When I realized my debt was getting greater than the amount I tithed/ABSed, which I had been doing since I made my first nickel, I didn't exactly feel like I was under any sort of protection.
IT is interesting you brought this up... we continue to "tithe" as it were by sharing our abundance with those who we run into that have need.
I have never forgotten when we gave some money to two just finished up their year WOW's who were really hurting financially and got yelled at for not giving our ABS to HQ..(because how could we possibly know what God wanted done with our ABS.... I can not tell you how much that angered me... I could see their need.. I was not an idiot...
Oh and once we left our lives actually turned around for the better. financially and physically.
God has blessed me over and over and I have tried to share that with those I encounter in my life.
(just writing about it has made me angry again .... At the time i didn't know what I have learned on GSC but it still urked me)
They took something that isn't even Biblically accurate (PFAL) and used it to strong-arm us into giving them protection money.
Can you imagine a grade school kid, who finally moves away from a school with a playground bully, ever worrying he might not have anyone to give his lunch money to at the new school? :wacko:
it might be bizarre, but some are still stuck in that kind of mentality..
some old deposed leadership saved up tithes from meagre wages from working at places like mcdonalds or taco bell.. waiting for a "god approved" place to deposit it..
It's all part of the mindset that many of us fell into: thinking that "The Word" we were being taught was basically correct, but that somehow "the leadership" or "headquarters" or "this one rogue Way Corps guy" was screwing things up.
How many of us left TWI thinking that if Martindale and the other two stooges had just gotten back to "The Word that Doctor taught us" everything would have been fine?
While we were in The Way, one of the concepts that was pitched to us was the supposed importance of tithing and abundant sharing.
It started in PFAL with Christians Should Be Prosperous. There was all the talk about how 9/10ths could go farther than 10/10ths and how our giving was like a form of health and life insurance, etc.. If we didn't do it, we were leaving ourselves susceptible to attacks from the adversary .
So, anyhow, when you left, did you wonder to yourself how and where you would now tithe so you could stay in God's good graces?
Did it ever cross your mind that you might be walking away from God's protection by not tithing?
Think about it.
It's like a woman walking out on an abusive spouse and worrying if the SOB will have a decent dinner tonight.
I know of a LOT of Christian groups that teach the tithe.
As a matter of a fact, MOST if not ALL do, in some fashion or another. Including a lot of groups who have likely not ever even heard of TWI.
Just because TWI abused the teaching for their own ends doesn't mean that the teaching is wrong...
This thread isn't about the accuracy or inaccuracy of "the tithe".
It's about the sudden feeling of vulnerability one experiences when realizing their avenue of "tithing" has been closed.
Yeah, that was a pretty crappy thing to tell people that supporting other ministries, or supporting missions, or even sponsoring corp members was not included in the tithe. You couldn't quantify your time, or include anything like providing cups, plates, coffee, cream, or whatever and have any of that count towards a tithe.
It really is a shame how TWI turned God into such a spiteful, small little god.
When I left, I was afraid something bad might happen because I was no longer "abundantally sharing" to HQ. I gave money to a guy who was starting an offshoot. Shortly following I was in a minor car accident (no injuries). I was sure it was because I didn't give my money to HQ and I felt guilty. Of course, I didn't even consider that it could have had something to do with the fact that my mind was in the clouds at the time and I ran a red light. So, I began sending my money to the "proper place" again and realized that sometimes bad things happened anyway. I still tithe, but now it's just because I want to help my church out. I don't do it to bring good luck or to ward off bad luck.
When I left, I didn't want to give anything to anyone, time, money, cleaning their houses, etc. I was burnt out totally.
And I didn't give for a very long time. And God took excellent care of me. Then, I started seeing something, I started seeing all the things God had done for me...like took me from the pit of emotional, & mental despair and brought me to a place of some peace of mind and even some joy....improved my job situation by 100%, Gave me a beautiful home, healed me of a life threatening disease which the Dr. had told me I had a 20% chance of surviving (I was completely healed of it)...Gratitude overwhelmed me...it was then I realized that the heart of "giving" had been really distorted in my thinking and that the Heart of giving is out of gratitude and thankfulness for what God has done for me not because a group demands it, or doing it out of fear of what will happen if I don't, or doing it because I will get something out of it. That insight changed my attitude and about it. So, I give out of a thankful heart...do I struggle with it still? I do...at times....but if I just take a look at all the things God has done for me, it doesn't take long for me to say....Thank-you with my giving.
