You know, I feel VP didn't really believe the Bible and I don't believe he ever in his life had an original thought about it. All of his classes, books, characters (Johnny Jump up, etc.), and even incidents were taken from someone else. Remember, we didn't have internet back then and I think he had no idea how he would be found out in the future.
I think he read and memorized a lot - he learned his lines, so to speak, as an actor would - so he could play the "preacher/teacher part" beloved by the gullible little kiddies as he laughed all the way to the bank on whatever his most recent Harley was.
So, that book has some topics I've heard VP touch on - like the Deborah section.
You know, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he took things out of there for teachings. People used to ooh and ahhh about his "knowledge" - today, its all out there to find if you dig hard enough.
As I said, that looks like it would have been a good book for him to use.
I suspect Wierwille did not throw away all books/commentaries and Torrey's writings was proably modified to agree with Kenyon and Bullinger. The topics were originally seperate smaller books with chapters, later reprinted by charismatic publishing house Whitaker House in New Kenington,PA. A lot of the materials proably became part of PFAL and the supplemental"collaterals".btw, I also have Kenyon's 2 volume Bible Course books: Basic-Reason for Creation, Man;s Treason and Results,Reing of Spiritual Death, Man's need of Mediator,, Abrahamic Covenant, Tabernacle,, Redemption, Our identification with Christ, Name of Jesus, Healing, Lordship of Christ, Holy Spirit, 2nd coming of Christ, 2 kinds of knowledge; and Advanced-Prevailing Word, Law of Prosperity, Sense ruled mind, Satan the defeated, Established, Studies in the Book of Acts, Father fact, Fellowship and relationship, Jesus the healer, Knowing the Master, Exercising our selves in the Word, We are more than Conquerors. Too bad Wierwille only talked the walk but failed to follow through.
You know, I feel VP didn't really believe the Bible and I don't believe he ever in his life had an original thought about it. All of his classes, books, characters (Johnny Jump up, etc.), and even incidents were taken from someone else. Remember, we didn't have internet back then and I think he had no idea how he would be found out in the future.
I think he read and memorized a lot - he learned his lines, so to speak, as an actor would - so he could play the "preacher/teacher part" beloved by the gullible little kiddies as he laughed all the way to the bank on whatever his most recent Harley was.
So, that book has some topics I've heard VP touch on - like the Deborah section.
You know, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he took things out of there for teachings. People used to ooh and ahhh about his "knowledge" - today, its all out there to find if you dig hard enough.
As I said, that looks like it would have been a good book for him to use.
I agree 100% with Sunesis...I think Wierwille was a master con man...it's questionable whether he was even a Christian. He certainly fits the biblical description of a false prophet
A drunkard, a liar and a womanizer...he had absolutely no regard for anyone except himself.
Tom, where are you getting these books? I think VP took a lot from Kenyon - one of the Christian forerunner/practitioner of the name it and claim it philosophy where you visualize and it must come to pass.
This is passed off today in the secular realm as the book "The Secret" - same "laws of believing" or magic of believing, etc. but packaged differently for the intended audience.
Thanks Groucho!! I too have wondered if VP was ever born again. We shall never know, but - by their fruits you shall know them...
bought some at Lifeways(formerly Broadman/Southern Baptist)bookstore, others at Christian Family Bookstore(fundamentalist) here in Hickory, a few online. This was about 10-12 years ago, plus Bullinger's materials. Strange how so called Christian Bookstores have these questionable materials.
Wierwille "borrowed" whatever and whenever it hit his fancy. Sometimes it was a phrase. Sometimes it was a sentence. Sometimes it was whole paragraphs and chapters of books. I don't think he really ever gave much thought to being found out. We were conned by a shyster. That's the bottom line.
You know, I feel VP didn't really believe the Bible and I don't believe he ever in his life had an original thought about it. All of his classes, books, characters (Johnny Jump up, etc.), and even incidents were taken from someone else. Remember, we didn't have internet back then and I think he had no idea how he would be found out in the future.
I think he read and memorized a lot - he learned his lines, so to speak, as an actor would - so he could play the "preacher/teacher part" beloved by the gullible little kiddies as he laughed all the way to the bank on whatever his most recent Harley was.
So, that book has some topics I've heard VP touch on - like the Deborah section.
You know, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he took things out of there for teachings. People used to ooh and ahhh about his "knowledge" - today, its all out there to find if you dig hard enough.
As I said, that looks like it would have been a good book for him to use.
don't know about Deborah but have heard the story of Jephthah's daughter(Judges Chapter 11) being taught once in twig back in the 70's.
I read all of Watchman Nee's books years ago on staff at TWI. There was a Christian Bookstore in Celina I'd drive to.
I don't think anyone really picked up on him, he was occasionally mentioned, but his writings have a lot to do with Christ and humility. Humility didn't fit too well in the TWI scheme of things, so after awhile, you never heard him spoken of. Interesting that the Chinese culture was so apathetic - the people were just beaten down and dead. Nee got upset, because even when Chinese were being lined up to be executed by the Japanese during their invasion in the late '30s, and beheaded by them, or used for live bayonent practice, the chinese would just stand there in line like sheep and say nothing. He was trying terribly to wake them up.
Interesting the different characteristics of different cultures and the difference in messages those prophets and apostles carried to the people.
