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Untoward Secrecy


skyrider
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  • 6 years later...
On 2/26/2011 at 4:16 PM, skyrider said:

Oh yes......it's one thing to read their air-brushed image of "biblical research" in twi's books, magazine, way disciple and corps promo literature, etc....

BUT.......it's quite ANOTHER thing to get a face-melting assault where the sole purpose is to intimidate and overthrow one's ability to objectively ascertain the situation at hand.

The carrot or the stick

Wierwille was able to modify and control others' thinking and behavior with the "carrot." He had organized an hierarchical system wherein one was motivated to get to the next rung of seniority spirititual maturity. Every class and program completed....one was accessing more seniority in the ranks and stronger probability of positioning. And, this positioning gave access to power-levers over others. Once corps/clergy grads had climbed all the rungs......wierwille had no control over them.

Martindale found himself amongst many peers when he took the mantle of twi-presidency. And, from his athletic background.....the "stick" approach seemed to get the most results. Like many coaches, yelling was an accepted approach to "motivate your players." But then, martindale took this all to a whole new level....hyperventilating and froth....and this, disciples were told, was "spiritual anger to back the adversary down."

But no matter the labels, and all.....

1) Behavior control

2) Thought control

3) Information control

4) Emotional control

....if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

Sky, don't forget control over our money; you were expected to give at least 10-15% of your income to TWI, no matter what. If you didn't, woe unto you!!  :nono5:

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On 2/28/2011 at 3:38 PM, Twinky said:

I never heard it in that context.

I heard of this in the context that you simply don't share everything with your spouse. You might be "working" with someone - counselling - and you don't go telling other people's confidences.

But then again, knowing now what I do about some of the "counselling" that went on...that "working" with someone might mean you wouldn't dare share with your spouse what you'd done. Not unless you wanted a frying pan upside the head or at least an almighty row...no, that would require a spouse with "normal" reactions to infidelity.

Lockbox.... :CUSSING:

There is a time and place for keeping things quiet, not blabbing about. But not quite in the context taught by TWI.

Twinky, your last paragraph is great, because it is so true!!  TWI wanted some things to stay quiet, because they were illegal, or unethical, or both.

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On 3/2/2011 at 11:09 PM, Broken Arrow said:

It's like a house, you see. Before you can even approach the pinnacle of lesson #10, you must first "master" lesson #5. The time you spend on lesson #10 is taking away from the time you need to spend on lesson #5. It would be the epitome of pride for you to jump ahead to the other lessons. You were told by the Man of Gawd not to jump ahead in the syllabus (see how green it is?). Since the MOGFOT has said this, you jumping ahead is really a sin against God. If you proceed to lesson #10 before you're ready, you could get possessed, and the devil will steal the greatness and the power of the knowledge of God's matchless Word from your heart and life. The adversary will have free reign to steal, kill, and destroy the joy and comfort of knowing God's Word rightly divided from you. You're roof could cave in at any second. You'll forget how to speak English, and annoying people will enter your home and keep you awake all night with their endless laughter. Stop this madness before it's too late! Please! Because if the other leaders find out that I've allowed you to proceed to lesson #10 against the word of the Man of Gawd, I won't get to be Branch Leader. I won't be able to act cool in front of my other Corps members. It reflects poorly on me.

By the way, since you're in the Advanced Class, you should consider coming into the Way Corps where you can learn the proper way to place spoons on a table.

BA, a lot of people suggested to me after I took the AC, that I should enter the Corps.  Nuts to them; I joined the Navy.

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On 3/3/2011 at 3:25 PM, skyrider said:

This thread is going to the dogs....

But, yeah......that's the one.

Sky, I'm sure you have discussed the porn video on other threads, but could you please tell us why VPW, showed a porn video with a dog, to the Corps??!!  I think if I had seen it, I probably would have barfed, and then left TWI forever.  I have never understood why he would show a group of young Christians a porn video.  Nuts, I never saw any type of porn video while I was in the Navy, thank the good Lord.  However, I guess some of the old timers in the Navy, had a different experience than mine.  Porn videos to a group of Christians??!!  Why??!!

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On 8/6/2017 at 1:23 AM, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Sky, I'm sure you have discussed the porn video on other threads, but could you please tell us why VPW, showed a porn video with a dog, to the Corps??!!  I think if I had seen it, I probably would have barfed, and then left TWI forever.  I have never understood why he would show a group of young Christians a porn video.  Nuts, I never saw any type of porn video while I was in the Navy, thank the good Lord.  However, I guess some of the old timers in the Navy, had a different experience than mine.  Porn videos to a group of Christians??!!  Why??!!

