I have seen individuals give out of their own pocket, and I've heard about some leaders using "abundant sharing"* money and not reporting it, but I have not ever heard that TWI officially helped anyone out.
*A personal note: I abhor using the term "ABS" - it was a friggin' blue form abbreviation!
I knew a state coordinator that had a fund called Meet A Need (MAN) but I wasn't that privy to it. I remember that certain believers contributed to it (those with money of course)along with their ABS. I only know of one person (interim Corps) that was helped with a medical expense. There may have been others but again I wasn't privy to the information.
I've never heard of The Way helping any individuals financially. The argument was always that if you do something for one person you have to do it for everyone. Since we are not prepared to do it for everyone, we'll do it for no one.
I have helped people out of my own pocket, and have been tempted to set up a side fund just for helping local people but never did. Any giving to help individuals was always between the individuals and not a ministry sanctioned deal.
That said, TWI has contributed to the Red Cross on occasion, namely after a few significant disasters. Also they contributed a bunch of equipment to community organizations after they stopped doing the ROA. These seemed to be with the motive of engendering good will in the community.
I remember hearing in the early days veepee bragging that he and Dotsie used to take people into their home to get well, although in reality it could have been the numerous veepee rape victims they were trying to keep quiet, also I remember Harve Platig after his deprogramming recovery, they "helped" him recover at Hqtrs...unknown what that all entailed....
I think they supported some believers in Zaire, a desperately poor country, but don't have any facts so don't know how many believers, or how often funds might have been sent. Maybe they just paid (a salary?) to the Corps grad there. It was a very long time ago, late 80s probably.
Funny, isn't it, that we should have to guess. I know what my church spends money on, what organisations it supports, etc. One or is it two orphanages in Romania; Send A Cow (started by a church member); mission outreach in Albania; as well as an impoverished area of the city, homeless charities in the city, and so on; also supporting individuals at times of need by, for example, provision of meals or other support (family illness, mother giving birth, people moving home - they gave me 2 x 4-person frozen meals, very kind and completely unexpected - and other unexpected events).
"I knew him, spent time w/ him, got to know his family, baby sat his grand kids, worked w/ him, had a reasonably prominent position in "his ministry," had his trust & respect & made decisions that effected "the whole ministry." I'm certainly not the ultimate authority on VPW, but I did know him & he knew me and liked me, so much so that he personally paid the final tuition amount that I needed to graduate from TWC."
I don't know anyone else had such an experience of him paying for anything.
In fact, in one of his "BY THE WAY" articles, he made a point of saying he was a lousy tipper.
(He tipped a very low percentage.)
twi was organized so the money all went one-way. Way East and Way West were taken over from the people who
built and ran them SPECIFICALLY to centralize the money and the power.
The men who set them up were disinterested in both-which made them "poor stewards" as vpw saw it-
they would actually have used their authority and money for the benefit of the people in their areas,
WW, I thought that poster might have been HCW, he had a very unique perspective and hands on interaction with VP and family in the early days at hq. Â
He doesn't post much anymore, but I wish he would, his posts actually were the thing that drew me into the depths of GS and kept me searching the forums when I first started checking GS out...
By the way, VP was a real Jekyll and Hyde type of person.
Ridiculous that anyone should have to guess. The reason given by the directors in recent years is that the information about how they spent money would be used against them by the "cop outs". The law doesn't require it (aside from the small amount of disclosure required in Arizona) so they don't do it.
Personally, I doubt there is any misuse of the funds for the personal benefit of the directors. However, I know they .... away the money they do receive. If you broke it down, they spend the bulk of the money on the weekly (weakly?) Sunday service. When you take in all the building maintenance, support staff, etc it takes to do the service - the bulk of the "ABS" is spent on the STS. If wayfers knew how much of their contributions were going to these painfully dull productions, many of them would be angered. Some might stop "giving".
Funny, isn't it, that we should have to guess. I know what my church spends money on, what organisations it supports, etc. One or is it two orphanages in Romania; Send A Cow (started by a church member); mission outreach in Albania; as well as an impoverished area of the city, homeless charities in the city, and so on; also supporting individuals at times of need by, for example, provision of meals or other support (family illness, mother giving birth, people moving home - they gave me 2 x 4-person frozen meals, very kind and completely unexpected - and other unexpected events).
Ridiculous that anyone should have to guess. The reason given by the directors in recent years is that the information about how they spent money would be used against them by the "cop outs". The law doesn't require it (aside from the small amount of disclosure required in Arizona) so they don't do it.
