And just to further illustrate Wierwille's and TWI's ignorance on the subject. Research has identified five types of alcoholics. Types of Alcoholics AA has known for sometime there are various and sundry types of alcoholics, from binge drinkers to chronic drinkers. Once again, Wierwille shows his vast ignorance speaking on a subject he pretends to know something about and then sums it up as....drum roll please...."their possessed." As as smart as Wierwille could have been had he really applied himself, he was little more than a mental midget in most cases. I wonder what type of alcoholic Wierwille was?
(goes to link OldSkool provided - 5 alcoholic types page 2 - looks over types – copies and pastes functional subtype)
“The functional subtype accounts for about 19% of U.S. alcoholics. They're generally middle-aged, working adults who tend to have stable relationships, more education, and higher incomes than other alcoholics. They tend to drink every other day, often consuming five or more drinks on drinking days.”
To answer an old question by OldSkool, after looking at the link he provided, I think wierwille was a functional subtype of alcoholic…seems to check all the boxes anyway:
middle-aged - about 45 to 65, uh huh…I mean check!
working adults – while he was “working The Word” he had all of us peons working our a$$ off at the Rock, corps week, campus locations, big events…check!
stable relationship - not likely to change or fail; firmly established – yup - wierwille was a harmful and controlling cult-leader. That’s a pretty solid connection between cult-leader and followers, isn’t it? Oh, and technically all the women in the kingdom belong to the king. That’s beaucoup “relationships” right? Check!
more education – personally taught by God. Check!
higher incomes – he was living large thanks to YOUR abundant sharing! Check!
They tend to drink every other day – I think he was drunk EVERY day he taught at PFAL 77. That’s above and beyond the call of functional alcoholic! The Bible says we’re supposed to go the extra mile. Check!
often consuming five or more drinks on drinking days – at Rome City campus I had a closer vantage point than at PFAL 77 – but it’s hard to say how many times his mug of Drambuie was refilled when we were in a meeting (to be honest - sometimes I nodded off and lost count ); and also, that’s not counting when he was backstage or in the Coachmen’s Suite. Check, check, check, check, check, check, check, check ...zzzzzzZZZZZZz
oh well, Twinky I tried.
Edited by T-Bone functional subtype of someone editorializing all out of proportion
Are you suggesting devil spirits are partial entities?
I don't understand your first line.
If I were to research the Leviathan thing I'd start with it's idiomatic usage. It may be similar to the serpent thing in Genesis. I think it was Bishop Pilai who said that though snake or serpent are literal translations, the idiom should steer a translation to the word "enchanter."
No, I wasn't referring to devil being partial there. The partial I was referring to is what's left of a human when possession or oppression are involved. Remembering my original audience of that piece of text, I wanted to communicate other ideas to their secular minds, and mentioning devils is just a distraction to them.
. . .
No, I wasn't referring to devil being partial there. The partial I was referring to is what's left of a human when possession or oppression are involved. Remembering my original audience of that piece of text, I wanted to communicate other ideas to their secular minds, and mentioning devils is just a distraction to them.
I have heard stories (while in New Knoxville) of heads being opened up and parts of the brain being missing . . . due to devil spirits eating away at it. Devil spirits are supposed to be specialists in working on a specific area of the mind (brain). Seed meaning there is a wedge in the door that allows any spirit access at any time, and this is irreversible.
With alcohol, it takes a certain amount of drinking to allow the Spirit of Leviathan in. Or, once out of fellowship for disobedience specifically concerning drinking, the devil spirit has access. Once this bugger is in, there's a process to get him out, yes?
I have heard stories (while in New Knoxville) of heads being opened up and parts of the brain being missing . . . due to devil spirits eating away at it. Devil spirits are supposed to be specialists in working on a specific area of the mind (brain). Seed meaning there is a wedge in the door that allows any spirit access at any time, and this is irreversible.
I never heard anything about physiological changes occurring when I was involved. What was being taught was that access was facilitated by fellowship status and could fluctuate. It was referred to as a "trap door" and your fellowship status determined whether or not the trap door was open. The seed term was used to suggest a person had been born again of the seed of the devil. This is what was taught to be irreversible.
Sorry if this seems off-topic, but if we are drawing parallels between cult recovery and alcoholism recovery, it seems inevitable that tangent discussion will pop up.
My memory is LCM's explanation. The Adversary cannot create. He cannot make a spirit for the individual as God does with holy spirit (lower case). So he puts a "wedge" into a person's "door" - which is what seed is. The singing ladies had a song about keeping the door shut tight.
