quote: If the Bible is all that it's touted to be, it should be able to withstand the same sort of scrutiny as a secular work. It should be readable by Christian and Non-Christian alike. A Hindu or Buddhist should be able to read Proverbs and come away with no less enlightenment than a Christian. To think otherwise, borders on elitism.
For what it's worth, John Schoenheit used to teach that the ideas in the book of Proverbs were known to that part of the world for 1,000 years before Solomon copied them down. That it was like 'street wisdom'. Riddles. Things to whet the appetite of intelligent folks. That God wanted it in His word. That doesn't exactly line up with 'God breathed' nor with elitism. As for Paul's epistles, AFTER the day of Pentecost, it says the natural man receives not the things of the spirit of God. That's not elitism, it's just 'progress'. If you own a car, you can do more than if you only have a bicycle. The gift of holy spirit is very real.
I mean, face it, everybody privately interprets whatever comes to them, whether it's from scripture or some other source. It's always fun at fellowship when some self appointed nazi lies in wait for you to say something prompting them to pounce on you and say "No PI, no PI!" This doesn't help the thinking process. But I don't think it's dangerous to look at scripture as inerrant as long as you can make adjustments and admit you don't know it all. Nobody knows it all except God.
quote: Whatever happened to "God is no respecter of persons."?
Not a thing. Any person who confesses with their mouth the Lord Jesus and believes in their heart that God raised him from the dead has access to the deep things of God. Again you speak with forked tongue. You think VP should be penalized above other persons for his evil, but you don't think God's people should be rewarded above other persons for their good.
You think VP should be penalized above other persons for his evil, but you don't think God's people should be rewarded above other persons for their good.
understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest; recondite: poetry full of esoteric allusions.
2.
belonging to the select few.
3.
private; secret; confidential.
4.
(of a philosophical doctrine or the like) intended to be revealed only to the initiates of a group: the esoteric doctrines of Pythagoras.
============================================
Whatever happened to "God is no respecter of persons."?
NO offense intended, but this post reminds me of how we would throw out a single verse of scripture in TWI to shore up some argument or another, usually to keep people all thinking the same way. It was as if something should immediately spring to mind when hearing a stand alone verse taken out of context and applied to vague reasoning. Sometimes, a few words would suffice for us in TWI ..."I can do all things'......"Christ in me"......"more than a conqueror"......"exceedingly above"......"by His stripes".......scary how many I can remember.
I am sure it wasn't meant that way from you Waysider, sincerely, but I am overly sensitive to that particular tactic. Years of that kind of conditioning and years of overcoming that conditioning have taken their toll on me and I am probably hyper aware of certain triggers.
Presumably, you are confident enough in what that one verse means to take it from the whole, from it's direct context........and attempt to make a point of argument with it. If that is the case.....maybe a knowledge of the scriptures is not so esoteric.
To answer your question....nothing happened to it......God is no respecter of persons.....gender, race, economic status....and past sins do not serve to keep one from coming to God as He requires. In faith. Nothing, in this country at least, prevents you from picking up a bible.....learning about Jesus Christ.....coming to know Him, what He is like, and deciding what you want to do with that info....
I will tell you that it does help to really get to know someone when trying to understand what they are saying.......to understand why they do certain things. Christians often call Jesus incomparable.....He isn't like us....His dealings with people, His claims, His actions......difficult to compare. That is why Jesus said "I AM".
It does help to know how He operated and why He said and did the things He did.....before we decide He simply must be contradicting Himself. :)
The point of the bible is not to know the bible it is to know Jesus Christ......who reconciled all things.
Interesting discussion! I won't add to it other than WW mention of reading Hamlet at different levels of maturity and 'book sleuthing' seems to be an important key...and I guess I don't see Jesus of the gospels as a teacher who tried to make anything 'easy' for the student. He would tell shocking stories and make people think and consider.
I read the article too. I don't really care if someone believes in Evolution, or is anti abortion. I DO care if they try to make their doctrine the rule of the land , and I do find the current crop of Dominionist groups scary and think they are potentially dangerous, especially as they seem to be acceptable to the Evangelical church as a whole...just my opinion.
I've been reading The Seven Pillars of Creation by William P. Brown. All I can say is: "What a colossally ignorant man Wierwille was! What colossal ignorance he promoted!"
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waysider
And therein lies the crux of the issue. In The Way, we were told we were being given the necessary tools to do independent research (cough), yet if one were to venture outside the prescribed doctrine
WordWolf
I prefer to say that "the Theory of Evolution" HAS NOT MADE ITS CASE. If it is true and correct, I have not been presented with sufficient evidence to support the major points that are claimed. Adhe
waysider
As would I, as well.....ALL is much too far-reaching a word to use. My point was simply this: We often hear the argument being presented that this country was based on Christian principles. That is n
johniam
quote: If the Bible is all that it's touted to be, it should be able to withstand the same sort of scrutiny as a secular work. It should be readable by Christian and Non-Christian alike. A Hindu or Buddhist should be able to read Proverbs and come away with no less enlightenment than a Christian. To think otherwise, borders on elitism.
