I tend to see John as just a man, like any other and maybe that's why I'll never really get it.
I know (and like) JAL, too. He really doesn't see himself as a man like any other. Therein lies the problem.
He's now not happy that he gave up the presidency and the board seat - seemingly oblivious as to why it even got to that place. It makes me wonder if he has come to the conclusion that he was held to a different standard, and if that's the case, then there might be some behavior going on that he was punished for, but is going on with others.
I've been thinking about this for awhile.....I know John so maybe that makes it move intriguing for me, I'm not sure. He and I have discussed this stuff in his life and we don't agree, but that's ok and that's not even the point.
I see so many tired of his story and even more so his telling of it and I get that too.
I think it's cuz he's "John Lynn" the former TWI celebrity figure, author, etc., et al., yes? We certainly wouldn't be hearing of Mr and Mrs Joe Smoe in such volume, nor would we care to, likely. By being who he is, perhaps he's held to more public critique and scrutiny and discussion.
I also understand his tenacity (?) to continue to beat what seems so obviously a dead animal; I do that when something isn't done for me, or isn't settled where I need it to be and it's freakin annoying to those that care about me, I know this.
So what is the answer? I'd offer what has been said here in the realms of "for cryin out loud, get over it, move on, yer killin' us here, John" but that might not work for John.
We have those that were in TWI leadership roles that we remain interested in, remain in longing for news on and remain fascinated by the discussion of. I'm not sure why John is one, except that he moved from one leadership capacity into another one and maybe the lessons have repeated; I'd vote yes on that one.
I'm more than ready to let John and his family live their lives and leave them the heck alone, sure. I'd love to yak with him on the phone about my own stuff, or visit with him about the simple things of this life like grandchildren and funny stuff.
I wonder if so long as a man is held under certain standards if he doesn't feel like he then HAS to rise to them and HAS to give answers. If we engage, he'll engage. The celebrity who feel obligated to his fans to show up and sign autograph's and give interviews kinda thing.
I tend to see John as just a man, like any other and maybe that's why I'll never really get it.
I could not disagree more, this is what they do and come hell 0or high water this is what they will do.
It isnt my problem they have a need and seek seekers and plenty were I came from.
the problem is money shellon
twi supporters give the green stuff.
Other people just getting involved will investigate and find errors and question them, twi fall outs or thrown outs if you will, are used to being told the ministry they are involved in is a piece of crap and dare I say often proud of the fact!
this is a cult and cults generate a certain level of co-dependency personality that is rabid and I mean rabid in our culture.
If all the ex twi folks stopped supporting this nonsense John L would still claim to love and seek them and they love and seek him it is co-dependence type of relationship.
You know what co-depency is? It is not an evil personality trait it is just what it is. extremely common in all walks of life.
I see john as a man as well, everyone does, he is a nice guy, It isnt like twi were one can rise to the top (with the top pay and perks in twi) by knowing somone , Sue is JS sister! this is very different than twi in that regards.
this is also about old men clinging to what they think they need to do in life fully aware they have zero skills to do anything eles.
this is about people thinking if they stay in this ministry God will help them out in life and frankly no clue of where eles to go .
Being told your entire life that God lives within ONLY this ministry best is hard to walk away from. Personaly I like the work STF does... I do not give them alot of money I pay for the magazine , as far as the people go well now I guess I am not "called" as a leader for this group of co-depenents lol .
they do work and it is sound at times and like John says throw out the bones if it doesnt work for you.
but and this is it the economic times have dictated to many to pull the purse strings in and this is the result all over the place.
If they had bundles of money flowing in John L. would be on paid staff .. I believe that. they are fighting over money. dress it up dress it down and pull out the claws it is money .
I gave up and told God do as you see fit Im just trying to survive .
I made life simple and just decided to love others as I would like to be loved.
I got people in my life I stand in awe of .... I am just amazed at the body of Christ every single day it blows my mind and makes me seek Jesus as Lord more and more.
Being a christian is a PEOPLE thing.
I do believe these guys, have no practical knowledge of what Paul talks about in the reality of the thorn of the flesh.
People keep People real, how? by loving one another, and hating one another . both emotions work together for the good of Gods will to be done.
God is love.
People are Sinners.
What we do as humanity is fight it out for our own salvation.
the drama is fun if you remember we can not compete for the throne of KING of Kings.
The sin of adam and eve is and always will be the problem, we can not be God.
he (God) is a very jealous serious powerful Spirit who can create beings in his image .
So we make these little organizations and worlds and instiutions and whatever we can to be God of.
