Well, Doctor said.......

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 8/10/2011 at 10:38 AM, rascal said:

Um what is disrespectful about pointing out the fact that he wasn`t a doctor,that in using the title the man was a fraud, a liar?

VPW didn`t have the education or credentials of a doctor, maybe that was why he proved so unqualified to teach, to minister to, and conduct himself as a christian leader. That would explain his many shortcomings.

Maybe if he had had the discipline, the stamina and endurance required to work and honestly earn that doctorate, he might also have developed the character and maturity necessary to be dealing with peoples lives and spiritual well being.

Presenting himself as a doctor was a flat out lie. Presenting himself as a Christian or leader on behalf of God was an obscenity.

Rascal, you are so right!!  Rascal Rocks!

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 8/15/2011 at 5:14 PM, Steve Lortz said:

"Doctor" was not his name. His name was Victor Paul Wierwille. "Doctor" is a title that should be earned on one's own merit. The only title Wierwille earned on his own merit was "Predatory Pervert". Wierwille liked to think of himself as a general. The only military title Wierwille would have qualified for would have been "Martinet".

Love,

Steve

Steve, great post!  I just want to add my two cents. I think VPW could have been a General in the Devil's Army; he put so many people through hell.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 8/15/2011 at 7:27 PM, OldSkool said:

I dunno.....long before I left the way international.....along about the time Craiggers got the boot.....I came to the very relevant conclusion...."who gives a d@mn what he said."

OS, bingo!  Personally, I don't give a S--t what VPW, or LCM said.  But, I do care what they did.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 8/17/2011 at 2:14 PM, Broken Arrow said:

Didn't Wierwille get a doctorate? Yes, the "institution" that supposidely issued it was a joke. No, he didn't have to work very hard for it. The place was more of a degree granting mill, but didn't they give him a doctorate, and weren't they legally allowed to do so?

His "doctorate" is not in theology, it's in homiletics which, according to Wierwille, is the "art of preaching".

By the way, even if he earned his degree from Fuller, or some very prestigious institution it wouldn't change my opinion one iota. He was still wrong with or without a degree.

BA, you nailed it!  With, or without a degree, VPW was a POS.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 8/17/2011 at 9:35 PM, WordWolf said:

vpw was granted a doctorate from an UNACCREDITED INSTITUTION.

To paraphrase Al Franken on this subject, "They have as much authority to grant a degree

as Schlotsky's Deli does!"

Legally, they were ALLOWED to do so. And the title is worth the breath it takes to pronounce it.

legally, ANYONE can issue a Doctorate which is equally worthless.

That's why I have THREE Doctorates, all of which are equally worthless to vpw's, which, possibly,

makes me triple the "doctor" he ever was.

(For those who missed it some time ago, "Doctor WordWolf" has been granted Doctorates in the fields of

Theology, Bible Truths, and Using Boldface Type To Make His Posts Easier To Read.

That was all done at the GSC. And it's all just as legal as vpw's "doctorate" with no less

legal authority than his had.)

vpw himself made a big deal if anyone called him "MISTER wierwille" despite that being

legally correct and proper.

I heard others typically call him "Doctor" as if that was his name, with no reference

as to which "Doctor", as if there's only one. It's like saying "Elvis" and expecting

everyone else to know you meant "Presley" and not, say, "Costello".

I called him "Doc" typically (which still supposed he had a PhD), and it seemed to offend

and shock QUITE a number of people.

WW, VPW was a Bullsheeter for most of his life; perhaps he had a Ph.D in Bullsheet.  Just my two cents.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 8/21/2011 at 6:42 AM, johniam said:

quote: I've no doubt that if you said that in a real ex way gathering instead of this virtual meeting space,

I'm going to a "real" exway gathering today. It's called fellowship. Been going to this particular fellowship for 6 1/2 years. Plenty of females there. Haven't been slapped yet.

John, thank God I don't go to your fellowship; I would kick your azz.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 8/22/2011 at 8:14 PM, waysider said:

Josef Mengele was a real doctor.

Doctorates aren't always what they're cracked up to be.

I'm just sayin'

Way, yes he was.  And an evil one to boot.  

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 8/27/2011 at 1:33 PM, Broken Arrow said:

Personally, I was not involved with TWI, nor did I swallow the doctrine hook, line, and sinker because I thought Wierwille was a doctor. Nor did I leave TWI and forsake their doctrine just because I learned his credentials were questionable. Even if VP earned a doctorate in theology from a respected institution, I still would not be fellowshipping with TWI based on other criteria. For me this is a non-issue. It may be of interest, however, to those who believe VP was a doctor of theology.

BA, great post!!  People can believe whatever they want about VPW; I think he was a POS. Some may agree with me, and some may disagree.  But that is my honest opinion of VPW.

[skyrider]

On ‎8‎/‎7‎/‎2011 at 0:15 AM, dabobbada said:

I'm in 100% agreement with socks.

I got into TWI in '73 and lived 70 miles from HQ. I was there nearly every Sunday. Early TWI was completely the opposite of what it became. Very laid back and casual. Dress code was casually elegant but if the best you had was a paisley shirt and faded jeans, that was cool.

