Wierwille's "good words and fair speeches".......were plagairized.
Opportunistic and lazy, wierwille lifted passages of scripture, one-liners, catchy slogans, and fiery sermons of others to fool the very elect of God. Yep, "The Red Thread" by Rev. Oral Roberts became an instant classic as wierwille tweaked a few incidentals and basked in the adulation of followers. Even today, there are some who never knew the original and fiery sermon was presented with more fervor and conviction than even wierwille could muster.
It sure is an eye-opener to see that wierwille's whole ministry was built on tweaking others' work. Sure, there's a sliver of lip-service to the other men.......but wierwille stands in the spotlight as the ORIGINATOR of putting it all together. [Which runs at cross-purposes with his "snowstorm revelation" of getting all this "Word" from God....but never mind that little detail.] And, there's a reason why Leonard is rarily mentioned, as his class was the prototype of class-based ministries as are common today. Only when Mrs. Wierwille's book, released in October 1996, did its details spell out the intricacies of wierwille's "eureka" moment when the lightbulbs were flashing in his brain. His whole life pivoted after Leonard's "The Gifts of the Spirit" class.
But really......it all makes perfect sense now. Even in pfal, when vpw spoke in tongues it sounded repetitive, formulaic and fake. Yet, I couldn't perceive this at first...as the information overload, hectic schedule, no time for questions, reading assignments, etc had a way of herding me towards the forgone conclusion of "breathing in holy spirit" for everyone. Yet, as wierwille wraps up the class.....he already starts distancing the importance of that special Father/son relationship and talks in terms of the collective, of standing with the household of twi. Having done all, STAND (with twi).
Today, I simply see wierwille as an opportunist and marketer. He found a product and peddled it.
He added flair and drama and song. His stage presentation was good. And, with the right song.....he could even squeeze out a tear or two. Perhaps, he was thinking about something totally different than the song. I don't know. But with a life of deception and acting, I have my doubts that anything he did was what it seemed to be.
As inresidence corps, on occasion I saw a wierwille who was impatient, cold, deceptive, vehement, guarded and calculating. But that was the exception to the manufactured persona. Rarily was he put in a position that his handlers hadn't established a controlled-environment beforehand. Weeks of prep had gone into his arrival. The entourage of people. The mounting expectation of something great. The meeting had reached the right tempo....songs, manifestations, live music, etc.....and THEN, wierwille enters. A piece of cake. All wierwille had to do was teach some Bible, throw in some dramatic flair, thrust his voice with conviction, and the corps was smitten.
The whole scenario was so well orchestrated, so conceived in detail, so manipulative to target the unsuspecting, how could I have possibly seen......"The Sting" of it all?
Wierwille was the sleazy used car salesman, peddling snake oil as the traveling carnival pitchman. If you agreed with him, he was your best buddy and pal. If not, he became The Incredible Hulk and would bully you, seeing you as his enemy and threat.
i think the only person i heard got healed directly via vp was linda z
some people have said they think wierwille was of the devil's seed. not sure if there is a thread on that
I don't know if there's a thread about it, but I no longer believe it's possible for a person to be "born of the serpent's seed" the way Wierwille taught it in session 13 of PFAL.
I don't know if there's a thread about it, but I no longer believe it's possible for a person to be "born of the serpent's seed" the way Wierwille taught it in session 13 of PFAL.
Love,
Steve
I don't either. Once again, I believe he had it terribly wrong and seemed to be "awed" by the subject.
I was thinking a lot about this stuff with Seed of the Serpent lately... I had a conversation with our parish priest about speaking in tongues (did that before I got into twi, don't see any need to change it - use it as a meditation tool, a lot like how the Rosary is used.). He told me that the "sin against the Holy Spirit" was the worst sin. And that the sin against the Holy Spirit was to prohibit the Holy Spirit from working in others and yourself.
An explanation I had never heard in twi, but one that made sense. And if that is the definition, then vp, lcm, Rosie, and all the rest are guilty of it.
is that a verse they use(d) to "mark and avoid" people?
