I wanted the special would be a deciding point for me. If what I saw there was promising, then I would stay. I was trying like hell to make it worth staying to keep my life simpler. I wouldn't have to tell my leaderdang I was leaving, wouldn't have to tell my boyfriend I was leaving, but that meant putting on my best twig face. The thought of living a lie was killing me. I guess you could say the great fellowship was my promise. It certainly wasn't the rehashed teaching, that BORING twi history lession from RFR, or the major lack of sleep I endured that made me want to stay. I realized I had to be true to my heart of hearts.
When I started posting on GS, I wanted substantiated, solid evidence of the phoniness of the current bod. I heard some information which helped me to put 2 and 2 together from things I knew about while at HQ. This helped me to see their creepy ways. That helped me to make a decision that I wouldn't support the evil twi.
So now, I answered you. I went to your other posts to learn more about you. You seem pretty knowledgeable about stuff that went on. Tell me why you stay? Obviously you know twi isn't Rosie.
By the way, you mentioned something I wrote on another post about rfr makign people apologize for wrongs they did. The person I was mentioning was a dept coord who was also mentioned on another post about lesbians of the way. I heard this information second hand. Even if it were true, it doesn't make Rozi rosey.
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
Hmmm, why I am still in now? That is a good question. I do not want to make a decision based on anger (although spiritual anger is not wrong) or on being hasty (although we should run to keep his commandments).
I have seen many people (like you have seen) that just get mad or reproved and that is why they leave. That route isn't for me. The route that I aspire to take is the route that proves all things and holds fast the good. I too am questioning how much good can come by staying.
The very sad reality I am faced with, is - is this ministry willing to go against what Dr Weirwille taught if he was wrong? If the answer to that question is no - then all that is left is propping up a denomination (if in fact he was wrong on certain issues.) It seems unimaginable that a ministry FOUNDED on a man who stopped going to his church to seek the truth could fall into that situation. But if so - so be it, it wouldn't be the first time or the last.
Take this ministry year for an example. This year is all about the walk of believing but we are going through the collaterals. What heals peoples hearts of hurt and wrongs is teaching the word not reminiscing about the good old days. How can you teach the walk of believing without teaching what walk means? How can you teach the walk of believing without teaching what energizes it? And how can you teach what energizes it without teaching without getting into god loved us first and HIS goodness leads us to repentance? -- not VPW's and not our cutesy version of our history. That doesn't lead me to do .....
But besides the doctrinal issues which I have not addressed- the one GLARING ommission in this ministry is the lack of teaching about Christ. We either cannot or do not teach him from the Word. For crying out loud it is Christ that makes KNOWN GOD. I have been listening and reading all the materials and just listening for anything that would teach me about Christ from the scriptures. IT ISN'T THERE. And I beg WayGB's pardon when I say one teaching on Christ as a youth is NOT ENOUGH SPIRITUAL MEAT for me. God wrote a whole book where Christ is the subject. Apparently this is secret knowledge only reserved for the spiritual aristocracy. And I know what the WayGB will think when and if they read this. This is where this poster is headed ... to worshipping Christ and the trinity... blah blah blah... Well to that I say - b*ll..... I will never believe in the trinity or worship christ. The apostle Paul said that he wanted to know the love of christ which passeth knowledge and to be filled with all the fulness of God. If you read the epistles you will see that to know Christ is to know God (of course.) And this ministry is found wanting in this area.
Now, to leave or not leave is an issue that must be decided but I am approaching this from the angle of I will study and prove all things and I will hold fast that which is good and wherever that leads is where I am heading. On a practical level I suspect that the fork in the road is not far but I am not rushing it right now.
I right there with you about Christ making known God. I have come to have an EXTREME desire to know more about him since he is the head of the Church. TWI teaches that he is the subject of the whole Word, but they don't teach on his functions today. Obviously as the head, he must have some. I think they've missed the boat big time in this area. It's not about the trinity and worshipping him as God. There's just more to it than we've been told, and I'm on a mission to find out.
I hope you fast track to your fork in the road. Even though I have been through some emotional times in the last month, I don't regret my decison one iota.