Where do I give...at first it was to anyone that I saw had a need...then I got involved with a mission outreach to the poor and low poverty people...that is where I now give to thank God.
So, anyhow, when you left, did you wonder to yourself how and where you would now tithe so you could stay in God's good graces?
Did it ever cross your mind that you might be walking away from God's protection by not tithing?
Not really that much for me, even though it had been drummed into me over and over and then again in the offshoot that I was with briefly after TWI---After awhile it became apparent to me that they were very screwed up organizations, I didnt believe in what they were doing and couldnt support them anymore.
I still gave ( still do) ..I came to the conclusion that I would give my money and time to who I wanted to give it to, someone who I believed in and wanted to support or otherwise felt motivated to give to by my own standards. If that p*ssed off God-well screw him then--I was willing to go down with ship if I had to and it didnt bother me in the least.
It actually was incredibly freeing to put my money where I wanted to put it without bowing to all the spiritual blackmail
It really is pathetic how TWI put their "abundance god" in a box and sold this doctrine.
I struggled with the tithe when I was in TWI mainly because I didn't think it had anything to do with the grace administration. When I was at a ROA and saw row upon row of cars that were rusted, battered, and obviously unsafe, that was when I realized that the only people benefiting from this belief system were the ones on top.
It's one thing to give 10%, but when (on top of that) people are actively discouraged from doing anything that would give them a reasonable lifestyle, it is ridiculous.
We were concerned about it for maybe a month or two but instead of sending the bucks to HQ we sporadically gave to people who were leaving or had left.
One of the many things twi stole from people is the joy of giving...genuine spontanious giving...not some percentage owed to God in the form of a "biblical research and teaching ministry".
HA! Hard to believe we fell for that bunk, and even harder to believe there are folks still forkin' it over to the douchebag hags.
I can't say I was concerned about my tithe. But after 13 years away from TWI, when I became involved with a church I began tithing again. I love to tithe and have never regretted it. But if I feel that God is directing me to give somewhere else other than the church I attend I don't think twice about doing so.
Maybe the Way would offer a "tithe discount" to those who they kicked out. After all, they have a competition with splinter groups and all after someones been kicked out. Maybe you could give 8% and still receive protection . . .
Maybe the Way would offer a "tithe discount" to those who they kicked out. After all, they have a competition with splinter groups and all after someones been kicked out. Maybe you could give 8% and still receive protection . . .
I suppose 8% might warrant a thin spray of spit, but don't expect anyone to hock a loogie for anything less than 20.
I know exactly what you mean! That teaching about tithing sticks with you, for decades after I always "tithed" to the Catholic Church, figuring I knew the Word and just because the Way was a cult didnt mean the tithe doesn't work!
But looking back now I know the Way was a kind a "farm" planting more and more seeds of brainwashing and hoping to reap people tithing to them, so they could drive limos, fly in jets, and live high on the hog and have sex orgies and victimize the gullible, even sometimes driving them to commit suicide
If anyone feels a need to give, why not give insteead human decency! Allow people to worship God in their own way without "marking" them for banishment, and loving people because their them, NOT because thier in good standing with the Ways rules of fellowship ( obey obey obey, lol) Oh and by the way why not help the disabled and weak, instead of condeming them for not believing rightly. Did I forget anything else? Oh! How about not gaining a "rank" like Twig Leader or Branch leader so that you can boss people around and tell them to shut up and obey and never of course express any indivuality or feelings of self worth just because their themselevs, and NOT conditional on their "fellowship" in the Ministry, which I feel is a bad type of bigotry.
This thread isn't about the accuracy or inaccuracy of "the tithe".
It's about the sudden feeling of vulnerability one experiences when realizing their avenue of "tithing" has been closed.
Guess some of us left shedding the belief system which included this "protection of the household of faith," but I imagine it would be unnerving for some. It certainly was a habit ingrained due to the heavy indoctrination over so many years. I remember thinking, though, as I resigned from research (1986) that I would be my own "cause" from then on and invest my money in my education and family. If I could financially help anyone else I met, great. For a variety of reasons, I could not bring myself to give a nickel to anyone saying they taught anything about God.
