I would classify it as a non-fiction novel because, although the events and characters are real, some of the characters identities have been masked with fictional names. In addition, some details have been changed, via literary license, in order to be more clearly understood by a broader readership. One such example would be what we, who were in in The Way, referred to as baby "dedications".
I would classify it as a non-fiction novel because, although the events and characters are real, some of the characters identities have been masked with fictional names. In addition, some details have been changed, via literary license, in order to be more clearly understood by a broader readership. One such example would be what we, who were in in The Way, referred to as baby "dedications".
I believe this book is considered to be in the genre of memoir. Memoirs range in their approaches to depicting events that occurred in the writer's life. A good summary of the genre, in my opinion (I'm interested in this genre and have written a short one that's posted here on GSC), is the following:
"The point - the glory - of memoir is that it anchors its authority in the actual life; it is a modeling of the process of creative self-inquiry as it is applied to the stuff of live experience. This really happened is the baseline contention of the memoir, and the fascination of the work - apart from the interest we have in what is told - is in tracking the artistic transformation of the actual via the alchemy of the psychological insight, pattern recognition, and lyrical evocation into a contained saga."
~ The Art of Time in Memoir: Then, Again by Sven Birkerts
Great post, Chockful. I wish I had this sort of information at my finger tips when I was talked into attending my first way international fellowship!
As for sanitizing victor paul wierwille's image, I witnessed it first hand for around 8 years or so. They hold that crook in the highest regard. As for Christ, to them he is absent - seated at the right hand of God. So they substitute their "dear leaders" in his stead.
penworks is right. Accurately, Kristin's book is a memoir, not a novel. I wasn't accurately precise about that in my first post. However, I did purchase it, read it, and enjoyed it. It reads with the intrigue of a novel, although by that I am in no way trying to suggest it is fictional. I know far too many of the facts involved to suggest that. I believe it to be 100% non-fictional and 100% factually accurate. It also has the grip of a good novel. I'll probably buy her second memoir she is currently writing as well.
In fact, without works such as hers and corroborating stories and evidence, we would really not have a very good picture of TWI at all. Why is that? It is because those in power in TWI have ALWAYS lied and covered up these types of things. They do things in secret, in the dark, behind the scenes. They portray a different public image than what they are really like.
Why do they do this? Well, they even teach this themselves about "the adversary" or the devil. The value of the counterfeit increases with its nearness to the genuine. How many followers would TWI have if they accurately told the story of VPW as a flim-flam artist, plagiarist, drunk and womanizing sexual predator? Zero? Those things do not inspire people to follow Christian organizations or leaders. Also, if he was like that and the current group of idiot leaders were raised by him and his successor who was as bad and stupider, what kind of things would that say about them? All this is true, mind you, but TWI is in the business of selling religion. Like politics, they sell an image, not reality. That's why they fight tooth and nail to keep the truth from being told, and to discount it when it is told. With the elitism they teach, the group think, the common values they preach, it is a simple matter to wave their hands over all of Grease Spot and say "they are lying". Actually, no we're not. One of the reasons we are here instead of in TWI is that we aren't very good at lying. We can't cover things up, sweep them under the carpet, play the game. Instead, we have told people the truth. And they have not liked it. So they close their ranks, keep those close to them they can use or who are "profitable to them", all the while telling themselves they are just like the apostles and prophets in the Bible. But they are not. They are false apostles and prophets. And God will expose them in His time.
In fact, without works such as hers and corroborating stories and evidence, we would really not have a very good picture of TWI at all. Why is that? It is because those in power in TWI have ALWAYS lied and covered up these types of things. They do things in secret, in the dark, behind the scenes. They portray a different public image than what they are really like.
Why do they do this? Well, they even teach this themselves about "the adversary" or the devil. why they fight tooth and nail to keep the truth from being told, and to discount it when it is told.
With the elitism they teach, the group think, the common values they preach, it is a simple matter to wave their hands over all of Grease Spot and say "they are lying". Actually, no we're not.
What can they possibly say to discount Kris's book, for instance? (oh, I forgot about the "she's possessed by devil spirits" excuse). I guess that's the same way they brush away my little memoir here about research if they bothered to read it at all.
