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The Way of today isn't anything like Martindale's way


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I think being the wife of the president is her lifetime assignment, no matter who the president it.. :mooner:

OMG, you must be right :o

Well said Belle, learning to reconsider things from outside of twi perspective was one of the most difficult challenges I have faced.

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Sometimes I think that what this LCM guy was missing in his life was someone to teach him some manners. A good beating somewhere along the way might have accomplished that.

Yep. He used to talk a lot of smack about whooping a$$ and then shield himself with armed safety officers. Nice eh?

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i cannot speak for what other fellowships would do but if 2 [people]that were former way believers came to fellowship ... i would talk to them outside and ask them if they remember what THE WORD says about [their behavior]. if they said yes they know what THE WORD says BUT they want to continue doing their [whatever it is]thing i would politely tell them that anyone who refuses to do as THE WORD instructs will not be welcome in my home.

this applies to someone showing up who goes around doing drugs,stealing,etc that doesnt want to live according to THE WORD.

i would not yell at them , i would not condemn them i would calmly tell them that if they wanted to change and needed help i would help. i have witnessed to a number of [people]since i started going to fellowship in 1980 and all of them wanted to continue their [current] lifestyle. if they showed up wanting deliverance i would help them.

...i hope i answered you question. standing against the [] lifestyle deosnt not mean that you mistreat people. you dont go verbally abusing someone cause they are homo.

I am not sure if Shiftthis is referring only to ex Way believers; I think he has expanded his comments to include all people he has witnessed to. Originally the bit in square brackets referred to homosexuals (because that's the question I asked him) but later I asked him about other types of "off the Word" behavior. Surely this type of response should be even across all kinds of off-the-Word behavior (for want of a better expression)

People, especially newbies, don't necessarily show up "wanting deliverance." They might just be aware that they need something different in their lives, but want to carry on with current sexual behavior, drink, drugs, etc.

What if an unmarried (hetero) couple - ex Wayfers or otherwise - turns up, happy, living together but want to get to know God ... but that's fornication (premarital sex) [not sure what the Way's view on that is nowadays, once they said it was okay, but I think that's change - let's not get too distracted] and therefore prohibited according to OT - but they don't want to stop living together.

Would they be turned away and not allowed in the fellowship because they "didn't want deliverance" from the sin of fornication?

Would Shiftthis turn away people perceived to be prideful, mean-mouthed, foul-mouthed?

Oh gosh. I'm so glad I've been delivered...from harsh and judgmental "tell 'em twice and then forget 'em" thinking.

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Would they be turned away and not allowed in the fellowship because they "didn't want deliverance" from the sin of fornication?

Would Shiftthis turn away people perceived to be prideful, mean-mouthed, foul-mouthed?

Oh gosh. I'm so glad I've been delivered...from harsh and judgmental "tell 'em twice and then forget 'em" thinking.

What about shiftthis?

Deliverance from pride?.....

Deliverance from "casting stones?".....

In coming to the Savior from sin.......go and sin no more.

<_<

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Sometimes I think that what this LCM guy was missing in his life was someone to teach him some manners. A good beating somewhere along the way might have accomplished that.

Thats one of those double meaning things..Im seeing that differently than I think you are intending it....but it still could be true..

Ive often wondered if beatings when he was a kid may have contributed to his rage and helped make him into the screaming control freak he was...

I have no evidence for that--just conjecture, but abused children can grow to be abusive adults-and whatever it was-he sure had a boatload of unresolved issues that he hid very well

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Thats one of those double meaning things..Im seeing that differently than I think you are intending it....but it still could be true..

Ive often wondered if beatings when he was a kid may have contributed to his rage and helped make him into the screaming control freak he was...

I have no evidence for that--just conjecture, but abused children can grow to be abusive adults-and whatever it was-he sure had a boatload of unresolved issues that he hid very well

I thought about what you said above while I was typing. Since I don't personally know LCM (or any other person who was ever in TWI, except one) it's possible that he was a guy who was compensating for a childhood in which he was abused or bullied. I have no way of knowing.

At any rate, going from what I've read about him on these boards and the stuff my ex-Way friend told me...I would say, yeah, he's a guy who needs his azz kicked.

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Thats one of those double meaning things..Im seeing that differently than I think you are intending it....but it still could be true..

Ive often wondered if beatings when he was a kid may have contributed to his rage and helped make him into the screaming control freak he was...

