Interesting subject, Shell! My first thoughts after reading your post were that once upon a time in a cult far away I thought I had a lot of friends. In one fell swoop, when I was falsely accused of being homosexual, I found out I had ZERO friends in that cult (I didn't think of it as a cult quite yet even when I tried to call a few of those I had considered my friends and heard them say the words out loud to me that they could not speak to me lest they too become marked and avoided...) and that was quite a blow to my heart. I found that I had a handful of "never-been way" friends that still loved me and offered to help me out when the cult threw us out.
It's about 15 years later now and I'd say I've made about 10 of what I today would call friends. Yes, these are people that I would feel free to call up and say I'd like to come visit with you for a day or so, do you have room to put me and mine up or can you recommend a clean hotel nearby (preferably with a pool)? I have invested emotion, time, heart - and mostly I feel I get back as good as I give.
Or, I'm in trouble in some way or don't know what to do - and can trust them to advise me in my best interest on any given topic.
Every once in a while I'm disappointed to find that what I considered a pretty good friendship really was only a one-sided deal with me giving 95% and more. Or they say they want a 100% truthful relationship with me and when I tell them the stuff that's hard to say, but 100% true they cease contacting me or set up rules as to when they want input and when they don't - and the rules change as their moods do. It never ceases to amaze me how humans will treat each other.
Hmmm, I just did the math and added up the people I consider friends and I'm surprised to see that I might have 5 true blue serious friends. Maybe 3.
The best or most useful answer that I can recall got me thinking.
In TWI were were taught to treat strangers as friends and family.
And furthermore how painful it was when these so-called friends aggreed to mark and avoid you.
Turns out what is a real friend is one of the best considerations but but also the most difficult that I have fielded here at GSC.
And it turns out that a lot of my old friends still associated with River Road Fellowship are no better than the mind numbed Wayfer that followed leadership's directives to mark and avoid.
Friends? I was taught that I was to have no friends when it came to the word and guess what....thats true! I can honestly say that in my life I really have no friends. (tears)
Sure I have my kids whom I'm a friend to. I still have my Lord Jesus Christ and oddly enough if you have read my story at all you may find this odd but I have my mom. But other then that I have no real honest to goodness friends here on earth.
Jeepers, I thought I was the only one with no real friends. Sorry to see that I am wrong.
When I first got M&A'd, when I could pick up a Bible again I did some reading in the gospels about what a friend is. It was so miserable and depressing that my efforts didn't last long.
Might get different results if I tried the same thing now.
There are so many levels of friendship. But the number of folks in one's innermost circle is very small.
Actually I have a pretty good support group/ network of friends, who do care and share. And who would help in any way they could. But real intimates? Very few.
There are so many levels of friendship. But the number of folks in one's innermost circle is very small.
Actually I have a pretty good support group/ network of friends, who do care and share. And who would help in any way they could. But real intimates? Very few.
I have a tendency to agree along these lines. I have a fair amount what I would consider 'friends'. Some are acquaintances, some are people that I know and speak to regularly, others are a little closer, a very few are really close.
None of them is the perfect friend but collectively they cover the bases for just about everything that I want or need out of other people on multiple levels
I know that I can count on this person for this, or that person for that. I know who are the ones who will give me the straight talk , who will help me move the piano, who will talk something through with me, who will give me good business advice or personal help, who would crawl under my car in midwinter to fix something, who will just make me smile after along day or who will make me laugh endlessly at nothing in particular.
None are perfect but are all good folks--with their own strengths and weaknesses who do what they can. Collectively they are a good bunch for me and cover pretty much everything. I am probably somewhere in that same category for many of them.
The closer ones are a little harder to come by. It has taken me a lot of time and trust to cultivate those..
Im really not all that good at it as I have a tendency to keep a 'safe distance' before I really let anyone 'in' (once bitten, twice shy) but thankfully have a few.