What possible motivation would Kris or any other woman have to write such a story, (taking YEARS of time to do, which writing a book takes), go to the enormous effort of finding a publisher (also not for the faint hearted), getting it published and promoting it all over the place as well as on her blog, etc. if she were lying? It sure can't be for the money.
Give me a break.
It would be a rare and crazy and stupid person lacking an ounce of sense who would stick her neck out, revealing such a story about herself, if it were not true. Kris wrote it to help people understand how this sort of thing happens, using herself as an example. (ask her on her blog). Kris is not lying about VP's preying on her. I know her story. I fact-checked the book for her. My former father-in-law, Dr. Joseph Bish*p is thanked in the front matter of the book. He counseled her when she first left in 1986 and returned to Rye, NY where he was the pastor of a church. He told us of her devastating situation back then.
While I was not one of VP's "girls," I know some who were. This is not a light matter. This is serious business. This is not to be dismissed.
I've pointed these things out a to numerous people before (as have many of you here to certain VP apologists) only to be told that no one is perfect. Paul wasn't perfect. David wasn't perfect. etc etc.
BUT when you have a ministry build on a practices like this... deceiving with plagiarism, using a title that is deceiving, teaching doctrines that discourage questioning and critical thinking, then you need to seriously inspect the doctrine. These personal faults, while it makes it hard to believe this guy was the "man of God" he claimed to be, don't automatically make what he taught wrong. They should cause you to pause though and throw up some red flags. So you need to compare it to other doctrines, research outside their given "research principles" and see if it all holds up to reason. In short, you need to do what they've discouraged you to do and really look outside their box.
So you need to compare it to other doctrines, research outside their given "research principles" and see if it all holds up to reason. In short, you need to do what they've discouraged you to do and really look outside their box.
Oh, sure. And end up like Eve did???? No thanks. I'd rather let some self centered, misogynistic, sexually deviant, narcissistic drunkard do my thinking for me. Much easier that way.
Actually, I think the latest delusions of those in power are just like a lame duck president - the false vision they are leaving some kind of legacy beyond the vomit inducing cr@p their lives have produced.
Forgive me. It's late, and I feel like making corny comparisons. At 12:18 am, this seems profound. Typically when I write stuff like this it doesn't seem that profound at all when I read the post the next day. Sometimes, it doesn't even make sense.
Jean-Luc Picard, Captain of the Starship Enterprise (oh, there some of you go already) dies in one of the episodes. He goes to some place and meets an immortal being known only as "Q". Being immortal, Q decides to take Jean-Luc back in time and he wants the Captain to interract with others in this new time zone. Jean-Luc refuses because he's afraid that one small mis-step on his part will alter the history of the universe. Q rolls his eyes and says, "You have nothing to worry about. Frankly Jean-Luc, you weren't that important".
I think of that whenever I see a leader consumed with leaving a legacy. "Frankly (name of leader) very few people were really paying that much attention. You just weren't that important".
I've pointed these things out a to numerous people before (as have many of you here to certain VP apologists) only to be told that no one is perfect. Paul wasn't perfect. David wasn't perfect. etc etc.
BUT when you have a ministry build on a practices like this... deceiving with plagiarism, using a title that is deceiving, teaching doctrines that discourage questioning and critical thinking, then you need to seriously inspect the doctrine. These personal faults, while it makes it hard to believe this guy was the "man of God" he claimed to be, don't automatically make what he taught wrong. They should cause you to pause though and throw up some red flags. So you need to compare it to other doctrines, research outside their given "research principles" and see if it all holds up to reason. In short, you need to do what they've discouraged you to do and really look outside their box.
When I took a look at the TWI website I couldn't find a single reference to VPW.
Just like 1984 he is now an "unperson" so I assume they consider his "doctorate" as immaterial.
They keep the website very basic and it is not that important to them. They don't even have an email link on the contact us page. I left in 2008. Since Craig for fired in 2000 they have systematically elevated Wierwille in their teachings, classes, fellowships, etc. If anything I think they are careful to not reference him on the website because they are very diligent to avoid the "cult image" of gathering starry eyed around a central figure. This is one of the main reasons they alternate teachers each week, and the dictator in-chief, Rosalie Rivenbark, hides in the background. Behind the scenes is a different story. Rosalie demands blind obedience, tells people what she thinks they need to know, and fires / demotes dissenters. If she speaks they all run hither and tither like the good little minions they are. I digress. Point being they are still a cult even if at a cursory glance they appear otherwise.
