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Idiom of Permission

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On ‎2‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 8:27 PM, Raf said:

There is nothing in that verse or context that indicates this is a negative trait. Rather, it is included in a list of POSITIVE traits about Job, to show just how devoted he was to God.

To turn that into a display of fear on Job's part is a Wierwillian lie. The text does not support that interpretation. You have to inject a negative meaning into what the author of Job was indicating as a positive trait.

When I first read this, I didn't think it was a "fear" thing for Job.  I thought it was something that a loving and responsible parent might do, to pray for his children.  It took PFAL to show me that it might be a fear-filled thing to do.

Don't parents in our time also pray for their children, to ask for their safety, and to ask for mercy if/when those kids have done foolish things?  God help us all, if the slightest smidgeon of doubt or fear were to open the doors of hell upon us.

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I've never understood TWI's passion for slandering Job. It's almost like they took glee in blaming him for his calamities.

Of course, finding fault is one way for a narcissist to hold himself up as something better than what he's criticizing, and what better way for a cult leader to prop himself up than to point out the flaws in someone the Bible calls "blameless and upright."

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It's of a piece, also, of the magical "Word Faith" system.  They rewrote songs to include it.  I also noticed recently that when they used parts of traditional songs, they always skipped any verse that suggested we might have trouble.    Actually, I noticed it a long time ago with "I Know Who Holds Tomorrow." The missing verse says that tomorrow "may bring me poverty, but the One who feeds the sparrow is the one that cares for me..."   Can't speak of any kind of trouble- or you're blamed when it arrives.   Can't plan for trouble, either, that's "thinking negatively."

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I've completely abandoned the "Word Faith" theology. Took me a while but I finally got it out of my head several years ago. If Job was ultimately at fault for his problems then I guess we are supposed to believe that Peter & Paul were themselves at fault when they were executed by Nero during the mid-60s AD as well as all the Christian martyrs throughout history. It's along the lines of blaming the victim and a reason not to help people who are going through a tough time.  "I'm not going to help you. You just need to believe dammit!"

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Jesus TOLD his disciples that they would have trouble.  There was no "but if you believe, there will be no trouble" or "if you believe, the trouble will vanish" or anything like that.

 

As has been said before, by putting the blame on Job, twi aligned themselves with his miserable comforters.

 

Look- trusting God, believing God, is one thing. Believing in your own believing is something entirely different.  Your will be done.

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1 hour ago, WordWolf said:

Look- trusting God, believing God, is one thing. Believing in your own believing is something entirely different.  Your will be done.

Heh heh heh, WW.

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The moral of Job:

S#!t happens. You gonna let that take your faith away? You really shouldn't. He's still God.

 

I'm not saying I agree with that. I'm just saying, that's the upshot. Elihu rules!

 

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5 hours ago, Raf said:

The moral of Job:

S#!t happens. You gonna let that take your faith away? You really shouldn't. He's still God.

 

I'm not saying I agree with that. I'm just saying, that's the upshot. Elihu rules!

 

One does not have to agree with something to understand it, and it's not impossible to fairly represent something with which you disagree.   Naturally, I think I'm in the minority on that, but, as we see, I'm not the only one who says that. (Even when we disagree on other things. Then again, who agrees on EVERY thing?)

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