You know what I find amazing is the ratio for federal spending as opposed to what each state pays to the federal government in taxes. Texas ranks pretty good actually the latest ( said with tongue in cheek ,these are 2004 figures) is Texas gets back 94 cents for each dollar it pays in. I don't hear about California and seceding and they only get 79 cents back for each dollar. Your state is surrounded by a bunch of "welfare queens" though. New Mexico at 2.00 received for every dollar leads the pack. Ok at 1.48,
AR at 1.47, LA at 1.45, Ks at 1.12, and NE at 1.07. Poor CO comes in at .79 . so it could be worse.
So where do you stand on this and what exactly is Washington doing that is so heinous that Texans want to secede?
Can you elaborate?
I remember last year when your Governor brought up the idea of secession then within a week or so accepted federal stimulus funds
Which honestly is about all I know--I lot of smoke but not much fire.
At the very least Texans would have their taxes raised to make up for the lossof federal funds, you'd lose all your military bases, NASA and all the jobs that go with it, and youd have to institute your own agencies to replace the federal agencies there which would also cost a bucketload of cash. Oh and speaking of healthcare your older people would lose their Medicare--
What exactly would be the upside if Texans declared war on the United States?
What if Texas seceded.. it might have one good unintended effect: we'd probably see our soldiers brought home from the four corners of the earth in less than two weeks..
Assuming that a secession could be achieved non-violently, the upsides would be not having to pay huge federal taxes to bail out failures like California, freedom to determine our own energy policy, and to determine education and health care policies that best fit our constituents (things that the federal government has no business doing), among others. What may come as a surprise to many people is tht Texas isn't just an energy economy; we have a large agrarian base, as well, so we'd be in a good position to be, if not self-sustaining, then sustainable by trade with other countries (including the 49 United States). :)
It would be particularly sweet if we could "nationalize" the military bases here and not have to develop our own military from scratch, but I think Washington would object. ;)
Since Medicare is paid largely by the states, anyway, that wouldn't change much; and we wouldn't have to subsidize Nebraska, etc.
Although I'm not happy that Gov. Perry did accept some Obamamoney, it was a small amount, used to pay for educational supplies. Most Obamamoney offered had strings attached (set up entitlements that had to go on after the Obamamoney went away, etc.); this was refused.
Assuming that a secession could be achieved non-violently, the upsides would be not having to pay huge federal taxes to bail out failures like California, freedom to determine our own energy policy, and to determine education and health care policies that best fit our constituents (things that the federal government has no business doing), among others. What may come as a surprise to many people is tht Texas isn't just an energy economy; we have a large agrarian base, as well, so we'd be in a good position to be, if not self-sustaining, then sustainable by trade with other countries (including the 49 United States). :)
It would be particularly sweet if we could "nationalize" the military bases here and not have to develop our own military from scratch, but I think Washington would object. ;)
Since Medicare is paid largely by the states, anyway, that wouldn't change much; and we wouldn't have to subsidize Nebraska, etc.
Although I'm not happy that Gov. Perry did accept some Obamamoney, it was a small amount, used to pay for educational supplies. Most Obamamoney offered had strings attached (set up entitlements that had to go on after the Obamamoney went away, etc.); this was refused.
George
I think there could be trade difficulties for many years with the '49'. And do you really think it could be done without violence? And where would TExas get an army and armory except by stealing from US?
But you could set up a Bush dynasty,no one to stop it. SOunds like a quick jump into third world to me.
I took a look at that link, the Texas Insider, and was amused to see how quickly the conservative side (of which I used to be a card-carrying member) forgets its own abuses, and focuses so intently on perceived abuses of the other side. (This is hardly a phenomenon limited to only one side.) There was one line, "Liberals don’t respect the Constitution, and liberals in Congress don’t hesitate to propose legislation that would clearly violate it.." Sorry, but I couldn't help but recall Cheney saying that he wasn't part of the executive branch; the Justice department making permanent appointments based primarily on an applicant's politics, and only secondarily on that applicant's qualifications; illegal wire-tapping; illegal incarcerations in Gitmo; and so many others that I don't have the time or inclination to bring them all to mind; I've just had lunch, and must protect the digestive process. I do, however, have to mention handing the wealth of our country over to big business to the degree that if we hadn't had a major change in administrations, we'd be owned by China shortly. Oversimplification, but you all remember how frighteing that was. The recession is slowing down; it would have deepened into a depression if we'd stayed on that track.