"Out of fellowship" referred to obedience to God - which could mean many, many things. Not just going to fellowship.
LCM was raging against AA, at the start of this thread. Alcoholism is a devil spirit in his world.
I think it was Bishop Pilai who said that though snake or serpent are literal translations, the idiom should steer a translation to the word "enchanter."
I don't personally put a lot of stock in anything Pillai wrote about oriental customs. He was legitimately credentialed in statistics and mathematics, but his expertise in ancient oriental customs seems to be self-appointed. In fact, there exists a thread on GSC that took a critical look at some of his pronouncements on oriental customs. The findings were less than favorable.
If I were to research the Leviathan thing I'd start with it's idiomatic usage. It may be similar to the serpent thing in Genesis. I think it was Bishop Pilai who said that though snake or serpent are literal translations, the idiom should steer a translation to the word "enchanter."
. . .
Your advice seems to be predicated on the idea that Spirit of Leviathan comes from The Bible?
If someone were to look at the Bible, how would they come to the conclusion that Leviathan has something to do with alcohol? Let alone the entire subject of devil spirits?
If these are not the case, "Spirit of Leviathan" along with "devil spirits" appears to come from a source outside The Bible.
The AC syllabus lists, on page 20, Isaiah 27:1 and Matthew 12:43 as references to Leviathan being the spirit causing alcoholism. If you can figure out how Leviathan is connected to alcoholism, you're one up on me.
Perhaps "devil spirits" is a synonym for "unclean spirit". The Wikipedia link, didn't see alcohol mentioned. Mental illness certainly is. Frogs too. Origen is mentioned. That guy had issues.
My memory is LCM's explanation. The Adversary cannot create. He cannot make a spirit for the individual as God does with holy spirit (lower case). So he puts a "wedge" into a person's "door" - which is what seed is. The singing ladies had a song about keeping the door shut tight.
"Out of fellowship" referred to obedience to God - which could mean many, many things. Not just going to fellowship.
LCM was raging against AA, at the start of this thread. Alcoholism is a devil spirit in his world.
It’s embarrassing to think of how I bought into all that stuff. The same speculative nonsense wierwille use to propound. It begins with something from the Bible, reinterpret or twist a verse or two, then speak authoritatively (and I assumed they had empirical evidence coming out the wazoo) on the mechanisms involved in the process. Like wierwille’s “great principle” – “god who is spirit teaches his creation in you...etc.". Thus being born of wrong seed you get a permanent wedge installed.
On LEAD we used to kid about Satan giving someone a permanent wedgy. And from that we jokingly reasoned being born again of incorruptible seed made us “The Unwedgeables”. oh wait - can I use that emoji? Am I sending mixed messages
I don't personally put a lot of stock in anything Pillai wrote about oriental customs. He was legitimately credentialed in statistics and mathematics, but his expertise in ancient oriental customs seems to be self-appointed. In fact, there exists a thread on GSC that took a critical look at some of his pronouncements on oriental customs. The findings were less than favorable.
but you misspelled "en.wiklpedia" so it's a dead link.
2) That goes to someone else who shared his name. THAT guy had a legitimate math degree. On his page is a link to the other guy. "For the Indian Orthodox Bishop and Biblical research author, see K. C. Pillai."
"' 'The Anglican Church in America' was founded in 1991 following merger talks between the American Episcopal Church and the Anglican Catholic Church (ACC)."
".The American Episcopal Church was founded in 1968 by a group of former clergy and members of the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Orthodox Church. They sought a more loosely organized structure than that offered by the Anglican Orthodox Church and formed the new jurisdiction with a congregational polity. The church turned to James Charles Ryan, better known by his Indian name, Joseph K. C. Pillai, of the Indian Orthodox Church, for episcopal orders. Pillai then became the first primate of the new church and merged the Indian Orthodox Church into it. In December 1968, Pillai consecrated James George as Bishop of Birmingham. Bishop George succeeded Pillai as primate following the latter's death in 1970."
"between August 1945 and 11 October 1947 Mar James (James Charles Ryan also known as Joseph Chengalvaroyan Pillai) served as Exarch for the Indies in the Catholicate of the West."
I'm sure there's a story there. Why did he need so many names?
Although Pillai claimed to be an expert on the Bible lands' customs and cultures, he was from INDIA, and did NOT grow up in the Bible lands. He was familiar with MODERN practices in a completely different sub-continent, and claimed they were the same thing.