Recommended Posts
waysider
What about old Vicster and Howard.
How much did they ABS? (without doctoring books to give a false impression.)
None of that crap about how they gave their time and lives, yada, yada, either.
We rank and file peons were never allowed to declare "time given" as part of our tithe or ABS.
What about Craig?
I wonder where he sends his payment that allows God to spit in his direction.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
When I realized my debt was getting greater than the amount I tithed/ABSed, which I had been doing since I made my first nickel, I didn't exactly feel like I was under any sort of protection.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
leafytwiglet
IT is interesting you brought this up... we continue to "tithe" as it were by sharing our abundance with those who we run into that have need.
I have never forgotten when we gave some money to two just finished up their year WOW's who were really hurting financially and got yelled at for not giving our ABS to HQ..(because how could we possibly know what God wanted done with our ABS.... I can not tell you how much that angered me... I could see their need.. I was not an idiot...
Oh and once we left our lives actually turned around for the better. financially and physically.
God has blessed me over and over and I have tried to share that with those I encounter in my life.
(just writing about it has made me angry again .... At the time i didn't know what I have learned on GSC but it still urked me)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
They took something that isn't even Biblically accurate (PFAL) and used it to strong-arm us into giving them protection money.
Can you imagine a grade school kid, who finally moves away from a school with a playground bully, ever worrying he might not have anyone to give his lunch money to at the new school? :wacko:
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
it might be bizarre, but some are still stuck in that kind of mentality..
some old deposed leadership saved up tithes from meagre wages from working at places like mcdonalds or taco bell.. waiting for a "god approved" place to deposit it..
I am thinking specifically of one individual..
naw, he'll never post here..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
It's all part of the mindset that many of us fell into: thinking that "The Word" we were being taught was basically correct, but that somehow "the leadership" or "headquarters" or "this one rogue Way Corps guy" was screwing things up.
How many of us left TWI thinking that if Martindale and the other two stooges had just gotten back to "The Word that Doctor taught us" everything would have been fine?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
markomalley
I know of a LOT of Christian groups that teach the tithe.
As a matter of a fact, MOST if not ALL do, in some fashion or another. Including a lot of groups who have likely not ever even heard of TWI.
Just because TWI abused the teaching for their own ends doesn't mean that the teaching is wrong...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
This thread isn't about the accuracy or inaccuracy of "the tithe".
It's about the sudden feeling of vulnerability one experiences when realizing their avenue of "tithing" has been closed.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
markomalley
Roger.
And thank you for making that clear.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tzaia
Yeah, that was a pretty crappy thing to tell people that supporting other ministries, or supporting missions, or even sponsoring corp members was not included in the tithe. You couldn't quantify your time, or include anything like providing cups, plates, coffee, cream, or whatever and have any of that count towards a tithe.
It really is a shame how TWI turned God into such a spiteful, small little god.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Broken Arrow
When I left, I was afraid something bad might happen because I was no longer "abundantally sharing" to HQ. I gave money to a guy who was starting an offshoot. Shortly following I was in a minor car accident (no injuries). I was sure it was because I didn't give my money to HQ and I felt guilty. Of course, I didn't even consider that it could have had something to do with the fact that my mind was in the clouds at the time and I ran a red light. So, I began sending my money to the "proper place" again and realized that sometimes bad things happened anyway. I still tithe, but now it's just because I want to help my church out. I don't do it to bring good luck or to ward off bad luck.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Yeah, more precisely.....
It really is pathetic how TWI put their "abundance god" in a box and sold this doctrine.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
newlife
When I left, I didn't want to give anything to anyone, time, money, cleaning their houses, etc. I was burnt out totally.
And I didn't give for a very long time. And God took excellent care of me. Then, I started seeing something, I started seeing all the things God had done for me...like took me from the pit of emotional, & mental despair and brought me to a place of some peace of mind and even some joy....improved my job situation by 100%, Gave me a beautiful home, healed me of a life threatening disease which the Dr. had told me I had a 20% chance of surviving (I was completely healed of it)...Gratitude overwhelmed me...it was then I realized that the heart of "giving" had been really distorted in my thinking and that the Heart of giving is out of gratitude and thankfulness for what God has done for me not because a group demands it, or doing it out of fear of what will happen if I don't, or doing it because I will get something out of it. That insight changed my attitude and about it. So, I give out of a thankful heart...do I struggle with it still? I do...at times....but if I just take a look at all the things God has done for me, it doesn't take long for me to say....Thank-you with my giving.