I think one of the more unsettling realizations one gains after a little experience is that the fairytale notions of "friends forever" or "true love" or any such concept of human interaction where some sort of permanence is invoked are probably not very close to reality.
Yes, I'm sure there's friendships that have endured a lot, but to think that they'll stay that way through anything is likely misguided. People are fallible, often weak, and break easily for the most part. And yes, I include myself in that mix.
Relationships that endure over decades I think are as much due to chance as anything else. Maybe they just never got a severe enough test to show what they're made of? I'm reminded of the family and friends that were lost at sea after the sinking of their sailboat. Several people stuck on a small boat with little to no supplies for weeks. They survived, but the husband and wife soon after divorced and none of the other folks - siblings and close friends - even see each other anymore. They'd gotten a little too much of a dose of each other's frailties and don't care to be reminded of it anymore, is my guess.
Ultimately, I think one has to learn to live with oneself. That's the only one you're sure will never leave you...
Yup, George, be a friend to be a friend, all that stuff that really does work.
Sometimes and I agree, if one can live with ones own self, life is a little more comfy.
Relationships take work, time, thought, understanding, listening, both giving, both considering the other, both nurturing the friendship/relationship, etc.
But yes, I agree, if s/he doesn't take care of their own self, I'd gventure they won't have a lot to bring to any type of relationship.
The way I would define friendship, I'm not sure others would. I am a "people person", so I have lots of "friends". In my vending business, I have people I really like, and we chat a lot while i am there. I call them Friends.
But I've never been to their homes, nor they to mine. If they were sick and needed me, I'd be there.
I have friends that I've been friends with for 8 years. I'd say we are close. But I've discovered they can't handle weakness--they tend to get occupied and unable to be together in person--although they pray for us and call to see how we're doing. I've learned that about them, and still call them my friends.
And the friendship is strong during the "good" times. We share a lot of secrets with one another-- and I trust them.
I'd say my closest friend is my sister Lois. Yes, I'd hold her hair while she's puking--in fact I cleaned up where she missed--she's my sister! She's the one I call the most often on my long distance. I'd do just about anything for her, and she for me. (Anything in our power and what our hubbys allow). We share the deepest secrets, the silliest giggles--and yet she's a 12 hour drive away! She's a scatterbrained airhead-- oh wait! that's what she calls me! LOL! Our hubbies do not understand our friendship, because we also irritate each other! But really don't fight over anything. If she's done something that has irritated me, I need a bit of space, and then I tell her--same thing with her towards me. We are comforatble with each other. we could share anything and trust the other to not tell anyone else. So I guess that is my definition of a good friendship. I probably have 3 of those. My hubby is one of them--although he irritates me more often than my sister--I guess it's 'cause we live together! If i lived with my sister, I bet we'd irritate each other more often too! LOL!
The way I would define friendship, I'm not sure others would. I am a "people person", so I have lots of "friends". In my vending business, I have people I really like, and we chat a lot while i am there. I call them Friends.
But I've never been to their homes, nor they to mine. If they were sick and needed me, I'd be there.
I have friends that I've been friends with for 8 years. I'd say we are close. But I've discovered they can't handle weakness--they tend to get occupied and unable to be together in person--although they pray for us and call to see how we're doing. I've learned that about them, and still call them my friends.
And the friendship is strong during the "good" times. We share a lot of secrets with one another-- and I trust them.
I'd say my closest friend is my sister Lois. Yes, I'd hold her hair while she's puking--in fact I cleaned up where she missed--she's my sister! She's the one I call the most often on my long distance. I'd do just about anything for her, and she for me. (Anything in our power and what our hubbys allow). We share the deepest secrets, the silliest giggles--and yet she's a 12 hour drive away! She's a scatterbrained airhead-- oh wait! that's what she calls me! LOL! Our hubbies do not understand our friendship, because we also irritate each other! But really don't fight over anything. If she's done something that has irritated me, I need a bit of space, and then I tell her--same thing with her towards me. We are comforatble with each other. we could share anything and trust the other to not tell anyone else. So I guess that is my definition of a good friendship. I probably have 3 of those. My hubby is one of them--although he irritates me more often than my sister--I guess it's 'cause we live together! If i lived with my sister, I bet we'd irritate each other more often too! LOL!