For what it's worth, John Schoenheit used to teach that the ideas in the book of Proverbs were known to that part of the world for 1,000 years before Solomon copied them down. That it was like 'street wisdom'. Riddles. Things to whet the appetite of intelligent folks. That God wanted it in His word. That doesn't exactly line up with 'God breathed' nor with elitism. As for Paul's epistles, AFTER the day of Pentecost, it says the natural man receives not the things of the spirit of God. That's not elitism, it's just 'progress'. If you own a car, you can do more than if you only have a bicycle. The gift of holy spirit is very real.
I mean, face it, everybody privately interprets whatever comes to them, whether it's from scripture or some other source. It's always fun at fellowship when some self appointed nazi lies in wait for you to say something prompting them to pounce on you and say "No PI, no PI!" This doesn't help the thinking process. But I don't think it's dangerous to look at scripture as inerrant as long as you can make adjustments and admit you don't know it all. Nobody knows it all except God.
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waysider
es·o·ter·ic
   [es-uh-ter-ik]
adjective
1.
understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest; recondite: poetry full of esoteric allusions.
2.
belonging to the select few.
3.
private; secret; confidential.
4.
(of a philosophical doctrine or the like) intended to be revealed only to the initiates of a group: the esoteric doctrines of Pythagoras.
============================================
Whatever happened to "God is no respecter of persons."?
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
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johniam
quote: Whatever happened to "God is no respecter of persons."?
Not a thing. Any person who confesses with their mouth the Lord Jesus and believes in their heart that God raised him from the dead has access to the deep things of God. Again you speak with forked tongue. You think VP should be penalized above other persons for his evil, but you don't think God's people should be rewarded above other persons for their good.
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waysider
Where did I say this?
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johniam
Where HAVEN'T you?
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waysider
I thought my question was pretty straight forward. The old "answer a question with a question." doesn't fly anymore.
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OldSkool
He hasn't been able to hijack a thread in a while so it would seem he is working a little harder than usual.
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geisha779
NO offense intended, but this post reminds me of how we would throw out a single verse of scripture in TWI to shore up some argument or another, usually to keep people all thinking the same way. It was as if something should immediately spring to mind when hearing a stand alone verse taken out of context and applied to vague reasoning. Sometimes, a few words would suffice for us in TWI ..."I can do all things'......"Christ in me"......"more than a conqueror"......"exceedingly above"......"by His stripes".......scary how many I can remember.
I am sure it wasn't meant that way from you Waysider, sincerely, but I am overly sensitive to that particular tactic. Years of that kind of conditioning and years of overcoming that conditioning have taken their toll on me and I am probably hyper aware of certain triggers.
Presumably, you are confident enough in what that one verse means to take it from the whole, from it's direct context........and attempt to make a point of argument with it. If that is the case.....maybe a knowledge of the scriptures is not so esoteric.
To answer your question....nothing happened to it......God is no respecter of persons.....gender, race, economic status....and past sins do not serve to keep one from coming to God as He requires. In faith. Nothing, in this country at least, prevents you from picking up a bible.....learning about Jesus Christ.....coming to know Him, what He is like, and deciding what you want to do with that info....
I will tell you that it does help to really get to know someone when trying to understand what they are saying.......to understand why they do certain things. Christians often call Jesus incomparable.....He isn't like us....His dealings with people, His claims, His actions......difficult to compare. That is why Jesus said "I AM".
It does help to know how He operated and why He said and did the things He did.....before we decide He simply must be contradicting Himself. :)
The point of the bible is not to know the bible it is to know Jesus Christ......who reconciled all things.
My opinion ....... nothing more....
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waysider
No offense taken.
This was simply meant to further explain what I meant in a previous post when I said it had an "esoteric twist".
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Bramble
Interesting discussion! I won't add to it other than WW mention of reading Hamlet at different levels of maturity and 'book sleuthing' seems to be an important key...and I guess I don't see Jesus of the gospels as a teacher who tried to make anything 'easy' for the student. He would tell shocking stories and make people think and consider.
I read the article too. I don't really care if someone believes in Evolution, or is anti abortion. I DO care if they try to make their doctrine the rule of the land , and I do find the current crop of Dominionist groups scary and think they are potentially dangerous, especially as they seem to be acceptable to the Evangelical church as a whole...just my opinion.
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Steve Lortz
I've been reading The Seven Pillars of Creation by William P. Brown. All I can say is: "What a colossally ignorant man Wierwille was! What colossal ignorance he promoted!"
Love,
Steve
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