The aura of "The Farm" (it really was a farm) was one of tenderness and tons of manifested love back then.

One post I strongly remembered, I think on early greasespot,and I think it was David Anderson. The incident happened in '74. He was working in an office at HQ and VeePee walked in, apparently agitated. He then complained to David that love wasn't working. I guess he didn't think people were walking in love fast or hard enough.

(Meybe too many girls were turning down his offers.)

I do know that Anderson was one of TWI's most major and honored movers until then and then disappeared off the scene in the manner that later became so common.

As to using the term doctor, it became the official nickname for VeePee and with 22 years of habit behind me, I find it is still the first word for him that comes to mind. I then have to go to my mental thesaurus to remember his other aliases.

 

1974   --    Veepee complained to David Anderson that love wasn't working.......

Say what ???????

So, if you can't dazzle them with (feigned) love.........verbally assault them with FEAR.   

[Grace Valerie Claire]

4 minutes ago, skyrider said:

 

1974   --    Veepee complained to David Anderson that love wasn't working.......

Say what ???????

So, if you can't dazzle them with (feigned) love.........verbally assault them with FEAR.   

Or baffle them with Bullsheet!

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 8/26/2011 at 9:50 PM, Raf said:

Every time I see this thread, I want to shout "no more monkeys jumping on the bed!"

Mama called the doctor, and the doctor said, no more monkeys jumping off the bed!!

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 8/30/2011 at 1:39 PM, Raf said:

First of all, let's clarify something: I refuse to even discuss the issue if the opening line was "If he wasn't really a doctor..."

Ok? There's no "if." There's a "Now that it's been established," but that's far different from "if."

If you want to start the dialogue with "If he wasn't really a doctor," then you are starting with the premise that he WAS really a doctor, and you must thus abandon the "but it doesn't matter to me" position you took earlier, seeing as it clearly DOES matter to you.

"If the moon isn't made of green cheese, then why didn't you challenge it before you were born?"

The second half is not worth addressing because the first half is absurd.

"If Elvis isn't really alive, what about the people who've spotted him in Alabama truck stops?"

See? The second half doesn't need to be addressed because the first half is so silly.

"If Wierwille wasn't a doctor, why didn't you call him on it before he died?"

If? IF?? Ain't no if.

Raf, thanks for your post!  You said it so well, that I have nothing to add.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 8/31/2011 at 9:01 AM, geisha779 said:

Not all degrees from non-accredited institutions are bogus are they? Some are well recognized within specific fields. Some states allow licensing for non-accredited degree holders in certain areas. Some are even prestigious degrees. It all depends on where they come from, the program, and the degree. No? Or do I have this confused. I don't think I do.

Some Christian schools may opt out of or be denied accreditation for doctrinal reasons. A few that have been accredited in the last few years, have been well respected institutions within their field without accreditation.

There are more non accredited "degree mills" than not, but lack of accreditation does not automatically make a school a degree mill does it? It is also a matter of regional, national, and international recognition.

Do the schools where VP "bought" his degree even exist anymore? I could find very little non TWI related information. The information that I did find simply stated that Pikes Peak was a diploma mill. Interestingly, it churned out more than one nut job. VP was in some illustrious company. Billy James Hargis?

Is the info about the school out there somewhere? I would be curious to see it and it would probably good for a few of us to actually understand what it means to buy a degree as opposed to earning it. It speaks to character. It speaks to commitment. If these were lacking in VP's approach to the bible even then.....it may be more difficult to deny the importance of what his assumed title really means.

However, he was a trained theologian wasn't he? No? Are his other degrees legit? He did have some credentials. He was deemed qualified in some ways by some accredited institutions.

To me, THAT is the irony.....because he was not qualified according to the very faith and book he claimed for himself....and that bothers me far more than his title or lack of legitimate title. That causes me to ponder people's continual commitment to the man and his theology far more than what they call him or if he was a genuine PhD holder. It is more difficult to escape the reality of our blind devotion to a man instead of God when his qualifications are held up to the light of scripture. That is when we make the choice who to follow or believe.....in my opinion.

779, great post!  I think VPW lacked the Intelligence, and self-discipline to get a Ph.D.  I have an MA, and that was a lot of work. No way would I want to get a Ph.D.  It would be a lot of hard work, and I don't need one. But then, I don't Bullsheet people either, like VPW did.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 9/2/2011 at 11:44 PM, Steve Lortz said:

If I turned in something like "Receiving The Holy Spirit Today" for one of my writing assignments, my prof would flunk me, not for the content, but for the lack of scholarly integrity.

Love,

Steve

Steve, if I was a Prof, and you turned RTHST, I would flunk you also.  I thought it was a poorly-written piece of garbage.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 9/4/2011 at 3:52 PM, GeorgeStGeorge said:

Yes. The "snow on the gas pumps" story could have been a vision. (Who else saw a tablecloth with unclean animals land on Peter's roof?) But the "snow in Tulsa" story just doesn't add up. "God made me see snow and hear voices telling me the transit systems were shut down" just doesn't make any sense. Lying is a far more likely explanation.

George

George, perhaps he was hearing voices, and seeing things that really weren't there.  But, I think you are right; I think he lied about the gas pumps having snow on them.