I was so busy trying to figure out where commas went, whether receive was dechomai or lambano, running around to endless meetings and being forbidden from reading the newspaper or staying abreast of current events that I didnt have time to develop my own sense of political awareness or my own viewpoints.
If I voted in my TWI days it was pretty much partyline to whatever some TWI bigwig said. It wasn't always VP, sometimes it was a limb or area coordinator who imo 'should know'.
My political views were severely underdeveloped until long after I got out and I finally had some time to consider what I thought without any outside interference.
the forums here were a huge help in that...
Im pretty much on the opposite end of the political spectrum from anything TWI may have taught at this point.
..."its what you learn after you think you know it all that counts"
then the offshoots didn't get to me fast enough after leaving..
I went to several local offshoot meetings about 9 or ten months after twi. The world didn't come to an end, in fact.. on the way out of the door of my last twi experience, I recognized I had been following a nutcase. Several, including the state guy, with which was the last meeting.
His major concern was obey herr manogawd, and not allowing bread and vegetables to pass his palate, at the same time. Never shall the two meet, in his digestive tract.
maybe a related question would be "how does or did twi doctrines influence your political view" in offshoots?
During my twi involvement......I never cared much for politics.
In the aftermath of "big ministry" sticking their nose into every aspect of my life....
I have NO INTEREST in "big government" anything, having seen that movie before......
I will vote for less government, less spending, less encroachment whichever political tent that happens to be. Labels mean nothing......freedom is everything.
Let me put it this way..... One day at HQ, a corps guy was ranting about the counterfeit of giving to charities like cancer research, helping the poor, et al. He then said"I'm not against charity, as long as it's to a good cause like the NRA or the Republican party".
the way was all about right wing republican agendas -except for abortion.......
My family was democrat. They voted for Kennedy, LBJ, Humphrey, McGovern, and Carter. In 1976 I voted for Ford only because he was from Grand Rapids, MI, where I grew up. Nobody in twi ever directly told me "vote republican" or asked me about my political views, but it seemed that republicans were all Christians and democrats were all liberals. Other than '92 (Perot) and '96 (Clinton) I voted republican.
I can't make any connect between either major party: they can both go to greedy extremes. I don't look to the government for my needs to get met, I look to God first. As long as I can get a job, the economy is good, no matter who the president is.
But since getting into twi it has always seemed right to consider the republican first at election time.
i can't remember but they had some political visitor -- a senator -- to emporia when i was there
and i feel like the way and wierwillie were conservative
who did he go see at the white house at the ball ? it seemed to be a big deal
It was the governor that came to Emporia that year. Supposidely he was impressed with how efficiently he was treated. He was in and out in a matter of minutes. An incumbent state rep also lost his seat due to the Way C of E voting as a block. I think that was pretty much the high water mark for TWI's involvement in politics.
I also remember VP making a big deal about going to Reagan's inaugural and not shaking Reagan's hand. He said he didn't want to cause embarrassment to the President because VP was pegged as a cult leader. He really made himelf look like the caring one. Hmmm....You know, if you do something nice for someone that's one thing. But if you do something nice for someone AND THEN have to advertise it to others, it's rather narcissistic.
I don't think my political views were influenced - I didn't have a vote in the US and things were different elsewhere. As an observer, I did find it odd that a US TWI person might speak of other non-TWI Christians as not knowing anything, being like natural men (!), or even worse (!!), but in a political race a non-TWI Republican would suddenly be "our guy." I suppose that helped me figure out that it didn't matter what people said unless it made sense to me.
Here's the question that I never figured out. I got into a short discussion once with a US person (that I liked very much) about the EU - he seemed to think it was a step down the slippery slope, but he couldn't explain to me why, and all I remember him saying was that the US had never been invaded (in comparison to Europe). I said he should tell that to the nearest tribe, but he meant the political US, not geographical, ha, ha. I've heard some strange things said about the EU, and I've heard others say it's not "spiritual' at all, but economic worry. Was there a TWI policy about the EU or signs of the one-world gov or such?