I'm also a fifth-generation Texan, and think that any movement to try to get Texans to give up being Americans will A)never work, B)embarrass our great state no end, and C) put Texas in a worse position than it currently is.
But it is the redneck way, yee-haw. I can still do a pretty darn good yee-haw, but I'm no separatist.
This is hardly a phenomenon limited to only one side.) There was one line, "Liberals don’t respect the Constitution, and liberals in Congress don’t hesitate to propose legislation that would clearly violate it.
It seems to be becoming a fairly regular sideshow--During republican administrations Vermont threatens secession, during democratic--its Texas.
They both use near the exact same rhetoric centering around some indeterminable disrespect for the constitution, act infuriated, make a few resolutions, have some meetings, get some press ...In short they make a little noise but the idea is so outlandishly distant from reality that it is more a source of amusement than genuine concern
I respect the passion although I usually find it completely misdirected no matter from which side it comes.
The country has been through this before--and Yea that worked really well
Others may disagree, but "Yeehaw" is not really a sound political philosophy to build anything lasting imo
Outside of a bunch of ranting nutjobs, nobody is really serious about it. I doubt that poll number is even accurate, but I also can see people voting for it as a joke just like voting for Kinky Friedman. The majority of those that really want to secede are the same nuts that live in cult compounds and listen to Rush Limbaugh all day. They sit around being angry over imagined offenses, fearful of imagined threats, and planning for impossible futures. If Texas tried to secede, even if the U.S. said no, we'd fail as a nation. How many of our jobs depend on other states? How much of our food is imported? We might stand half of a chance if we set up deals with other nations ahead of time, particularly Mexico since they sell us a lot of food, but I really don't think it would work.
Here's my attitude re: Texas seceding from the rest of the Union:
1) Build a fence around the Texas border on the U.S. side.
2) Cut off ALL possibilities of foreign aid to Texas should they get around to asking for it (... and they will. Count on it).
3) Tell Texas that if they try to take over even ONE of our military bases, we'd be on them like skin on flint. (Fort Sumter, SC in 1861 anyone? ;) ) ... Hell, Guantanamo is right on Cuban soil, and yet the Cubans wouldn't _dare_ try to take it, as we'd make Cuba the 51st state in a New York minute, ... and they know it.
4) Ditto with NASA, Johnson Space Flight Center, and other space related programs that Texas now benefits from in so many ways.
And here's my fav. 5) 'Encourage' all them Mexican 'illegal aliens' to just head for Texas, ... en masse! Say "Hey! Our Homeland Security won't bother any of you heading for the Yellow Rose of Texas like we would if you were heading for any other state." ... How f-a-s-t do _you_ think that Texas' economy would tank with an irresistible temptation like that, ... hhmmm?
And how f-a-s-t do you think more and more Texas 'patriots' would be concerned about the temptation of Mexico taking Texas back. ... Remember, ... _no_ foreign aid coming from us to Texas. ...
... including any military aid to help Texas fight off the aforementioned possible Mexican incursion.
Now don't you think that this info just might cool the jets of "Texas Will Secede From The Union!" teabaggers?
Damn! This is more hilarious than a good Saturday Night Live episode!
It seems to be becoming a fairly regular sideshow--During republican administrations Vermont threatens secession, during democratic--its Texas.
They both use near the exact same rhetoric centering around some indeterminable disrespect for the constitution, act infuriated, make a few resolutions, have some meetings, get some press ...In short they make a little noise but the idea is so outlandishly distant from reality that it is more a source of amusement than genuine concern
And . . . Bennington is STILL trying to get out . . . of Vermont. They want to become a part of New Hampshire. They are getting really serious about it. Bennington, New Hampshire just doesn't sound right.
Bennington, New Hampshire just doesn't sound right.
--
Do you mean Brattleboro?--Ive only been there a few times but I love the marvelous eccentricity of that town..
I think I'd either go with The Peoples Republic of Brattleboro--or take em into Massachusetts...They'd add an interesting political twist--any town that has a law "all nudists must wear hats" :P is OK in my book
Do you mean Brattleboro?--Ive only been there a few times but I love the marvelous eccentricity of that town..
I think I'd either go with The Peoples Republic of Brattleboro--or take em into Massachusetts...They'd add an interesting political twist--any town that has a law "all nudists must wear hats" :P is OK in my book
Brattleboro . . . I love it! I am there once a week at least, and yes, the nudists are out there on the street(In summer)!! Indescribable town. But, no, it was Bennington, something to do with ski revenue.
