One example probably shouldn't set the stage for all. Any relationship takes an incredible amount of work, maintenance, communication and willingness to hang in there to do all that.
Having something in common from the beginning isn't a bad thing, even while it does have the potential to make things tougher, it can also have the potential to provide a good base. It's up to the couple.
I might see where Martindale hooking up with a gal who had only had PFAL could cause massive strife, I get that part of your points.
But like any relationship, twi related or not, both have to be 100% aware of the others' "issues" (I'm sick of that word) and deal. There is also the added good of some hearty discussions at the supper table sharing memories of all that stuff. "Remember the time Wierwille said _____ "and some great and necessary laughter to follow or perhaps some healing from being able to have someone that gets it. That's pretty valuable and easier in perhaps another dynamic where the other person just can't relate.
I don't think it's as simple as putting on ones dance card "if you were ever in a cult, I won't do the two step with ya".
Love doesn't come around very often and why not take it if it does, if both are ready for love and willing to do what it takes? And we can't judge a couple from one experience, as well, I don't think.
Hopefully if a couple are rockin it like they're "supposed" to, it's not about twi or any other such prior involvements, but rather about the two of them figuring it out privately and personally and if they do choose to offer something more public, it's done with an amount of tact and respect to each other, before the community with which they share.
Well said Shellon. . . . For me, it could not have worked out better. . . . hubby and I work through our TWI related issues together. . .it isn't the focal point of our relationship. . . . it never really was. . . . a healthy dose of hormones ruled :) . . . . we were baaaad Wayfers.
I am just glad he ""gets" it, doesn't judge me when I am figuring it out. . . . supports me and gives me the space to change my mind when I want or need to. . . . and it has never hurt that he brings me coffee every morning.
All in all. . . . . it probably serves to make us a bit more forgiving and patient with each other.
i admit that i've only got to see one brief moment of one brief relationship and that was a moment on a message board to boot, but i've seen other things in "real life" too that i relate to the ex cult thing, like in my therapy and classes they recommend that i don't get into any relationship for at least two years after an abusive relationship and after i've had intensive therapy and classes. even then they recommend that i keep a journal of what i'm attracted to in that other person and talk in classes and groups about why and let the others ask me the hard questions. also they recommend background checks and to talk to former partners of the other person so that if the other person has an abusive past then they recommend that the other person go through the therapy and classes for at least two years before a relationship is started. because this stuff gets into your head in a way that you don't even know and you can't know until you're in the middle of a situation and then probably it's too late to stop and analyze it, and then you're probably doing the same old thing you've always done and the "circle" just doesn't get broken. and i know having been in the way international is not different at all because i've had to also deal with having been in the way international as well as having been in too many abusive relationships (for me it was like the chicken and the egg because i never could tell which came first).
i get that communication and working at it is important, but without long-term professional help i don't understand how it would work for the long-term unless it becomes a repeat performance of the relationships found before. and that makes me wonder if that isn't the basis for what people are looking for when hooking up with ex cultists. i don't know and that's why i'm asking the questions. it really scares me because to me it's like putting two ex cons together. the law doesn't allow it because the law knows what's going to happen. and even if it isn't marriage or friendship we're talking about, then it's a church or a "fellowship" or a "research ministry" and there's plenty of examples of those going sour because they're all the same dna of the father that spawned them.
and i get that love can cover a multitude of "sins" but i also get "what's love got to do with it?" because the way international started out loving people up and then look what happened. maybe i'm just paranoid or something.
oh and i'm not talking about staying with those you were with while in the way international. i don't mean to break up marriages and relationships and friendships. i'm talking about going back to reconnect with people you've haven't seen in years or to hook up with people you didn't know then but have since met because of here or some other ex cult place.
I have seen couples that had similar tendencies getting pulled into all kinds of bad things over the years. Any ex-wayfers that happen to be together may or may not happen to fall into old and less than healthy patterns.