I don't think my political views were influenced - I didn't have a vote in the US and things were different elsewhere. As an observer, I did find it odd that a US TWI person might speak of other non-TWI Christians as not knowing anything, being like natural men (!), or even worse (!!), but in a political race a non-TWI Republican would suddenly be "our guy." I suppose that helped me figure out that it didn't matter what people said unless it made sense to me.
Here's the question that I never figured out. I got into a short discussion once with a US person (that I liked very much) about the EU - he seemed to think it was a step down the slippery slope, but he couldn't explain to me why, and all I remember him saying was that the US had never been invaded (in comparison to Europe). I said he should tell that to the nearest tribe, but he meant the political US, not geographical, ha, ha. I've heard some strange things said about the EU, and I've heard others say it's not "spiritual' at all, but economic worry. Was there a TWI policy about the EU or signs of the one-world gov or such?
I thought the thing about anything non-TWI as being worldly until it came to a Republican candidate was kind of funny too. Maybe it was the fact that Gahagen was Republican, I don't know.
Please excuse my ignorance, being a typical American that thinks the whole world revolves around only our issues, what do you mean when you say "EU"? Is that the Euro, or are you talking about Europe?
By the way, the U.S. mainland was invaded by the British during the war of 1812. They almost burned down the White House. There a famous story about Dolly Madison, wife of President James Madison, who, when being evacuated rescued George Washington's portrait at the expense of her personal belongings. She was sure the British would have destroyed it, which they probably would have.
The country that hasn't been invaded for over a century, maybe two centuries, is England. England was bombed during WW II, but never invaded. So, you're friend was wrong even in terms of what you call the "political U.S."
I also remember VP making a big deal about going to Reagan's inaugural and not shaking Reagan's hand. He said he didn't want to cause embarrassment to the President because VP was pegged as a cult leader. He really made himelf look like the caring one. Hmmm....You know, if you do something nice for someone that's one thing. But if you do something nice for someone AND THEN have to advertise it to others, it's rather narcissistic.
You could always tell when vpw was lying- his lips were moving.
There's little reason to think he got to SEE Reagan, let alone meet him.
We discussed this before on other threads...
In 1981, Wierwille obtained an invitation to one of the events of Ronald Reagan's inauguration, and word filtered down through the ministry that Wierwille had access to the president himself. Word had it that Reagan was a "believer", and since the word was used exclusively of Way members, some took this to mean that Reagan was catually a follower of The Way. As evidence, the proponents of this theory would say "Have you ever seen Ronald Reagan going to church?"
In a Jan. 1981 newsletter to Ohio believers, state leader Bob Mirabito wrote: "Dr. Wierwille has personally been invited by President-Elect Ronald Reagan to the Inauguration Ball this January 20th. It is not one of the sattelite balls. There will be only 1,000 people in attendance".
A spokesman for Reagan's Inaugural Committee, speaking to the Empria Gazette, scoffed at rports that Reagan had personally invited Wierwille to anything. "He would not have been invited by President Reagan and ended up in the same computer lists as the 175,000 others" said committee spokesman Bob Billings.
Billings said that there was no ball with only 1,000 people, and that with roughly 43,000 people attending about nine balls, the average attendance was closer to 5,000. Noting that invitations were handed out on request, Billings also said his office had extended an ivitation to a man who identified himself as "King of the Gypsies", and claimed to represent a union of practicing Gypsies.
On Feb. 9, 1981, Kansas Senator Bob Dole, future Republican presidential nominee, wrote in answer to an inquiry from Herb Diamond: "I realize that there has been a great deal of concern about the participation of Victor Paul Wierwille, leader of THe WAy, in the recent Inaugural activities. I want to assure you that Mr. Wierwille's presence was as a private citizen and not an official guest. It seems that the invitation to Mr. Wierwille came as a result of a routine phone request to a congressional office that a V.P. Wierwille attend an Inaugural event. Whoever took the phone message did not recognize the name, and so it was passed on along with other such requests..His presence in Washington in no way represents any kind of official recognition of him or his organization by the Administration.
quoted from The Cult That Snapped by Karl Kahler, p 124-125
I was once invited to afternoon tea by the Queen of England. Well, ok, it was really the little neighbor girl. But, she let me be Prince William so how cool was that, huh?
