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Did you receive training in the whole Word?


Kevlar2000
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I liked the "Left Behind" fictional series. Good entertaining reading. Of course I had to get past looking down my nose at them as inferior and inaccurate first (had to smack down the haughty twi thoughts). But the authors have done a whole lot more work in Revelation than I will ever get to.

actually that's quite humorous. it really amounted to ignore sections of the Bible and any new work in them and to follow the example of plagiarism set by der fadder in der verd.

Hi Cockfull, I like the Left Behind series too – except I’m left behind at about book 7 – I was borrowing them from a guy where I used to work and I don’t work there anymore…I don’t agree with every detail of how they flesh out everything – but hey, it’s makes for entertaining reading. Even if some things are not “accurate” to what will actually happen – I enjoy a story that challenges me to think about the bigger issues of life. Maybe that’s why I’m a big science fiction fan. Even as a kid I loved a sci fi story that got me to think on a larger scale.

Like “The Invisible Man” – what would you do if you had the power to go anywhere and find out the secrets of men? The book also made the point that power corrupts…But hey, I digress…I don’t really think anyone has got the whole scoop on Revelation – I’m just taking it all in myself, hoping for the return of my Lord…and if I’m wrong and wind up in the midst of the great tribulation at least I’ve got some commentaries with the appropriate viewpoint that may be helpful on the details I ignored.

Hey Chockfull - in that bit that you excerpted - you didn't take it all wholly seriously, did you? The last sentence should be accompanied by shaking of the head, cringing, or other "denial" activity!

T-Bone: I think we were told that Revelation was future, and could not be understood or properly interpreted going forwards, but after it all happened, we would be able to look back and see that it had all been predicted.

Possibly part of the knowing in part now (1 Cor 13), but we'll get the full knowledge later.

We didn't get a lot from books like Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel, except the odd out of context verse or short extract here and there. And there's a lot still to come from those books. (Yes, they did have the Way of Holiness theme one year, and that was a quote from Isaiah - but it wasn't a study of that book.)

I really think that they only quoted stuff from those books and the so-called minor prophets simply to show off and to give the illusion of knowing and teaching the whole word. But most of it was out of context or flashed over too fast to really consider the full impact. Just showing off.

"The rupture of the PFAL church" - ha ha ha :biglaugh:

Yeah Twinky – I can appreciate that to a degree I guess…but that’s why I threw in the blessing mentioned in Rev:1:3. I think a reader can draw so much from the book regardless of their viewpoint. Though some symbols & events may be tough to impossible to interpret, the great themes such as God’s sovereignty, the battle between good & evil or the interesting way events in heaven & on earth are intertwined [noted especially in Bullinger’s commentary] I tend to think would bolster one’s faith.

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I think the book of Revelation was academically too challenging for him, and would too easily dislodge some of his "foundational" teachings if he set some of his "college boys" onto the task of researching it.

What else would "the teacher", lol, be afraid of?  His ego wouldn't allow for some college boy in the Research dept to show him up.

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Yeah, now I see, that's exactly what it was. Either that, or he couldn't find a commentary that he liked sufficiently well to plagiarise.

God didn't have to have Revelation written.

And Jesus didn't have to tell it to John.

And John didn't have to listen, or at least, write it all down.

The book is there because we are supposed to read it! Not only that, we are supposed to keep (like a treasure) the words of the book.

How can you treasure something that you don't know you have?

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I think the book of Revelation was academically too challenging for him, and would too easily dislodge some of his "foundational" teachings if he set some of his "college boys" onto the task of researching it.

What else would "the teacher", lol, be afraid of?  His ego wouldn't allow for some college boy in the Research dept to show him up.

I'm not sure why Mr. Wierwille declined to tackle Revelation; "academic challenge" or the prospect of having his work stand up to rigorous academic scrutiny never seemed to perturb him much.

I don't think he worried too much about his "college boys" contradicting him. He seemed to have a pretty firm leash on that operation. After all, regardless of anything else he might say, it was implicitly understood The Way International, Incorporated belonged to him and, as the MOGFODAT (gosh, that's a funny acronym to say out loud!), he called the shots.

I mean, this is the guy that taught the original sin was masturbation, and admitted in his Christian Family and Sex class he couldn't prove it from bible.

So he went ahead and taught it anyway.

The end of days as described in Revelation is at least grazed over if not lovingly pored over by most christian denominations. For many Christians, the triumphant return of Jesus Christ to defeat Satan and destroy his evil forever, to establish His kingdom for ever and ever is the whole point of everything they endure. It is the "hope of glory".

And yet in the Way, which considered itself as the foremost biblical research and teaching (yeah, and fellowship) ministry in the world, the subject was virtually untouched.

Edited by Kevlar2000
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I'm not sure why Mr. Wierwille declined to tackle Revelation; "academic challenge" or the prospect of having his work stand up to rigorous academic scrutiny never seemed to perturb him much.

I don't think he worried too much about his "college boys" contradicting him. He seemed to have a pretty firm leash on that operation. After all, regardless of anything else he might say, it was implicitly understood The Way International, Incorporated belonged to him and, as the MOGFODAT (gosh, that's a funny acronym to say out loud!), he called the shots.

I don't know about that Kevlar, one of those college boys started what brought down the ministry by writing a paper on adultery about two years after vpee's death...