If a couple happened to have a snootfull and were the types of people that could accidentally fall into an adult version of provocation and belittling others they may be ex-wayfers or just living out their unfortunatly already established habits of naturally gravitating toward their old behavior of being the ruthless psycho chearleader and the ex-nerd with a chip on his shoulder. Either way, IMO, the thoughtless and jerky behavior may look just about the same.
As to the things you are concerned about as concerning hooking up with an ex-cultist, I don't know you at all and how certain things trip you up or do not but I can certainly support you in your attempt to work through these things in your own life and wish you the best.
I think you already know, any two of us may have the exact opposite experience as to what works for us. I certainly wish them the best and a good end as they figure these things out for themselves either way.
Two people who were once in the same cult but now are out of that cult may get along very well because they may have very many things in common. They are against the same things....and for the same things. You said you only had one pair to look at, but that's because you've only been here since April of '09 - -or at least that's what your profile says.
I know of at least 3 couples who've come from these forums (perhaps Waydale too which came before this one). They are fine, these couples, and as far as can be understood from what they post they are completely normal.
... i'm talking about going back to reconnect with people you've haven't seen in years or to hook up with people you didn't know then but have since met because of here or some other ex cult place.
That pretty much describes why I'm here. I WANT to reconnect with people I haven't seen in years.
I can't change my past. My TWI experience shaped my life, and still influences it. I knew people then who impacted my life - most for better, some for worse. They are still important to me.
By having shared experiences with people, we can help each other get past any of the bad 'stuff'. Depending on when you were 'in' and when you got 'out' will have a bearing on what an individual's experiences are. Those experiences can become the common ground to build upon.
Relationships are the only thing we really have in this world.
I'm married to someone who was in TWI but we were not in at the same time. My husband was a poster on Waydale and went by the name "Mathman".
Of course, I was and always will be, ChasUFarley.
We're probably one of those normal couples that Krys referred to...... bahahahahahaha - not. (Forgive me, I have a sick sense of humor and don't take myself that seriously...)
I started posting on Waydale in 2000, just days after leaving TWI. I had been in the chat rooms, etc., as early as 1999, while I was in, but just didn't have the nerve to post until I had truly left. I had found Waydale because LCM had told Fellowship Coordinators not to go on the internet, which screamed, "I'm hiding something!" to me... I had mentally and emotionally checked out of TWI about a year prior to leaving but was scared to death to cut the ties.
Anyhow learned there were a few posters in my area in New England, and one of them was Mathman. He was in from about 1982-1988. I was in from 1988 - 2000. Our paths never crossed in 1998 - we were in around the same time for just a couple of months at that time.
Now we're married, homeowners, two children, etc. - the American Dream, if you will. Like other posters have said it's nice not having to explain things about my past to my spouse. I also find that the longer I'm out and removed from that old life, the less I need to talk about it. I now look for opportunities to help other people distance themselves from that life - even it's just to listen and sympathize - or to share what's worked for me. I'm not on this board as much as I use to be simply because I'm pretty busy these days. I do believe that people here on this board should be given respect when sharing about their situation - and I don't tolerate anyone saying they're not "real" victims.
We also have a network of friends - his and hers - that are also former TWI members. Some of them have moved on to other organizations or spin-offs, others have moved on to other religions, and some are even agnostic or atheist now. No matter - we love them and don't look down our noses at their diversity. As long as they're respectful of us and our beliefs, they'll get the same back in return. It's never been a problem.
And please, don't think of yourself as being "more fouled" than others... you're seeking help - professional help, I assume, and that's more than I can say for many folks who need it but are too ashamed to get it. Good for you! (I mean that sincerely.)
thanks for taking the time to tell me some of your thoughts and experiences because it helps me to see things a different way from how i see them, and i've been thinking about this a lot today and how i like it here because i don't know anybody and don't have to know anybody but i get to talk about it all with people that knew about it all, which means that i don't have to have a relationship with anybody to get to talk about it all, which means that it is "safe" for me, and me being safe is something i haven't done very well so i get very different when it comes to "real life" people, which means that when i try to think about "real life" relationships and people from the way international i just break down into tears and usually have a full blown panic attack. does that make sense? and yes i am getting professional help. but i think i am probably a bit more "fouled" in some way because it was mostly all i knew and i was raised with it all and it defined who i was to the point that i am having to make myself all over again from the very beginning, and i even have to re-parent myself in many areas and some really intense stuff that sometimes i have to do in the hospital for a couple of days so that i won't hurt myself when i do them because it can be very scary stuff and brings up stuff i don't like to think about at all and i have been known to bang my head against the wall until i knock myself out and stuff like that, so i have to be watched when i do some of the work. so now that you all know i'm a real nut job you also know that this is scary for me and i am asking these things because i really am trying to understand how people "move on".