I think of what I like to call the "LCM Syndrome" in these situations. A person, be it man or woman, may get a little bit of the attention and celebrity and so long as they accept it and go for it and those doing the giving continue to do their job, it's going to continue.
I'm sure John would agree that he's trying to do what he has to do to survive, as well, like you and me and all others. His happens to be public and so long as it's fed, it will be so.
Again, our dynamics are all unique and we all accept and give things in our own manner.
Why can't he be happy to enjoy his golden years while living off his trust fund. Doesn't seem such a bad idea to me. If he really wanted to do something really great, he could GIVE some of it to help an at risk kid or maybe volunteer at a soup kitchen.
think of what I like to call the "LCM Syndrome" in these situations. A person, be it man or woman, may get a little bit of the attention and celebrity and so long as they accept it and go for it and those doing the giving continue to do their job, it's going to continue.
I know (and like) JAL, too. He really doesn't see himself as a man like any other. Therein lies the problem.
Exactly. Thats the whole fallacy that they carried over from TWI and why it had to cave in. i.e.--SomeONE has to be THE Mog in their bizarre interpretation of Christianity
The letters are laced with how outstanding his "ministry" is, how it is unique and like no other, how many lives HE has touched etc etc..blah blah blah until I want to puke.
Its an adventure in extreme egotism.
If Lynn has any 'gift' at all--Its the gift of gab ( also known as not knowing when to shut up) plus he thinks he is funny (no), insightful (not)-so this somehow makes him extraordinary and irreplaceable in the eyes of God.
He needs to come down off his high and mighty throne and deal with life like the rest of us and realize that he is not as extraordinary as he pretends to be but pretty regular just a helluva lot noisier.
Its hard to believe after 40 years he is still playing this game
If he needs a new job He would make an excellent ShamWow pitchman
I know (and like) JAL, too. He really doesn't see himself as a man like any other. Therein lies the problem.
He's now not happy that he gave up the presidency and the board seat - seemingly oblivious as to why it even got to that place. It makes me wonder if he has come to the conclusion that he was held to a different standard, and if that's the case, then there might be some behavior going on that he was punished for, but is going on with others.
In twi leadership could sin openly and get away with it if they held the right people around them.
It was all grace and then some for the chosen twi people . Many more where that tattle tale came from, and John is a tattle tale he gave information about others to use against them when situations got heated.
He was covered no problem. it is how things are done he is speaking for God , ministering for people ... In a much smaller outfit like STF you cant let it be as obvious peole who give the money are in smaller supply and by virtue of spending account must be dealt with.
So you have to go deeper underground and keep the sin more quiet. to please the people that your ok .
this is NOT one of JAL strong qualities!!! he struggles with the whole concept he wants to tattle so his own sins feel less bad to him.
You know make a fellowship of heart to heart sharing. just what he said.
But they do not have the numbers twi did for him to play the game and get information to use against people and force them to stay from the shame he inflicts. well the other guy in the group will do the damage not him but he is playing his role....the other guy is also sold out. or easy to be dismissed if they have to .
in other words the system has broken down and isnt working.
he freaking just does not know what to do now!! that has been and always be his role .
John S and Dan will pull in the circle now and I bet they do not even speak toeach other much in fact I know they do not.
it is dangerous what if the people find out your not as good as you say?
oh my they may have to find the Lord Jesus Christ as a SPIRIT not a flesh and blood man.
Pond, it's a little insulting when you say "it's simple to understand" if for some it's not; some struggle with this stuff, still and I think we have to consider it, whether or not we agree.
Which, as I understand it, is the point of this entire forum.
While your points are just as valid as mine or anyones, back and forth communication is crucial for both or all to come to end of understanding for them, personally.
I don't know, but, I probably do get some small measure of perverse pleasure in this. . . sounds awful, but it is what it is. . . I see John Lynn as someone who has been on a frantic spiritual quest for years. . . . and has taken others along on his ride. Ever learning, but never coming to a knowledge of the truth. When I think of the countless lives he has insinuated himself into by assumed position of teacher. I get angry. People need to be delivered FROM JAL STIF and TWI mind set. . . . and he is like the energizer bunny. . . . he just keeps going and going and going.
Look at the wake of destruction left in his path from his very odd ministry. And as good as a salesman as he is. . . . he is a lousy consumer. . . . easily duped. . . .momentus, personal prophecy, a God who is ineffectual and mistaken, a Jesus unrecognizable to most. Really, he falls for whatever and let's it rule his life. That is bad enough, but then passes it on to others as gospel. It is criminal.