Ah, WW, what has Pillai got to do with the 12 Steps? Especially in the Christian context.
Reminder. Here is Step 1.
On 1/18/2022 at 10:28 AM, Twinky said:
We admitted we were powerless over the effects of our separation from God – that our lives had become unmanageable
I think in our recovery from TWI, all of us had to start from this place. Our separation from God - either before we ever heard of TWI, or quite possibly because of TWI.
I assure you - my life had become so unmanageable that I was near suicidal when they kicked me out. Except that I had so little energy and motivation that I couldn't even do that. Profound depression, PTSD, who knows.
Thank God he rescued me and all is very, very well now. Pity I couldn't have listened to him earlier and got out of the misery of the post-TWI state years before.
though Pillai claimed to be an expert on the Bible lands' customs and cultures, he was from INDIA, and did NOT grow up in the Bible lands. He was familiar with MODERN practices in a completely different sub-continent, and claimed they were the same thing.
Sorry for the incorrect link.
You summed up, quite nicely, the point I was trying to make.
Twinky,
It's important because Wierwille used what Pillai was purporting in order to give a sense of credibility to his own claims. That gave us a false sense of confidence. It made us feel like we could trust this guy (VPW) to help us fill a perceived void in our lives.
I think in our recovery from TWI, all of us had to start from this place. Our separation from God - either before we ever heard of TWI, or quite possibly because of TWI.
I assure you - my life had become so unmanageable that I was near suicidal when they kicked me out. Except that I had so little energy and motivation that I couldn't even do that. Profound depression, PTSD, who knows.
Thank God he rescued me and all is very, very well now. Pity I couldn't have listened to him earlier and got out of the misery of the post-TWI state years before.
My opinion is you're describing the devaluation and discard phases of the Narcissist cycle of abuse. They wanted you confused and hurting (possibly setting up for the hoover phase). Alcohol may or may not become involved, and its use would confirm the Narcissist's view of the discarded person. Everyone has reasons for ignoring the warning signs when getting involved, but that is part of the idealization phase (phase one).
The Way made alcoholism one of 33 classes of devil spirits. (of which I was diagnosed with about 45 of them) Why would LCM get defensive about alternate solutions to alcoholism? Sounds like there's multiple answers. One person here is translating AA in terms of discerning of spirits for the simple folk . . . or something.
The Way likely stole these ideas for it's own purposes, but from where? Leviathan makes no sense to me at this point, and there seems like a very sloppy explanation in TWI materials.
It's important because Wierwille used what Pillai was purporting in order to give a sense of credibility to his own claims. That gave us a false sense of confidence. It made us feel like we could trust this guy (VPW) to help us fill a perceived void in our lives.
It seems to me that Twinky was trying to get the point across that you were off the topic of this thread, which apparently, she started almost a decade ago.
One interesting point to me on the 12 step and alcoholism. The name Leviathan seems to me like it might be a carryover from other stories. There are older poems like the Epic of Gilgamesh that were retold a lot and sung by bards.
these were the days well before Zuckerbergs meta verse lol.
Fundamentalism assumes a lot. Like some meaning to a name.
One interesting point to me on the 12 step and alcoholism. The name Leviathan seems to me like it might be a carryover from other stories. There are older poems like the Epic of Gilgamesh that were retold a lot and sung by bards.
these were the days well before Zuckerbergs meta verse lol.
Fundamentalism assumes a lot. Like some meaning to a name.
Are you saying 12 steps calls it Leviathan? Cause Google doesn't associate the two.
There's a lot of psychological significance in Gilgamesh, too.
Thanks for those fascinating links on leviathan and the Norse world serpent - and I can’t help but see some parallels with a harmful and controlling cult…how cults have an us-versus-them mentality …leviathan (cults) being at enmity with the world and then they get you to think the same way…the cult’s enemies become our enemies…the Norse serpent coils itself tighter and tighter around the little cult-world that we live in , in preparation for the great battles against any family, friends and logic outside the camp.
Also ideas of chaos and even the “creative” power of chaos come to mind… out of chaos and disorder a reordering is possible…demolish and then rebuild…I think of brainwashing- they break you down and then rebuild you to their liking…
a life-changing event is something that has such a big effect on you that it causes you to reassess your goals and maybe even “re-tool” them and how you’re going to achieve them…
life-changing can be positive or negative…
joining a harmful and controlling cult , becoming an alcoholic - both life-changing…
surviving a cult, joining a rehab program also life-changing…that is all.
