Analysis shows that there are things beyond the obvious.
Nihilism is a belief system in its own right. To claim that being analytical (based on science) logically leads to nihilism makes about as much sense as saying that all people who eat carrots die so therefore carrots are deadly.
The superstition of The Fake International did, and continues to bo, far more damage than any analytical approach toward life short of embracing a nazi way of thinking...come to think of it...
I'm no expert on nihilism but i'll give this a shot:
Aside from theology all meaning and purpose in the universe is subjective. For example, why is living more meaningful than dying? If the elimination of human suffering is more important than being happy, than the purpose of life might be to die. If one subjectively concludes that becoming happy is more important than ending suffer, then there is purpose in finding happiness in human existence.
"
Imagine that you're playing poker and you happen to get these five cards:
Aâ™ Kâ™ Qâ™ Jâ™ 10â™
You, of course, put on your stoic poker-face and deftly win the whole game. You toss those five cards on the table, rip your shirt in half, make a bunch of primitive, caveman-esque grunting sounds and buy yourself a dozen cars, and maybe a house or two.
If you showed those cards to someone who's never played poker before, instead of to the people you were playing against, and you'd be forced to repeat "really?! you don't get it?" about a dozen times before you walked away, wishing you could find someone who understood how awesome that hand was." -http://logiceatsbabies.blogspot.com/2009/08/my-difficulty-with-nihilism.html
Nietzche held that in the absence of God, there is no true purpose to life. That's nihilism. I think a number of other philosophers have come to the same conclusion, though i don't have time to find them all.
Intuition is not superstition. . . . it's subconscious process whereby people make judgments from the whole of their experience. It's the inner voice that says "this seems right, this is what should fit here."
Different parts of TWI doctrines have different effects on different people. Some doctrines are beneficial to most, some are harmful to most depending on how they are perceived and applied.
Different parts of TWI doctrines have different effects on different people. Some doctrines are beneficial to most, some are harmful to most depending on how they are perceived and applied.
Which ones are beneficial? I am sincere in my question? I am curious as to which ones you believe benefit someone?
Which ones are beneficial? I am sincere in my question? I am curious as to which ones you believe benefit someone?
Which ones are beneficial? I am sincere in my question? I am curious as to which ones you believe benefit someone?
Positive expectations in life help one to succeed. (By this I do NOT mean the law of believing)
Fear can and should be overcome in one's life.
It's okay to be morally imperfect (for example it's ok to lie if it creates a better good).
Christian's don't have to have a negative attitude about sex. (i.e. it's not sin just to THINK about it)
COMMITTED premarital sex isn't the end of the world.
There is no place of eternal torment.
There is a God and he's not mad at you.
Things that I think were mostly bad for people:
I have no friends when it comes to the Word.
It's the Word, the Word, and nothing but the Word.
We know all of the truth, other churches are devilish.
Everything bad in your life is caused by fear.
Devil spirits are everywhere . . . .
Arrogance is a virtue.
I also think that in spite of all this most of the fellowships and twigs have provided some social safety net for the people that go to them. Being part of the way also gave people purpose and distracted them from destructive behavior - as most religion can. It also gave them a sense of belonging. I think many way people just went for that. I don't think that all of the people in the way have or do believe the doctrine that they teach. Just my opinion.
Positive expectations in life help one to succeed. (By this I do NOT mean the law of believing)
Fear can and should be overcome in one's life.
It's okay to be morally imperfect (for example it's ok to lie if it creates a better good).
Christian's don't have to have a negative attitude about sex. (i.e. it's not sin just to THINK about it)
COMMITTED premarital sex isn't the end of the world.
There is no place of eternal torment.
There is a God and he's not mad at you.
These are not really doctrine's are they? At least not in the sense that they are a collective set of codified beliefs or principles held by TWI. With the exception of #6 in an odd form of annihilationism taught by TWI. The law of believing actually would be a doctrine right?
These are more results from held doctrines. . . . but, these things you mention when taken to extreme do become very harmful in a Christian life. Christian's are called to live holy. TWI took them to an extreme. . . . justifying behavior.
Being positive does not replace true saving faith as was very often the case in TWI.
Moral imperfection was often code for "It's all grace. . . " and we know what that became.
Unless one is a Puritan most Christians don't have a negative attitude toward sex. . . . however, premarital sex is not the best according to scripture.
Christian's worship God. . . .that is what we are suppose to do. . . something sorely lacking in TWI and often mocked when expressed by those outside the group. . . . so, most Christian's don't think God is angry with them, but they fear Him in reverence and awe. . . . we are His servants. In TWI we held a different belief about God. . .as if He served us as we served the ministry.