I don't know, brainfixed. To me, any time you find genuine friendship, love, it's a gift. Quite the opposite of the fake friendship and love we found in cults.
About a decade or so after she left TWI, my wife was diagnosed with the debilitating form of bipolar mood disorder and a whole potpourri of other mental illnesses. Not because of her involvement with TWI. We were acquainted with each other in TWI, but we didn't get married until several years after we had each left separately. After my wife was diagnosed, I became aware of the fact that I also have the milder form of bipolar mood disorder. We have both been involved with the National Alliance on Mental Illness for a number of years. We have come to recognize that mental illnesses are brain disorders that may have environmental triggers.
If you are deliberately seeking safe places to deal with your problems, then I admire you for your wisdom and your courage.
We try to see the individual first, not the illness. My bipolar mood disorder is no more a moral failing on my part than my diabetes, high blood pressure or the weakness of my abdominal muscles that led to a massive hernia.
You are a precious person, brainfixed, and no more "fouled" than the rest of us. It's just that some people's problems are easier to see than other people's. There are some people who look like they have it all together that I wouuldn't trade places with for a million dollars. The only people who don't have really serious problems are the people we don't know very well.
I say God bless you, brainfixed, and the best of luck to you!
thanks again for the input. i had to breathe and remind myself i was "safe", but i didn't bang my head against the wall or anything else like that so the panic wasn't so bad this time or i'm "moving on" a little bit or something. this is really the first time i've ever talked about all this with people that were there and that might "trigger" things and i tell you it's as hard as i thought it would be but it's also not as hard as i thought it would, but i think that's because it's not face to face and i know all i have to do is turn off the computer and nobody here can come get me or interfere with my life in any way or anything like that. i still can't comprehend how i could be around anybody that ever had anything to do with the way international in a face to face situation without totally freaking out, and i sitll can't even begin to understand any comfort in having a relationship with anybody that might "trigger" me. maybe some day?
When I first left (got kicked out), life was terribly difficult. I didn't trust any kind of non-Way person (especially Christians); and there were no Way people at all, anywhere near. So there was no-one to talk to. I finally (after some years) managed to hook up with some ex-Wayfers (which was terrifying but the only place I found anything like safe). It was reading a particular book, and a very long chat with one of these ex-Wayfers, that really "healed" me. I cannot remember anything discussed. It was just as if a load of guilt, shame, abject misery ... just dissolved.
But now, I don't like to be around those people. Not that I don't like them, or don't believe they sincerely, honestly, genuinely, want to help. It's just that I've moved on a long way and what they believe and teach sounds like the same-old, same-old. It's not, but I value input from elsewhere now. And I recognise how much my own understanding and relationship with God has changed. Grown.
The book (and it's highly recommended here at the Cafe) is "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" by David Johnson & Jeff Van Vonderen. Subtitle: "Recognizing and escaping spiritual manipulation and false spiritual authority within the church." It's very readable. Eye-opening.
You might find the book helpful. As you were raised all your life by Wayfers, it may help you differently from how it helps someone who came to - any abusive church or relationship - later, when they already had some idea of life. You can get the book from Amazon, if you can't find it in a bookshop near you.
Meantime, spending time here might help you see how many of us here have moved on and gone in different directions. If being here helps you explore some of your head-stuff, stick around. If it hurts you, stay away for a while. If anyone abuses you, report them to the Moderators.