Yeah T-Bone, I'm seeing zero relationship between Leviathan and alcohol. Leviathan is a thing in mythology, but someone decided to related to alcohol. And The Way needed this funnel for its hatred.
The 3rd drink was once upon a time a means to completely tell The Way International and everyone in it F. U.
Alcohol is just a chemical, C2H5OH. Not an event. Not a person. Not a devil spirit.
The Way is not a chemical, or a devil spirit. Or an event.
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chockfull
In many ways AA has done a work that TWI was and is too lazy to ever do anything close to. They have taken a specific category of people with special needs and dedicated resources to helping them. T
damurf
I had a pretty bad drinking problem when I was with TWI, I tried several things to get a handle on it but to no avail. I did have a Limb coordinator even suggest that I go to AA. After leaving TWI I s
OldSkool
My uncle has been in AA for around 30 years. It saved his life. He has lived a very productive life since he sobered up and has helped many people be sponsoring them in AA. I have nothing but praise f
T-Bone
Ok – I’ll try to steer it back
(goes to link OldSkool provided - 5 alcoholic types page 2 - looks over types – copies and pastes functional subtype)
“The functional subtype accounts for about 19% of U.S. alcoholics. They're generally middle-aged, working adults who tend to have stable relationships, more education, and higher incomes than other alcoholics. They tend to drink every other day, often consuming five or more drinks on drinking days.”
To answer an old question by OldSkool, after looking at the link he provided, I think wierwille was a functional subtype of alcoholic…seems to check all the boxes anyway:
middle-aged - about 45 to 65, uh huh…I mean check!
working adults – while he was “working The Word” he had all of us peons working our a$$ off at the Rock, corps week, campus locations, big events…check!
stable relationship - not likely to change or fail; firmly established – yup - wierwille was a harmful and controlling cult-leader. That’s a pretty solid connection between cult-leader and followers, isn’t it? Oh, and technically all the women in the kingdom belong to the king. That’s beaucoup “relationships” right? Check!
more education – personally taught by God. Check!
higher incomes – he was living large thanks to YOUR abundant sharing! Check!
They tend to drink every other day – I think he was drunk EVERY day he taught at PFAL 77. That’s above and beyond the call of functional alcoholic! The Bible says we’re supposed to go the extra mile. Check!
often consuming five or more drinks on drinking days – at Rome City campus I had a closer vantage point than at PFAL 77 – but it’s hard to say how many times his mug of Drambuie was refilled when we were in a meeting (to be honest - sometimes I nodded off and lost count
); and also, that’s not counting when he was backstage or in the Coachmen’s Suite. Check, check, check, check, check, check, check, check ...zzzzzzZZZZZZz 
oh well, Twinky I tried.
Edited by T-Bonefunctional subtype of someone editorializing all out of proportion
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Mike
I don't understand your first line.
If I were to research the Leviathan thing I'd start with it's idiomatic usage. It may be similar to the serpent thing in Genesis. I think it was Bishop Pilai who said that though snake or serpent are literal translations, the idiom should steer a translation to the word "enchanter."
No, I wasn't referring to devil being partial there. The partial I was referring to is what's left of a human when possession or oppression are involved. Remembering my original audience of that piece of text, I wanted to communicate other ideas to their secular minds, and mentioning devils is just a distraction to them.
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Bolshevik
I have heard stories (while in New Knoxville) of heads being opened up and parts of the brain being missing . . . due to devil spirits eating away at it. Devil spirits are supposed to be specialists in working on a specific area of the mind (brain). Seed meaning there is a wedge in the door that allows any spirit access at any time, and this is irreversible.
With alcohol, it takes a certain amount of drinking to allow the Spirit of Leviathan in. Or, once out of fellowship for disobedience specifically concerning drinking, the devil spirit has access. Once this bugger is in, there's a process to get him out, yes?
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waysider
I never heard anything about physiological changes occurring when I was involved. What was being taught was that access was facilitated by fellowship status and could fluctuate. It was referred to as a "trap door" and your fellowship status determined whether or not the trap door was open. The seed term was used to suggest a person had been born again of the seed of the devil. This is what was taught to be irreversible.
Sorry if this seems off-topic, but if we are drawing parallels between cult recovery and alcoholism recovery, it seems inevitable that tangent discussion will pop up.
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Bolshevik
My memory is LCM's explanation. The Adversary cannot create. He cannot make a spirit for the individual as God does with holy spirit (lower case). So he puts a "wedge" into a person's "door" - which is what seed is. The singing ladies had a song about keeping the door shut tight.
