Oh, they can always do what VP did and put their pictures up in the Founders room of the auditorium, talk about them in a historical sense as their "inspiration", plagiarize their work, and do whatever they d@mn well please. They've always been good at spin doctoring the bad out of anything. And the Stepford mansion will have a whole new round of robot recruits.
Also, I noticed in an article "Our Sufficiency is from God" on the new Way web site that they are using a translation VP never used to my knowledge, so I guess they've "changed" something in their reserach approach. It's a N.T. translation by Charles Bray Williams. Here is why he said he produced it, from the web site http://www.sprawls.org/williams/about_the_translator.htm
In these four centuries (since the death of William Tyndale, who was condemned to death for translating the New Testament into English and for seeking to put it into the hands of the plain people) scores of other translations have been made. Then why make another? someone asks. A distinguished Bible scholar answers, "Language is a fluid thing. It does not remain fixed for a day. There is therefore constant need of retranslation."
Our aim in publishing this new translation is that of Tyndale, "to cause the plowboy to know the Scriptures." Our aim is to make this greatest book in the world readable and understandable by the plain people. Only three books in the New Testament are written in anything like good literary GreekLuke, the Acts, and Hebrews. In our translation of these books we have tried to use good, smooth English. Elsewhere we use simple everyday English which reproduces the everyday Greek which the writers used. In accord with this aim we have used practical everyday words to replace many technical religious and theological terms. In other words, we have tried to use the words and phrases that are understandable by the farmer and the fisherman, by the carpenter and the cowboy, by the cobbler and the cabdriver, by the merchant and the miner, by the milkmaid and the housemistress, by the woodcutter and the trucker. If these can understand it, it is certain that the scholar, the teacher, the minister, the lawyer, the doctor, and all others can.
Over the past weeks I have seen some folks, in & out of TWI, say that our information here on GS is out of date and does not apply to the current TWI. Heck, we have heard for years that TWI has become kinder and gentler, all the "bad leaders" are gone and the "wrong doctrine" changed.
If this is so, then I personally would like to see a public from admission of this from official TWI sources. There are many people who were kicked out of TWI or driven out for reasons that may not be valid, including questioning doctrine that TWI no longer holds to or confronting leaders who have in turn been thrown out.
It's not as if I have any plans to return to TWI, but they would gain a measure of my respect for coming clean, admitting their problems and apologizing to those who they hurt.
Personally, I would have to see a lot more evidence of any "change" than what I've heard anywhere so far. Your last sentence is the key for me, too. For ten years I lived in the same place I lived when I was in the Way in Florida. My former Fellowship was not in my town, but there was a Fellowship run by family members of the key playahs in my former fellowship, who knew exactly where to find me, and only a few years after I left the 5th Reich (TWI) I ran into people from my former Fellowship. From what I was told over and over in TWI, if you wrong someone you A) acknowledge your wrongdoing, B) genuinely seek forgiveness, B) don't do it again. But I never heard a word from anyone. The people I crossed paths with looked like they didn't know me. But OK, maybe the people in my former Fellowship were just manipulative scum. More importantly, so far there has been no official recognition or repudiation of TWI's routine abuse from TWI. So, no, I don't buy anything about fundamental changes.
Just for bits and giggles, let's contrast that with a local chapter of the Society for Creative Anachronism. Different kind of beastie, to be sure, but sort of the same principle. For years their leadership treated people like garbage. About five years later, when the old guard was gone, a new officer came and told me that they knew a lot of negative things had happened under the old clique, that things had changed, and they invited me to come and talk to them. Now, that's how it's done.
TWI? Nope. Too many of the same yay-hoos are still there.
Some of the posts here carry "dated" information but I like it because it shows the history of that ministry. Nothing of note has changed. If anything the evil in that outfit has become more subtle but at the top of the dog pile, Rosalie pines away for the good old days when they could be mean and nasty all the time. Really, if anything has changed, it's been because of legal restrictions and not wanting to get dragged into court again.
I was flipping through channels last Sunday morning and a sunday service teaching was being broadcast on a local station.I watched about 5 minutes of the teaching,in my opinion same boring,scripted,lifeless and torture to sit through stuff.Seriously,they need to move on,quit being lazy and do something new.
I was flipping through channels last Sunday morning and a sunday service teaching was being broadcast on a local station.I watched about 5 minutes of the teaching,in my opinion same boring,scripted,lifeless and torture to sit through stuff.Seriously,they need to move on,quit being lazy and do something new.