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Ham
I find the details intriguing. EIGHT bedrooms, NINE (?) bathrooms.. and its only valued at 508,000?
The only thing I can think.. either it's a deal of a lifetime, or its a real dump..
Apparently its does not have central air conditioning either..
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Twinky
I don't think Kristin would agree with you about it being a novel.
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waysider
I would classify it as a non-fiction novel because, although the events and characters are real, some of the characters identities have been masked with fictional names. In addition, some details have been changed, via literary license, in order to be more clearly understood by a broader readership. One such example would be what we, who were in in The Way, referred to as baby "dedications".
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waysider
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penworks
I believe this book is considered to be in the genre of memoir. Memoirs range in their approaches to depicting events that occurred in the writer's life. A good summary of the genre, in my opinion (I'm interested in this genre and have written a short one that's posted here on GSC), is the following:
"The point - the glory - of memoir is that it anchors its authority in the actual life; it is a modeling of the process of creative self-inquiry as it is applied to the stuff of live experience. This really happened is the baseline contention of the memoir, and the fascination of the work - apart from the interest we have in what is told - is in tracking the artistic transformation of the actual via the alchemy of the psychological insight, pattern recognition, and lyrical evocation into a contained saga."
~ The Art of Time in Memoir: Then, Again by Sven Birkerts
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OldSkool
Great post, Chockful. I wish I had this sort of information at my finger tips when I was talked into attending my first way international fellowship!
As for sanitizing victor paul wierwille's image, I witnessed it first hand for around 8 years or so. They hold that crook in the highest regard. As for Christ, to them he is absent - seated at the right hand of God. So they substitute their "dear leaders" in his stead.
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chockfull
penworks is right. Accurately, Kristin's book is a memoir, not a novel. I wasn't accurately precise about that in my first post. However, I did purchase it, read it, and enjoyed it. It reads with the intrigue of a novel, although by that I am in no way trying to suggest it is fictional. I know far too many of the facts involved to suggest that. I believe it to be 100% non-fictional and 100% factually accurate. It also has the grip of a good novel. I'll probably buy her second memoir she is currently writing as well.
In fact, without works such as hers and corroborating stories and evidence, we would really not have a very good picture of TWI at all. Why is that? It is because those in power in TWI have ALWAYS lied and covered up these types of things. They do things in secret, in the dark, behind the scenes. They portray a different public image than what they are really like.
Why do they do this? Well, they even teach this themselves about "the adversary" or the devil. The value of the counterfeit increases with its nearness to the genuine. How many followers would TWI have if they accurately told the story of VPW as a flim-flam artist, plagiarist, drunk and womanizing sexual predator? Zero? Those things do not inspire people to follow Christian organizations or leaders. Also, if he was like that and the current group of idiot leaders were raised by him and his successor who was as bad and stupider, what kind of things would that say about them? All this is true, mind you, but TWI is in the business of selling religion. Like politics, they sell an image, not reality. That's why they fight tooth and nail to keep the truth from being told, and to discount it when it is told. With the elitism they teach, the group think, the common values they preach, it is a simple matter to wave their hands over all of Grease Spot and say "they are lying". Actually, no we're not. One of the reasons we are here instead of in TWI is that we aren't very good at lying. We can't cover things up, sweep them under the carpet, play the game. Instead, we have told people the truth. And they have not liked it. So they close their ranks, keep those close to them they can use or who are "profitable to them", all the while telling themselves they are just like the apostles and prophets in the Bible. But they are not. They are false apostles and prophets. And God will expose them in His time.
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penworks
What can they possibly say to discount Kris's book, for instance? (oh, I forgot about the "she's possessed by devil spirits" excuse). I guess that's the same way they brush away my little memoir here about research if they bothered to read it at all.
What possible motivation would Kris or any other woman have to write such a story, (taking YEARS of time to do, which writing a book takes), go to the enormous effort of finding a publisher (also not for the faint hearted), getting it published and promoting it all over the place as well as on her blog, etc. if she were lying? It sure can't be for the money.
Give me a break.