I have no evidence for that--just conjecture, but abused children can grow to be abusive adults-and whatever it was-he sure had a boatload of unresolved issues that he hid very well

beatings? . . . just listen to PFAL . . . think for a minute . . . that will drive you crazy

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The one who REALLY needed his azz kicked was VP. I suspect he knew that someone was likely to try. That's why he surrounded himself with armed thugs and was known to dispatch goons to quiet any opposition,

Edited by waysider
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Hang in there shift. After you answer my question (if you do) I am going to leave you alone.

Shift must have had to get to fellowship.

just lots of stuff to do. i stay really buisy. i dont mind you asking me questions,if i did i wouldnt reply or be on this forum.

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beatings? . . . just listen to PFAL . . . think for a minute . . . that will drive you crazy

its possible but i grew up with a biological male parent<(father) who was a mean violent az hole and became really mean and violent when he turned into a drunk when i was about 10. he resenetd having us 3 boys and used to give my mom hell for it. i went through a lotta verbal tortue and physical abuse while my younger brothers were left alone. i was really messed up mentally and it took a long time of putting THE WORD on and believing GOD to heal me mentally. i had some fellowship coordinators ask me why i come cause they didnt see me growing and that i was kinda strange. a few tried to help BUT ithis was something that only i with GODS help could do. i was invited to move in with a very kind state coordinator and his family about 9 years ago and the man really took the time to help with what he could do and allowed me to time to finish healing mentally. one thing i never did was be unkind and mistreat others like my dad treated me. i NEVER want to be like my dad was. this leader told me that the reason it took me so long to come out of all that was that no one had ever taken the time to help me with what they could help with. i am answering 2 things here one is the time it takes people to overcome and the other is that just casue someone was treated badly at home growing up isnt and excuse or reason to treat others that way. when i was a teenager some of my friends wanted to have my dad arrested for the way they say him treat me and some quit coming over cause they couldnt stand to see me treated badly. a couple said they wanted to beat the hell out of my dad. there wernt any abuse laws on the books back then like we have today. my mom was gonna have my dad arrested one night after he started hitting me for out of a drunken rage but i told her not to cause of what my dad might do after posting bail. my dad appologized to me a while back fo what he did but all he will ever be to me is the biological parent. when my mom died about 10 years ago my dad got remarried to a retired coworker and i thi nk she had some serous talk with him about what she found out about our relationship. i think martindale got a powertrip and thought he could do what he wanted and did. my leadership appologized to me for the way i treated under the m regiem. i have known a few people that grew up in loving families that turned out to be trash. my younger brother never suffered at the hands of my dad but grew up to be a no account druggie and crook. he came to fellowship for a while but said he would rather party and do his own thing. he died in 03 of lung,stomach,panchreas cancer and he mainly smoke lots of dope over the years. he robbed a gas station i managed once and stole stuff from me. he was treated well by my dad. i am a sinner but i choose to live according to what THE WORD says. when i am taught something i do like they did in the book of acts and search the bible to see if what is taught is so. if you dont then your taking somebodys word for it and i dont do that. i hope this answers the questions about time to grow and change and that being abused doesnt mean you will be an abuser. i stated earlier that not everybody wants THE WORD but its not up to me to detrermine that i have seen people come for awhile never to be seen again and if i didnt want to know GOD i wouldnt read the bible or go to fellowship. a go to fellowship to hear THE WORD , manifestations,and we got some really cool people in our fellowship and i am the oddball of the bunch. yeah i am a little strange but i like who i am. GOD BLESS YA Edited by shiftthis
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The one who REALLY needed his azz kicked was VP. I suspect he knew that someone was likely to try. That's why he surrounded himself with armed thugs and was known to dispatch goons to quiet any opposition,

THE WORD says that there "shall be" false ministers that shall come in amoung you(us). they tried to do in Jesus but he would escape them. John 10:10 the thief cometh not but for to steal,and to kill,and to destroy. if your in a high profile position and need body gaurds go for it.

What about shiftthis?

Deliverance from pride?.....

Deliverance from "casting stones?".....

In coming to the Savior from sin.......go and sin no more.