I married someone who was never in TWI. For me, it's a breath of fresh air. I don't think about TWI every day like I used to. My life has new perspective now, not rehasing old thoughts and memories. Plus, I've explained enough to my husband that I don't have to repeat what things like ROA mean. My husband "gets" my involvement in TWI and has been a tremendous support and help to my new path of life.
Its been so long since I posted here, I almost forgot my login information. I am an ex-wayfer married to an ex-wayfer and we met here at Greasespot. I didn't marry my husband because he was ex TWI, but I did meet him because he was ex TWI. TWI really has very little to do with our lives together, other than the occassional insider joke that someone who had never been involved in TWI would never get.
We met in the chatroom. Our background with TWI was the common ground that caused us to become introduced, but it was the common ground we have in so very many other areas of our lives that drew us together and keep us together. He is, without a doubt, the best friend I have ever had.
I married my hubby when we were both involved in The Way International.. Our paths kept crossing, over the course of my involvement in TWI.. which is pretty amazing when you realize it kept happening while we were both doing vastly different things.. HE with Corps and me just as a lowely leaf in twig and as a WOW.
There are some things I have learned through out our marriage about me and about him... because we left early on and had not had children yet.. we managed to leave behind a lot of the way internationals teachings and belief systems.
But what I was attracted to in my spouse was his kind, genlte loving soul. It was a part of his intrinsic makeup.
and I can say with certainty that peoples general personalities do not change from being in a cult. IF some one is a sadistic evil bastard... That is who they are and they will be that if they are in a cult or just your boss at work.
You have some issues related to childhood abuse, exaserbated by the cult issue.. I have the childhood abuse issue but my abuse had nothing to do with The Way International... and you need to understand that whether your parents were involved with The Way International or not they would have abused you.
When you have been on here longer you will find that some people did not abuse their kids even though they were in the Way International.. and some did. IT is the part of your life that will always haunt you... My therapist told me I needed to accept the reality of who my parents were to be able to move on in my life.. and when I finally came to the place where I could see who my parents really were and accept them with all their flaws(This doesnot mean I had to be in contact with them... just understand what they did)
AS to choosing some one who doesn't abuse you.. all I can say is you will have to continue to try to have relationships with people. you can not wall yourself off from everyone.. IT just doesn't help you get better, but you will find that as time goes on the more you get to know new people the faster you will get at spotting red flags. and in spotting those you will find your self less and less likely to get involved with some one who is not right for you.
Also I find that it is best to avoid situations that will upset me... I do not watch movies about childhood abuse or alcoholism... They always will trigger me and I avoid stories where it is a theme.. and I avoid people that exhibit the same type of behavior as my step dad.
Whether that person was involved in The Way international or not will not be as important as that they love, respect, understand, and enjoy you. And that you feel and treat them the same.
Most of the people I met in The Way International were very nice but there was a small number of them that were really awfull and a few more that were not very nice... but the bulk of them were kind... certainly misled but kind..
Only you can determine if some one is right as a companion or friend for yourself.. and guidlines are really just that guidlines, there to help you find your way toward more healthy relationships.
Hugs and know that you are a wise and wonderful and amazing person. You always post the most thought provocative questions... They help me understand more about my involvment with The Way International
True confessions: I fell totally, hopelessly, head-over-heels in love with a Way person. Her religious beliefs and the fact that she had been in a cult were totally irrelevant to me.
And, if our life situations were ever to allow it, I would most certainly marry her.
this helps a whole lot more than you can guess. and leafytwiglet you ought to get paid for what you do! there's a lot of comfort here everybody and it helps a whole lot and i thank you for it all and i'm glad for it all. thank you.
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Shellon
One example probably shouldn't set the stage for all. Any relationship takes an incredible amount of work, maintenance, communication and willingness to hang in there to do all that.
Having something in common from the beginning isn't a bad thing, even while it does have the potential to make things tougher, it can also have the potential to provide a good base. It's up to the couple.
I might see where Martindale hooking up with a gal who had only had PFAL could cause massive strife, I get that part of your points.