Most of us have probably lost touch with current events at The Way. Is that what really matters? The Way is still essentially the same organization at its core structure. Its system of operation, as we remember it, is still intact. It's still corrupt at the management level and that corruption has an effect on the rank and file members who may not be aware of the true nature of the beast. That's what we continue to expose here.
It seems to me that any organization that charges money to learn their interpretation of the scriptures which they claim to be The Word of God is suspect.
It may very well be that the information here at GSC is old. However, given that both twi and it's bastard children... ummm ... I mean splinter groups point to vp's reign of terror as some kind of sacred beginning of a new administration, it's good to keep pointing out the evil he and his cronies spawned and perpetuated.
Over the past weeks I have seen some folks, in & out of TWI, say that our information here on GS is out of date and does not apply to the current TWI. Heck, we have heard for years that TWI has become kinder and gentler, all the "bad leaders" are gone and the "wrong doctrine" changed.
I have experience in this area. I was with TWI from 1975-2008. This "kinder & gentler" thing is only "good for business"...
They remembered how their numbers had flourished in the 70's & early 80's, when The Way acted more out of "grace" toward people.
And they saw what had happened over the years when LCM got the "mantle". At first he encouraged the way to have "more quality believers" and certain things were rather frowned upon by leadership like witnessing to homeless people or in bars, etc. (And besides that, those sort didn't really have much to offer in the way of ABS - a major concern to the BUSINESS PEOPLE of the way!)
As he progressed, LCM got so carried away by adding more and more to these initial "constraints" that he starting "yelling and demanding", truly LORDING OVER the flock.
Well, it's no secret how his "bashing" and "laying down the law" to people had chased many followers away. Even later on, things progressed into the "split", which triggered an immediate loss of MUCH manpower and money!
And at that time, LCM "demanded" obedience to those who were considered the "faithful remnant". He required each remaining follower to answer the question, "Whose side are you on?".
This (over time) along with his ever-increasing "new demands" caused so much devastation to the numbers of The Way it is NO WONDER that later on they decided to TONE IT DOWN!
They weren't really doing it to be nice. They had learned over the years that they "could catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"!
And as far as "revamping the class" is concerned: They saw how LCM's treatment of the scriptures wasn't working, so they eventually and gradually have been attempting to return to teaching PFAL very similar to what it was in the OLD DAYS in an attempt to see if it will work just like it did in the 70's and early 80's. (Perhaps they suppose the original PFAL worked like some sort of "magic".)
Why? Bottom line - numbers of people - more ABS. Remember - It's a business! Whatever makes "more capital" flow into their coffers is the defining principle from which everything else they really desire will be derived.
Shortly before I left, I had decided to buy a house (with a mortgage). A few years earlier, this would have been HARSHLY REPROVED, perhaps even to the point of being "marked and avoided".
This action was "tolerated", although I was to understand that I could not be a "leader" or join the Corps, or go Way Disciple. (It's funny, however - I was still allowed to play guitar and sing for Limb and Region meetings! Remember - to them that was still considered as "very encouraging" for newcomers in the crowd, who would return if they had a good time. Perhaps they would take classes and learn to GIVE MONEY to them.)
And check this out! Despite the fact they did not approve of me buying the house "from the bank", they were very much looking forward to using it for running classes and as an "alternate fellowship location" at times.
And why is this? It is a NICE LOOKING HOME! It carries with it the appearance of the sort of ABUNDANCE God showers on "faithful followers" such as myself! (???) And, of course, despite the fact I was not being "truly faithful", such plans for the use of our home were only "for show"!
And - not to boast - I bet that after we left, they sorely missed the almost $10K my wife and I gave to them each year. Perhaps that is part of the reason they continued to be so "nice" to us. We were GREAT GIVERS!
And I'll tell you what! That "chunk of change" sure comes in mighty handy these days - and it makes what we still provide in the community (which is a "mere pittance" compared to that) to be done VERY VERY CHEERFULLY!
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chockfull
Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. The leaders in TWI haven't changed. But it's a nice sounding
OldSkool
Some of the posts here carry "dated" information but I like it because it shows the history of that ministry. Nothing of note has changed. If anything the evil in that outfit has become more subtle bu
Ham
add to that the statement "I have no friends when it comes to (what MY opinion is about) da word.."
"I'm a nice guy, as long as you don't offend my idol.."