I also think that in spite of all this most of the fellowships and twigs have provided some social safety net for the people that go to them.
for others, it provided a path to lack of developing a career, a path to abuse and worse..
the corps for the most part were considered the "cream of the crop". Where did they come from, off the street? did the vicster advertise in the local paper, "wanted. Young men and women for *christian* training *program*. Three years of work/*study(?)* followed by a lifetime of christian servitude. Taking applications now."?
no. They were people who supposedly had some kind of *natural* leadership ability. Something *special* to *develop*.
I also think that in spite of all this most of the fellowships and twigs have provided some social safety net for the people that go to them. Being part of the way also gave people purpose and distracted them from destructive behavior - as most religion can. It also gave them a sense of belonging. I think many way people just went for that. I don't think that all of the people in the way have or do believe the doctrine that they teach. Just my opinion.
I would agree with this to a point. But it depends on when you were in and for how long. During the height of LCM's reign, TWI was directed to limit their witnessing strictly to the "middle class." When I asked what a middle class person looked like so I could pick them out at the mall, I got the usual "oh no, not his questions again" frown. During that time, you were expected to avoid those who might actually take less than they gave. And this was reinforced frequently but with nicer words.
BUT.... at many other times I saw folks invited to twig who seemed happy to be anywhere with people. Free cookies were a bonus. :) Some lacked social skills, others were just down-and-out types. I guess if you limit "some social net" to mean a place to belong, I guess I could agree. TWI wanted money and those folks were happy to pay a class fee to get into a group.
The video shows exactly the same type of performances that were put on under lcm's leadership. the people who go on stage are drilled to perform like that. the clothes and dance moves haven't changed, the lyrics are reruns, and the facial expressions are a requirement per twi doctrine.
Bishop,
You say those people "look" happy. Have you ever had the chance to talk to them? I have. I used to practice with them and perform with them. Yes, many of those VERY people, and on that VERY stage.
They smile for two reasons: they are drilled to do so, and performing is one of the few things they get to do with their time and lives that they are good at and genuinely enjoy on a personal level. Most of them work jobs on campus they would never have chosen for themselves, and have very little say-so in their own lives.
But to say any of this was brought about by Rosalie Rivenbark is a joke. They have been doing this same stuff for decades now. Nothing of any substance changed when Martindale left and she took over. Nothing.
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Ham
*they* say *she(?)* had children.. but sorry, I haven't met or seen them so as to evaluate the statement. 1. Do they remotely even resemble *her(?)*..? 2. Is there anyone who can attest to the fa
Ham
just wonder.. what in God's name has *she* (well.. if she really is a she..) done to address the *issues* of those her predecessor psychologically damaged, and cast out as "compromised" "possessed" or
Ham
I'm sorry.. but I'm not.. what really is the difference between a "positive" cult.. and a negative, languishing one.. only one answer comes to my feeble mind.. a *Charismatic* "leader(?)".. if *
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Bishop
I'm no expert on nihilism but i'll give this a shot:
Aside from theology all meaning and purpose in the universe is subjective. For example, why is living more meaningful than dying? If the elimination of human suffering is more important than being happy, than the purpose of life might be to die. If one subjectively concludes that becoming happy is more important than ending suffer, then there is purpose in finding happiness in human existence.
"
Imagine that you're playing poker and you happen to get these five cards:
Aâ™ Kâ™ Qâ™ Jâ™ 10â™
You, of course, put on your stoic poker-face and deftly win the whole game. You toss those five cards on the table, rip your shirt in half, make a bunch of primitive, caveman-esque grunting sounds and buy yourself a dozen cars, and maybe a house or two.
If you showed those cards to someone who's never played poker before, instead of to the people you were playing against, and you'd be forced to repeat "really?! you don't get it?" about a dozen times before you walked away, wishing you could find someone who understood how awesome that hand was." -http://logiceatsbabies.blogspot.com/2009/08/my-difficulty-with-nihilism.html
Nietzche held that in the absence of God, there is no true purpose to life. That's nihilism. I think a number of other philosophers have come to the same conclusion, though i don't have time to find them all.
Intuition is not superstition. . . . it's subconscious process whereby people make judgments from the whole of their experience. It's the inner voice that says "this seems right, this is what should fit here."
Different parts of TWI doctrines have different effects on different people. Some doctrines are beneficial to most, some are harmful to most depending on how they are perceived and applied.
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Bolshevik
Some like cards . . . others prefer dice.