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bulwinkl
You know what I find amazing is the ratio for federal spending as opposed to what each state pays to the federal government in taxes. Texas ranks pretty good actually the latest ( said with tongue in cheek ,these are 2004 figures) is Texas gets back 94 cents for each dollar it pays in. I don't hear about California and seceding and they only get 79 cents back for each dollar. Your state is surrounded by a bunch of "welfare queens" though. New Mexico at 2.00 received for every dollar leads the pack. Ok at 1.48,
AR at 1.47, LA at 1.45, Ks at 1.12, and NE at 1.07. Poor CO comes in at .79 . so it could be worse.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0923084.html
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mstar1
So where do you stand on this and what exactly is Washington doing that is so heinous that Texans want to secede?
Can you elaborate?
I remember last year when your Governor brought up the idea of secession then within a week or so accepted federal stimulus funds
Which honestly is about all I know--I lot of smoke but not much fire.
At the very least Texans would have their taxes raised to make up for the lossof federal funds, you'd lose all your military bases, NASA and all the jobs that go with it, and youd have to institute your own agencies to replace the federal agencies there which would also cost a bucketload of cash. Oh and speaking of healthcare your older people would lose their Medicare--
What exactly would be the upside if Texans declared war on the United States?
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nyunknown
http://www.texasinsider.org/?p=5648
Well that is interesting how about texas and the other 10 states declare war on Washington D.C?
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waysider
Open season on armadillos.
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nyunknown
Open season on armadillos.
What do they taste like? Does it go well with merlot?
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Ham
What if Texas seceded.. it might have one good unintended effect: we'd probably see our soldiers brought home from the four corners of the earth in less than two weeks..
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Ham
well.. except for the soldiers from Texas. Who knows what they would do with them...
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frank123lol
Knowing our government.They would probably put them in jail.
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mstar1
If they sided with Texas they would be 'enemy combatants', go directly to Gitmo, no trials just like people are clamoring for.
Would Texas build an immigration fence on its North to keep out the damn 'Mericans?
Seriously I hope ex70's comes back and tells us what the upside is and what they are so upset about
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nyunknown
another good thing we would not have anymore presidents from texas if anyone here thinks that is good.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Assuming that a secession could be achieved non-violently, the upsides would be not having to pay huge federal taxes to bail out failures like California, freedom to determine our own energy policy, and to determine education and health care policies that best fit our constituents (things that the federal government has no business doing), among others. What may come as a surprise to many people is tht Texas isn't just an energy economy; we have a large agrarian base, as well, so we'd be in a good position to be, if not self-sustaining, then sustainable by trade with other countries (including the 49 United States). :)
It would be particularly sweet if we could "nationalize" the military bases here and not have to develop our own military from scratch, but I think Washington would object. ;)
Since Medicare is paid largely by the states, anyway, that wouldn't change much; and we wouldn't have to subsidize Nebraska, etc.
Although I'm not happy that Gov. Perry did accept some Obamamoney, it was a small amount, used to pay for educational supplies. Most Obamamoney offered had strings attached (set up entitlements that had to go on after the Obamamoney went away, etc.); this was refused.
George
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Bramble
I think there could be trade difficulties for many years with the '49'. And do you really think it could be done without violence? And where would TExas get an army and armory except by stealing from US?
But you could set up a Bush dynasty,no one to stop it. SOunds like a quick jump into third world to me.
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mstar1
Texas ranks SECOND to California as of today in funds awarded from the feds at $19.4 Billion.
LINK
Maybe thats a 'small amount' to Texans but its pretty sizable where I come from---what other heinous things have they done to you.
Do you plan to pay that back to the rest of us when you get out from under the evil clutches of the feds?
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notinKansasanymore
What in the name of Molly Ivins is goin' on hyar?
I took a look at that link, the Texas Insider, and was amused to see how quickly the conservative side (of which I used to be a card-carrying member) forgets its own abuses, and focuses so intently on perceived abuses of the other side. (This is hardly a phenomenon limited to only one side.) There was one line, "Liberals don’t respect the Constitution, and liberals in Congress don’t hesitate to propose legislation that would clearly violate it.." Sorry, but I couldn't help but recall Cheney saying that he wasn't part of the executive branch; the Justice department making permanent appointments based primarily on an applicant's politics, and only secondarily on that applicant's qualifications; illegal wire-tapping; illegal incarcerations in Gitmo; and so many others that I don't have the time or inclination to bring them all to mind; I've just had lunch, and must protect the digestive process. I do, however, have to mention handing the wealth of our country over to big business to the degree that if we hadn't had a major change in administrations, we'd be owned by China shortly. Oversimplification, but you all remember how frighteing that was. The recession is slowing down; it would have deepened into a depression if we'd stayed on that track.