Here's the question that I never figured out. I got into a short discussion once with a US person (that I liked very much) about the EU - he seemed to think it was a step down the slippery slope, but he couldn't explain to me why, and all I remember him saying was that the US had never been invaded (in comparison to Europe). I said he should tell that to the nearest tribe, but he meant the political US, not geographical, ha, ha. I've heard some strange things said about the EU, and I've heard others say it's not "spiritual' at all, but economic worry. Was there a TWI policy about the EU or signs of the one-world gov or such?
I remember Lovely Loy sounding off one day (well...more than once) about the European Union and all the countries working together for closer economic union. He had lots of scathing things to say. And (as a European) I could only think, "Keep your bloody nose out of it!"
Who is he to make a statement about Europe, or my own country? What does he know about their politics, individually or collectively? Does he even know where these countries are? My view is in no small measure based on how little most Americans know about Europe - not knowing the countries, or which major city is in which country, etc, etc.
I also thought: that Lovely Loy or his "advisers" perceived the larger economic unit of Europe a threat to US economic interests. With a bigger block and more countries working together, the US economy perhaps couldn't pick off or wedge into smaller countries and use those as a foothold for more economic oppression.
And I further thought: yeah, all right for you to say that...now...now that your States are all one block. Do you want to disband the US union because that union is so evil? No, thought not. You just want to stop others achieving the benefits of cross-border business, multi-nationalism, etc.
Call me carnal-thinking if you like. His opinion wasn't based on anything other than his "spiritual revelation" and we all know how that ended up.
With apologies to those Europhiles among you who do know that Madrid isn't a city in Italy...LOL. And Belgium is not the capital of Holland...ah, where?
How could it not? One party is overtly anti-gay. One party is hyper pro-gun. In the 90's and beyond it was pretty clear who to vote for. That being said, LCM was pretty opinionated about the Gulf War and Bush Sr.'s "new world order" etc. It definitely influenced my political leanings but not explicitly who to vote for. I voted for Perot both times he was on the ballot.
Since then it's kinda been a 180... but not on everything.
I was once invited to afternoon tea by the Queen of England. Well, ok, it was really the little neighbor girl. But, she let me be Prince William so how cool was that, huh?
Frankly, that's a lot more of an honor than going to some ol' inauguration ball; probably more fun too.
I remember Lovely Loy sounding off one day (well...more than once) about the European Union and all the countries working together for closer economic union. He had lots of scathing things to say. And (as a European) I could only think, "Keep your bloody nose out of it!"
Who is he to make a statement about Europe, or my own country? What does he know about their politics, individually or collectively? Does he even know where these countries are? My view is in no small measure based on how little most Americans know about Europe - not knowing the countries, or which major city is in which country, etc, etc.
I also thought: that Lovely Loy or his "advisers" perceived the larger economic unit of Europe a threat to US economic interests. With a bigger block and more countries working together, the US economy perhaps couldn't pick off or wedge into smaller countries and use those as a foothold for more economic oppression.
And I further thought: yeah, all right for you to say that...now...now that your States are all one block. Do you want to disband the US union because that union is so evil? No, thought not. You just want to stop others achieving the benefits of cross-border business, multi-nationalism, etc.
Call me carnal-thinking if you like. His opinion wasn't based on anything other than his "spiritual revelation" and we all know how that ended up.
With apologies to those Europhiles among you who do know that Madrid isn't a city in Italy...LOL. And Belgium is not the capital of Holland...ah, where?
And Holland is in The Netherlands, not "Never Never Land".
As far as the EU, I'm sure a lot of folks see it as one more step toward one-world government which is a sign of the "end times" as discussed in The Book of Revelation. I'm just addressing why some are opposed, or feel threatened by the EU.
I personally think that the United States needs a strong Europe. We need allies, and we need for them to be strong. There have been many times both have turned to the other in a time of need. George W. Bush said the U.S. has no greater friend than England. That probably would have hurt my feelings if I were Canadian, but I believe the point is well taken. Competition is good for the economy and Europeans are simply looking for ways to be stronger. It simply means the U.S. also needs to be more competitive.