The very one they used to justify throwing countless people out of their cult and running their name in the mud by labeling them possessed and whatever else they could dream up.
We often see that the least mature can rise to positions of authority over people who are even more mature than they are...mostly because these least mature kinds are not limited by the same moral boundaries when making decisions. Yet the more grown-up we are, the less we are able to lie and harm that way.
Reminds me of so many of the lyrics in the psalms...like ancient jewish blues tunes asking how and why this can be. As we see, in politics, business and religion, it is very difficult to remove such a brute beast once they are in that position.
Which is why the answer is a long term strategy...Teach your children well. It is near impossible to teach a childish adult.
imho...to "blaspheme against the holy spirit" is to avoid, attack or dismiss self-awareness and self-examination. The less aware of our selves we are, we more we are like sleepwalkers. There is no protection from our underlying animal nature. To reject an examination of our consciousness is to add more suffering to the pile we already have. The grief and forgiveness pain lasts long after the beast is dead. Generations...even Millenia.
We often see that the least mature can rise to positions of authority over people who are even more mature than they are...mostly because these least mature kinds are not limited by the same moral boundaries when making decisions. Yet the more grown-up we are, the less we are able to lie and harm that way.
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skyrider
What's more.....
Wierwille's "good words and fair speeches".......were plagairized.
Opportunistic and lazy, wierwille lifted passages of scripture, one-liners, catchy slogans, and fiery sermons of others to fool the very elect of God. Yep, "The Red Thread" by Rev. Oral Roberts became an instant classic as wierwille tweaked a few incidentals and basked in the adulation of followers. Even today, there are some who never knew the original and fiery sermon was presented with more fervor and conviction than even wierwille could muster.
It sure is an eye-opener to see that wierwille's whole ministry was built on tweaking others' work. Sure, there's a sliver of lip-service to the other men.......but wierwille stands in the spotlight as the ORIGINATOR of putting it all together. [Which runs at cross-purposes with his "snowstorm revelation" of getting all this "Word" from God....but never mind that little detail.] And, there's a reason why Leonard is rarily mentioned, as his class was the prototype of class-based ministries as are common today. Only when Mrs. Wierwille's book, released in October 1996, did its details spell out the intricacies of wierwille's "eureka" moment when the lightbulbs were flashing in his brain. His whole life pivoted after Leonard's "The Gifts of the Spirit" class.
But really......it all makes perfect sense now. Even in pfal, when vpw spoke in tongues it sounded repetitive, formulaic and fake. Yet, I couldn't perceive this at first...as the information overload, hectic schedule, no time for questions, reading assignments, etc had a way of herding me towards the forgone conclusion of "breathing in holy spirit" for everyone. Yet, as wierwille wraps up the class.....he already starts distancing the importance of that special Father/son relationship and talks in terms of the collective, of standing with the household of twi. Having done all, STAND (with twi).
Today, I simply see wierwille as an opportunist and marketer. He found a product and peddled it.
He added flair and drama and song. His stage presentation was good. And, with the right song.....he could even squeeze out a tear or two. Perhaps, he was thinking about something totally different than the song. I don't know. But with a life of deception and acting, I have my doubts that anything he did was what it seemed to be.
As inresidence corps, on occasion I saw a wierwille who was impatient, cold, deceptive, vehement, guarded and calculating. But that was the exception to the manufactured persona. Rarily was he put in a position that his handlers hadn't established a controlled-environment beforehand. Weeks of prep had gone into his arrival. The entourage of people. The mounting expectation of something great. The meeting had reached the right tempo....songs, manifestations, live music, etc.....and THEN, wierwille enters. A piece of cake. All wierwille had to do was teach some Bible, throw in some dramatic flair, thrust his voice with conviction, and the corps was smitten.
The whole scenario was so well orchestrated, so conceived in detail, so manipulative to target the unsuspecting, how could I have possibly seen......"The Sting" of it all?