He wielded that microphone at Emporia like a weapon and a means of spewing self-aggrandizing propaganda. It seems not too much has changed with these epistles. . . .
Am I bitter? Probably a bit. . . Yeah
But, there is a middle ground. . . . you don't have to sell your soul to VP or TWI or some offshoot to fellowship. It is possible with the unwashed masses of Christianity. I say run. . . branch out. . . . reach out. Get away from these guys. My take anyway. It is the only thing that will stop them.
I don't rejoice in their iniquity . . . I just want them to knock it off.
Thanks to the people who answered my JB question via PM.
Lynn seems like a nutcase to me...Didn't he recently say that VP Wierwille would be proud of him? I think the guy should check himself into a fruit farm. Talk about way brain...this guy is the ultimate example.
At least Martindale quit while he was behind and grabbed a Home Depot apron...this guy needs a butterfly net.
"P.s. I think your criticism of my teaching was pretty silly, and you missed the entire point of my teaching. I may have confessed I was not a "teacher" but that doesn't mean I don't have an Ephesians ministry"
Its hard to believe after 40 years he is still playing this game.
Indeed. But how many here would be surprised to see him in an exact, carbon-copy situation in another ten year, and again ten years after that. This is just something that he does, isn't it?
I don't see someone who's so wedded to roll-playing and fantasy as ever coming to grips with reality.
Like anyone, he COULD do lotsa worthwhile stuff with whatever time he has left on this earth - as Oeno mentioned, if that was what he really wanted to do. But I suspect he's just too much of an attention-whore to do much of anything that doesn't make him a star. That's the way he always struck me, anyway. But I'm not at all close to the guy, and never have been, just seen his act from a distance. I MAY be horribly misjudging him. I doubt it, but that is a possibility.
Being a worthless unbelieving heathen, I find it remarkable that any man can make a living peddling a few bible verses and a shop-worn, ersatz new-age theology, but the T.V.'s full of 'em. They must have some appeal that I know not of anymore...
The word "Christ" or "Christian" appears eight times in that letter, including one reference to the title of a class and another spelling out the name of CES.
In contrast, the word "me" is there 32 times. "My" or "myself" appears 52 times. And the word "I" appears 130 times.
The Score so far, (According to John Lynn)
That's 214 references to John Lynn, 8 to his Lord.
The word "Christ" or "Christian" appears eight times in that letter, including one reference to the title of a class and another spelling out the name of CES.
In contrast, the word "me" is there 32 times. "My" or "myself" appears 52 times. And the word "I" appears 130 times.
The Score so far, (According to John Lynn)
That's 214 references to John Lynn, 8 to his Lord.
And he wants to start Another ministry!!!
The "I's" have it. . . . John Lynn and his "Traveling Church of the Great Me, My, Mine, Myself, I AM!"
I have a personal relationship with most STF supporters, and if that is you, I know you are concerned aboutmy life and ministry. Please consider who I have been and who I am to you, how I have related to you, and the impact of my life upon yours in however many years we have known one another, as well as how my ministry has touched your life.
...he is God on earth.
....Im not much of a biblethumper, in fact Im not one at all
Like anyone, he COULD do lotsa worthwhile stuff with whatever time he has left on this earth ...
Dunno, George. Seems to me he is doing something worthwhile...giving us all a chuckle (if not more) at the sheer stupidity of this wheel going round and round and round and round....
A merry heart doth good like a medicine.
See, JAL is good for your heart.
That's if your frustration level doesn't give you a head injury first, because of banging your head against the wall.
The word "Christ" or "Christian" appears eight times in that letter, including one reference to the title of a class and another spelling out the name of CES.
In contrast, the word "me" is there 32 times. "My" or "myself" appears 52 times. And the word "I" appears 130 times.
The Score so far, (According to John Lynn)
That's 214 references to John Lynn, 8 to his Lord.
The word "Christ" or "Christian" appears eight times in that letter, including one reference to the title of a class and another spelling out the name of CES.
In contrast, the word "me" is there 32 times. "My" or "myself" appears 52 times. And the word "I" appears 130 times.
The Score so far, (According to John Lynn)
That's 214 references to John Lynn, 8 to his Lord.
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Sunesis
OMG - just years of drama. Does it ever stop? I just can't imagine living my life like that, letters, who was right, who was wrong, betrayal, intrigue. You know what JAL and others? No one cares a
Shellon
I've been thinking about this for awhile.....I know John so maybe that makes it move intriguing for me, I'm not sure. He and I have discussed this stuff in his life and we don't agree, but that's ok a
Rejoice
Tzaia has had first hand dealings with all the STF guys including Jeff B---and can elaborate on his background.