I don't understand what you mean when you speak of "U.S. economic repression". You're not the first non-American I've heard say that, but I don't see it. I would like to be enlightened.
I have never thought about the U.S. states "being one block". That is a very interesting perspective to me. I see it as different as the EU because in the U.S. the federal government has the final say. With the EU there has to be consensus amongst the countries, correct?
And yes, Loy used to talk about it as a step to "one world" government and devil-control, or whatever...without (it seemed to me) thinking of all those US states all falling under Federal jurisdiction
And Holland is in The Netherlands, not "Never Never Land"
Holland is The Netherlands (not just "in" The Netherlands).
I have never thought about the U.S. states "being one block". That is a very interesting perspective to me. I see it as different as the EU because in the U.S. the federal government has the final say. With the EU there has to be consensus amongst the countries, correct?
Do you really not think of the US as being one block?
Do you-all think of yourselves as being Texan/Californian/Alaskan etc first, and then American second?
Or are you American first, then Texan/Californian/Alaskan etc.
Maybe you do think of yourselves by State, since each State is so big and the lot of you are so much one continent (excluding Hawai'i).
Certainly in the EU people see themselves as Brit, or French, or Spanish...and then European. In Britain we might also think of ourselves as English, Welsh, Scottish or Irish before thinking of ourselves as British. And some Brits are not altogether sure they are or want to be Europeans. Like Europeans are some other species. Maybe French and Germans (the original EU countries, straight after WW2) would think more of themselves as Europeans...but each country is still so different.
The European Parliament is now the highest rule-maker for each country...it makes laws and countries have to bring their own legislation into line with it. This is not always a welcome or happy process (says she, in true Brit fashion, understating how things go!).
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excathedra
oh veepee was mad about somethin i remember that much lindyhopper is mydaddy!!!!!!
mstar1
I was....
not so much anymore....
I was so busy trying to figure out where commas went, whether receive was dechomai or lambano, running around to endless meetings and being forbidden from reading the newspaper or staying abreast of current events that I didnt have time to develop my own sense of political awareness or my own viewpoints.
If I voted in my TWI days it was pretty much partyline to whatever some TWI bigwig said. It wasn't always VP, sometimes it was a limb or area coordinator who imo 'should know'.
My political views were severely underdeveloped until long after I got out and I finally had some time to consider what I thought without any outside interference.
the forums here were a huge help in that...
Im pretty much on the opposite end of the political spectrum from anything TWI may have taught at this point.
..."its what you learn after you think you know it all that counts"
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OldSkool
TWI = republican. It's rare to find democratic leanings around HQ. They loved George W. Bush and even had his picture on the wall in the OSC.
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Ham
During involvement in twi, a lot. Now, not.
then the offshoots didn't get to me fast enough after leaving..
I went to several local offshoot meetings about 9 or ten months after twi. The world didn't come to an end, in fact.. on the way out of the door of my last twi experience, I recognized I had been following a nutcase. Several, including the state guy, with which was the last meeting.
His major concern was obey herr manogawd, and not allowing bread and vegetables to pass his palate, at the same time. Never shall the two meet, in his digestive tract.
maybe a related question would be "how does or did twi doctrines influence your political view" in offshoots?
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skyrider
During my twi involvement......I never cared much for politics.
In the aftermath of "big ministry" sticking their nose into every aspect of my life....
I have NO INTEREST in "big government" anything, having seen that movie before......
I will vote for less government, less spending, less encroachment whichever political tent that happens to be. Labels mean nothing......freedom is everything.
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hiway29
Let me put it this way..... One day at HQ, a corps guy was ranting about the counterfeit of giving to charities like cancer research, helping the poor, et al. He then said"I'm not against charity, as long as it's to a good cause like the NRA or the Republican party".
the way was all about right wing republican agendas -except for abortion.......
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Ham
well.. but then again.. they favored abortion, when it was convenient..
at least the way I understood things..
I dunno.. maybe we are saying the same thing..