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Ham
probably because of the nasal southern monotone drawl that just forces them to sleep providing she even gives long speeches anymore..
*removes scowl from face, replaces with limp smile*
*drooling at microphone*
*aheeeem.. gawwwwwwwwd bless your lil ol hawts in da name of da lawwwwwd.. your rememmmmber how dock ta viener ville tawwwt us.."
I dunno. Perhaps she is a fungus on the body of christ's.. whatever. I'm being kind and measured with my words here..
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geisha779
Which ones are beneficial? I am sincere in my question? I am curious as to which ones you believe benefit someone?
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Bishop
Positive expectations in life help one to succeed. (By this I do NOT mean the law of believing)
Fear can and should be overcome in one's life.
It's okay to be morally imperfect (for example it's ok to lie if it creates a better good).
Christian's don't have to have a negative attitude about sex. (i.e. it's not sin just to THINK about it)
COMMITTED premarital sex isn't the end of the world.
There is no place of eternal torment.
There is a God and he's not mad at you.
Things that I think were mostly bad for people:
I have no friends when it comes to the Word.
It's the Word, the Word, and nothing but the Word.
We know all of the truth, other churches are devilish.
Everything bad in your life is caused by fear.
Devil spirits are everywhere . . . .
Arrogance is a virtue.
I also think that in spite of all this most of the fellowships and twigs have provided some social safety net for the people that go to them. Being part of the way also gave people purpose and distracted them from destructive behavior - as most religion can. It also gave them a sense of belonging. I think many way people just went for that. I don't think that all of the people in the way have or do believe the doctrine that they teach. Just my opinion.
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geisha779
These are not really doctrine's are they? At least not in the sense that they are a collective set of codified beliefs or principles held by TWI. With the exception of #6 in an odd form of annihilationism taught by TWI. The law of believing actually would be a doctrine right?
These are more results from held doctrines. . . . but, these things you mention when taken to extreme do become very harmful in a Christian life. Christian's are called to live holy. TWI took them to an extreme. . . . justifying behavior.
Being positive does not replace true saving faith as was very often the case in TWI.
Moral imperfection was often code for "It's all grace. . . " and we know what that became.
Unless one is a Puritan most Christians don't have a negative attitude toward sex. . . . however, premarital sex is not the best according to scripture.
Christian's worship God. . . .that is what we are suppose to do. . . something sorely lacking in TWI and often mocked when expressed by those outside the group. . . . so, most Christian's don't think God is angry with them, but they fear Him in reverence and awe. . . . we are His servants. In TWI we held a different belief about God. . .as if He served us as we served the ministry.
My take anyway. :)
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Ham
for others, it provided a path to lack of developing a career, a path to abuse and worse..
the corps for the most part were considered the "cream of the crop". Where did they come from, off the street? did the vicster advertise in the local paper, "wanted. Young men and women for *christian* training *program*. Three years of work/*study(?)* followed by a lifetime of christian servitude. Taking applications now."?
no. They were people who supposedly had some kind of *natural* leadership ability. Something *special* to *develop*.
They "grew up" in twig.
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JustThinking
I would agree with this to a point. But it depends on when you were in and for how long. During the height of LCM's reign, TWI was directed to limit their witnessing strictly to the "middle class." When I asked what a middle class person looked like so I could pick them out at the mall, I got the usual "oh no, not his questions again" frown. During that time, you were expected to avoid those who might actually take less than they gave. And this was reinforced frequently but with nicer words.
BUT.... at many other times I saw folks invited to twig who seemed happy to be anywhere with people. Free cookies were a bonus. :) Some lacked social skills, others were just down-and-out types. I guess if you limit "some social net" to mean a place to belong, I guess I could agree. TWI wanted money and those folks were happy to pay a class fee to get into a group.
JT
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Bishop
Craig was hilarious . . . homo purge . . . that sounds like a sex act . . har har.
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chockfull
Yeah, really. It makes you wonder, was that the followup to his homo binge?
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TheHighWay
Bishop,
You say those people "look" happy. Have you ever had the chance to talk to them? I have. I used to practice with them and perform with them. Yes, many of those VERY people, and on that VERY stage.
They smile for two reasons: they are drilled to do so, and performing is one of the few things they get to do with their time and lives that they are good at and genuinely enjoy on a personal level. Most of them work jobs on campus they would never have chosen for themselves, and have very little say-so in their own lives.
But to say any of this was brought about by Rosalie Rivenbark is a joke. They have been doing this same stuff for decades now. Nothing of any substance changed when Martindale left and she took over. Nothing.
THW
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