But like any relationship, twi related or not, both have to be 100% aware of the others' "issues" (I'm sick of that word) and deal. There is also the added good of some hearty discussions at the supper table sharing memories of all that stuff. "Remember the time Wierwille said _____ "and some great and necessary laughter to follow or perhaps some healing from being able to have someone that gets it. That's pretty valuable and easier in perhaps another dynamic where the other person just can't relate.
I don't think it's as simple as putting on ones dance card "if you were ever in a cult, I won't do the two step with ya".
Love doesn't come around very often and why not take it if it does, if both are ready for love and willing to do what it takes? And we can't judge a couple from one experience, as well, I don't think.
Hopefully if a couple are rockin it like they're "supposed" to, it's not about twi or any other such prior involvements, but rather about the two of them figuring it out privately and personally and if they do choose to offer something more public, it's done with an amount of tact and respect to each other, before the community with which they share.
Communication.
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geisha779
Well said Shellon. . . . For me, it could not have worked out better. . . . hubby and I work through our TWI related issues together. . .it isn't the focal point of our relationship. . . . it never really was. . . . a healthy dose of hormones ruled :) . . . . we were baaaad Wayfers.
I am just glad he ""gets" it, doesn't judge me when I am figuring it out. . . . supports me and gives me the space to change my mind when I want or need to. . . . and it has never hurt that he brings me coffee every morning.
All in all. . . . . it probably serves to make us a bit more forgiving and patient with each other.
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Tzaia
I think you're overthinking things.
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brainfixed
i admit that i've only got to see one brief moment of one brief relationship and that was a moment on a message board to boot, but i've seen other things in "real life" too that i relate to the ex cult thing, like in my therapy and classes they recommend that i don't get into any relationship for at least two years after an abusive relationship and after i've had intensive therapy and classes. even then they recommend that i keep a journal of what i'm attracted to in that other person and talk in classes and groups about why and let the others ask me the hard questions. also they recommend background checks and to talk to former partners of the other person so that if the other person has an abusive past then they recommend that the other person go through the therapy and classes for at least two years before a relationship is started. because this stuff gets into your head in a way that you don't even know and you can't know until you're in the middle of a situation and then probably it's too late to stop and analyze it, and then you're probably doing the same old thing you've always done and the "circle" just doesn't get broken. and i know having been in the way international is not different at all because i've had to also deal with having been in the way international as well as having been in too many abusive relationships (for me it was like the chicken and the egg because i never could tell which came first).
i get that communication and working at it is important, but without long-term professional help i don't understand how it would work for the long-term unless it becomes a repeat performance of the relationships found before. and that makes me wonder if that isn't the basis for what people are looking for when hooking up with ex cultists. i don't know and that's why i'm asking the questions. it really scares me because to me it's like putting two ex cons together. the law doesn't allow it because the law knows what's going to happen. and even if it isn't marriage or friendship we're talking about, then it's a church or a "fellowship" or a "research ministry" and there's plenty of examples of those going sour because they're all the same dna of the father that spawned them.
and i get that love can cover a multitude of "sins" but i also get "what's love got to do with it?" because the way international started out loving people up and then look what happened. maybe i'm just paranoid or something.
oh and i'm not talking about staying with those you were with while in the way international. i don't mean to break up marriages and relationships and friendships. i'm talking about going back to reconnect with people you've haven't seen in years or to hook up with people you didn't know then but have since met because of here or some other ex cult place.
and maybe i'm just more "fouled" than others.
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cheranne
Remember Love Connection?
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George Aar
Well, it's not like relationships without the "cult" baggage are any more likely to survive. So, what the hell?
I think the only really logical or safe thing to do is to forego relationships entirely and plan on a life of self-abuse. Uh un...
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Bolshevik
It's nice not having to explain to someone what an ROA was or who lcm was or why I occasionally go berserk.
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JeffSjo
Interesting consideration Brainy.
I have seen couples that had similar tendencies getting pulled into all kinds of bad things over the years. Any ex-wayfers that happen to be together may or may not happen to fall into old and less than healthy patterns.
