The World's Rubbish Dump

[Mister P-Mosh]

I went to meet someone off a plane yesterday. This particular plane journey had come from Singapore, don't know if it started there or came on from somewhere else. There was an astonishing number of Chinese-looking people emerging, all with close-fitting face masks. They clearly don't expect that the air in any airport could be breathable. How sad, I thought, that it was so much some people's expectations that they should live in an environment where they needed to wear those horrible things. I wonder what the life expectancy is in some of those Chinese cities that are the most industrialized? Their lives ... for western consumerism. Not a very fair bargain.

Pollution may or may not be the reason why. Although it's been mostly dropped from our news, the heart of the swine flu pandemic is the U.S. now (it has declined significantly in Mexico) and we have had over a million cases in the U.S., while our government does little and our media stopped covering it. However, it makes a great propaganda piece for China, and they have convinced their people that we are all hiding in our homes and how we are all dying from the swine flu here. Some Chinese friends have told me about their weird conversations with relatives about the swine flu and how the Chinese government/media makes it look over here.

[Bolshevik]

Well, the point I was trying to make was that Wierwille promoted, no, endorsed this "head in the sand" kind of attitude about environmental issues. According to him, this stuff was irrelevant because, even if Christ didn't return in our lifetime, we could use "believing" to fix it all. We can't really ruin the planet. It's just a trick of the adversary. Everything would be "okay" because God already saw it in his foreknowledge and had a plan to fix it. Don't bother wasting your time or money on these things.

Sell PLAF and keep the ABS flowing.

Concerns and worries that he did not invent distracted people from adoring him?

[RumRunner]

Pollution may or may not be the reason why. Although it's been mostly dropped from our news, the heart of the swine flu pandemic is the U.S. now (it has declined significantly in Mexico) and we have had over a million cases in the U.S., while our government does little and our media stopped covering it. However, it makes a great propaganda piece for China, and they have convinced their people that we are all hiding in our homes and how we are all dying from the swine flu here. Some Chinese friends have told me about their weird conversations with relatives about the swine flu and how the Chinese government/media makes it look over here.

http://www.who.int/csr/don/2009_07_06/en/index.html

Uhh nowhere near a million cases in the U.S. as reported to the WHO. Try 94,512 cases reported <--- world wide with just under 34,000 in the U.S. Given that the U.S. is pretty accurate at reporting while some other countries are less so one can presume that the total world wide is higher but nothing like a million in the U.S. CDC reported numbers (including D.C., Guam and Puerto Rico) are slightly higher at 37,246 with 211 confirmed deaths

http://cdc.gov/h1n1flu/update.htm

Let's not also forget that the two countries with the highest populace are notorious for bad reporting of disease.

[Nottawayfer]

I was horrified to see the Oprah show which targeted the Pacific Garbage Patch. It was sad to know that the particles of plastic in the plastic soup water is greater than the plankton, and fish are eating it. I love ocean fish, so it's in MY food chain, and it's darn scarey to me!

The other sad picture was of a turtle who got caught in a plastic ring and his shell grew around it. There's no reason for this to happen, and our use of plastics could be brought down to a minimum.

I'm sure the plastics manufacturers pay lobbyists TONS of money, so they will never go away. We can make them hurt if we consider what plastic we can live without and make sure we recycle our plastics, paper stryofoam, and aluminum. I see it as investing in the future. We can't leave a trash heap.

I don't care what the Bible says. Nobody can convince me it's a reason to to trash this beautiful earth.

I shudder to think of the amount of styrofoam containers trashed at TWI HQ. Convenience to move the Word is a cop-out excuse.

[Bolshevik]

That's cool I didn't know a turtle shell would do that. Of course, people do that to themselves with corsets and such.

[Nottawayfer]

That's cool I didn't know a turtle shell would do that. Of course, people do that to themselves with corsets and such.

I don't know what's cool about it. It's a shame that man's trash caused this. Who knows what internal organs are compromised because of this. Quite honestly it's MAJORLY effed up IMHO. These kinds of things SHOULD NOT HAPPEN!!

[waysider]

Fresh Garbage

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Edited July 11, 2009 by waysider

[Bolshevik]

I don't know what's cool about it. It's a shame that man's trash caused this. Who knows what internal organs are compromised because of this. Quite honestly it's MAJORLY effed up IMHO. These kinds of things SHOULD NOT HAPPEN!!

I picked up a turtle off of a four lane road near the mall today. He was almost a certain turtle pancake. I'm keeping him in the bathtub. He seems to like strawberries. I haven't figured out what species he is yet . . .

The simple existence and activity of one species threatens others. That's the way it's always been. I don't see why those things shouldn't happen. Turtles have been around long before humans. I wouldn't be surprised if they outlast us. Not that I'd be around to be surprised.

[Mister P-Mosh]

I picked up a turtle off of a four lane road near the mall today. He was almost a certain turtle pancake. I'm keeping him in the bathtub. He seems to like strawberries. I haven't figured out what species he is yet . . .

The simple existence and activity of one species threatens others. That's the way it's always been. I don't see why those things shouldn't happen. Turtles have been around long before humans. I wouldn't be surprised if they outlast us. Not that I'd be around to be surprised.