"Out of fellowship" referred to obedience to God - which could mean many, many things. Not just going to fellowship.
LCM was raging against AA, at the start of this thread. Alcoholism is a devil spirit in his world.
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waysider
I don't personally put a lot of stock in anything Pillai wrote about oriental customs. He was legitimately credentialed in statistics and mathematics, but his expertise in ancient oriental customs seems to be self-appointed. In fact, there exists a thread on GSC that took a critical look at some of his pronouncements on oriental customs. The findings were less than favorable.
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Bolshevik
Your advice seems to be predicated on the idea that Spirit of Leviathan comes from The Bible?
If someone were to look at the Bible, how would they come to the conclusion that Leviathan has something to do with alcohol? Let alone the entire subject of devil spirits?
If these are not the case, "Spirit of Leviathan" along with "devil spirits" appears to come from a source outside The Bible.
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waysider
The AC syllabus lists, on page 20, Isaiah 27:1 and Matthew 12:43 as references to Leviathan being the spirit causing alcoholism. If you can figure out how Leviathan is connected to alcoholism, you're one up on me.
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Bolshevik
Unclean Spirits
Perhaps "devil spirits" is a synonym for "unclean spirit". The Wikipedia link, didn't see alcohol mentioned. Mental illness certainly is. Frogs too. Origen is mentioned. That guy had issues.
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T-Bone
It’s embarrassing to think of how I bought into all that stuff. The same speculative nonsense wierwille use to propound. It begins with something from the Bible, reinterpret or twist a verse or two, then speak authoritatively (and I assumed they had empirical evidence coming out the wazoo) on the mechanisms involved in the process. Like wierwille’s “great principle” – “god who is spirit teaches his creation in you...etc.". Thus being born of wrong seed you get a permanent wedge installed.
On LEAD we used to kid about Satan giving someone a permanent wedgy. And from that we jokingly reasoned being born again of incorruptible seed made us “The Unwedgeables”.
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WordWolf
Um, waysider?
1) That link is misspelled. You meant to point it to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._C._Sreedharan_Pillai
but you misspelled "en.wiklpedia" so it's a dead link.
2) That goes to someone else who shared his name. THAT guy had a legitimate math degree. On his page is a link to the other guy. "For the Indian Orthodox Bishop and Biblical research author, see K. C. Pillai."
3) THAT link doesn't get into his past at all.
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WordWolf
Ever heard of JAMES CHARLES RYAN?
You have if you've heard of Bishop K.C. PILLAI. They're the same person. "Joseph K.C. Pillai" "was his Indian name."
https://www.encyclopedia.com/religion/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/anglican-churches-0
"' 'The Anglican Church in America' was founded in 1991 following merger talks between the American Episcopal Church and the Anglican Catholic Church (ACC)."
".The American Episcopal Church was founded in 1968 by a group of former clergy and members of the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Orthodox Church. They sought a more loosely organized structure than that offered by the Anglican Orthodox Church and formed the new jurisdiction with a congregational polity. The church turned to James Charles Ryan, better known by his Indian name, Joseph K. C. Pillai, of the Indian Orthodox Church, for episcopal orders. Pillai then became the first primate of the new church and merged the Indian Orthodox Church into it. In December 1968, Pillai consecrated James George as Bishop of Birmingham. Bishop George succeeded Pillai as primate following the latter's death in 1970."
https://san-luigi.org/churches/catholicate-of-the-west/mission/syro-chaldean-metropolitical-see-of-india-ceylon-mylapore-socotra-and-messina-decree/
"between August 1945 and 11 October 1947 Mar James (James Charles Ryan also known as Joseph Chengalvaroyan Pillai) served as Exarch for the Indies in the Catholicate of the West."
I'm sure there's a story there. Why did he need so many names?
https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/23131-ash-heap-of-twi-story/#comment-543998
"A quick summation......in the summer of 1953, wierwille's brother harry was in Tennessee. He stopped
to visit a Christian children's camp and an Anglican bishop from India, was the guest speaker. This
speaker was Bishop K.C. Pillai. Harry invited him to meet with vic in Van Wert, OH.
Pillai's church and connections back in India set Dr. I.S. Williams (and family) to host the wierwilles
during their stay in Bombay. Another thread, years ago gives more details."
Click Here - Narcisstic Self-Promotion
==================
Although Pillai claimed to be an expert on the Bible lands' customs and cultures, he was from INDIA, and did NOT grow up in the Bible lands. He was familiar with MODERN practices in a completely different sub-continent, and claimed they were the same thing.