If a couple happened to have a snootfull and were the types of people that could accidentally fall into an adult version of provocation and belittling others they may be ex-wayfers or just living out their unfortunatly already established habits of naturally gravitating toward their old behavior of being the ruthless psycho chearleader and the ex-nerd with a chip on his shoulder.
Either way, IMO, the thoughtless and jerky behavior may look just about the same.
As to the things you are concerned about as concerning hooking up with an ex-cultist, I don't know you at all and how certain things trip you up or do not but I can certainly support you in your attempt to work through these things in your own life and wish you the best.
I think you already know, any two of us may have the exact opposite experience as to what works for us. I certainly wish them the best and a good end as they figure these things out for themselves either way.
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krys
Two people who were once in the same cult but now are out of that cult may get along very well because they may have very many things in common. They are against the same things....and for the same things. You said you only had one pair to look at, but that's because you've only been here since April of '09 - -or at least that's what your profile says.
I know of at least 3 couples who've come from these forums (perhaps Waydale too which came before this one). They are fine, these couples, and as far as can be understood from what they post they are completely normal.
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Kevin Fallon
That pretty much describes why I'm here. I WANT to reconnect with people I haven't seen in years.
I can't change my past. My TWI experience shaped my life, and still influences it. I knew people then who impacted my life - most for better, some for worse. They are still important to me.
By having shared experiences with people, we can help each other get past any of the bad 'stuff'. Depending on when you were 'in' and when you got 'out' will have a bearing on what an individual's experiences are. Those experiences can become the common ground to build upon.
Relationships are the only thing we really have in this world.
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ChasUFarley
Hi there, Brainy.
I'm married to someone who was in TWI but we were not in at the same time. My husband was a poster on Waydale and went by the name "Mathman".
Of course, I was and always will be, ChasUFarley.
We're probably one of those normal couples that Krys referred to...... bahahahahahaha - not. (Forgive me, I have a sick sense of humor and don't take myself that seriously...)
I started posting on Waydale in 2000, just days after leaving TWI. I had been in the chat rooms, etc., as early as 1999, while I was in, but just didn't have the nerve to post until I had truly left. I had found Waydale because LCM had told Fellowship Coordinators not to go on the internet, which screamed, "I'm hiding something!" to me... I had mentally and emotionally checked out of TWI about a year prior to leaving but was scared to death to cut the ties.
Anyhow learned there were a few posters in my area in New England, and one of them was Mathman. He was in from about 1982-1988. I was in from 1988 - 2000. Our paths never crossed in 1998 - we were in around the same time for just a couple of months at that time.
Now we're married, homeowners, two children, etc. - the American Dream, if you will. Like other posters have said it's nice not having to explain things about my past to my spouse. I also find that the longer I'm out and removed from that old life, the less I need to talk about it. I now look for opportunities to help other people distance themselves from that life - even it's just to listen and sympathize - or to share what's worked for me. I'm not on this board as much as I use to be simply because I'm pretty busy these days. I do believe that people here on this board should be given respect when sharing about their situation - and I don't tolerate anyone saying they're not "real" victims.
We also have a network of friends - his and hers - that are also former TWI members. Some of them have moved on to other organizations or spin-offs, others have moved on to other religions, and some are even agnostic or atheist now. No matter - we love them and don't look down our noses at their diversity. As long as they're respectful of us and our beliefs, they'll get the same back in return. It's never been a problem.
And please, don't think of yourself as being "more fouled" than others... you're seeking help - professional help, I assume, and that's more than I can say for many folks who need it but are too ashamed to get it. Good for you! (I mean that sincerely.)