How unbelievably lame. Joyce Meyer when faced with similar kinds of scrutiny and questions publicized her financial books for any who want to look at them. I think you can download them off a link on her main website.
Notice the basic difference of character there of the leadership of two Christian ministries. Yet TWI still wants to hold some kind of elitist view of themselves as the greatest Christian ministry since the first century.
Ummm, sorry guys. You don't even measure up to your peers. Except in your ability to cover things up and make excuses.
If you broke it down, they spend the bulk of the money on the weekly (weakly?) Sunday service. When you take in all the building maintenance, support staff, etc it takes to do the service - the bulk of the "ABS" is spent on the STS. If wayfers knew how much of their contributions were going to these painfully dull productions, many of them would be angered. Some might stop "giving".
I doubt it. 15% is basically the cost of belonging to the household in the coming age. It doesn't really matter where it's going now. It's a prepayment for the future.
I'm not sure what they do now, the fact that there's still this veil of secrecy around the abs and the finacials of twi evokes skepticism from me, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them, absolute power corrupts, the ones in charge at twi now are all lying sacks of s--- IMO. Â The only reason they wouldn't be misappropriating funds is because they don't want to be ousted like LCM, or someone has put in new checks and balances, not because they are so honest or trustworthy. Â I'd like to see some proof one way or the other....better not hold my breath.
As far as the old guard is concerned, there are reports here on GS regarding old vpee getting numerous large cash advances, even old posts from waydale concerning gold stashes in limb homes, maybe DontWorryBeHappy or some of the older posters could comment on that for us.
As far as the old guard is concerned, there are reports here on GS regarding old vpee getting numerous large cash advances, even old posts from waydale concerning gold stashes in limb homes, maybe DontWorryBeHappy or some of the older posters could comment on that for us.
There's been a number of posts reminding the rest of us about when vpw would visit places.
The locals would pass the hat around, and he would be given some physical present (like a MOTORCYCLE)
or the like. Other times, he would be given the cash that was collected.
Of course, when he visited, it was required that he stay at someone's home- he never did anything like
PAY FOR A HOTEL ROOM.
Does anyone here think that the presents or UNTRACEABLE CASH were ever declared on his INCOME TAX?
They WERE TAXABLE INCOME....
I'm not sure about the overnight stays, but I don't think anyone would lose sleep over whether that was
actually declared on taxes (although that IS a present and took the place of him spending cash.)
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Oakspear
I have seen individuals give out of their own pocket, and I've heard about some leaders using "abundant sharing"* money and not reporting it, but I have not ever heard that TWI officially helped anyone out.
*A personal note: I abhor using the term "ABS" - it was a friggin' blue form abbreviation!
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imperatrice
I knew a state coordinator that had a fund called Meet A Need (MAN) but I wasn't that privy to it. I remember that certain believers contributed to it (those with money of course)along with their ABS. I only know of one person (interim Corps) that was helped with a medical expense. There may have been others but again I wasn't privy to the information.
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shortfuse
I've never heard of The Way helping any individuals financially. The argument was always that if you do something for one person you have to do it for everyone. Since we are not prepared to do it for everyone, we'll do it for no one.
I have helped people out of my own pocket, and have been tempted to set up a side fund just for helping local people but never did. Any giving to help individuals was always between the individuals and not a ministry sanctioned deal.
That said, TWI has contributed to the Red Cross on occasion, namely after a few significant disasters. Also they contributed a bunch of equipment to community organizations after they stopped doing the ROA. These seemed to be with the motive of engendering good will in the community.
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now I see
I remember hearing in the early days veepee bragging that he and Dotsie used to take people into their home to get well, although in reality it could have been the numerous veepee rape victims they were trying to keep quiet, also I remember Harve Platig after his deprogramming recovery, they "helped" him recover at Hqtrs...unknown what that all entailed....
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waysider
They wouldn't even foot the bill for "refreshments" at PLAF (The Wonder Class).
What does that tell you?
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Twinky
They gave money to the Red Cross?? ("cross"???)
I think they supported some believers in Zaire, a desperately poor country, but don't have any facts so don't know how many believers, or how often funds might have been sent. Maybe they just paid (a salary?) to the Corps grad there. It was a very long time ago, late 80s probably.
Funny, isn't it, that we should have to guess. I know what my church spends money on, what organisations it supports, etc. One or is it two orphanages in Romania; Send A Cow (started by a church member); mission outreach in Albania; as well as an impoverished area of the city, homeless charities in the city, and so on; also supporting individuals at times of need by, for example, provision of meals or other support (family illness, mother giving birth, people moving home - they gave me 2 x 4-person frozen meals, very kind and completely unexpected - and other unexpected events).
