Java Jane, I agree with that. Scientific studies have shown that when people SIT a certain portion of the brain kind of shuts off. Maybe its something that calms and lets an idea or thought from God come through all of our static.
...
But, I also note that many people were born again as children and automatically SIT'ed. It was just a "natural" thing to do, and many of us now, still spontaneously do it - such as I do if I'm particularly happy or excited about something - or just plain blessed
So, I think there may be something to it, but who knows what - a calming agent, a way of letting God's thoughts come through - who knows, as I said - I don't know what it is.
I think you summed up exactly what I was trying to say, Sunesis, in a much better way. I think it does allow me to hear God without the distractions when I need it. I also think the subconscious is where God speaks the loudest. But that's my personal experience... someone else may see it differently, and probably will.
Wierwille was poor as a teacher. He was a charlatan, a person practicing quackery or some similar confidence trick in order to obtain money, fame or other advantages via some form of pretence or deception. He made (usually) showy pretenses to knowledge or ability. He was a fraud. All that being said, his idiocy doesn't negate God. man can study things to his hearts content and not truly understand something, that's been shown time and time again. Someone was using the example of The Elephant and the Blind Men, which is a very good example,... for "now we know in part".
But one quack is not good reason to chuck God. Neither is a multidude of Quacks.
Yes, and yes again. I became very angry at God after I left twi - I didn't WANT to be angry with God, but if I was honest with myself I was. I had to deal with that and realize that God had been misrepresented to me, and that there is no way I can every really comprehend God, or predict what God will do, or try to control God... and I am ok with that. It's ok not to know everything, and it's ok to admit that you were duped. God and I are on better terms now.
I still speak in tongues but not like I did in TWI .. and when I first left TWI I stopped praying and SITing for a while.. Now when I am stressed or am praying for some one and don't know what to say or I just want to Praise GOD I speak or Sing in Tongues..
I don't know what it is... and I only do it in private now.. never in front of other people... it is private between me and God. IT is not every day or even every week sometimes I will go a long time without doing it.
For me I don't always have the words to say what I feel to God... My thankfulness for the life I have sometimes is overwhelming and that is when I SIT. OR when I am trying to sort through a situation and I can't find the answer I need I will SIT to remove my spinning mind from the equation... to give me a moment of Peace.
after I left TWI, I slowly stopped SIT. Then 10 yeqrs ago I took the video class Alpha taught by Anglican priest Nicky Gumbel who was influenced by the late Episcopalian priest Dennis Bennett and Vineyards founder John Wimber. Their books as well as those by Smith Wigglesworth, Lester Sumerall, Sam Storms, David Ireland- all talked about the gifts/"manifestations" of the Holy Spirit. And yes Jock Edwin Stiles, Lee Vale, and Brian George Leonard's books all mentioned similar ideas on tongues and interpretations(rarely was the person doing glossalia suppose to interpret which someone else was required to do). Interestingly, Peter Wagner claims there are actually 29 such phenomana including the arts(music, drama, poetry, and visual like architechual).
Am I the only one who abandoned all things "spiritual" after leaving the way? I can proudly say that I am now an atheist. I refer to myself as a "born again atheist" as I speak the gospel of unbelief as fervently as I ever did whilst a Wayfer!
Even Wierwille seemed to recognize that speaking in tongues has an effect on your sense of self and ability to reason.
RTHST
pg.45
"When you pray in the spirit, which is praying in tongues, you may rest assured that there is no selfishness in your prayer, for your understanding is bypassed."
Even Wierwille seemed to recognize that speaking in tongues has an effect on your sense of self and ability to reason.
RTHST
pg.45
"When you pray in the spirit, which is praying in tongues, you may rest assured that there is no selfishness in your prayer, for your understanding is bypassed."
Well, the bible says that one's understanding is unfruitful when speaking in tongues. It also says speaking in tongues is the rest which “may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing” for the weary. So your mind "rests" when speaking in tongues. It quits thinking about some things, it's harder for it to Focus. Okay, it can be refreshing to not let all your worries close in on you. It doesn't surprise me that it bypasses the language portion of your brain. Now, on to common sense,....