I'm glad to see you back Psalmie! Here, I've poured this marshmallow cream in your hair and tossed in a few meatballs just for fun! FOOD FIGHT WITH PSALMIE
Twinky, I'm sorry it took so long to reply--I had to wash all that sticky marshmallow and s'ketti sauce outa my hair!
We're doin good--we move in about ten days, and life is good! (I hate moving and I love moving at the same time! LOL!) I don't know how often I'll be here, cuzza packing but I miss you all! I'm gonna have to poke my head in at chat once we're settled in.
Now. . . shhhhhhh! don't tell Krys about this big bowl of soggy salad with ranch dressing I'm about to tip over onto her head. . .
TIP! SPLAT!
OH yeah!!!
Here, Krys, ya need some chocolate sauce to go with that! POUR!
I'll sneak out and let this thread get back on topic--sorry Shellon!
I have lots of friends good or middling or just acquaintances... Mostly what makes a good friend is me being a good friend... and not expecting them to be perfect or at my beck and call.. I depend only on me... (lesson learned from growing up in an alcoholic home) In Twi I met a few really good people.. but I was not in one place long enough to make any real close friends... My WOW family certainly (But I was lucky to have a really awesome group of people)... but I have learned in life that day to day things change stuff happens people move in and out of your life.
Sometimes you get lucky and some one comes into your life that is a really exceptional person that you love and would do most anything for and they will do most anything for you...
I have a few of those friends and I have a few of the kind that are up for certain kinds of help and not others depending on their life .. the majority of my friends are just people that I enjoy being with.. And that really is how life is. I feel fortunate to have the few gems and I also feel lucky for the other close friends and for those whose company I enjoy, I feel like I have been blessed, to have known them all, they enrich my life and they are both online and not online.
More important to me is how I treat all of them... certainly if some one is a jerk I don't hang out with them anymore. But when someone is your friend you try to understand their weaknesses and you hope they understand yours...
I hope that in the end I have enriched their lives at least as much as they have mine.
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JeffSjo
It wasn't that long ago that I openly shared at GSC that I was looking for real friends. The silence was deafening.
But with all the concerns about the internet and the dangers I understand the silence. But no answer at all was actually a very clear answer to me.
(edited for clarity)
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bowtwi
Interesting subject, Shell! My first thoughts after reading your post were that once upon a time in a cult far away I thought I had a lot of friends. In one fell swoop, when I was falsely accused of being homosexual, I found out I had ZERO friends in that cult (I didn't think of it as a cult quite yet even when I tried to call a few of those I had considered my friends and heard them say the words out loud to me that they could not speak to me lest they too become marked and avoided...) and that was quite a blow to my heart. I found that I had a handful of "never-been way" friends that still loved me and offered to help me out when the cult threw us out.
It's about 15 years later now and I'd say I've made about 10 of what I today would call friends. Yes, these are people that I would feel free to call up and say I'd like to come visit with you for a day or so, do you have room to put me and mine up or can you recommend a clean hotel nearby (preferably with a pool)? I have invested emotion, time, heart - and mostly I feel I get back as good as I give.
Or, I'm in trouble in some way or don't know what to do - and can trust them to advise me in my best interest on any given topic.
Every once in a while I'm disappointed to find that what I considered a pretty good friendship really was only a one-sided deal with me giving 95% and more. Or they say they want a 100% truthful relationship with me and when I tell them the stuff that's hard to say, but 100% true they cease contacting me or set up rules as to when they want input and when they don't - and the rules change as their moods do. It never ceases to amaze me how humans will treat each other.