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WordWolf
With some of the main conspirators still running twi (rfr and Donna),
it's amazing how current a lot of the old news still is.
Then again, with it a matter of public record that rfr lied to the
twi members,
why is it a surprise they'll just believe anything she says now?
They haven't stopped yet...
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Patriot
From my perspective, we may not be out of date, but I've not seen as much 'fresh'
stuff on what is happening now. I'm sure its still boring as hell.
Things have changed? Did they do away with the 'no debt' policy as a requirement to
attend their advanced class? From their own logic, how does one 'put on all the armor
of God' if they do not operate 6 of 9 manifestations? So they intentionally withhold
insider's instruction on those 6 if they have debt? What it their Biblical justification
to that?
So much for 'Change' that I can believe in!
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waysider
At least they put PFAL in mothballs. That's a step in the right direction. Take the poison off the shelf. Keep it out of the reach of children.
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waysider
Maybe somebody could petition them to bring it back. Advertise it as the greatest thing since kool-aid was invented.
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Bolshevik
they who?
They weren't there
History always belongs to the Victor . . . he he
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penworks
Does anyone know how much or what portions of PFAL content is carried over into their new class, The Way of Abundance and Power?
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penworks
Also, I noticed in an article "Our Sufficiency is from God" on the new Way web site that they are using a translation VP never used to my knowledge, so I guess they've "changed" something in their reserach approach. It's a N.T. translation by Charles Bray Williams. Here is why he said he produced it, from the web site http://www.sprawls.org/williams/about_the_translator.htm
In these four centuries (since the death of William Tyndale, who was condemned to death for translating the New Testament into English and for seeking to put it into the hands of the plain people) scores of other translations have been made. Then why make another? someone asks. A distinguished Bible scholar answers, "Language is a fluid thing. It does not remain fixed for a day. There is therefore constant need of retranslation."
Our aim in publishing this new translation is that of Tyndale, "to cause the plowboy to know the Scriptures." Our aim is to make this greatest book in the world readable and understandable by the plain people. Only three books in the New Testament are written in anything like good literary GreekLuke, the Acts, and Hebrews. In our translation of these books we have tried to use good, smooth English. Elsewhere we use simple everyday English which reproduces the everyday Greek which the writers used. In accord with this aim we have used practical everyday words to replace many technical religious and theological terms. In other words, we have tried to use the words and phrases that are understandable by the farmer and the fisherman, by the carpenter and the cowboy, by the cobbler and the cabdriver, by the merchant and the miner, by the milkmaid and the housemistress, by the woodcutter and the trucker. If these can understand it, it is certain that the scholar, the teacher, the minister, the lawyer, the doctor, and all others can.
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DocHoliday
Personally, I would have to see a lot more evidence of any "change" than what I've heard anywhere so far. Your last sentence is the key for me, too. For ten years I lived in the same place I lived when I was in the Way in Florida. My former Fellowship was not in my town, but there was a Fellowship run by family members of the key playahs in my former fellowship, who knew exactly where to find me, and only a few years after I left the 5th Reich (TWI) I ran into people from my former Fellowship. From what I was told over and over in TWI, if you wrong someone you A) acknowledge your wrongdoing, B) genuinely seek forgiveness, B) don't do it again. But I never heard a word from anyone. The people I crossed paths with looked like they didn't know me. But OK, maybe the people in my former Fellowship were just manipulative scum. More importantly, so far there has been no official recognition or repudiation of TWI's routine abuse from TWI. So, no, I don't buy anything about fundamental changes.
Just for bits and giggles, let's contrast that with a local chapter of the Society for Creative Anachronism. Different kind of beastie, to be sure, but sort of the same principle. For years their leadership treated people like garbage. About five years later, when the old guard was gone, a new officer came and told me that they knew a lot of negative things had happened under the old clique, that things had changed, and they invited me to come and talk to them. Now, that's how it's done.
TWI? Nope. Too many of the same yay-hoos are still there.
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frank123lol
Just recently saw a calender of local events of der vey,same as I left 9 years ago!Boring...
Still playing they are an innocent church from rural Ohio.What a cover for what lies beneath.
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OldSkool
Some of the posts here carry "dated" information but I like it because it shows the history of that ministry. Nothing of note has changed. If anything the evil in that outfit has become more subtle but at the top of the dog pile, Rosalie pines away for the good old days when they could be mean and nasty all the time. Really, if anything has changed, it's been because of legal restrictions and not wanting to get dragged into court again.
