I always go back to when Dorthia W. talked about her and vp going to India, and how she was forced to give up JP, her 6 mo old son, so as she could accompany vpee on his journey. I believe she said that was the hardest thing she'd ever had to do.
I think it's very telling statement on how important vpee's own children were to him, it says it all.
I could not conceive of doing that to a child of mine and handing him over to someone else at such a young age. You could tell from what ms w said that she didn't want to do it.....so sad really.
Does anybody remember the teachings when wierwille thought that russia was going to take over?
How we were told that if it was a question of survival, let the kids die...that we could always have more, but that we would be the only repositories for the word and that must survive.
How about abortion being required for babies conceived while involved in a twi program?
And yet we were supposed to have a "quiver full" of children.
Oh yeah.....what a crock.
Imagine how challenging it would have been to cart around five or six kids to every twig, every branch function and rock of ages? Sure, I remember two or three families like this........but it certainly wasn't the norm.
And, when corps were assigned to different locations every three years.......moving kids from school to school would be crazy instability. Of course, I suppose home schooling would have its advantages in this type of lifestyle.
Children have a way of bring you some reality to life. :)
Skyrider is correct - however later on Dorothea started teaching this corps class called something like "how to be a christian wife" or some such thing where she taught it was god first, then yourself (because you couldn't do anything for family if you were not taken care of), your spouse, your children, others.
In either case (or any case where TWI "taught" anything about parenting) the children came out on the losing side of parental attention, love, schooling, nurturing, etc etc.
This is all content in the Christian family classes taught. okie and donna had their class they taught, which had this content of course. But there was no place in teaching segments for where the harem fit in, or the side relationship with r0s@lie o'donnell. So that was replaced with a more vanilla version taught by the C0ulters which is where it's at now.
The funny thing is when people actually try to live those concepts. Try missing a class due to children or spouse priorities. Then you'd hear some blockhead sputter about how the class is really part of your relationship with God and guilt you into it. Really? I thought that was my reading / prayer time. The funny part - okie and donna's class talked about toddlers and bedtimes and suggested like 7:30 or 8 as a bedtime. Oh, but that's during fellowship. Again getting to hear blockheads sputter.
In reality the best way to live a Christian family is to avoid TWI. Read / teach the Bible at home, be an example as a parent and keep people out of your family business.
And yet we were supposed to have a "quiver full" of children.
You mean except for when they had a policy where no Corps or Staff could get pregnant because they couldn't afford it.
The last ROA('95) there was a huge number of small children. When you have an RV full of preschoolers, someone can't volunteer, someone can't hit all the meetings and you might bring your own boxes of mac & cheese for meals (I know we did!) I think that was one of the reasons they canceled the ROAs--demographics had changed so much.
You are absolutely right...there is no wonder why they would bolt at 18...The twi culture has always been repressive and controlling towards young people...kids were never allowed to be kids. I feel for you guys that were raised in twi...not quite the same as eating a lot of lsd and listening to Jerry Garcia.
Gayle Sayers said The Lord is first, my friends are second, and I am third in the book I Am Third. There was a movie about it too, called Brian's Song. I think that was the name, anyway.
But I don't believe I ever heard it used in The Way. Maybe it was, I just don't remember hearing it myself.
The last ROA('95) there was a huge number of small children. When you have an RV full of preschoolers, someone can't volunteer, someone can't hit all the meetings and you might bring your own boxes of mac & cheese for meals (I know we did!) I think that was one of the reasons they canceled the ROAs--demographics had changed so much.
I would have loved that ROA. Children bring us all back to earth.. it is hard to be thinking bogus ethereal thoughts while changing a diaper.
I love it when there are kids around .. they are so much fun.
Gayle Sayers said The Lord is first, my friends are second, and I am third in the book I Am Third. There was a movie about it too, called Brian's Song. I think that was the name, anyway.
But I don't believe I ever heard it used in The Way. Maybe it was, I just don't remember hearing it myself.
I didn't hear it used in twi either.....
...but in "Lifelines", that was attributed to vpw like everything else.
"God is first, others second, I am willing to be third."
Which is rather rich to attribute to a man who was never willing to be SECOND, let alone THIRD.
To him, serving God was equated with making vpw first. Never in such direct terms, however...
...but in "Lifelines", that was attributed to vpw like everything else.
"God is first, others second, I am willing to be third."
Kids still get the short end on that one. One could argue that "others second" includes your kids. Well sorry - a little too general for me. My kids have their own category of priority and it is not generalized by the word "others."
I'm down to three sandwiches left, two children and me - then comes a knock at the door - hungry neighbor begging for food - a polite smile followed by "Sorry you're outta luck knocking on this door" Then my kids and I eat the sandwiches.