There actually is only one plausible explanation.

Because he liked it.

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On 2/25/2011 at 10:23 PM, skyrider said:

Twi harbors a culture of untoward secrecy.

Hidden from public view, the secret world of wierwille had an inner circle of accomplices who whitewashed his sins. In this hidden culture were perks, payoffs, and privileges of power and control over others.

Martindale, too, was intoxicated with this access to power and privilege. And now, Rivenbark controls the levers of power. Years ago, I predicted that she'd hold onto the presidency for as long as possible. Perhaps, another 10 years?

Many hold the view that twi was/is considered a cult because of it's stance on the trinity or the dead are not alive now. Sheeesh. I never believed either of these two "twi doctrines" BEFORE taking the pfal class. That's not it.

Isolation, coercion and untoward secrecy classify twi as a cult....a dark sinister world.

Click Here

Sky, I thank God I got out of TWI back in 1988.  I think of how we could have ended up, like Jim Jones's followers, and I shudder.

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  • 6 months later...

Okay, okay........I know. 

Looks like I've got too much time on my hands............but, I was searching deeper into that Horowitz article

 

Quote

When Does a Religion Become a Cult?

By MITCH HOROWITZ

America has probably supplied the world with more new religions than any other nation. Since the first half of the 19th century, the country's atmosphere of religious experimentation has produced dozens of movements, from Mormonism to a wide range of nature-based practices grouped under the name Wicca.

By 1970 the religious scholar Jacob Needleman popularized the term "New Religious Movements" (NRM) to classify the new faiths, or variants of old ones, that were being embraced by the Woodstock generation. But how do we tell when a religious movement ceases to be novel or unusual and becomes a cult?

It's a question with a long history in this country. The controversy involving Hollywood writer-director Paul Haggis is only its most recent occurrence. Mr. Haggis left the Church of Scientology and has accused it of abusive practices, including demands that members disconnect from their families, which the church vigorously denies.

To use the term cult too casually risks tarring the merely unconventional, for which America has long been a safe harbor. In the early 19th century, the "Burned-over District" of central New York state—so named for the religious passions of those who settled there following the Revolutionary War—gave rise to a wave of new movements, including Mormonism, Seventh-Day Adventism and Spiritualism (or talking to the dead). It was an era, as historian Sydney E. Ahlstrom wrote, when "Farmers became theologians, offbeat village youths became bishops, odd girls became prophets."

 

Burned-over District  --->   Oneida Community  --->   John Humphrey Noyes

........ "In the fall of 1832, Noyes left Andover to enter the Yale Theological Seminary so that he could devote more time to Bible study.  In addition to attending daily lectures, practicing his preaching technique, and engaging in Biblical study......"

........"Perfectionist leader[edit]

The idea of Perfectionism, that it was possible to be free of sin in this lifetime, caused his friends to think him unbalanced, and he began to be called a heretic by his own professors. From the moment of his conversion, Noyes maintained that because he had surrendered his will to God, everything he chose to do was perfect because his choices “came from a perfect heart”.[6] His theory centered on the idea that the fact that man had an independent will was because of God and that this independent will came from God, therefore rendering it divine. The only way to control mankind’s will was with spiritual direction. Noyes proclaimed that "it was impossible for the Church to compel man to obey the law of God, and to send him to eternal damnation for his failure to do so."

........"The Oneida community’s utopian philosophy focused on the individual relationship to God; it was intended to be a sort of “kingdom of God on earth.” The second focus of the community was sexual morality."

........"Intercourse was spiritual; masturbation and the practice of intercourse without intention to propagate was shameful and wasteful. Noyes' theory of male continence consisted of analyzing sexual intercourse, recognizing in it two distinct acts, the social and the propagative. Noyes believed this to be practical and believed that a man should be content with avoiding the pleasure except when procreation is a desired result. Noyes believed sex limited to traditional Christian marriage practices left most young people facing sexual starvation from puberty (which according to Noyes was 14) to the age of marriage (which was about 24). Noyes' solution was that the young men in the community would practice with the women of the community who had already gone through menopause, until they were able to control their ejaculation. Only Noyes and a few other men had the skills and self-control necessary to participate in sexual intercourse with the young women of the community. Sexual intercourse was communal, it was based on consent, and all sexual unions were documented and regulated. Sexual intercourse was spiritual, and the pairing of man and woman for sexual intercourse in the community had to be approved by a committee, although most of the virgin females of the community were reserved for Noyes."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Self-appointed authoritative leader --->  ...communal living --->   ...utopian doctrine --->  ...sexual intercourse was spiritual --->  ....it ministers to the young people facing sexual starvation  --->  ....and most favored virgin females of the community were reserved for cult leader.