I'm also a fifth-generation Texan, and think that any movement to try to get Texans to give up being Americans will A)never work, B)embarrass our great state no end, and C) put Texas in a worse position than it currently is.
But it is the redneck way, yee-haw. I can still do a pretty darn good yee-haw, but I'm no separatist.
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mstar1
It seems to be becoming a fairly regular sideshow--During republican administrations Vermont threatens secession, during democratic--its Texas.
They both use near the exact same rhetoric centering around some indeterminable disrespect for the constitution, act infuriated, make a few resolutions, have some meetings, get some press ...In short they make a little noise but the idea is so outlandishly distant from reality that it is more a source of amusement than genuine concern
I respect the passion although I usually find it completely misdirected no matter from which side it comes.
The country has been through this before--and Yea that worked really well
Others may disagree, but "Yeehaw" is not really a sound political philosophy to build anything lasting imo
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Mister P-Mosh
Outside of a bunch of ranting nutjobs, nobody is really serious about it. I doubt that poll number is even accurate, but I also can see people voting for it as a joke just like voting for Kinky Friedman. The majority of those that really want to secede are the same nuts that live in cult compounds and listen to Rush Limbaugh all day. They sit around being angry over imagined offenses, fearful of imagined threats, and planning for impossible futures. If Texas tried to secede, even if the U.S. said no, we'd fail as a nation. How many of our jobs depend on other states? How much of our food is imported? We might stand half of a chance if we set up deals with other nations ahead of time, particularly Mexico since they sell us a lot of food, but I really don't think it would work.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Vermont wanted to leave, and we didn't let them?
George
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Bolshevik
they can only keep us out. "Welcome to Vermont, now go home."
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GarthP2000
Here's my attitude re: Texas seceding from the rest of the Union:
1) Build a fence around the Texas border on the U.S. side.
2) Cut off ALL possibilities of foreign aid to Texas should they get around to asking for it (... and they will. Count on it).
3) Tell Texas that if they try to take over even ONE of our military bases, we'd be on them like skin on flint. (Fort Sumter, SC in 1861 anyone? ;) ) ... Hell, Guantanamo is right on Cuban soil, and yet the Cubans wouldn't _dare_ try to take it, as we'd make Cuba the 51st state in a New York minute, ... and they know it.
4) Ditto with NASA, Johnson Space Flight Center, and other space related programs that Texas now benefits from in so many ways.
And here's my fav. 5) 'Encourage' all them Mexican 'illegal aliens' to just head for Texas, ... en masse! Say "Hey! Our Homeland Security won't bother any of you heading for the Yellow Rose of Texas like we would if you were heading for any other state." ... How f-a-s-t do _you_ think that Texas' economy would tank with an irresistible temptation like that, ... hhmmm?
And how f-a-s-t do you think more and more Texas 'patriots' would be concerned about the temptation of Mexico taking Texas back. ... Remember, ... _no_ foreign aid coming from us to Texas. ...
... including any military aid to help Texas fight off the aforementioned possible Mexican incursion.
Now don't you think that this info just might cool the jets of "Texas Will Secede From The Union!" teabaggers?
Damn! This is more hilarious than a good Saturday Night Live episode!
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geisha779
And . . . Bennington is STILL trying to get out . . . of Vermont. They want to become a part of New Hampshire. They are getting really serious about it. Bennington, New Hampshire just doesn't sound right.
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mstar1
Do you mean Brattleboro?--Ive only been there a few times but I love the marvelous eccentricity of that town..
I think I'd either go with The Peoples Republic of Brattleboro--or take em into Massachusetts...They'd add an interesting political twist--any town that has a law "all nudists must wear hats" :P is OK in my book
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nyunknown
This whole tread should be put into the silly tread.
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RumRunner
That town definitely got stuck in a 1960's time stasis.
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geisha779
Brattleboro . . . I love it! I am there once a week at least, and yes, the nudists are out there on the street(In summer)!! Indescribable town. But, no, it was Bennington, something to do with ski revenue.
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