Substitute my "best friend" for hungry neighbor. Same response.
Substitute self-centered arrogant self-proclaimed MOG from TWI demanding "his due" and that I should put the MOG above the children...and the response does indeed change a little...something like "F*** you. Go starve twit."
Isn't this a little mixed? Unless you equate twi with family, which is true for some.
Wouldn't children be a family's litmus test? Whether to allow twi to take precedence or not? Although, twi and family, they are kinda one and the same.
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I always go back to when Dorthia W. talked about her and vp going to India, and how she was forced to give up JP, her 6 mo old son, so as she could accompany vpee on his journey. I believe she said that was the hardest thing she'd ever had to do.
I think it's very telling statement on how important vpee's own children were to him, it says it all.
I could not conceive of doing that to a child of mine and handing him over to someone else at such a young age. You could tell from what ms w said that she didn't want to do it.....so sad really.
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Tzaia
And yet we were supposed to have a "quiver full" of children.
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cheranne
That is just really really heartbreaking!
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skyrider
Oh yeah.....what a crock.
Imagine how challenging it would have been to cart around five or six kids to every twig, every branch function and rock of ages? Sure, I remember two or three families like this........but it certainly wasn't the norm.
And, when corps were assigned to different locations every three years.......moving kids from school to school would be crazy instability. Of course, I suppose home schooling would have its advantages in this type of lifestyle.
Children have a way of bring you some reality to life. :)
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chockfull
This is all content in the Christian family classes taught. okie and donna had their class they taught, which had this content of course. But there was no place in teaching segments for where the harem fit in, or the side relationship with r0s@lie o'donnell. So that was replaced with a more vanilla version taught by the C0ulters which is where it's at now.
The funny thing is when people actually try to live those concepts. Try missing a class due to children or spouse priorities. Then you'd hear some blockhead sputter about how the class is really part of your relationship with God and guilt you into it. Really? I thought that was my reading / prayer time. The funny part - okie and donna's class talked about toddlers and bedtimes and suggested like 7:30 or 8 as a bedtime. Oh, but that's during fellowship. Again getting to hear blockheads sputter.
In reality the best way to live a Christian family is to avoid TWI. Read / teach the Bible at home, be an example as a parent and keep people out of your family business.
You mean except for when they had a policy where no Corps or Staff could get pregnant because they couldn't afford it.
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skyrider
For sure........ANYTHING that separated you from having your butt in a plaf-class chair was of the devil.
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Bramble
The last ROA('95) there was a huge number of small children. When you have an RV full of preschoolers, someone can't volunteer, someone can't hit all the meetings and you might bring your own boxes of mac & cheese for meals (I know we did!) I think that was one of the reasons they canceled the ROAs--demographics had changed so much.
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GrouchoMarxJr
You are absolutely right...there is no wonder why they would bolt at 18...The twi culture has always been repressive and controlling towards young people...kids were never allowed to be kids. I feel for you guys that were raised in twi...not quite the same as eating a lot of lsd and listening to Jerry Garcia.
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Bluzeman
Gayle Sayers said The Lord is first, my friends are second, and I am third in the book I Am Third. There was a movie about it too, called Brian's Song. I think that was the name, anyway.
But I don't believe I ever heard it used in The Way. Maybe it was, I just don't remember hearing it myself.
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leafytwiglet
I would have loved that ROA. Children bring us all back to earth.. it is hard to be thinking bogus ethereal thoughts while changing a diaper.
I love it when there are kids around .. they are so much fun.
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WordWolf
I didn't hear it used in twi either.....
...but in "Lifelines", that was attributed to vpw like everything else.
"God is first, others second, I am willing to be third."
Which is rather rich to attribute to a man who was never willing to be SECOND, let alone THIRD.
To him, serving God was equated with making vpw first. Never in such direct terms, however...
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RumRunner
Kids still get the short end on that one. One could argue that "others second" includes your kids. Well sorry - a little too general for me. My kids have their own category of priority and it is not generalized by the word "others."
I'm down to three sandwiches left, two children and me - then comes a knock at the door - hungry neighbor begging for food - a polite smile followed by "Sorry you're outta luck knocking on this door" Then my kids and I eat the sandwiches.
Substitute my "best friend" for hungry neighbor. Same response.
Substitute self-centered arrogant self-proclaimed MOG from TWI demanding "his due" and that I should put the MOG above the children...and the response does indeed change a little...something like "F*** you. Go starve twit."
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Bolshevik
Isn't this a little mixed? Unless you equate twi with family, which is true for some.
Wouldn't children be a family's litmus test? Whether to allow twi to take precedence or not? Although, twi and family, they are kinda one and the same.
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