Untoward Secrecy...........INDEED.

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38 minutes ago, skyrider said:

Okay, okay........I know. 

Looks like I've got too much time on my hands............but, I was searching deeper into that Horowitz article

So what? It's a free country... do with your time what you will!

 

Burned-over District  --->   Oneida Community  --->   John Humphrey Noyes

........ "In the fall of 1832, Noyes left Andover to enter the Yale Theological Seminary so that he could devote more time to Bible study.  In addition to attending daily lectures, practicing his preaching technique, and engaging in Biblical study......"

........"Perfectionist leader[edit]

The idea of Perfectionism, that it was possible to be free of sin in this lifetime, caused his friends to think him unbalanced, and he began to be called a heretic by his own professors. From the moment of his conversion, Noyes maintained that because he had surrendered his will to God, everything he chose to do was perfect because his choices “came from a perfect heart”.[6] His theory centered on the idea that the fact that man had an independent will was because of God and that this independent will came from God, therefore rendering it divine. The only way to control mankind’s will was with spiritual direction. Noyes proclaimed that "it was impossible for the Church to compel man to obey the law of God, and to send him to eternal damnation for his failure to do so."

........"The Oneida community’s utopian philosophy focused on the individual relationship to God; it was intended to be a sort of “kingdom of God on earth.” The second focus of the community was sexual morality."

........"Intercourse was spiritual; masturbation and the practice of intercourse without intention to propagate was shameful and wasteful. Noyes' theory of male continence consisted of analyzing sexual intercourse, recognizing in it two distinct acts, the social and the propagative. Noyes believed this to be practical and believed that a man should be content with avoiding the pleasure except when procreation is a desired result. Noyes believed sex limited to traditional Christian marriage practices left most young people facing sexual starvation from puberty (which according to Noyes was 14) to the age of marriage (which was about 24). Noyes' solution was that the young men in the community would practice with the women of the community who had already gone through menopause, until they were able to control their ejaculation. Only Noyes and a few other men had the skills and self-control necessary to participate in sexual intercourse with the young women of the community. Sexual intercourse was communal, it was based on consent, and all sexual unions were documented and regulated. Sexual intercourse was spiritual, and the pairing of man and woman for sexual intercourse in the community had to be approved by a committee, although most of the virgin females of the community were reserved for Noyes."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Self-appointed authoritative leader --->  ...communal living --->   ...utopian doctrine --->  ...sexual intercourse was spiritual --->  ....it ministers to the young people facing sexual starvation  --->  ....and most favored virgin females of the community were reserved for cult leader.

Untoward Secrecy...........INDEED.

Recently, one author connected some dots in American history (500 years of it) showing how America became a Fantasyland for new religions and the implications thereof.

“A provocative new study of America’s cultural history . . . In this absorbing, must-read polemic, Andersen exhaustively chronicles a development eating away at the very foundation of Americanism.”Newsday

A reader said this about the book,
Fantasyland is, as the subtitle says, a 500-year history of the United States, recounted through a particular prism, and I find the thesis convincing and compelling. Andersen's premise is that from colonial days on, America, unlike Europe, has been shaped by people who have been divorced from reality, whether through religious fanaticism (think the Puritans) or prospects of riches (think the Roanoke colony or Jamestown settlers). And that tenacious grip on fantasy over fact has largely guided our nation's history, with new examples emerging in every era. In the aggregate, this elevation of the impossible, the absurd and the unsubstantiated, has repeatedly destroyed lives and gotten us to the sorry place we are today...

Fantasyland won't sit well with people who are deeply religious, as some of the other reviews suggest. Andersen takes repeated and precise aim at mainstream religion, as well as fringe sects like Mormonism and Scientology, He traces how various extreme elements and beliefs have come to influence politics, culture and education, among others. And he doesn't cut New Agey sorts any slack, either. But for those of us who reside mainly in the reality-based community, who believe in science and
empirical evidence and view religious documents like the Bible as metaphorical, not literal, it is an important and valuable analysis of how we have come to the current pass.

 

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