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mudflaps
I was flipping through channels last Sunday morning and a sunday service teaching was being broadcast on a local station.I watched about 5 minutes of the teaching,in my opinion same boring,scripted,lifeless and torture to sit through stuff.Seriously,they need to move on,quit being lazy and do something new.
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OldSkool
Oh, they think that is the best in the world.
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waysider
Most of us have probably lost touch with current events at The Way. Is that what really matters? The Way is still essentially the same organization at its core structure. Its system of operation, as we remember it, is still intact. It's still corrupt at the management level and that corruption has an effect on the rank and file members who may not be aware of the true nature of the beast. That's what we continue to expose here.
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penworks
It seems to me that any organization that charges money to learn their interpretation of the scriptures which they claim to be The Word of God is suspect.
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doojable
It may very well be that the information here at GSC is old. However, given that both twi and it's bastard children... ummm ... I mean splinter groups point to vp's reign of terror as some kind of sacred beginning of a new administration, it's good to keep pointing out the evil he and his cronies spawned and perpetuated.
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Bolshevik
ppfffttt!!!!
I certainly call their "unawareness" into question. It's "corrupt" top to bottom. Stay away from Wayfers, all of them.
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spectrum49
I have experience in this area. I was with TWI from 1975-2008. This "kinder & gentler" thing is only "good for business"...
They remembered how their numbers had flourished in the 70's & early 80's, when The Way acted more out of "grace" toward people.
And they saw what had happened over the years when LCM got the "mantle". At first he encouraged the way to have "more quality believers" and certain things were rather frowned upon by leadership like witnessing to homeless people or in bars, etc. (And besides that, those sort didn't really have much to offer in the way of ABS - a major concern to the BUSINESS PEOPLE of the way!)
As he progressed, LCM got so carried away by adding more and more to these initial "constraints" that he starting "yelling and demanding", truly LORDING OVER the flock.
Well, it's no secret how his "bashing" and "laying down the law" to people had chased many followers away. Even later on, things progressed into the "split", which triggered an immediate loss of MUCH manpower and money!
And at that time, LCM "demanded" obedience to those who were considered the "faithful remnant". He required each remaining follower to answer the question, "Whose side are you on?".
This (over time) along with his ever-increasing "new demands" caused so much devastation to the numbers of The Way it is NO WONDER that later on they decided to TONE IT DOWN!
They weren't really doing it to be nice. They had learned over the years that they "could catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"!
And as far as "revamping the class" is concerned: They saw how LCM's treatment of the scriptures wasn't working, so they eventually and gradually have been attempting to return to teaching PFAL very similar to what it was in the OLD DAYS in an attempt to see if it will work just like it did in the 70's and early 80's. (Perhaps they suppose the original PFAL worked like some sort of "magic".)
Why? Bottom line - numbers of people - more ABS. Remember - It's a business! Whatever makes "more capital" flow into their coffers is the defining principle from which everything else they really desire will be derived.
Shortly before I left, I had decided to buy a house (with a mortgage). A few years earlier, this would have been HARSHLY REPROVED, perhaps even to the point of being "marked and avoided".
This action was "tolerated", although I was to understand that I could not be a "leader" or join the Corps, or go Way Disciple. (It's funny, however - I was still allowed to play guitar and sing for Limb and Region meetings! Remember - to them that was still considered as "very encouraging" for newcomers in the crowd, who would return if they had a good time. Perhaps they would take classes and learn to GIVE MONEY to them.)
And check this out! Despite the fact they did not approve of me buying the house "from the bank", they were very much looking forward to using it for running classes and as an "alternate fellowship location" at times.
And why is this? It is a NICE LOOKING HOME! It carries with it the appearance of the sort of ABUNDANCE God showers on "faithful followers" such as myself! (???) And, of course, despite the fact I was not being "truly faithful", such plans for the use of our home were only "for show"!
And - not to boast - I bet that after we left, they sorely missed the almost $10K my wife and I gave to them each year. Perhaps that is part of the reason they continued to be so "nice" to us. We were GREAT GIVERS!
And I'll tell you what! That "chunk of change" sure comes in mighty handy these days - and it makes what we still provide in the community (which is a "mere pittance" compared to that) to be done VERY VERY CHEERFULLY!
"For God loveth a cheerful giver."
SPEC
:)
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