The books in themselves are not necessarily wrong but some of the doctrines are not in mainstream Christianity doctrinal understanding and can be manipulated and abused to teach heresy(which is not wrong doctrine but over emphasised selections of scripture to the point of ignoring other important scriptural teaching).
Wierwille "borrowed" whatever and whenever it hit his fancy. Sometimes it was a phrase. Sometimes it was a sentence. Sometimes it was whole paragraphs and chapters of books. I don't think he really ever gave much thought to being found out. We were conned by a shyster. That's the bottom line.
Way, I think we were conned by a Master Shyster. Most of us weren't in on the con, but VPW knew he was a Con Man. Many of us didn't know we were conned, until after VPW's death. As for me, I didn't know for years I had been conned, until I found out about it on the GSC.
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waysider
Sorry, Thomas, I'm not familiar with either of those books.
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Sunesis
You know, I feel VP didn't really believe the Bible and I don't believe he ever in his life had an original thought about it. All of his classes, books, characters (Johnny Jump up, etc.), and even incidents were taken from someone else. Remember, we didn't have internet back then and I think he had no idea how he would be found out in the future.
I think he read and memorized a lot - he learned his lines, so to speak, as an actor would - so he could play the "preacher/teacher part" beloved by the gullible little kiddies as he laughed all the way to the bank on whatever his most recent Harley was.
So, that book has some topics I've heard VP touch on - like the Deborah section.
You know, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he took things out of there for teachings. People used to ooh and ahhh about his "knowledge" - today, its all out there to find if you dig hard enough.
As I said, that looks like it would have been a good book for him to use.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
I suspect Wierwille did not throw away all books/commentaries and Torrey's writings was proably modified to agree with Kenyon and Bullinger. The topics were originally seperate smaller books with chapters, later reprinted by charismatic publishing house Whitaker House in New Kenington,PA. A lot of the materials proably became part of PFAL and the supplemental"collaterals".btw, I also have Kenyon's 2 volume Bible Course books: Basic-Reason for Creation, Man;s Treason and Results,Reing of Spiritual Death, Man's need of Mediator,, Abrahamic Covenant, Tabernacle,, Redemption, Our identification with Christ, Name of Jesus, Healing, Lordship of Christ, Holy Spirit, 2nd coming of Christ, 2 kinds of knowledge; and Advanced-Prevailing Word, Law of Prosperity, Sense ruled mind, Satan the defeated, Established, Studies in the Book of Acts, Father fact, Fellowship and relationship, Jesus the healer, Knowing the Master, Exercising our selves in the Word, We are more than Conquerors. Too bad Wierwille only talked the walk but failed to follow through.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I agree 100% with Sunesis...I think Wierwille was a master con man...it's questionable whether he was even a Christian. He certainly fits the biblical description of a false prophet
A drunkard, a liar and a womanizer...he had absolutely no regard for anyone except himself.
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Sunesis
Tom, where are you getting these books? I think VP took a lot from Kenyon - one of the Christian forerunner/practitioner of the name it and claim it philosophy where you visualize and it must come to pass.
This is passed off today in the secular realm as the book "The Secret" - same "laws of believing" or magic of believing, etc. but packaged differently for the intended audience.
Thanks Groucho!! I too have wondered if VP was ever born again. We shall never know, but - by their fruits you shall know them...
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
bought some at Lifeways(formerly Broadman/Southern Baptist)bookstore, others at Christian Family Bookstore(fundamentalist) here in Hickory, a few online. This was about 10-12 years ago, plus Bullinger's materials. Strange how so called Christian Bookstores have these questionable materials.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
any other observations? maybe selected writings from Watchman Nee, once infered by people like RD and other corps from 2nd ,3rd, and 4th groups.
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waysider
Wierwille "borrowed" whatever and whenever it hit his fancy. Sometimes it was a phrase. Sometimes it was a sentence. Sometimes it was whole paragraphs and chapters of books. I don't think he really ever gave much thought to being found out. We were conned by a shyster. That's the bottom line.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
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Sunesis
I read all of Watchman Nee's books years ago on staff at TWI. There was a Christian Bookstore in Celina I'd drive to.
I don't think anyone really picked up on him, he was occasionally mentioned, but his writings have a lot to do with Christ and humility. Humility didn't fit too well in the TWI scheme of things, so after awhile, you never heard him spoken of. Interesting that the Chinese culture was so apathetic - the people were just beaten down and dead. Nee got upset, because even when Chinese were being lined up to be executed by the Japanese during their invasion in the late '30s, and beheaded by them, or used for live bayonent practice, the chinese would just stand there in line like sheep and say nothing. He was trying terribly to wake them up.
Interesting the different characteristics of different cultures and the difference in messages those prophets and apostles carried to the people.
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Al Poole
TLB... What exactly makes these materials questionable in your opinion?
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
The books in themselves are not necessarily wrong but some of the doctrines are not in mainstream Christianity doctrinal understanding and can be manipulated and abused to teach heresy(which is not wrong doctrine but over emphasised selections of scripture to the point of ignoring other important scriptural teaching).
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, I think we were conned by a Master Shyster. Most of us weren't in on the con, but VPW knew he was a Con Man. Many of us didn't know we were conned, until after VPW's death. As for me, I didn't know for years I had been conned, until I found out about it on the GSC.
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