've been taught that practical error leads to doctrinal error. If that is true, why would we even trust the doctrine we've been taught by VPW or LCM? They were both chronic adulterers? I was absolutely disgusted to find out the things VPW did.
I want no part of a ministry with a foundation of adultery.
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
wow, that pretty much sums it up doesn't it. Thanks for sharing that -- I realize you didn't have to.
On one of my posts I talked about it not making sense to me that if you are going to teach something different you have to go back and correct the doctrinal and practical error so that people's brains get cleaned out but they do not seem to want to carry out that part of the Word. What do you call it when an organization keeps you from doing the word??? An IDOL... If you or I were a part of a organization that kept us from doing the word what would they tell us??? to leave it right?
It's interesting how there seems to be a double standard for what they do verses what we're supposed to do. It's like that poster's message -- in theory there is no difference between doctrine and practice but in practice there is....
I would not be going out on a limb to say that twi does not practice what it preaches.
Troubled:
When I when the the acs, I was an emotional wreck. I knew the right thing to do was leave, but I had too much invested in my time in the ministry and my relationship. It was extremely hard for me to do because I could have lost my honey! Thank God he told me he loved me and wasn't going to dump me. That was one of the first things he told his fc too--he wasn't going to dump me just because I left the ministry. God I love that guy!!
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
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early2it
I read your post and I have to say you came up with a lot of feel good reasons to justify continuing to give your support to the way. But you did not say it is the right thing to do.
Just by showing up you are saying it is O.K. to exploit people for the acquisition of your group's ambitions. You need to wake up and take responsibility for what you are doing. The only things the self-appointed leaders of the way ministry care less about than you are truth and integrity. You continue to empower the way with full knowledge of what it is. Just like the fools who keep the machines running down at the pedofile factory of the catholic church. I enabled the way for a long time and now I am ashamed you should be to.
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wayferlookin
From other posts you have put on this site and your response to me, I can see that you are an EXTREMELY bitter, hard-hearted person. Why do you even post here? I believe it is just to slam on people.
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early2it
wayferlookin
It's to bad that you think I am slamming people. I am extremely angry not bitter. My anger is not at the way it is at vile beliefs that produce nothing but bondage for people no matter where or from whom they come. Any person who promotes error, either through passive or active support, I consider not an enemy of mine but of life. Any enemy of life is a friend of death. Are you a friend of death? Will you encourage the heart of an individual to escape for freedom and experience Gods greatest gift of all that of life? Or, will you for fear and comfort authorize the workings of death. It is not possible to serve two masters. This statement is either true or it is false what say you.
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ToadFriend
I left the Way on January 11, 1996 after 23.5 years .. including College WOW, regular WOW, Way Corps, etc. The feelings you have upon leaving TWI are akin to those following divorce or even a death ... stages of shock, anger, etc. It helped me tremendously to have a loving group of former Way folks (not affiliated with any of the major spin-offs, heck, we don't even have a name!) ... and we re-searched the scripture and have seen great things that were never taught in TWI ... we are still quite thankful for the Word of God made known to us by the life of Dr. Wierwille, and although we realize he is far from perfect, we still believe and stand on the basic principles of Power for Abundant Living.
We are very laid back, but committed spiritually to our local church, and the concept of the local church, as opposed to another mega-church, non-profit organization with a board of directors. There is great freedom and great joy in my life now ... and in ours as a family.
If you have any questions I can help you with, please feel free to write me at spropst@hci.net ... as has been said on TV commercials before, "No salesman will call."
Life is great on the outside of TWI ... the same God that called you to COME to TWI to hear the Word of God is calling you to get OUT now ... it took me a while to realize that is what happens with each of us ... God wants us to be the best place we can be to love Him and hear his Word ...
Susan Propst
aka ToadFriend
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Oakspear
Pay no attention to that twit behind the curtain...
If and when you leave, you'll do it in your own good time. Don't let anyone here tell you what you should or shouldn't do regarding leaving (including me if I forget my own advice )
Oakspear
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
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red
I got out Christmas 2001 at 20yrs old after growing up in the Way. I'm glad that you have the freedoms in the Way that I never experienced while "in".
If you are happy "in" stay in until you are unhappy.
I'm glad that you seem to have a head on your shoulders and know how to use it.