That's a pretty ridiculous view of things. No other animals have ever caused such large numbers of mass extinctions that mankind has in recent decades. Doesn't the fact that there is a pile of plastic the size of our nation (minus Alaska, I assume) floating in the ocean bother you? Perhaps it would be good if we didn't need to make such a big mess?

The end game in all of this isn't just that a few turtles suffer and die. It's that quite a bit of life on this planet ends, including mankind, as a result of our own stupidity. It's much slower than the nuclear war that we thought would ensue with the U.S.S.R., but it's just as effective.

[waysider]

Hey!

Maybe this rubbish dump thing explains why "Dr.'s Last Teaching" has been missing all these years. It's been floating amidst the miles and miles of toxic garbage, virtually indistinguishable from all the other trash.

[Bolshevik]

That's a pretty ridiculous view of things. No other animals have ever caused such large numbers of mass extinctions that mankind has in recent decades. Doesn't the fact that there is a pile of plastic the size of our nation (minus Alaska, I assume) floating in the ocean bother you? Perhaps it would be good if we didn't need to make such a big mess?

The end game in all of this isn't just that a few turtles suffer and die. It's that quite a bit of life on this planet ends, including mankind, as a result of our own stupidity. It's much slower than the nuclear war that we thought would ensue with the U.S.S.R., but it's just as effective.

flowering plants are thought to have killed off a lot of species

no, I don't care that much, not as much as most. Smart people's journeys end just the same as the dumb ones.

[Ham]

Perhaps.. but maybe the not so smart make a lot of bad purchases along the way..

death by bad shopping..

[Bolshevik]

Isn't China's pollution just part of a cycle? Just like developed countries went through? As they obtain wealth, they will change their methods?

[Ham]

Considering global awareness.. and all.. its a very very large irresponsible part of any larger "natural" cycle..

China has had it's rear kicked in any kind of colonialism..

the British beat the snot out of it, removing any wealth with its then legal opium trade..

now they (environmentally) just lay down to die..

sure, the government gets (a little bit) richer.. but who really stands to gain?

China once was a gem..

they weren't a "primitive" third world country or anything..

now they make war. They give the intruders exactly what they want.. probably the best weapon they could choose..

I don't know if I'd call this "natural" and all..

[Ham]

Tienanmen was the real turning point.. what do you think happened to all of those who wanted some change..

well.. those who weren't caught, prosecuted and jailed.. they went back to their huts.. and likely chose to just give the westerners exactly what they wanted..

its a curse. Well, in a slightly inebriated Squirrels opinion anyway..

[Bolshevik]

I thought they had the world's largest middle class. They even have Walmart, and a Chinese version of it also.

[Ham]

I wonder what the ratio of coal fired chinese power plants to wally marts is..

[Bolshevik]

their building the world's largest hydrodam

and a lot of the alternative energy studies are done by the Chinese.

[Ham]

We'll see I guess..

I think they have a current energy glut. I haven't even brought India into this discussion.. they are not far behind China as far as pollution and all.

Of course India has always been fairly nasty.. open burning of "biomass" to cook and heat with..

But if the Chinese really are waking up on these issues.. where will the corporations go next for cheap labor and cheap energy? Lessee.. how about Somalia.. oops.. already been there..

maybe Mexico.. oh, already there.. polluting like there's no tomorrow..

maybe Canada?

Naw.. too many darned environmental laws and such..

I know. We can pack them up, and send them to the moon.. that's pretty much "undeveloped"..

[Ham]

Of course they might have to take their own water along.

Or they could forego the water, and minimize the investment,if they agree with the side of the debate that there might be some in the poles..

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/090615-mm-moon-water.html

Then they could go with the sure bet, Mars. There IS water there..

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080620-phoenix-ice-update.html

Don't know how long it will take them to adapt to the thin air, however..

hold your breath fellas..

[Bolshevik]

are you saying alternative energy will undermine cheap labor? No, there will always be hungry mouths everywhere. they'll just stop digging coal and start assembling more batteries. Of course, alternative energy contraptions are still reliant on fossil fuel for raw material.

[Ham]

actually, alternative energy sources might be more expensive to set in place.. but once its there, like the hydro power dams, they generally just sit quietly and produce for decades.. the same can be said for well made solar cells.

but it is a proven fact that capitalism will seek the lowest cost of energy, at practically any environmental cost. They get their energy at approximately half price in China, compared to u.s. costs..

if they could get away with running old fashioned coal burners in the u.s. they'd do it in a heartbeat.

In my opinion anyway..

really.. roll back emission standards and laws.. and penalties.. we'd have a coal burner in every neighborhood..

Lest you cry "weasel words" look at what they burn where they can.. it's "obvious"..

[Bolshevik]

hey, have you seen that channel Planet Green?

[Ham]

No.. I don't think my cable company has it..

[Bolshevik]

no I don't think you or I could afford the packages it comes in. (I used the rabbit ears)

It's a channel all about alternative energy and going green. It's cool. all kinds of neat ideas you can use and concepts they talk about.

I hope to get to the dump, you can make a electricity generating wind mill from a treadmill motor.