Hmmm, I just did the math and added up the people I consider friends and I'm surprised to see that I might have 5 true blue serious friends. Maybe 3.
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JeffSjo
The best or most useful answer that I can recall got me thinking.
In TWI were were taught to treat strangers as friends and family.
And furthermore how painful it was when these so-called friends aggreed to mark and avoid you.
Turns out what is a real friend is one of the best considerations but but also the most difficult that I have fielded here at GSC.
And it turns out that a lot of my old friends still associated with River Road Fellowship are no better than the mind numbed Wayfer that followed leadership's directives to mark and avoid.
Oh well, live and learn.
(edited for spelling and content)
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grand-daughter
Friends? I was taught that I was to have no friends when it came to the word and guess what....thats true! I can honestly say that in my life I really have no friends. (tears)
Sure I have my kids whom I'm a friend to. I still have my Lord Jesus Christ and oddly enough if you have read my story at all you may find this odd but I have my mom. But other then that I have no real honest to goodness friends here on earth.
(tears)
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cheranne
This song defines it for me.
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grand-daughter
ty cheranne :)
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Twinky
Jeepers, I thought I was the only one with no real friends. Sorry to see that I am wrong.
When I first got M&A'd, when I could pick up a Bible again I did some reading in the gospels about what a friend is. It was so miserable and depressing that my efforts didn't last long.
Might get different results if I tried the same thing now.
There are so many levels of friendship. But the number of folks in one's innermost circle is very small.
Actually I have a pretty good support group/ network of friends, who do care and share. And who would help in any way they could. But real intimates? Very few.
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George Aar
I used to think I knew. Anymore, not so much...
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mstar1
I have a tendency to agree along these lines. I have a fair amount what I would consider 'friends'. Some are acquaintances, some are people that I know and speak to regularly, others are a little closer, a very few are really close.
None of them is the perfect friend but collectively they cover the bases for just about everything that I want or need out of other people on multiple levels
I know that I can count on this person for this, or that person for that. I know who are the ones who will give me the straight talk , who will help me move the piano, who will talk something through with me, who will give me good business advice or personal help, who would crawl under my car in midwinter to fix something, who will just make me smile after along day or who will make me laugh endlessly at nothing in particular.
None are perfect but are all good folks--with their own strengths and weaknesses who do what they can. Collectively they are a good bunch for me and cover pretty much everything. I am probably somewhere in that same category for many of them.
The closer ones are a little harder to come by. It has taken me a lot of time and trust to cultivate those..
Im really not all that good at it as I have a tendency to keep a 'safe distance' before I really let anyone 'in' (once bitten, twice shy) but thankfully have a few.
They I would trust with anything
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George Aar
I think one of the more unsettling realizations one gains after a little experience is that the fairytale notions of "friends forever" or "true love" or any such concept of human interaction where some sort of permanence is invoked are probably not very close to reality.
Yes, I'm sure there's friendships that have endured a lot, but to think that they'll stay that way through anything is likely misguided. People are fallible, often weak, and break easily for the most part. And yes, I include myself in that mix.
Relationships that endure over decades I think are as much due to chance as anything else. Maybe they just never got a severe enough test to show what they're made of? I'm reminded of the family and friends that were lost at sea after the sinking of their sailboat. Several people stuck on a small boat with little to no supplies for weeks. They survived, but the husband and wife soon after divorced and none of the other folks - siblings and close friends - even see each other anymore. They'd gotten a little too much of a dose of each other's frailties and don't care to be reminded of it anymore, is my guess.
Ultimately, I think one has to learn to live with oneself. That's the only one you're sure will never leave you...
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Shellon
Yup, George, be a friend to be a friend, all that stuff that really does work.
Sometimes and I agree, if one can live with ones own self, life is a little more comfy.
Relationships take work, time, thought, understanding, listening, both giving, both considering the other, both nurturing the friendship/relationship, etc.
But yes, I agree, if s/he doesn't take care of their own self, I'd gventure they won't have a lot to bring to any type of relationship.