.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Wierwille was the sleazy used car salesman, peddling snake oil as the traveling carnival pitchman. If you agreed with him, he was your best buddy and pal. If not, he became The Incredible Hulk and would bully you, seeing you as his enemy and threat.
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excathedra
i think the only person i heard got healed directly via vp was linda z
some people have said they think wierwille was of the devil's seed. not sure if there is a thread on that
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Steve Lortz
I don't know if there's a thread about it, but I no longer believe it's possible for a person to be "born of the serpent's seed" the way Wierwille taught it in session 13 of PFAL.
Love,
Steve
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OldSkool
I don't either. Once again, I believe he had it terribly wrong and seemed to be "awed" by the subject.
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JavaJane
I was thinking a lot about this stuff with Seed of the Serpent lately... I had a conversation with our parish priest about speaking in tongues (did that before I got into twi, don't see any need to change it - use it as a meditation tool, a lot like how the Rosary is used.). He told me that the "sin against the Holy Spirit" was the worst sin. And that the sin against the Holy Spirit was to prohibit the Holy Spirit from working in others and yourself.
An explanation I had never heard in twi, but one that made sense. And if that is the definition, then vp, lcm, Rosie, and all the rest are guilty of it.
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skyrider
Another classic illustration of how TWI twisted scripture to justify serving their own belly and lusts.
The Apostle Paul's doctrine was of God. Twi's teachings are CONTRARY TO THAT DOCTRINE and, as such, funnel to serve
NOT the Lord Jesus Christ....but their own belly.
Verse 18 is joined with the previous verse --- "For they that are such..."
Notice how twi DOESN'T read the next verse when it DOESN'T fit their agenda?
Why don't they read the next verse? Because it explains who the "they" are.
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OldSkool
I have long marked and avoided TWI.
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excathedra
is that a verse they use(d) to "mark and avoid" people?
excellent verse -- don't remember that one. to me, that is the perfect description of vp wierwille and the hearts of so many lovely people
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OldSkool
The very one they used to justify throwing countless people out of their cult and running their name in the mud by labeling them possessed and whatever else they could dream up.
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sirguessalot
We often see that the least mature can rise to positions of authority over people who are even more mature than they are...mostly because these least mature kinds are not limited by the same moral boundaries when making decisions. Yet the more grown-up we are, the less we are able to lie and harm that way.
Reminds me of so many of the lyrics in the psalms...like ancient jewish blues tunes asking how and why this can be. As we see, in politics, business and religion, it is very difficult to remove such a brute beast once they are in that position.
Which is why the answer is a long term strategy...Teach your children well. It is near impossible to teach a childish adult.
imho...to "blaspheme against the holy spirit" is to avoid, attack or dismiss self-awareness and self-examination. The less aware of our selves we are, we more we are like sleepwalkers. There is no protection from our underlying animal nature. To reject an examination of our consciousness is to add more suffering to the pile we already have. The grief and forgiveness pain lasts long after the beast is dead. Generations...even Millenia.
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skyrider
Yeah.....the reason few remember it, is BECAUSE TWI DELIBERATELY DIDN'T WANT TO LINK THE TWO VERSES TOGETHER.
"For" -- ties v.18 with what was previously stated, v.17.
These verses point out LEADERS who via good words and fair speeches DECEIVE.
It is so obvious that it is NOT what twi claims in their mark/avoid shenanigans.
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excathedra
boy that's the truth my dear t
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Ham
I can't deny her experience either.
But..
I just wonder.. how much spiritual damage was inflicted in the process..
it's like.. he talked about healing being a "gift".. but that was only out of one side of his mouth. What kind of price did he exact for it..
nothing is free..
even "free beer". One is forced to view perhaps one of the worst performances viewed in one's lifetime..
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waysider
The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones. ..........Mark Anthony
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excathedra
i don't think linda z had to pay any price. she was and is a lovely -- you know -- daughter of god -- spiritual person - etc. etc.
i often felt like that was why she got healed
i hope that makes sense
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