Forgiveness and TWI's Board of Directors

[shortfuse]

My $.02 on the original question without having really digested all the discussion that followed.

My parents used to have mad file cabinets full of way stuff growing up. At some point they had this archive of like every letter VPW had written the Corps or something. I just happened upon it poking around these documents. One made an impression on me, but I haven't seen the hard copy since (this is maybe 20 years ago now). It was a letter from VPW to the Way Corps household, and he was apologizing to the whole corps household in really vague terms for letting them down and hurting their hearts. That's about as specific as I remember but it was like a one page letter to the whole corps. Wierd thing is, I've never heard any of the old timers here validate this story - after all this time, I wonder if I imagined it. (Shrug.)

As for the current BOD, I have suggested that an apology was in order. John Rupp told me he didn't think it was biblical. Did Paul apologize for going to Jerusalem? Are there any examples of men of god asking for forgiveness of their flock?

Just seems like common sense, common decency to me.

[Shellon]

I have a copy of what is likely that same letter. Don't think you imagined it.

[DogLover]

Chockfull,

Thoughtful and well-articulated posts.

DogLover

Edited September 22, 2010 by DogLover

[skyrider]

My parents used to have mad file cabinets full of way stuff growing up. At some point they had this archive of like every letter VPW had written the Corps or something. I just happened upon it poking around these documents. One made an impression on me, but I haven't seen the hard copy since (this is maybe 20 years ago now). It was a letter from VPW to the Way Corps household, and he was apologizing to the whole corps household in really vague terms for letting them down and hurting their hearts. That's about as specific as I remember but it was like a one page letter to the whole corps. Wierd thing is, I've never heard any of the old timers here validate this story - after all this time, I wonder if I imagined it. (Shrug.)

Yes.......I've seen that vague vpw-letter to the corps.

Anyone who lived thru the wierwille-daze.....know that slick vic was famous for those vague "hurt your heart" or "broken-hearted" comments. They appear over and over again. Geer used it in his poop paper. Howard told the hq staffers that wierwille died of a broken heart.

Speak in generalites......and it manipulates the masses to fill in the blanks.

[JeffSjo]

THE FOLLOWING I POSTED ON MY FACEBOOK PROFILE,while speaking to someone who I will not condemn who is still somehow involved in Way International culture.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I have been considering how tough it can be for someone who has been led around for decades by The Way International to come to terms... with the truth that starting with Wierwille, top leadership is a bunch of lying, deceitful predators who are very skilled at spinning the truth to suit their purposes.

And on top of that they have turned the Grace of God into unbounded lust, trying at every turn as far as I can tell to promote within Way International closed culture that allows them to excuse their sins while carefully picking out folks who are willing to collude with them and hide their shame. And oftentimes, after using these folks, but especially the women, they discard them like yesterday's trash.

Now since you have expressed nothing directly to me except a desire to see me healed I bear you no ill will. Heck, if I wasn't completely certain of the things that I speak to you I would wish I didn't have to say them at all. But as things sit now I am fully convinced that for all our sakes we should come to terms with these things out here in the light."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What the heck folks, how could I not come back for a bit with Johnny coming clean here for a bit!? :D

See, for me it's about motivation of the person asking Way victim's to forgive the abusers. And while someone may be willing to make a good case for it, if they have shown themselves already to be thuggish or a bully, it tends to discredit the sincerity of their suggestion IMO.

And while someone may be well intentioned in their desire to see folks forgive in order to be healed I think in this case they just might not perceive the real need. Wouldn't becoming clear about the abuse, clear about the real character of the abusers, and clear about the nature of their continued deception be better than walking away from these hard realities? But since we are all different people I happily and needfully allow each to make up their own mind.

Edited September 22, 2010 by JeffSjo

[chockfull]

Re: the original question:

RFR apologized to me once, but it was an empty apology. She apologized for "hurting my feelin's" when, in fact, my feelings weren't hurt. I was angry because she lied to me and tried to manipulate me, so I called her out on it. She never owned up to the actual wrongs. So yes, she apologized, but her apology was laughable.

Nevertheless, I've forgiven her (a) because I believe it's required of me as a Christian and (b) because not to do so would give her too much importance in my life. I'm not going to carry the burden of bitterness around on my back just because I never got a real apology from her. Life's too short for me to sit around worrying about whether someone else does the right thing. I have enough to do to keep my own ducks in a row.

I'm re-reading through this thread and realize I responded really strongly to one of LindaZ's posts. I wanted to say no offence and I just seem to view forgiveness as in stronger shades than many do. Many people say "I forgive but I don't forget". That's cool for them, even if I don't see it the same.

I did want to say that LindaZ's experience she references above with RFR is a very important one to me in establishing RFR's character development over time. That pattern was that she would not face anyone directly down, but would back off but put the person on her little black list. Then later on she would come back around and axe the person or use her authority to assassinate their character, fire them, or bring action very detrimental towards them. RFR is not a person that lives with forgiveness in her heart or actions.

So do you think God will forgive her? Or have her judged according to how she's judged others?

For my life I agree with Linda. I won't say I forgive RFR directly, but I will say I've given my account over to God to collect so I can move on and not allow her too much importance of focus in my life.

[Ham]

That pattern was that she would not face anyone directly down, but would back off but put the person on her little black list.

sometimes I have the same temptation.. but the almighty has blessed me with the inability to remember names and faces together..

no kidding..

[Ham]

If I'm forced to mathematically figure it out, you don't have a chance..

something about figuring out how to figure something out, clubbing around in the dark..

it always works..

if one is not involved, please stand your distance..

[excathedra]

having been a personal target of rosalie rivenbark, i know she is not a nice person

she will have to deal with it

[Ham]

That is good.. I think... mathematically, she won't stand a chance, nor has she to my satisfaction..

[Ham]

I'm still trying to figure out mathematically what it it is to have, to begin with..

[OldSkool]

having been a personal target of rosalie rivenbark, i know she is not a nice person

she will have to deal with it

I have been a personal target as well. The woman has fangs! Given the opportunity she would eat her young.

[chockfull]

I'm still trying to figure out mathematically what it it is to have, to begin with..

Come now, Ham. Set theory is your friend.