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brainfixed
thanks for taking the time to tell me some of your thoughts and experiences because it helps me to see things a different way from how i see them, and i've been thinking about this a lot today and how i like it here because i don't know anybody and don't have to know anybody but i get to talk about it all with people that knew about it all, which means that i don't have to have a relationship with anybody to get to talk about it all, which means that it is "safe" for me, and me being safe is something i haven't done very well so i get very different when it comes to "real life" people, which means that when i try to think about "real life" relationships and people from the way international i just break down into tears and usually have a full blown panic attack. does that make sense? and yes i am getting professional help. but i think i am probably a bit more "fouled" in some way because it was mostly all i knew and i was raised with it all and it defined who i was to the point that i am having to make myself all over again from the very beginning, and i even have to re-parent myself in many areas and some really intense stuff that sometimes i have to do in the hospital for a couple of days so that i won't hurt myself when i do them because it can be very scary stuff and brings up stuff i don't like to think about at all and i have been known to bang my head against the wall until i knock myself out and stuff like that, so i have to be watched when i do some of the work. so now that you all know i'm a real nut job you also know that this is scary for me and i am asking these things because i really am trying to understand how people "move on".
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chockfull
I don't know, brainfixed. To me, any time you find genuine friendship, love, it's a gift. Quite the opposite of the fake friendship and love we found in cults.
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Steve Lortz
About a decade or so after she left TWI, my wife was diagnosed with the debilitating form of bipolar mood disorder and a whole potpourri of other mental illnesses. Not because of her involvement with TWI. We were acquainted with each other in TWI, but we didn't get married until several years after we had each left separately. After my wife was diagnosed, I became aware of the fact that I also have the milder form of bipolar mood disorder. We have both been involved with the National Alliance on Mental Illness for a number of years. We have come to recognize that mental illnesses are brain disorders that may have environmental triggers.
If you are deliberately seeking safe places to deal with your problems, then I admire you for your wisdom and your courage.
We try to see the individual first, not the illness. My bipolar mood disorder is no more a moral failing on my part than my diabetes, high blood pressure or the weakness of my abdominal muscles that led to a massive hernia.
You are a precious person, brainfixed, and no more "fouled" than the rest of us. It's just that some people's problems are easier to see than other people's. There are some people who look like they have it all together that I wouuldn't trade places with for a million dollars. The only people who don't have really serious problems are the people we don't know very well.
I say God bless you, brainfixed, and the best of luck to you!
Love,
Steve
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Shellon
Amen
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brainfixed
thanks again for the input. i had to breathe and remind myself i was "safe", but i didn't bang my head against the wall or anything else like that so the panic wasn't so bad this time or i'm "moving on" a little bit or something. this is really the first time i've ever talked about all this with people that were there and that might "trigger" things and i tell you it's as hard as i thought it would be but it's also not as hard as i thought it would, but i think that's because it's not face to face and i know all i have to do is turn off the computer and nobody here can come get me or interfere with my life in any way or anything like that. i still can't comprehend how i could be around anybody that ever had anything to do with the way international in a face to face situation without totally freaking out, and i sitll can't even begin to understand any comfort in having a relationship with anybody that might "trigger" me. maybe some day?
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Twinky
You will chart your own course, brainfixed.
When I first left (got kicked out), life was terribly difficult. I didn't trust any kind of non-Way person (especially Christians); and there were no Way people at all, anywhere near. So there was no-one to talk to. I finally (after some years) managed to hook up with some ex-Wayfers (which was terrifying but the only place I found anything like safe). It was reading a particular book, and a very long chat with one of these ex-Wayfers, that really "healed" me. I cannot remember anything discussed. It was just as if a load of guilt, shame, abject misery ... just dissolved.
But now, I don't like to be around those people. Not that I don't like them, or don't believe they sincerely, honestly, genuinely, want to help. It's just that I've moved on a long way and what they believe and teach sounds like the same-old, same-old. It's not, but I value input from elsewhere now. And I recognise how much my own understanding and relationship with God has changed. Grown.
The book (and it's highly recommended here at the Cafe) is "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" by David Johnson & Jeff Van Vonderen. Subtitle: "Recognizing and escaping spiritual manipulation and false spiritual authority within the church." It's very readable. Eye-opening.
You might find the book helpful. As you were raised all your life by Wayfers, it may help you differently from how it helps someone who came to - any abusive church or relationship - later, when they already had some idea of life. You can get the book from Amazon, if you can't find it in a bookshop near you.
Meantime, spending time here might help you see how many of us here have moved on and gone in different directions. If being here helps you explore some of your head-stuff, stick around. If it hurts you, stay away for a while. If anyone abuses you, report them to the Moderators.