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Tzaia
I know (and like) JAL, too. He really doesn't see himself as a man like any other. Therein lies the problem.
He's now not happy that he gave up the presidency and the board seat - seemingly oblivious as to why it even got to that place. It makes me wonder if he has come to the conclusion that he was held to a different standard, and if that's the case, then there might be some behavior going on that he was punished for, but is going on with others.
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pond
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Shellon
Pond, of course ! I know what co-dependancy is.
I welcome you to 'not disagree with me more', but remind you that I get how this stuff works.
Of course I do, as we've discussed many times over the years.........
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T-Bone
I think I remember the title of that episode: "How to keep the Klingons off Uranus"
[edited for television
]
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pond
God has blessed me tho,
I gave up and told God do as you see fit Im just trying to survive .
I made life simple and just decided to love others as I would like to be loved.
I got people in my life I stand in awe of .... I am just amazed at the body of Christ every single day it blows my mind and makes me seek Jesus as Lord more and more.
Being a christian is a PEOPLE thing.
I do believe these guys, have no practical knowledge of what Paul talks about in the reality of the thorn of the flesh.
People keep People real, how? by loving one another, and hating one another . both emotions work together for the good of Gods will to be done.
God is love.
People are Sinners.
What we do as humanity is fight it out for our own salvation.
the drama is fun if you remember we can not compete for the throne of KING of Kings.
The sin of adam and eve is and always will be the problem, we can not be God.
he (God) is a very jealous serious powerful Spirit who can create beings in his image .
So we make these little organizations and worlds and instiutions and whatever we can to be God of.
All idols will be destroyed.
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Shellon
I think of what I like to call the "LCM Syndrome" in these situations. A person, be it man or woman, may get a little bit of the attention and celebrity and so long as they accept it and go for it and those doing the giving continue to do their job, it's going to continue.
I'm sure John would agree that he's trying to do what he has to do to survive, as well, like you and me and all others. His happens to be public and so long as it's fed, it will be so.
Again, our dynamics are all unique and we all accept and give things in our own manner.
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oenophile
Me. Me. Me. Love me. Support me. Worship me.
Why can't he be happy to enjoy his golden years while living off his trust fund. Doesn't seem such a bad idea to me. If he really wanted to do something really great, he could GIVE some of it to help an at risk kid or maybe volunteer at a soup kitchen.
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mstar1
Exactly. Thats the whole fallacy that they carried over from TWI and why it had to cave in. i.e.--SomeONE has to be THE Mog in their bizarre interpretation of Christianity
The letters are laced with how outstanding his "ministry" is, how it is unique and like no other, how many lives HE has touched etc etc..blah blah blah until I want to puke.
Its an adventure in extreme egotism.
If Lynn has any 'gift' at all--Its the gift of gab ( also known as not knowing when to shut up) plus he thinks he is funny (no), insightful (not)-so this somehow makes him extraordinary and irreplaceable in the eyes of God.
He needs to come down off his high and mighty throne and deal with life like the rest of us and realize that he is not as extraordinary as he pretends to be but pretty regular just a helluva lot noisier.
Its hard to believe after 40 years he is still playing this game
If he needs a new job He would make an excellent ShamWow pitchman
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pond
In twi leadership could sin openly and get away with it if they held the right people around them.
It was all grace and then some for the chosen twi people . Many more where that tattle tale came from, and John is a tattle tale he gave information about others to use against them when situations got heated.
He was covered no problem. it is how things are done he is speaking for God , ministering for people ... In a much smaller outfit like STF you cant let it be as obvious peole who give the money are in smaller supply and by virtue of spending account must be dealt with.
So you have to go deeper underground and keep the sin more quiet. to please the people that your ok .
this is NOT one of JAL strong qualities!!! he struggles with the whole concept he wants to tattle so his own sins feel less bad to him.
You know make a fellowship of heart to heart sharing. just what he said.
But they do not have the numbers twi did for him to play the game and get information to use against people and force them to stay from the shame he inflicts. well the other guy in the group will do the damage not him but he is playing his role....the other guy is also sold out. or easy to be dismissed if they have to .
in other words the system has broken down and isnt working.
he freaking just does not know what to do now!! that has been and always be his role .
John S and Dan will pull in the circle now and I bet they do not even speak toeach other much in fact I know they do not.
it is dangerous what if the people find out your not as good as you say?
oh my they may have to find the Lord Jesus Christ as a SPIRIT not a flesh and blood man.