Whenever you have the ability to do something, you have to consider the pros and cons of doing it, and not use it to your disadvantage. So if you really need to concentrate, or analyze a situation, do that. If you want to give your mind a rest, speak in tongues. The parts about God being involved in it are up to the individual to consider and believe or not believe it.
Yet it's something you can ALL DO,... even if you no longer believe in God at all. So use it if you will and don't think it's something it's not.
I still speak in tongues when I don't know what to pray for. Even if it is not authentic, and believe that there is something to lettting go of something and not trying to control an outcome.
One area of concern for me is that with all the error in TWI, can I be sure that I really speak in tongues like they did in the 1st century? I dunno, I just do it every now and again. Speaking in tongues has not been "rest to my soul" or most of the other stuff Wierwille taught in the class. When I was "in" and I would confess that to someone, the answer was always that I wasn't believing enough. Well, if the benefits of speaking in tongues rest in believing, why bother with the speaking at all? Just cut to the chase and believe.
Whenever you have the ability to do something, you have to consider the pros and cons of doing it, and not use it to your disadvantage. So if you really need to concentrate, or analyze a situation, do that. If you want to give your mind a rest, speak in tongues. The parts about God being involved in it are up to the individual to consider and believe or not believe it.
Yet it's something you can ALL DO,... even if you no longer believe in God at all. So use it if you will and don't think it's something it's not.
I still speak in tongues when I don't know what to pray for. Even if it is not authentic, and believe that there is something to lettting go of something and not trying to control an outcome.
One area of concern for me is that with all the error in TWI, can I be sure that I really speak in tongues like they did in the 1st century? I dunno, I just do it every now and again. Speaking in tongues has not been "rest to my soul" or most of the other stuff Wierwille taught in the class. When I was "in" and I would confess that to someone, the answer was always that I wasn't believing enough. Well, if the benefits of speaking in tongues rest in believing, why bother with the speaking at all? Just cut to the chase and believe.
Just a side note from someone who was led into SIT pre-TWI, for ME it didn't change. "Authentic", not "authentic", whatever. God's big enough to sort it out that what we're doing is praying to Him.
In the first century, the Pentecost record, it was more of a translation effort. So no, it's not the same there.
Just a side note from someone who was led into SIT pre-TWI, for ME it didn't change. "Authentic", not "authentic", whatever. God's big enough to sort it out that what we're doing is praying to Him.
In the first century, the Pentecost record, it was more of a translation effort. So no, it's not the same there.
Thanks Chockfull! That was very freeing for me, seriously.
I still speak in tongues, and very thankful for it. After pfal I couldn't do it, but Bill Schley gave me the spiritual oomph to get there, for which I am eternally grateful.
Speaking in tongues is there when I don't feel like praying and helps me overcome that hump.
In the dark night of the soul it's there as a comfort that I am a spiritual being and the God Who has delivered me previously will probably be able to do so this time.
5 days ago I got a grandbaby who was in infant ICU because of sugar problems. . . so many heartaches God has seen us through.
I am deeply thankful for each verse of scripture, each prayer by my understanding, each speaking in tongues I do. . .
At a Way Family Camp I went into the prayer place to pray, fell asleep, and Johnny Townsend kindly woke me up when he came in in the morning to pray -- and without a
"Could you not pray without falling asleep?" chastisement, but that was a long time ago when kindness was what won our hearts to the Lord. I can pray a little better today than then, although I still feel woefully insufficient in all categories.
After these few 50 years of trying to pray good, and 40 years of trying to pray without ceasing (after I read the command to do so). . . I still am woefullly insufficient.
After these few years I have grown in respect for many people who pray, with and without speaking in tongues. I think it's the Lord Who moves the mountains when we pray, and He still looks on the heart.