I understand this more and more, finally.
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Psalm 71 one
(Surprise, surprise! I'm here!)
The way I would define friendship, I'm not sure others would. I am a "people person", so I have lots of "friends". In my vending business, I have people I really like, and we chat a lot while i am there. I call them Friends.
But I've never been to their homes, nor they to mine. If they were sick and needed me, I'd be there.
I have friends that I've been friends with for 8 years. I'd say we are close. But I've discovered they can't handle weakness--they tend to get occupied and unable to be together in person--although they pray for us and call to see how we're doing. I've learned that about them, and still call them my friends.
And the friendship is strong during the "good" times. We share a lot of secrets with one another-- and I trust them.
I'd say my closest friend is my sister Lois. Yes, I'd hold her hair while she's puking--in fact I cleaned up where she missed--she's my sister! She's the one I call the most often on my long distance. I'd do just about anything for her, and she for me. (Anything in our power and what our hubbys allow). We share the deepest secrets, the silliest giggles--and yet she's a 12 hour drive away! She's a scatterbrained airhead-- oh wait! that's what she calls me! LOL! Our hubbies do not understand our friendship, because we also irritate each other! But really don't fight over anything. If she's done something that has irritated me, I need a bit of space, and then I tell her--same thing with her towards me. We are comforatble with each other. we could share anything and trust the other to not tell anyone else. So I guess that is my definition of a good friendship. I probably have 3 of those. My hubby is one of them--although he irritates me more often than my sister--I guess it's 'cause we live together! If i lived with my sister, I bet we'd irritate each other more often too! LOL!
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krys
I'm glad to see you back Psalmie! Here, I've poured this marshmallow cream in your hair and tossed in a few meatballs just for fun! FOOD FIGHT WITH PSALMIE
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waysider
Here's Buzzy Linhart's take on the subject.
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Twinky
Hey Psalmie, nice to see you back! How's things?
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Psalm 71 one
Twinky, I'm sorry it took so long to reply--I had to wash all that sticky marshmallow and s'ketti sauce outa my hair!
We're doin good--we move in about ten days, and life is good!
(I hate moving and I love moving at the same time! LOL!) I don't know how often I'll be here, cuzza packing but I miss you all! I'm gonna have to poke my head in at chat once we're settled in.
Now. . . shhhhhhh! don't tell Krys about this big bowl of soggy salad with ranch dressing I'm about to tip over onto her head. . .
TIP! SPLAT!
OH yeah!!!
Here, Krys, ya need some chocolate sauce to go with that! POUR!
I'll sneak out and let this thread get back on topic--sorry Shellon!
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Shellon
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leafytwiglet
I have lots of friends good or middling or just acquaintances... Mostly what makes a good friend is me being a good friend... and not expecting them to be perfect or at my beck and call.. I depend only on me... (lesson learned from growing up in an alcoholic home) In Twi I met a few really good people.. but I was not in one place long enough to make any real close friends... My WOW family certainly (But I was lucky to have a really awesome group of people)... but I have learned in life that day to day things change stuff happens people move in and out of your life.
Sometimes you get lucky and some one comes into your life that is a really exceptional person that you love and would do most anything for and they will do most anything for you...
I have a few of those friends and I have a few of the kind that are up for certain kinds of help and not others depending on their life .. the majority of my friends are just people that I enjoy being with.. And that really is how life is. I feel fortunate to have the few gems and I also feel lucky for the other close friends and for those whose company I enjoy, I feel like I have been blessed, to have known them all, they enrich my life and they are both online and not online.
More important to me is how I treat all of them... certainly if some one is a jerk I don't hang out with them anymore. But when someone is your friend you try to understand their weaknesses and you hope they understand yours...
I hope that in the end I have enriched their lives at least as much as they have mine.
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Sushi
Here's the Jersey version. An acquaintance is someone who will help you move. A friend is someone who will help you move a dead body.
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