But spirit doesnt need money a man does.
it is simple to understand .
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Shellon
Pond, it's a little insulting when you say "it's simple to understand" if for some it's not; some struggle with this stuff, still and I think we have to consider it, whether or not we agree.
Which, as I understand it, is the point of this entire forum.
While your points are just as valid as mine or anyones, back and forth communication is crucial for both or all to come to end of understanding for them, personally.
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geisha779
I don't know, but, I probably do get some small measure of perverse pleasure in this. . . sounds awful, but it is what it is. . . I see John Lynn as someone who has been on a frantic spiritual quest for years. . . . and has taken others along on his ride. Ever learning, but never coming to a knowledge of the truth. When I think of the countless lives he has insinuated himself into by assumed position of teacher. I get angry. People need to be delivered FROM JAL STIF and TWI mind set. . . . and he is like the energizer bunny. . . . he just keeps going and going and going.
Look at the wake of destruction left in his path from his very odd ministry. And as good as a salesman as he is. . . . he is a lousy consumer. . . . easily duped. . . .momentus, personal prophecy, a God who is ineffectual and mistaken, a Jesus unrecognizable to most. Really, he falls for whatever and let's it rule his life. That is bad enough, but then passes it on to others as gospel. It is criminal.
He wielded that microphone at Emporia like a weapon and a means of spewing self-aggrandizing propaganda. It seems not too much has changed with these epistles. . . .
Am I bitter? Probably a bit. . . Yeah
But, there is a middle ground. . . . you don't have to sell your soul to VP or TWI or some offshoot to fellowship. It is possible with the unwashed masses of Christianity. I say run. . . branch out. . . . reach out. Get away from these guys. My take anyway. It is the only thing that will stop them.
I don't rejoice in their iniquity . . . I just want them to knock it off.
Thanks to the people who answered my JB question via PM.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Lynn seems like a nutcase to me...Didn't he recently say that VP Wierwille would be proud of him? I think the guy should check himself into a fruit farm. Talk about way brain...this guy is the ultimate example.
At least Martindale quit while he was behind and grabbed a Home Depot apron...this guy needs a butterfly net.
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waysider
This is from the "Timeline Letter".
"P.s. I think your criticism of my teaching was pretty silly, and you missed the entire point of my teaching. I may have confessed I was not a "teacher" but that doesn't mean I don't have an Ephesians ministry"
An Ephesians Ministry?????
How much weirder can this stuff get?
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George Aar
Indeed. But how many here would be surprised to see him in an exact, carbon-copy situation in another ten year, and again ten years after that. This is just something that he does, isn't it?
I don't see someone who's so wedded to roll-playing and fantasy as ever coming to grips with reality.
Like anyone, he COULD do lotsa worthwhile stuff with whatever time he has left on this earth - as Oeno mentioned, if that was what he really wanted to do. But I suspect he's just too much of an attention-whore to do much of anything that doesn't make him a star. That's the way he always struck me, anyway. But I'm not at all close to the guy, and never have been, just seen his act from a distance. I MAY be horribly misjudging him. I doubt it, but that is a possibility.
Being a worthless unbelieving heathen, I find it remarkable that any man can make a living peddling a few bible verses and a shop-worn, ersatz new-age theology, but the T.V.'s full of 'em. They must have some appeal that I know not of anymore...
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pawtucket
So, What's the Score?
The word "Christ" or "Christian" appears eight times in that letter, including one reference to the title of a class and another spelling out the name of CES.
In contrast, the word "me" is there 32 times. "My" or "myself" appears 52 times. And the word "I" appears 130 times.
The Score so far, (According to John Lynn)
That's 214 references to John Lynn, 8 to his Lord.
And he wants to start Another ministry!!!
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geisha779
The "I's" have it. . . . John Lynn and his "Traveling Church of the Great Me, My, Mine, Myself, I AM!"
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mstar1
Thats pretty much the only way to go...
...he is God on earth.
....Im not much of a biblethumper, in fact Im not one at all
but I just cant resist the obvious
.....Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes
and clever in their own sight....
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Twinky
Dunno, George. Seems to me he is doing something worthwhile...giving us all a chuckle (if not more) at the sheer stupidity of this wheel going round and round and round and round....
A merry heart doth good like a medicine.
See, JAL is good for your heart.
That's if your frustration level doesn't give you a head injury first, because of banging your head against the wall.
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skyrider
Mirror, mirror on the wall
Who's the greatest one of all?
Could it be Me? Myself? and I?
John smiles as he "hears" it reply.
<_<
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Rejoice
That's bad...
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