I don't think Billy Graham speaks in tongues but he certainly prays effectually and effectively (whatever!). The integrity of his life certainly has earned many things for the Lord's treasure.
While speaking in tongues may be a religiously legitimate practice... even profound, it's been important for me to realize that there is NOTHING supernatural or miraculous about it. For me, thinking otherwise is naught but superstition. Superstition is the bane of good religion. Since I only have so many years left, I'm glad to have finally jettisoned magical believing (no one has EVER walked on water) in favor of reason, sweet reason... the mother and father of good religion.
While speaking in tongues may be a religiously legitimate practice... even profound, it's been important for me to realize that there is NOTHING supernatural or miraculous about it. For me, thinking otherwise is naught but superstition. Superstition is the bane of good religion. Since I only have so many years left, I'm glad to have finally jettisoned magical believing (no one has EVER walked on water) in favor of reason, sweet reason... the mother and father of good religion.
What's a "good religion"?
I don't make much seperation between religion and cult.
But I realize others have their own ideas on the same word.
Do you believe people can walk across hot coals? Is it a case of you seeing it on TV? in person?
I'm in my twenties, I'm still full of curiosity - so I ask.
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JavaJane
I think you summed up exactly what I was trying to say, Sunesis, in a much better way. I think it does allow me to hear God without the distractions when I need it. I also think the subconscious is where God speaks the loudest. But that's my personal experience... someone else may see it differently, and probably will.
Yes, and yes again. I became very angry at God after I left twi - I didn't WANT to be angry with God, but if I was honest with myself I was. I had to deal with that and realize that God had been misrepresented to me, and that there is no way I can every really comprehend God, or predict what God will do, or try to control God... and I am ok with that. It's ok not to know everything, and it's ok to admit that you were duped. God and I are on better terms now.
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leafytwiglet
I still speak in tongues but not like I did in TWI .. and when I first left TWI I stopped praying and SITing for a while.. Now when I am stressed or am praying for some one and don't know what to say or I just want to Praise GOD I speak or Sing in Tongues..
I don't know what it is... and I only do it in private now.. never in front of other people... it is private between me and God. IT is not every day or even every week sometimes I will go a long time without doing it.
For me I don't always have the words to say what I feel to God... My thankfulness for the life I have sometimes is overwhelming and that is when I SIT. OR when I am trying to sort through a situation and I can't find the answer I need I will SIT to remove my spinning mind from the equation... to give me a moment of Peace.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
after I left TWI, I slowly stopped SIT. Then 10 yeqrs ago I took the video class Alpha taught by Anglican priest Nicky Gumbel who was influenced by the late Episcopalian priest Dennis Bennett and Vineyards founder John Wimber. Their books as well as those by Smith Wigglesworth, Lester Sumerall, Sam Storms, David Ireland- all talked about the gifts/"manifestations" of the Holy Spirit. And yes Jock Edwin Stiles, Lee Vale, and Brian George Leonard's books all mentioned similar ideas on tongues and interpretations(rarely was the person doing glossalia suppose to interpret which someone else was required to do). Interestingly, Peter Wagner claims there are actually 29 such phenomana including the arts(music, drama, poetry, and visual like architechual).
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Nato
Am I the only one who abandoned all things "spiritual" after leaving the way? I can proudly say that I am now an atheist. I refer to myself as a "born again atheist" as I speak the gospel of unbelief as fervently as I ever did whilst a Wayfer!
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Sunesis
No Nato, you aren't - we have quite a few hardcore aetheists here who used to be faithful TWI members. Hang around, you'll run into each other :)
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waysider
Even Wierwille seemed to recognize that speaking in tongues has an effect on your sense of self and ability to reason.
RTHST
pg.45
"When you pray in the spirit, which is praying in tongues, you may rest assured that there is no selfishness in your prayer, for your understanding is bypassed."