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Twinky
Ah, WW, what has Pillai got to do with the 12 Steps? Especially in the Christian context.
Reminder. Here is Step 1.
I think in our recovery from TWI, all of us had to start from this place. Our separation from God - either before we ever heard of TWI, or quite possibly because of TWI.
I assure you - my life had become so unmanageable that I was near suicidal when they kicked me out. Except that I had so little energy and motivation that I couldn't even do that. Profound depression, PTSD, who knows.
Thank God he rescued me and all is very, very well now. Pity I couldn't have listened to him earlier and got out of the misery of the post-TWI state years before.
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waysider
Sorry for the incorrect link.
You summed up, quite nicely, the point I was trying to make.
Twinky,
It's important because Wierwille used what Pillai was purporting in order to give a sense of credibility to his own claims. That gave us a false sense of confidence. It made us feel like we could trust this guy (VPW) to help us fill a perceived void in our lives.
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Bolshevik
My opinion is you're describing the devaluation and discard phases of the Narcissist cycle of abuse. They wanted you confused and hurting (possibly setting up for the hoover phase). Alcohol may or may not become involved, and its use would confirm the Narcissist's view of the discarded person. Everyone has reasons for ignoring the warning signs when getting involved, but that is part of the idealization phase (phase one).
The Way made alcoholism one of 33 classes of devil spirits. (of which I was diagnosed with about 45 of them) Why would LCM get defensive about alternate solutions to alcoholism? Sounds like there's multiple answers. One person here is translating AA in terms of discerning of spirits for the simple folk . . . or something.
The Way likely stole these ideas for it's own purposes, but from where? Leviathan makes no sense to me at this point, and there seems like a very sloppy explanation in TWI materials.
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waysider
I'm thinking it was BG Leonard, but it's been too long to remember for sure. I know we covered it here, years ago, on some now forgotten thread.
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Rocky
It seems to me that Twinky was trying to get the point across that you were off the topic of this thread, which apparently, she started almost a decade ago.
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Twinky
Thank you, Rocky. Somebody here can read, and "gets it."
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chockfull
One interesting point to me on the 12 step and alcoholism. The name Leviathan seems to me like it might be a carryover from other stories. There are older poems like the Epic of Gilgamesh that were retold a lot and sung by bards.
these were the days well before Zuckerbergs meta verse lol.
Fundamentalism assumes a lot. Like some meaning to a name.
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Bolshevik
Are you saying 12 steps calls it Leviathan? Cause Google doesn't associate the two.
There's a lot of psychological significance in Gilgamesh, too.
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chockfull
No more of the adv class categorization of the devil spirit and teaching from the Bible on it.
I wonder if the name in the Bible is a copy from other writings it seems out of place as a name.
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Bolshevik
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Leviathan-Middle-Eastern-mythology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jörmungandr#:~:text=In Norse mythology%2C Jörmungandr (Old,Loki and the giantess Angrboða.
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T-Bone
Thanks for those fascinating links on leviathan and the Norse world serpent - and I can’t help but see some parallels with a harmful and controlling cult…how cults have an us-versus-them mentality …leviathan (cults) being at enmity with the world and then they get you to think the same way…the cult’s enemies become our enemies…the Norse serpent coils itself tighter and tighter around the little cult-world that we live in , in preparation for the great battles against any family, friends and logic outside the camp.
Also ideas of chaos and even the “creative” power of chaos come to mind… out of chaos and disorder a reordering is possible…demolish and then rebuild…I think of brainwashing- they break you down and then rebuild you to their liking…
a life-changing event is something that has such a big effect on you that it causes you to reassess your goals and maybe even “re-tool” them and how you’re going to achieve them…
life-changing can be positive or negative…
joining a harmful and controlling cult , becoming an alcoholic - both life-changing…
surviving a cult, joining a rehab program also life-changing…that is all.
Edited by T-BoneEditor-in-chief: Levi A. Thin
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Bolshevik
Yeah T-Bone, I'm seeing zero relationship between Leviathan and alcohol. Leviathan is a thing in mythology, but someone decided to related to alcohol. And The Way needed this funnel for its hatred.
The 3rd drink was once upon a time a means to completely tell The Way International and everyone in it F. U.
Alcohol is just a chemical, C2H5OH. Not an event. Not a person. Not a devil spirit.
The Way is not a chemical, or a devil spirit. Or an event.
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