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Ham
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Nottawayfer
I married someone who was never in TWI. For me, it's a breath of fresh air. I don't think about TWI every day like I used to. My life has new perspective now, not rehasing old thoughts and memories. Plus, I've explained enough to my husband that I don't have to repeat what things like ROA mean. My husband "gets" my involvement in TWI and has been a tremendous support and help to my new path of life.
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Abigail
Its been so long since I posted here, I almost forgot my login information. I am an ex-wayfer married to an ex-wayfer and we met here at Greasespot. I didn't marry my husband because he was ex TWI, but I did meet him because he was ex TWI. TWI really has very little to do with our lives together, other than the occassional insider joke that someone who had never been involved in TWI would never get.
We met in the chatroom. Our background with TWI was the common ground that caused us to become introduced, but it was the common ground we have in so very many other areas of our lives that drew us together and keep us together. He is, without a doubt, the best friend I have ever had.
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leafytwiglet
Hi Brainy Sending hugs your way.
I married my hubby when we were both involved in The Way International.. Our paths kept crossing, over the course of my involvement in TWI.. which is pretty amazing when you realize it kept happening while we were both doing vastly different things.. HE with Corps and me just as a lowely leaf in twig and as a WOW.
There are some things I have learned through out our marriage about me and about him... because we left early on and had not had children yet.. we managed to leave behind a lot of the way internationals teachings and belief systems.
But what I was attracted to in my spouse was his kind, genlte loving soul. It was a part of his intrinsic makeup.
and I can say with certainty that peoples general personalities do not change from being in a cult. IF some one is a sadistic evil bastard... That is who they are and they will be that if they are in a cult or just your boss at work.
You have some issues related to childhood abuse, exaserbated by the cult issue.. I have the childhood abuse issue but my abuse had nothing to do with The Way International... and you need to understand that whether your parents were involved with The Way International or not they would have abused you.
When you have been on here longer you will find that some people did not abuse their kids even though they were in the Way International.. and some did. IT is the part of your life that will always haunt you... My therapist told me I needed to accept the reality of who my parents were to be able to move on in my life.. and when I finally came to the place where I could see who my parents really were and accept them with all their flaws(This doesnot mean I had to be in contact with them... just understand what they did)
AS to choosing some one who doesn't abuse you.. all I can say is you will have to continue to try to have relationships with people. you can not wall yourself off from everyone.. IT just doesn't help you get better, but you will find that as time goes on the more you get to know new people the faster you will get at spotting red flags. and in spotting those you will find your self less and less likely to get involved with some one who is not right for you.
Also I find that it is best to avoid situations that will upset me... I do not watch movies about childhood abuse or alcoholism... They always will trigger me and I avoid stories where it is a theme.. and I avoid people that exhibit the same type of behavior as my step dad.
Whether that person was involved in The Way international or not will not be as important as that they love, respect, understand, and enjoy you. And that you feel and treat them the same.
Most of the people I met in The Way International were very nice but there was a small number of them that were really awfull and a few more that were not very nice... but the bulk of them were kind... certainly misled but kind..
Only you can determine if some one is right as a companion or friend for yourself.. and guidlines are really just that guidlines, there to help you find your way toward more healthy relationships.
Hugs and know that you are a wise and wonderful and amazing person. You always post the most thought provocative questions... They help me understand more about my involvment with The Way International
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nandon
im with an ex-way person.
why?
because i love the person, regardless what their religious history is.
for me, it's that simple.
maybe it's different for others.
love is individual.
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soul searcher
True confessions: I fell totally, hopelessly, head-over-heels in love with a Way person. Her religious beliefs and the fact that she had been in a cult were totally irrelevant to me.
And, if our life situations were ever to allow it, I would most certainly marry her.
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brainfixed
this helps a whole lot more than you can guess. and leafytwiglet you ought to get paid for what you do! there's a lot of comfort here everybody and it helps a whole lot and i thank you for it all and i'm glad for it all. thank you.
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