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johniam
I consider myself 'apolitical'.
But to answer the question, yes.
My family was democrat. They voted for Kennedy, LBJ, Humphrey, McGovern, and Carter. In 1976 I voted for Ford only because he was from Grand Rapids, MI, where I grew up. Nobody in twi ever directly told me "vote republican" or asked me about my political views, but it seemed that republicans were all Christians and democrats were all liberals. Other than '92 (Perot) and '96 (Clinton) I voted republican.
I can't make any connect between either major party: they can both go to greedy extremes. I don't look to the government for my needs to get met, I look to God first. As long as I can get a job, the economy is good, no matter who the president is.
But since getting into twi it has always seemed right to consider the republican first at election time.
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Ham
you would not believe how happy you made me, saying this..
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excathedra
i can't remember but they had some political visitor -- a senator -- to emporia when i was there
and i feel like the way and wierwillie were conservative
who did he go see at the white house at the ball ? it seemed to be a big deal
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Broken Arrow
It was the governor that came to Emporia that year. Supposidely he was impressed with how efficiently he was treated. He was in and out in a matter of minutes. An incumbent state rep also lost his seat due to the Way C of E voting as a block. I think that was pretty much the high water mark for TWI's involvement in politics.
I also remember VP making a big deal about going to Reagan's inaugural and not shaking Reagan's hand. He said he didn't want to cause embarrassment to the President because VP was pegged as a cult leader. He really made himelf look like the caring one. Hmmm....You know, if you do something nice for someone that's one thing. But if you do something nice for someone AND THEN have to advertise it to others, it's rather narcissistic.
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cara
Helloooo - I have another question!
I don't think my political views were influenced - I didn't have a vote in the US and things were different elsewhere. As an observer, I did find it odd that a US TWI person might speak of other non-TWI Christians as not knowing anything, being like natural men (!), or even worse (!!), but in a political race a non-TWI Republican would suddenly be "our guy." I suppose that helped me figure out that it didn't matter what people said unless it made sense to me.
Here's the question that I never figured out. I got into a short discussion once with a US person (that I liked very much) about the EU - he seemed to think it was a step down the slippery slope, but he couldn't explain to me why, and all I remember him saying was that the US had never been invaded (in comparison to Europe). I said he should tell that to the nearest tribe, but he meant the political US, not geographical, ha, ha. I've heard some strange things said about the EU, and I've heard others say it's not "spiritual' at all, but economic worry. Was there a TWI policy about the EU or signs of the one-world gov or such?
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Broken Arrow
I thought the thing about anything non-TWI as being worldly until it came to a Republican candidate was kind of funny too. Maybe it was the fact that Gahagen was Republican, I don't know.
Please excuse my ignorance, being a typical American that thinks the whole world revolves around only our issues, what do you mean when you say "EU"? Is that the Euro, or are you talking about Europe?
By the way, the U.S. mainland was invaded by the British during the war of 1812. They almost burned down the White House. There a famous story about Dolly Madison, wife of President James Madison, who, when being evacuated rescued George Washington's portrait at the expense of her personal belongings. She was sure the British would have destroyed it, which they probably would have.
The country that hasn't been invaded for over a century, maybe two centuries, is England. England was bombed during WW II, but never invaded. So, you're friend was wrong even in terms of what you call the "political U.S."
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Bolshevik
Growing up I always remember leadership saying it's up to the individual how they vote.
I remember individuals typically gathering around leadership asking them who they think LCM would vote for.
Leadership usually said they didn't know but that LCM probably would vote for ________ .
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waysider
EU = European Union
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union
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johniam
Back in early '08 when that campaign got going a spinoff sent a letter as much as telling people not to vote for Hillary Clinton or Mike Huckabee.
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WordWolf
You could always tell when vpw was lying- his lips were moving.
There's little reason to think he got to SEE Reagan, let alone meet him.
We discussed this before on other threads...
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waysider
I was once invited to afternoon tea by the Queen of England. Well, ok, it was really the little neighbor girl. But, she let me be Prince William so how cool was that, huh?