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
Hmmm, why I am still in now? That is a good question. I do not want to make a decision based on anger (although spiritual anger is not wrong) or on being hasty (although we should run to keep his commandments).
There are quite a few people that leave on their own as well. I left on my own, although for different reasons than you would.
quote:Originally posted by troubledwine:
I have seen many people (like you have seen) that just get mad or reproved and that is why they leave. That route isn't for me. The route that I aspire to take is the route that proves all things and holds fast the good. I too am questioning how much good can come by staying.
I think it's better to leave on your own of your own mind than to be kicked out too. I'm not really sure why, other than the fact that I like to be in control of such things in my life.
quote:Originally posted by troubledwine:
The very sad reality I am faced with, is - is this ministry willing to go against what Dr Weirwille taught if he was wrong? If the answer to that question is no - then all that is left is propping up a denomination (if in fact he was wrong on certain issues.) It seems unimaginable that a ministry FOUNDED on a man who stopped going to his church to seek the truth could fall into that situation. But if so - so be it, it wouldn't be the first time or the last.
The thing is that TWI has already become a denomination. Even ignoring the doctrinal issues that press your mind, consider the priorities in the organization. There is so much tradition, legalism, and preaching rather than teaching. The way meetings have to be held has become a tradition now, with no room for improvisation or change to fit how things need to be. The "new dynamic church" is all but a memory now. The things you have to go through to remain part of TWI are rediculous. You have to give notice to your HFC and another HFC elsewhere if you want to attend fellowship with one of your friends one day. How much actual learning do you have? While verses are read from the bible, the things you are told to focus on for teachings and individual study are collaterals, Way magazine articles, and SNS tapes. When was the last time you were able to teach from the bible on a topic without being told to base it off of whatever headquarters wanted you to focus on?
The whole idea of doing things, "decent and in order" has superceded the "new dynamic church." Things are no longer customizable to meet the needs of the individual, the individual is forced to conform to the desires of those in New Knoxville.
The Way International is a denomination, a small, weak, weird denomination, but there is definitely not the spark of life that used to be in it.
It is interesting isn't it -- this lack of dyanmic. It's interesting you bring this up because I started a thread called what constitutes a denomination -- thinking of these very things.
It is interesting isn't it -- this lack of dyanmic. It's interesting you bring this up because I started a thread called what constitutes a denomination -- thinking of these very things.
I saw that. I'll cross post what I mentioned here there, and hopefully more people will discuss it, because I think it's a very good observation.
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Troubled:
I wanted the special would be a deciding point for me. If what I saw there was promising, then I would stay. I was trying like hell to make it worth staying to keep my life simpler. I wouldn't have to tell my leaderdang I was leaving, wouldn't have to tell my boyfriend I was leaving, but that meant putting on my best twig face. The thought of living a lie was killing me. I guess you could say the great fellowship was my promise. It certainly wasn't the rehashed teaching, that BORING twi history lession from RFR, or the major lack of sleep I endured that made me want to stay. I realized I had to be true to my heart of hearts.
When I started posting on GS, I wanted substantiated, solid evidence of the phoniness of the current bod. I heard some information which helped me to put 2 and 2 together from things I knew about while at HQ. This helped me to see their creepy ways. That helped me to make a decision that I wouldn't support the evil twi.
So now, I answered you. I went to your other posts to learn more about you. You seem pretty knowledgeable about stuff that went on. Tell me why you stay? Obviously you know twi isn't Rosie.
By the way, you mentioned something I wrote on another post about rfr makign people apologize for wrongs they did. The person I was mentioning was a dept coord who was also mentioned on another post about lesbians of the way. I heard this information second hand. Even if it were true, it doesn't make Rozi rosey.
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
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troubledwine
Hmmm, why I am still in now? That is a good question. I do not want to make a decision based on anger (although spiritual anger is not wrong) or on being hasty (although we should run to keep his commandments).
I have seen many people (like you have seen) that just get mad or reproved and that is why they leave. That route isn't for me. The route that I aspire to take is the route that proves all things and holds fast the good. I too am questioning how much good can come by staying.