I didn't find greasespot until I was out. However, it would have been helpful while I was in.
I thought I was the only one who noticed things because nobody else would talk about them. Now most people who I've known for years are out with their own stories.
I do miss the fellowship with people I could relate so well with in the Way. However, this place helps fill that void.
I hope to see you around in or out.
"free at last"
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Nottawayfer
Red,
I am out now, and I post as Wayfer Not! I'm glad you found freedom!
Welcome! The capuccinos are especially good
:)-->
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
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rascal
Wafer...just wanted to take time to say...welcome back!
I am glad that you are out and can begin growing in new and unimaginable directions...it`s goin to be a great ride!
Secondly...I am so glad that you came back...I always felt badly that I was probably one of the posters that made you uncomfortable here, on your last thread...glad that you are here, offering your unique perspective.
Cathy
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Nottawayfer
Rascal,
Thanks!! When I signed up the second time to be a poster on GS, I put the past behind and started fresh. I am a different person, so I will see people in a new light. I don't think anything you said in particular was too hard, I think you were just trying REALLY HARD for me to see what was really going on.
Love,
Wayfer NOT!
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
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Steve!
Wayfernotlookinanymore -
Forgive me if I sound a bit arrogant but - I *knew* you'd be back and out!
You sounded way too sensible, and way too aware of everything going on, to stay "in".
I'm glad you're back.
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Nottawayfer
Steve!
OK, you don't soudn arrogant. I knew I was going to leave too; I just didn't know when I would get enough nerve to jump off that 25 foot diving board. Really, that's what it was like for me. But once you do it, things are better. You just have other things to deal with.
By the way, when you and chinson get married will she take on your last name and become chinson!
:D-->
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
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DATWAY
Wafer not!Cool to see you back (indebtsayswho) its great to see people who can think and sorry bout the boyfriend still in.
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troubledwine
Wayfer not -- what I don't understand is you said you went to Dallas and that you had such a good time with the people there that all your issues didn't matter because after all the people are what matter. So you went back to Ohio, and within three weeks or so you left the ministry altogether. In fact, you seemed to be upset that people asked you what you learned at the special.
I guess what I wonder is what did you learn at the special and secondly what made you change your mind once you got back?
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Nottawayfer
Troubled:
You totally read your own interpretation of things between the lines. I never said the other stuff didn't matter because of the people. Where did you get that? I don't know where you get that I was upset that people asked me what I learned.
You need to ask more questions before firing darts at people.
PS: I never went to Ohio. Get your facts straight.
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
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Nottawayfer
Troubled:
I did have a good time with the people. The people in twi aren't necessarily evil. I was happy to hear that people were thinking on their own and not waiting for bod excathedra to be announced before they made decisions to buy houses, etc.
You may be skeptical of my leaving, but I couldn't stand to be hypocrital and go to fellowdang at the same time. I also couldn't support evils that had been committed to people that were not resolved and probably never will be.
Hope this gets you off my cloud. Somehow I just don't like your tone of writing.
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
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Eaglehouse
Wafernot,
What a joy to see you posting! I'm so blessed you're back and especially that life is getting better for you. When my husband and I finally told our FC's last September, we felt so relieved. To be able to "start over" with a clean slate/conscience, is such a RELIEF! Our first step was to give up our Corps "status", and to discover that we could minister to others even better than before!
Things keep on getting better, you'll see, much love, EH
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Nottawayfer
Thanks Eaglehouse!
I sent you a private topic to see.
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
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troubledwine
Wayfer Not--- your tag line said ex-staffer doesn't work over 37 hours a week now. I guessed wrong that you were in Ohio. Sorry about my tone -- I didn't take the time to tell you where I am coming from and I'm coming across wrong. allow me to start over please.
I still go and my interest in your story is that you went to the special and you had a lot of questions (questions which I still have) and then you went back. From your last two posts you seemed to indicate you were going to try to make a difference so to speak. But yet, in just a few weeks you decided against that.
Because I am an innie, (like many others here) I wondered what made you change your mind? Did you try and it didn't work? Did you just see that no one was open to change? Your experience is valued and you have made a decision many of us are facing even as we speak. I was just wondering what you experienced so that I (and other innies) can get some sense of what to expect when we make our move.