Where do I give...at first it was to anyone that I saw had a need...then I got involved with a mission outreach to the poor and low poverty people...that is where I now give to thank God.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Even one splinter acknowledged that the twi method was to pay "protection money" to a "God-Father".
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
Not really that much for me, even though it had been drummed into me over and over and then again in the offshoot that I was with briefly after TWI---After awhile it became apparent to me that they were very screwed up organizations, I didnt believe in what they were doing and couldnt support them anymore.
I still gave ( still do) ..I came to the conclusion that I would give my money and time to who I wanted to give it to, someone who I believed in and wanted to support or otherwise felt motivated to give to by my own standards. If that p*ssed off God-well screw him then--I was willing to go down with ship if I had to and it didnt bother me in the least.
It actually was incredibly freeing to put my money where I wanted to put it without bowing to all the spiritual blackmail
Edited by mstar1Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
I dunno. If someone has a burning itch to contribute.. why not Greasespot Cafe?
There IS a little "donate" tab on the main page.
We could even invent a little slogan:
"Don't be a greasespot, donate to Greasespot.."
or something like that..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mstar1
If they go down to the politics forum they might occasionally even get spit in their direction
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tzaia
I struggled with the tithe when I was in TWI mainly because I didn't think it had anything to do with the grace administration. When I was at a ROA and saw row upon row of cars that were rusted, battered, and obviously unsafe, that was when I realized that the only people benefiting from this belief system were the ones on top.
It's one thing to give 10%, but when (on top of that) people are actively discouraged from doing anything that would give them a reasonable lifestyle, it is ridiculous.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
tonto
We were concerned about it for maybe a month or two but instead of sending the bucks to HQ we sporadically gave to people who were leaving or had left.
One of the many things twi stole from people is the joy of giving...genuine spontanious giving...not some percentage owed to God in the form of a "biblical research and teaching ministry".
HA! Hard to believe we fell for that bunk, and even harder to believe there are folks still forkin' it over to the douchebag hags.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Keith
I can't say I was concerned about my tithe. But after 13 years away from TWI, when I became involved with a church I began tithing again. I love to tithe and have never regretted it. But if I feel that God is directing me to give somewhere else other than the church I attend I don't think twice about doing so.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bishop
Maybe the Way would offer a "tithe discount" to those who they kicked out. After all, they have a competition with splinter groups and all after someones been kicked out. Maybe you could give 8% and still receive protection . . .
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I suppose 8% might warrant a thin spray of spit, but don't expect anyone to hock a loogie for anything less than 20.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Steveo
I know exactly what you mean! That teaching about tithing sticks with you, for decades after I always "tithed" to the Catholic Church, figuring I knew the Word and just because the Way was a cult didnt mean the tithe doesn't work!
But looking back now I know the Way was a kind a "farm" planting more and more seeds of brainwashing and hoping to reap people tithing to them, so they could drive limos, fly in jets, and live high on the hog and have sex orgies and victimize the gullible, even sometimes driving them to commit suicide
If anyone feels a need to give, why not give insteead human decency! Allow people to worship God in their own way without "marking" them for banishment, and loving people because their them, NOT because thier in good standing with the Ways rules of fellowship ( obey obey obey, lol) Oh and by the way why not help the disabled and weak, instead of condeming them for not believing rightly. Did I forget anything else? Oh! How about not gaining a "rank" like Twig Leader or Branch leader so that you can boss people around and tell them to shut up and obey and never of course express any indivuality or feelings of self worth just because their themselevs, and NOT conditional on their "fellowship" in the Ministry, which I feel is a bad type of bigotry.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
penworks
Guess some of us left shedding the belief system which included this "protection of the household of faith," but I imagine it would be unnerving for some. It certainly was a habit ingrained due to the heavy indoctrination over so many years. I remember thinking, though, as I resigned from research (1986) that I would be my own "cause" from then on and invest my money in my education and family. If I could financially help anyone else I met, great. For a variety of reasons, I could not bring myself to give a nickel to anyone saying they taught anything about God.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.