The very sad reality I am faced with, is - is this ministry willing to go against what Dr Weirwille taught if he was wrong? If the answer to that question is no - then all that is left is propping up a denomination (if in fact he was wrong on certain issues.) It seems unimaginable that a ministry FOUNDED on a man who stopped going to his church to seek the truth could fall into that situation. But if so - so be it, it wouldn't be the first time or the last.
Take this ministry year for an example. This year is all about the walk of believing but we are going through the collaterals. What heals peoples hearts of hurt and wrongs is teaching the word not reminiscing about the good old days. How can you teach the walk of believing without teaching what walk means? How can you teach the walk of believing without teaching what energizes it? And how can you teach what energizes it without teaching without getting into god loved us first and HIS goodness leads us to repentance? -- not VPW's and not our cutesy version of our history. That doesn't lead me to do .....
But besides the doctrinal issues which I have not addressed- the one GLARING ommission in this ministry is the lack of teaching about Christ. We either cannot or do not teach him from the Word. For crying out loud it is Christ that makes KNOWN GOD. I have been listening and reading all the materials and just listening for anything that would teach me about Christ from the scriptures. IT ISN'T THERE. And I beg WayGB's pardon when I say one teaching on Christ as a youth is NOT ENOUGH SPIRITUAL MEAT for me. God wrote a whole book where Christ is the subject. Apparently this is secret knowledge only reserved for the spiritual aristocracy. And I know what the WayGB will think when and if they read this. This is where this poster is headed ... to worshipping Christ and the trinity... blah blah blah... Well to that I say - b*ll..... I will never believe in the trinity or worship christ. The apostle Paul said that he wanted to know the love of christ which passeth knowledge and to be filled with all the fulness of God. If you read the epistles you will see that to know Christ is to know God (of course.) And this ministry is found wanting in this area.
Now, to leave or not leave is an issue that must be decided but I am approaching this from the angle of I will study and prove all things and I will hold fast that which is good and wherever that leads is where I am heading. On a practical level I suspect that the fork in the road is not far but I am not rushing it right now.
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Nottawayfer
Troubledwine:
I right there with you about Christ making known God. I have come to have an EXTREME desire to know more about him since he is the head of the Church. TWI teaches that he is the subject of the whole Word, but they don't teach on his functions today. Obviously as the head, he must have some. I think they've missed the boat big time in this area. It's not about the trinity and worshipping him as God. There's just more to it than we've been told, and I'm on a mission to find out.
I hope you fast track to your fork in the road. Even though I have been through some emotional times in the last month, I don't regret my decison one iota.
To handle yourself, use your head; to handle others, use your heart.
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troubledwine
wayfer not -- check out your private topics section -- I emailed you there....
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Mister P-Mosh
There are quite a few people that leave on their own as well. I left on my own, although for different reasons than you would.
I think it's better to leave on your own of your own mind than to be kicked out too. I'm not really sure why, other than the fact that I like to be in control of such things in my life.
The thing is that TWI has already become a denomination. Even ignoring the doctrinal issues that press your mind, consider the priorities in the organization. There is so much tradition, legalism, and preaching rather than teaching. The way meetings have to be held has become a tradition now, with no room for improvisation or change to fit how things need to be. The "new dynamic church" is all but a memory now. The things you have to go through to remain part of TWI are rediculous. You have to give notice to your HFC and another HFC elsewhere if you want to attend fellowship with one of your friends one day. How much actual learning do you have? While verses are read from the bible, the things you are told to focus on for teachings and individual study are collaterals, Way magazine articles, and SNS tapes. When was the last time you were able to teach from the bible on a topic without being told to base it off of whatever headquarters wanted you to focus on?
The whole idea of doing things, "decent and in order" has superceded the "new dynamic church." Things are no longer customizable to meet the needs of the individual, the individual is forced to conform to the desires of those in New Knoxville.
The Way International is a denomination, a small, weak, weird denomination, but there is definitely not the spark of life that used to be in it.
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troubledwine
Hi P-Mosh,
It is interesting isn't it -- this lack of dyanmic. It's interesting you bring this up because I started a thread called what constitutes a denomination -- thinking of these very things.
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Mister P-Mosh
I saw that. I'll cross post what I mentioned here there, and hopefully more people will discuss it, because I think it's a very good observation.
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