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Twinky
I remember Lovely Loy sounding off one day (well...more than once) about the European Union and all the countries working together for closer economic union. He had lots of scathing things to say. And (as a European) I could only think, "Keep your bloody nose out of it!"
Who is he to make a statement about Europe, or my own country? What does he know about their politics, individually or collectively? Does he even know where these countries are? My view is in no small measure based on how little most Americans know about Europe - not knowing the countries, or which major city is in which country, etc, etc.
I also thought: that Lovely Loy or his "advisers" perceived the larger economic unit of Europe a threat to US economic interests. With a bigger block and more countries working together, the US economy perhaps couldn't pick off or wedge into smaller countries and use those as a foothold for more economic oppression.
And I further thought: yeah, all right for you to say that...now...now that your States are all one block. Do you want to disband the US union because that union is so evil? No, thought not. You just want to stop others achieving the benefits of cross-border business, multi-nationalism, etc.
Call me carnal-thinking if you like. His opinion wasn't based on anything other than his "spiritual revelation" and we all know how that ended up.
With apologies to those Europhiles among you who do know that Madrid isn't a city in Italy...LOL. And Belgium is not the capital of Holland...ah, where?
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lindyhopper
How could it not? One party is overtly anti-gay. One party is hyper pro-gun. In the 90's and beyond it was pretty clear who to vote for. That being said, LCM was pretty opinionated about the Gulf War and Bush Sr.'s "new world order" etc. It definitely influenced my political leanings but not explicitly who to vote for. I voted for Perot both times he was on the ballot.
Since then it's kinda been a 180... but not on everything.
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mstar1
Off Topic-
This is one of those days that I really wish the political forums were still open for discussion.
This is a months worth with lots of spinoff threads....
O well ----
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waysider
When did "liberal" become a religious belief?
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Broken Arrow
Frankly, that's a lot more of an honor than going to some ol' inauguration ball; probably more fun too.
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Broken Arrow
And Holland is in The Netherlands, not "Never Never Land".
As far as the EU, I'm sure a lot of folks see it as one more step toward one-world government which is a sign of the "end times" as discussed in The Book of Revelation. I'm just addressing why some are opposed, or feel threatened by the EU.
I personally think that the United States needs a strong Europe. We need allies, and we need for them to be strong. There have been many times both have turned to the other in a time of need. George W. Bush said the U.S. has no greater friend than England. That probably would have hurt my feelings if I were Canadian, but I believe the point is well taken. Competition is good for the economy and Europeans are simply looking for ways to be stronger. It simply means the U.S. also needs to be more competitive.
I don't understand what you mean when you speak of "U.S. economic repression". You're not the first non-American I've heard say that, but I don't see it. I would like to be enlightened.
I have never thought about the U.S. states "being one block". That is a very interesting perspective to me. I see it as different as the EU because in the U.S. the federal government has the final say. With the EU there has to be consensus amongst the countries, correct?
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Twinky
Thanks, BA.
And yes, Loy used to talk about it as a step to "one world" government and devil-control, or whatever...without (it seemed to me) thinking of all those US states all falling under Federal jurisdiction
Holland is The Netherlands (not just "in" The Netherlands).
Do you really not think of the US as being one block?
Do you-all think of yourselves as being Texan/Californian/Alaskan etc first, and then American second?
Or are you American first, then Texan/Californian/Alaskan etc.
Maybe you do think of yourselves by State, since each State is so big and the lot of you are so much one continent (excluding Hawai'i).
Certainly in the EU people see themselves as Brit, or French, or Spanish...and then European. In Britain we might also think of ourselves as English, Welsh, Scottish or Irish before thinking of ourselves as British. And some Brits are not altogether sure they are or want to be Europeans. Like Europeans are some other species. Maybe French and Germans (the original EU countries, straight after WW2) would think more of themselves as Europeans...but each country is still so different.
For anyone that's interested: European Union
The European Parliament is now the highest rule-maker for each country...it makes laws and countries have to bring their own legislation into line with it. This is not always a welcome or happy process (says she, in true Brit fashion, understating how things go!).
Anyway, sorry, this has gone way
.
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