I think one of the reasons vpee plagerized and relied on "inspiration" so much for all his teachings and books was because he was so inept academically, he had nothing else to go on.  Because PLAF never got too deep into the book of Rev, and we know he plagerized that whole class, Revelation was a black hole to him.

Just my speculative opinion...

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I think one reason he didn't teach it was that it wasn't written to us (although it's certainly "for our learning"). I didn't hear much about the tribulation and whatever from anyone until after the exodus when JAL sported a bumper sticker that said "I'd rather be gathered".

I dunno. I always felt free to study whatever I wanted. Maybe not free to discuss it, but certainly free to study it.

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I think one reason he didn't teach it was that it wasn't written to us (although it's certainly "for our learning"). I didn't hear much about the tribulation and whatever from anyone until after the exodus when JAL sported a bumper sticker that said "I'd rather be gathered".

I dunno. I always felt free to study whatever I wanted. Maybe not free to discuss it, but certainly free to study it.

Yes - but that wasn't "receiving training in the whole Word." (A supposed benefit Corps principle.) That was your study time.

*mumbles- maybe there was no believing for training in the whole word- back to the Blue Book - what a scam!*

Like I said - "Swiss Cheese 101"

Edited by doojable
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Yes - but that wasn't "receiving training in the whole Word." (A supposed benefit Corps principle.) That was your study time.

*mumbles- maybe there was no believing for training in the whole word- back to the Blue Book - what a scam!*

Like I said - "Swiss Cheese 101"

Ah, the infamous Blue Cheese book by Cheez Whiz.

It takes a really sharp person to rightly divide this stuff...and I wanna tell ya - on Corps Night you could always bank on a few exceptional individuals to cut the cheese.

Edited by T-Bone
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I think one reason he didn't teach it was that it wasn't written to us (although it's certainly "for our learning").

One would have to play into his bogus (and borrowed) dispensational theology in order to accept that.

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Wasn't there some teaching and maybe some one else can corroborate this about how there was no way we could understand Revelations because it had so many eastern isms and other stuff I can not remember all the names but there were all these complicated issues so that it would be impossible to actually study and understand... Now in my head I hear VP saying it.... was it in the class or a Saturday night teaching... or just one of those things taught at corp that got passed on down to we the peons, and I have muddled who said it.

I guess what I mean is it seems that the thought when I was in the Way was that Revelations was not written to us and even so it was too complicated to really understand and get correctly.

Or so I was told, when I questioned it.

Okay maybe I heard it from one of the Corps WOW's when I took PIFL class...

SHeesh obviously my memory is full of that swiss cheese

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Wasn't there some teaching and maybe some one else can corroborate this about how there was no way we could understand Revelations because it had so many eastern isms and other stuff I can not remember all the names but there were all these complicated issues so that it would be impossible to actually study and understand... Now in my head I hear VP saying it.... was it in the class or a Saturday night teaching... or just one of those things taught at corp that got passed on down to we the peons, and I have muddled who said it.

I guess what I mean is it seems that the thought when I was in the Way was that Revelations was not written to us and even so it was too complicated to really understand and get correctly.

Or so I was told, when I questioned it.

Okay maybe I heard it from one of the Corps WOW's when I took PIFL class...

SHeesh obviously my memory is full of that swiss cheese

You got it close Leafy. Actually what was said by VP was that people made it complicated, but it wasn't all that complicated to him. All you needed to do, he said, was "understand a few Orientalisms". He said that in PFAL. In other words, only he really understood it. I was "in" for 15 years and never heard much taught on the Book of Revelation.

Edited by erkjohn
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The way Revelation was handled from my recollection was taught from the perspective of extreme dispensationalism, or "administrations". After the gathering together, then there would be something in the bloodline of Israel that would be "energized", and the book of Revelation would open up to them at that time. The "to whom it is written" concept. This all justified largely avoiding it, although VP would make some vague references to things like the "white throne judgement" and other things like that without actually getting into them.

Interestingly enough, still a whole lot of specifics were used out of Revelation to pinpoint the accuracy of JC's birth to a 91 minute period (and unpublished even closer). That's in JCPS.

From my perspective, while there is some value in the "administrations" teachings, the extremity of their point of view allowed them to basically ignore whole sections of scriptures unless it was something they wanted to pull out to enforce something (like the absolute nature of tithing, debt, Levitical hierarchies). And the extreme critical view of others' teachings in the gospels (4 Crucified, day JC died, dying proclamation, etc.) highlights that even when they do delve into other areas it is from an egotistical elitist perspective.

Edited by chockfull
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You got it close Leafy. Actually what was said by VP was that people made it complicated, but it wasn't all that complicated to him. All you needed to do, he said, was "understand a few Orientalisms". He said that in PFAL. In other words, only he really understood it. I was "in" for 15 years and never heard much taught on the Book of Revelation.

Which he didn't. This was yet another example of him confusing the relatively simple. Do any of you feel like you have a greater understanding of scripture because you know that flatbread resembles flat stones and that your father wouldn't give you a stone if he knew you wanted bread? Seriously.

Once I had actually traveled to the middle east, it was very obvious the guy had no idea what he was talking about when it came to using "orientalisms" to explain biblical context. A humanities class provides more insight.

Once I started studying religion in general and early Christianity in particular, it was glaring what the guy either didn't know, didn't understand, or simply ignored. I don't know. What I do know is that once I took an academic approach, it was really apparent that he was out there.

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