<_<

it all depends on the situation when it comes from tell them twice and what are you telling them twice. i run a construction crew and sometimes i have fired a guy for refusing to wear a hardhat that he was told to wear by the job superintendant. if i didnt fire the guy on the spot the super would call my boss who would fire the guy and warn me to run the job or i will be fired. i told a guy probably 5 or more times to do the job a certain way until he finally did it that way but it was because i could tell the guy was a real slow learner and not seeing what he could get away with. i have had k nown gangbangers,hells angels,other bikers,and riff raff on my crews. if they do the job right,dont cause trouble, dont steal, they have a job and if not they are fired. if i dont do my job i will be fired and if i allow the job to get screwed up the company is fired. we have ben hired to finish a job that another co contractor messed up. people pay money to for a building for their store and it has a deadline and WE work for those people. its no different if someone wants to cause trouble in fellowship. i wouldnt want to be st fellowship or work or a friends house if someone was causing trouble. i could cause some really bad trouble if i wanted to BUT i choose not do that stuff just like i choose not to rob banks or embezzle money or other bad stuff. would you like it if i came to your house and started causing problems ? depending on the situation would determine weather or not i told someone to leave or just gave a warning. the difference with me is that i know better because i know the word. there aint no excuse for me causing problems for anyone and no i am NOT perfect BUT i know better. if you instruct a pilot not to land in thick fog but the pilot decides to land anyway people die as in what happened to the polish president and the rest of those people. its late and i hope i have answered this for you. GOOD NIGHT !!!

Edited by shiftthis
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Shift, I really don't expect you to catch up on all the questions that came your way. I guess we can get a little excited when the dialog starts with someone who is still in the way ministry. I can speculate (probably accurately) from your posts that you are a sincere person who is doing the best with what you know.

For a variety of reasons (and many are listed here on Grease Spot) I am irreconcilably departed from the way ministry. I don't expect you to take my word for it anymore than I believed other's accounts when I was still "in" and lurking on Grease Spot. Lurked here since 2005 or so. From reading your posts I can see the same judgmental methods I used to support and employ myself. I used to expect people to qualify themselves as wanting the word by how quickly they became excited and obedient to what I told them. Shift, that's just plain wrong. The Bible directs the Christian Church to hold forth the Word of Life, to work the Ministry of Reconciliation, to walk in love towards them that are without. God is love and that (agape) love is simple in it's intricate beauty - give. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son. We are to judge nothing before the time, we are to let Jesus Christ the righteous judge have his day in the future. Obviously, these judgments are specific in their reservations since we have to make judgments between right and wrong to live day to day.

We see in the gospels that Jesus definitely spent more time with those who wanted to learn all they could, he also handled his adversaries with candor. However, there are so many examples where he extended himself to vile people (vile according to Old Testament law and their societies standards) and really helped them. I could name situation after situation.

Then we get into the church epistles where Christ is the active head of the body, directing the affairs of the Church. I challenge you to check your understanding of the book of Romans. Specifically the concept of two natures. Sin nature and new nature, old versus new. If you read Romans and think that the old is obliterated now I would re-read it. For example note the contrast in Romans 7 vs Romans 8. Yet the two chapters should likely be one.

My point? As Christians we are not to judge. We are to remember that we are saved by grace, that we were the lowest of the low - dead in trespasses and sins. If you understand the structure of Romans - that there is an outer section that deals with sins we commit, and an inner section that deals with the root cause, the sin nature, then you will come to understand that there is no difference between you, a homosexual, me, or anyone else. From that perspective of humility, to understand that all of us are worthy of judgment, then hopefully you would find it in yourself to love the un-lovable. To reach out with all the love in your heart and give others the chance to know Christ without placing the way ministry's stipulations on how it should be done.

I will refrain from going any further. You are welcome to private message me and I would be happy to talk in more detail. BTW - I have no interest in you leaving the ministry you love no more that I have an interest in keeping my Catholic neighbors from attending mass.

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Shift, I really don't expect you to catch up on all the questions that came your way. I guess we can get a little excited when the dialog starts with someone who is still in the way ministry. I can speculate (probably accurately) from your posts that you are a sincere person who is doing the best with what you know.

For a variety of reasons (and many are listed here on Grease Spot) I am irreconcilably departed from the way ministry. I don't expect you to take my word for it anymore than I believed other's accounts when I was still "in" and lurking on Grease Spot. Lurked here since 2005 or so. From reading your posts I can see the same judgmental methods I used to support and employ myself. I used to expect people to qualify themselves as wanting the word by how quickly they became excited and obedient to what I told them. Shift, that's just plain wrong. The Bible directs the Christian Church to hold forth the Word of Life, to work the Ministry of Reconciliation, to walk in love towards them that are without. God is love and that (agape) love is simple in it's intricate beauty - give. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son. We are to judge nothing before the time, we are to let Jesus Christ the righteous judge have his day in the future. Obviously, these judgments are specific in their reservations since we have to make judgments between right and wrong to live day to day.

We see in the gospels that Jesus definitely spent more time with those who wanted to learn all they could, he also handled his adversaries with candor. However, there are so many examples where he extended himself to vile people (vile according to Old Testament law and their societies standards) and really helped them. I could name situation after situation.