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Gen-2
Well, the bible says that one's understanding is unfruitful when speaking in tongues. It also says speaking in tongues is the rest which “may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing” for the weary. So your mind "rests" when speaking in tongues. It quits thinking about some things, it's harder for it to Focus. Okay, it can be refreshing to not let all your worries close in on you. It doesn't surprise me that it bypasses the language portion of your brain. Now, on to common sense,....
Whenever you have the ability to do something, you have to consider the pros and cons of doing it, and not use it to your disadvantage. So if you really need to concentrate, or analyze a situation, do that. If you want to give your mind a rest, speak in tongues. The parts about God being involved in it are up to the individual to consider and believe or not believe it.
Yet it's something you can ALL DO,... even if you no longer believe in God at all. So use it if you will and don't think it's something it's not.
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Broken Arrow
I still speak in tongues when I don't know what to pray for. Even if it is not authentic, and believe that there is something to lettting go of something and not trying to control an outcome.
One area of concern for me is that with all the error in TWI, can I be sure that I really speak in tongues like they did in the 1st century? I dunno, I just do it every now and again. Speaking in tongues has not been "rest to my soul" or most of the other stuff Wierwille taught in the class. When I was "in" and I would confess that to someone, the answer was always that I wasn't believing enough. Well, if the benefits of speaking in tongues rest in believing, why bother with the speaking at all? Just cut to the chase and believe.
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waysider
I can certainly agree with that.
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chockfull
Just a side note from someone who was led into SIT pre-TWI, for ME it didn't change. "Authentic", not "authentic", whatever. God's big enough to sort it out that what we're doing is praying to Him.
In the first century, the Pentecost record, it was more of a translation effort. So no, it's not the same there.
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Broken Arrow
Thanks Chockfull! That was very freeing for me, seriously.
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Kit Sober
I still speak in tongues, and very thankful for it. After pfal I couldn't do it, but Bill Schley gave me the spiritual oomph to get there, for which I am eternally grateful.
Speaking in tongues is there when I don't feel like praying and helps me overcome that hump.
In the dark night of the soul it's there as a comfort that I am a spiritual being and the God Who has delivered me previously will probably be able to do so this time.
5 days ago I got a grandbaby who was in infant ICU because of sugar problems. . . so many heartaches God has seen us through.
I am deeply thankful for each verse of scripture, each prayer by my understanding, each speaking in tongues I do. . .
At a Way Family Camp I went into the prayer place to pray, fell asleep, and Johnny Townsend kindly woke me up when he came in in the morning to pray -- and without a
"Could you not pray without falling asleep?" chastisement, but that was a long time ago when kindness was what won our hearts to the Lord. I can pray a little better today than then, although I still feel woefully insufficient in all categories.
After these few 50 years of trying to pray good, and 40 years of trying to pray without ceasing (after I read the command to do so). . . I still am woefullly insufficient.
After these few years I have grown in respect for many people who pray, with and without speaking in tongues. I think it's the Lord Who moves the mountains when we pray, and He still looks on the heart.
I don't think Billy Graham speaks in tongues but he certainly prays effectually and effectively (whatever!). The integrity of his life certainly has earned many things for the Lord's treasure.
Integrity of lifetime is no small thing.
In hope,
Kit
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Pax
While speaking in tongues may be a religiously legitimate practice... even profound, it's been important for me to realize that there is NOTHING supernatural or miraculous about it. For me, thinking otherwise is naught but superstition. Superstition is the bane of good religion. Since I only have so many years left, I'm glad to have finally jettisoned magical believing (no one has EVER walked on water) in favor of reason, sweet reason... the mother and father of good religion.
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soul searcher
Hi Pax.
Not even Jesus Christ?
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Gen-2
What's a "good religion"?
I don't make much seperation between religion and cult.
But I realize others have their own ideas on the same word.
Do you believe people can walk across hot coals? Is it a case of you seeing it on TV? in person?
I'm in my twenties, I'm still full of curiosity - so I ask.
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TrustAndObey
I have no doubt people can.. And have seen it.. But that's not to say the status of their feet afterwards!
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waysider
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Pax
Matthew 26:64
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