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WordWolf
Of all the posters who've ever posted at the GSC, I recall ONE who had such a story.
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...amp;qpid=320908
"I knew him, spent time w/ him, got to know his family, baby sat his grand kids, worked w/ him, had a reasonably prominent position in "his ministry," had his trust & respect & made decisions that effected "the whole ministry." I'm certainly not the ultimate authority on VPW, but I did know him & he knew me and liked me, so much so that he personally paid the final tuition amount that I needed to graduate from TWC."
I don't know anyone else had such an experience of him paying for anything.
In fact, in one of his "BY THE WAY" articles, he made a point of saying he was a lousy tipper.
(He tipped a very low percentage.)
twi was organized so the money all went one-way. Way East and Way West were taken over from the people who
built and ran them SPECIFICALLY to centralize the money and the power.
The men who set them up were disinterested in both-which made them "poor stewards" as vpw saw it-
they would actually have used their authority and money for the benefit of the people in their areas,
not specifically for twi. Shame, shame, shame!
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now I see
WW, I thought that poster might have been HCW, he had a very unique perspective and hands on interaction with VP and family in the early days at hq. Â
He doesn't post much anymore, but I wish he would, his posts actually were the thing that drew me into the depths of GS and kept me searching the forums when I first started checking GS out...
By the way, VP was a real Jekyll and Hyde type of person.
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shortfuse
Ridiculous that anyone should have to guess. The reason given by the directors in recent years is that the information about how they spent money would be used against them by the "cop outs". The law doesn't require it (aside from the small amount of disclosure required in Arizona) so they don't do it.
Personally, I doubt there is any misuse of the funds for the personal benefit of the directors. However, I know they .... away the money they do receive. If you broke it down, they spend the bulk of the money on the weekly (weakly?) Sunday service. When you take in all the building maintenance, support staff, etc it takes to do the service - the bulk of the "ABS" is spent on the STS. If wayfers knew how much of their contributions were going to these painfully dull productions, many of them would be angered. Some might stop "giving".
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chockfull
How unbelievably lame. Joyce Meyer when faced with similar kinds of scrutiny and questions publicized her financial books for any who want to look at them. I think you can download them off a link on her main website.
Notice the basic difference of character there of the leadership of two Christian ministries. Yet TWI still wants to hold some kind of elitist view of themselves as the greatest Christian ministry since the first century.
Ummm, sorry guys. You don't even measure up to your peers. Except in your ability to cover things up and make excuses.
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Tzaia
I doubt it. 15% is basically the cost of belonging to the household in the coming age. It doesn't really matter where it's going now. It's a prepayment for the future.
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now I see
I'm not sure what they do now, the fact that there's still this veil of secrecy around the abs and the finacials of twi evokes skepticism from me, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them, absolute power corrupts, the ones in charge at twi now are all lying sacks of s--- IMO. Â The only reason they wouldn't be misappropriating funds is because they don't want to be ousted like LCM, or someone has put in new checks and balances, not because they are so honest or trustworthy. Â I'd like to see some proof one way or the other....better not hold my breath.
As far as the old guard is concerned, there are reports here on GS regarding old vpee getting numerous large cash advances, even old posts from waydale concerning gold stashes in limb homes, maybe DontWorryBeHappy or some of the older posters could comment on that for us.
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WordWolf
There's been a number of posts reminding the rest of us about when vpw would visit places.
The locals would pass the hat around, and he would be given some physical present (like a MOTORCYCLE)
or the like. Other times, he would be given the cash that was collected.
Of course, when he visited, it was required that he stay at someone's home- he never did anything like
PAY FOR A HOTEL ROOM.
Does anyone here think that the presents or UNTRACEABLE CASH were ever declared on his INCOME TAX?
They WERE TAXABLE INCOME....
I'm not sure about the overnight stays, but I don't think anyone would lose sleep over whether that was
actually declared on taxes (although that IS a present and took the place of him spending cash.)
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Ham
What about the loyster? Didn't he live off of a trail of "traceable" untraceable cash? Gifts- "love offerings".. etc etc?
I don't think there is a statute of limitations on tax evasion..
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coolchef
when in need in my area we all took care of each other
never a dime of our abs came back to us and i am glad of that
i recieved help at one time from my twig and gave it many times
i am sure God knew our heart and screw twi
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