It would be a rare and crazy and stupid person lacking an ounce of sense who would stick her neck out, revealing such a story about herself, if it were not true. Kris wrote it to help people understand how this sort of thing happens, using herself as an example. (ask her on her blog). Kris is not lying about VP's preying on her. I know her story. I fact-checked the book for her. My former father-in-law, Dr. Joseph Bish*p is thanked in the front matter of the book. He counseled her when she first left in 1986 and returned to Rye, NY where he was the pastor of a church. He told us of her devastating situation back then.
While I was not one of VP's "girls," I know some who were. This is not a light matter. This is serious business. This is not to be dismissed.
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lindyhopper
I've pointed these things out a to numerous people before (as have many of you here to certain VP apologists) only to be told that no one is perfect. Paul wasn't perfect. David wasn't perfect. etc etc.
BUT when you have a ministry build on a practices like this... deceiving with plagiarism, using a title that is deceiving, teaching doctrines that discourage questioning and critical thinking, then you need to seriously inspect the doctrine. These personal faults, while it makes it hard to believe this guy was the "man of God" he claimed to be, don't automatically make what he taught wrong. They should cause you to pause though and throw up some red flags. So you need to compare it to other doctrines, research outside their given "research principles" and see if it all holds up to reason. In short, you need to do what they've discouraged you to do and really look outside their box.
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chockfull
Or, you could go by Jesus words who taught "by their fruit they are known", and call it a day. :)
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waysider
Oh, sure. And end up like Eve did???? No thanks. I'd rather let some self centered, misogynistic, sexually deviant, narcissistic drunkard do my thinking for me. Much easier that way.
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Ham
sorry..
it's easier for a ..
what were your words..
Ha! A sexual deviant (?) me, no.
drunkard?
perhaps at times, yes.
to figure it out, for myself..
scary thoughts..
sorry, I'm not taking anything here personally, but on the other hand I am..
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cheranne
Even after a Skunk is dead the Odor Lingers!
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Gen-2
"All you take with you when you're gone, is what you leave behind," John Allston
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chockfull
Actually, I think the latest delusions of those in power are just like a lame duck president - the false vision they are leaving some kind of legacy beyond the vomit inducing cr@p their lives have produced.
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Broken Arrow
Forgive me. It's late, and I feel like making corny comparisons. At 12:18 am, this seems profound. Typically when I write stuff like this it doesn't seem that profound at all when I read the post the next day. Sometimes, it doesn't even make sense.
Jean-Luc Picard, Captain of the Starship Enterprise (oh, there some of you go already) dies in one of the episodes. He goes to some place and meets an immortal being known only as "Q". Being immortal, Q decides to take Jean-Luc back in time and he wants the Captain to interract with others in this new time zone. Jean-Luc refuses because he's afraid that one small mis-step on his part will alter the history of the universe. Q rolls his eyes and says, "You have nothing to worry about. Frankly Jean-Luc, you weren't that important".
I think of that whenever I see a leader consumed with leaving a legacy. "Frankly (name of leader) very few people were really paying that much attention. You just weren't that important".
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Human without the bean
Out of the box even!
How about VP and his Kenyon doctrine?
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Twinky
Broken Arrow, I find that a very entertaining thought.
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Trefor Heywood
When I took a look at the TWI website I couldn't find a single reference to VPW.
Just like 1984 he is now an "unperson" so I assume they consider his "doctorate" as immaterial.
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Linda Z
Hey, Trefor! Nice to "see" you. It's been a while.
I suspect they don't trot out VPW's name for the general public, but I have a hunch he's quoted/adulated extensively "within the ranks."
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OldSkool
They keep the website very basic and it is not that important to them. They don't even have an email link on the contact us page. I left in 2008. Since Craig for fired in 2000 they have systematically elevated Wierwille in their teachings, classes, fellowships, etc. If anything I think they are careful to not reference him on the website because they are very diligent to avoid the "cult image" of gathering starry eyed around a central figure. This is one of the main reasons they alternate teachers each week, and the dictator in-chief, Rosalie Rivenbark, hides in the background. Behind the scenes is a different story. Rosalie demands blind obedience, tells people what she thinks they need to know, and fires / demotes dissenters. If she speaks they all run hither and tither like the good little minions they are. I digress. Point being they are still a cult even if at a cursory glance they appear otherwise.
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