Then we get into the church epistles where Christ is the active head of the body, directing the affairs of the Church. I challenge you to check your understanding of the book of Romans. Specifically the concept of two natures. Sin nature and new nature, old versus new. If you read Romans and think that the old is obliterated now I would re-read it. For example note the contrast in Romans 7 vs Romans 8. Yet the two chapters should likely be one.

My point? As Christians we are not to judge. We are to remember that we are saved by grace, that we were the lowest of the low - dead in trespasses and sins. If you understand the structure of Romans - that there is an outer section that deals with sins we commit, and an inner section that deals with the root cause, the sin nature, then you will come to understand that there is no difference between you, a homosexual, me, or anyone else. From that perspective of humility, to understand that all of us are worthy of judgment, then hopefully you would find it in yourself to love the un-lovable. To reach out with all the love in your heart and give others the chance to know Christ without placing the way ministry's stipulations on how it should be done.

I will refrain from going any further. You are welcome to private message me and I would be happy to talk in more detail. BTW - I have no interest in you leaving the ministry you love no more that I have an interest in keeping my Catholic neighbors from attending mass.

Nice....wish I said it. :)

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well that means you refuse to believe what GOD says in his WORD about homosexaulity. i thought greasespot cafe was a place for believers who were wrongly kicked out of the ministry. i see that unbelievers reside here to. if your not into GOD and HIS word why are you here ? is it to stir up trouble amongst people ? GOD says homosexuality is wrong. and no its not o.k. for homosexuals (male or female) who know THE WORD to stay in the closet and attend fellowship. i never typed that and dont go saying i did. you should read what i typed again. end of story !

You make some false assumptions...GreaseSpot is not a place for "believers" (whatever THAT means), who were wrongly kicked out of the "ministry"...many of us here kicked the "ministry" out of our lives...and by the way, this is NOT a Christian website.

The trouble with religious people is that they are usually arrogant, self righteous, judgemental and hypocritical. Twi is no exception to this. "What GOD says in HIS word"???...Your reasoning is circular, illogical and flat out wrong. Wierwille's rendition of God's will was wrong even from a Christian perspective...and from a secular perspective, it was downright insane...the teachings of rosie and her cohorts are nothing more than a mutated form of what their false prophet stole from others...

...Personally, I think that twi should stay in IT's closet.

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Nice post, OldSkool.

Shift, many of us here had views like those you now hold. We have learned a softer, gentler, form of Christianity OUTSIDE the Way. There are some fine people in churches. They may not know much (in that they may not be able to quote "chapter and verse" but they do do their best with what they know. There's a gentleness and a consideration for different views. They may agree, or they may not. There is no "punishment" for understanding something different.

It is easier to get on with others if one takes the view that we are all right on some things, and all wrong on some things. The individual, group or organization that takes the view that it's the only one that's got it right, will quickly run into conflict with the organization next door that holds that same view. If one looks closely, not critically, one may even find that there is something to be learned from some other organization...in heart, in action, in care for others.

If you, Shift, are fully persuaded that you, and the organization you are with, are absolutely completely completely completely right in what you believe...in everything the organization teaches...that would be very worrying (that's pride).

If you are not so fully persuaded, don't you think you owe it to yourself (if not to the Lord Jesus) to have sufficient respect for your brothers and sisters in Christ, to see if ther is anything you can learn from them? (that's meekness - esteeming others more highly than yourself).

I said before that I think you have a sincere heart to help. Now : be enlarged, so that you can help more.

You have had some very difficult things to overcome in your life, and perhaps here TWI helped you. But TWI is not the only helper you have had, unless you asked every single person who's ever helped you what their Christian beliefs are. You may find that you have encountered the love of God from a number of people on your journey through life. How much kindness and patience did they show you, in spite of all your off-the-Word behavior? Show that to others ... no matter where they are now.

The love of God draws us closer to Him. Reels us in slowly, like playing a fish. It doesn't force us or beat us into submission.

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Animals without backbones hid from each other or fell down. Clamasaurs and oysterettes appeared as appetizers. Then came the sponges, which sucked up about ten percent of all life. Hundreds of years later, in the Late Devouring period, fish became obnoxious. Trilobites, chiggerbites and mosquitoes collided aimlessly in the dense gas. Finally, edible plants sprang up in rows, giving birth to generations of insecticides and other small, dying creatures.

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Animals without backbones hid from each other or fell down. Clamasaurs and oysterettes appeared as appetizers. Then came the sponges, which sucked up about ten percent of all life. Hundreds of years later, in the Late Devouring period, fish became obnoxious. Trilobites, chiggerbites and mosquitoes collided aimlessly in the dense gas. Finally, edible plants sprang up in rows, giving birth to generations of insecticides and other small, dying creatures.

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