Here are those posts just for reference:
Thanks; that was very sweet of you to say. I think you are a very caring individual. As a matter of fact, I would trust my heart more to you than I would some top leadership.
I just wished (oh, oh, not THAT word) that more people would have stayed and stood up against the bull. I do realize that lcm made that impossible with his unrelenting demand for loyalty, but today I really believe that those who really care can make a difference in the future of TWI. I know that many of you question the plagerisms, sexual improprieties, and the doctrines taught, but there is one common bond that got us all to TWI--LOVE for God and His Word. It can happen again like the way it was when we first got involved. Any church or splinter group will have some of the same problems, but it is the love of God in the people that makes it all worthwhile. I know some of you have found very wonderful churches to attend, and if it makes you happy, then I am happy for you. I just remember that common bond we all had together, and it was great.
I gotta get back to work again, so I will tell you more about what was taught at the ACS later.
Ex-Staffer Doesn't Work Over 37 Hours Now
posted December 02, 2002 14:05 December 02, 2002 14:05
My Very Last Post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, guys, I regret posting my enthusiasm. Sounds like you all just want to bath in your past hurts. I am truly sorry for the bs you all had to put up with. There were a lot of wrongs. I though I could make a difference. I think that you want to continue to have someone to blame, and that is the current BOD because lcm doesn't show his ugly face to be blamed. I think your accusations against the BOD are unsubstantiated.
I am done with this website. I will not read it anymore either.
Ex-Staffer Doesn't Work Over 37 Hours Now
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Nottawayfer
Trouble:
I would like to know more about you before spilling my guts. Why don't you tell me about yourself on a private topic to me.
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
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troubledwine
Ahhh, I tried that with Radar O'reilly and she didn't even bother to respond to my second email in which I laid my guts on the floor (she asked for the same thing) - so that is the last time I fall for that. I've given up on gaining approval for information. Give it or don't give it. Being on a need to know basis is how most of us are swimming in crap up to our necks right now. I know you can relate.
If you want to know about me just click on my name and go under recent posts. You can read all about my views.
But just to snip in the bud the "WayGB overtone" this is a forum on My Story on a thread started by you - so I didn't think I was to out of line to ask why did you have a change of heart. I am wrestling with these very same things and just wanted to know.
I thought and still do that that took courage. It must have taken just as much if not more to leave.
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Nottawayfer
Trouble:
The main reason I left is because I see all of these people on GS who were treated like dogs and who still have not been apologized to for the wrongs that were done to them. How could I support something like that with a whole heart or my money?
When twi recognizes that it needed to become a kinder, gentler ministry, why were any apologies made to people who were hurt? IMHO: They are fearful of being sued again, and again, and again. There are unresolved issues, and I know the bod aren't stupid to it. We know martinpuke won't come out to apoligize.
When people were M&A'd, horrible things were shared about them at the lunchtime forum at HQ. These people are not the bad people they were made out to be. Why would you or I support that? I have seen a lot of a$$ covering and phoney smiles.
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
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Nottawayfer
Trouble:
Also, we've been taught that practical error leads to doctrinal error. If that is true, why would we even trust the doctrine we've been taught by VPW or LCM? They were both chronic adulterers? I was absolutely disgusted to find out the things VPW did.
I want no part of a ministry with a foundation of adultery.
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
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troubledwine
wow, that pretty much sums it up doesn't it. Thanks for sharing that -- I realize you didn't have to.
On one of my posts I talked about it not making sense to me that if you are going to teach something different you have to go back and correct the doctrinal and practical error so that people's brains get cleaned out but they do not seem to want to carry out that part of the Word. What do you call it when an organization keeps you from doing the word??? An IDOL... If you or I were a part of a organization that kept us from doing the word what would they tell us??? to leave it right?
It's interesting how there seems to be a double standard for what they do verses what we're supposed to do. It's like that poster's message -- in theory there is no difference between doctrine and practice but in practice there is....
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Nottawayfer
I would not be going out on a limb to say that twi does not practice what it preaches.
Troubled:
When I when the the acs, I was an emotional wreck. I knew the right thing to do was leave, but I had too much invested in my time in the ministry and my relationship. It was extremely hard for me to do because I could have lost my honey! Thank God he told me he loved me and wasn't going to dump me. That was one of the first things he told his fc too--he wasn't going to dump me just because I left the ministry. God I love that guy!!
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
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