It's all a matter of semantics. "The Way" has all but disappeared but, in reality, it lives on in the offshoots and 'holders-on'. THIS one even has a Corps program, a W.O.W. program and a L.E.A.D. program, as well as capitalizing on the Wierwille name....Phoenix continues to rise attempt rising from the ashes.
CES never really attracted new people. It all seemed to be ex-wafers. In the early days John, John and Mark did make contact with other people, like the Momentus people and the prophecy people, but those folks were more interested in taking advantage of CES followers than in providing converts to CES doctrine. They were multi-level marketing sharks gulping down the CES multi-level marketing minnow. The only decent fellow they contacted was Anthony Buzzard, but he saw through their flaws pretty quickly.
PFAL was a product of the thirties and forties dressed up for the sixties. The Way International is like the Lawrence Welk show, stuck in the past, but Lawrence Welk is vastly more entertaining and instructive.
TWI is a mere blip in NK area. More people attend Lutheran, Catholic, Episcopalian, Methodist, UCC, Baptist, Assemblies of God in New Knoxville, New Bremen, Wapokeneta, Sidney, and St. Mary's combined compared to the children of the cornfield cult in 100 mile radius.
those folks were more interested in taking advantage of CES followers than in providing converts to CES doctrine.
The Way International is like the Lawrence Welk show, stuck in the past, but Lawrence Welk is vastly more entertaining and instructive.
Love,
Steve
I agree completely - follow the $, it's always very consistent in how it trends.
Cross pollination is basic marketing. You scratch me, I'll scratch you, we'll both make money in the process.The strategy is to leverage shared membership roles in order to (fill in the blank), grow, increase sales, validate, etc.
Cross sell, up sell. Marketing 101.
The Way had a way of turning people into goobers if they weren't careful. "Wise" but extremely trusting, especially when the cross sell techniques were needed more by one side (us/me/The Way, CES/Lynn's foot Burgers) than the other. The most needy side is always at a disadvantage Always. VPW maneuvered around that reality as well as any but at some point the laws of nature do prevail without intervention and adjustment and the Way never got that "spiritual" advantage over the long haul, or long enough to do a lot of good, IMO.
The Way Nash always needed financing. It had the books balance for a few years in the early stages, with brother HEW's assistance and short term bank loans (which VPW always prided himself for paying back and not loading down the books with debt).....and that was good. But the strategy of the Way - "WOW" - didn't need campuses to successfully execute and in the mind of this writer the rush to expand locations - Emporia, Rome City, Colorado, Tinny -
Weighted the Way down to an insurmountable level that was a contributing factor to it's ultimate failure - on it's strategy. As all sound business acumen dictates, where profit is the desired outcome - growth has to be capitalized, funded, reserves have to be allowed for. Not all new business is good business and growing too fast isn't good if you can't manage overhead, everyone knows that. Jesus did. His "model" was scalable. The Way's wasn't if it required campuses, locations, support systems, etc. etc. The ROA - we were staring down the pipe by 1980, and knew it, there's only so much room. Find one person who can give you the projected plan, on paper with major requirements penned in and a timeline - and I'll buy your next cup o' free coffee.
The Way's success was based on expansion of the Word via "PFAL" completions. X number of graduates = success. There wasn't complete agreement on what that number was but the process was agreed on - each one win one and eventually achieve span out, layering growth on top of growth. "WOW" was figured out on paper, more than once. It wasn't an entirely ambiguous goal, nor how it would be managed and maintained ("twigs", etc. etc. etc. etc.)
The Way is still there but hardly acting on any kind of vision with vigor and drive. It's gone kaput. It likely would have for a variety of other reasons too but this would have done it, no matter what else happened. They would eventually have to re tool their strategy and sell - which they finally did but from a losing position. Instead of making money or profit of any kind they just unloaded properties when they had to. Never a good strategy but you do what you have to do.
I know there's all kind of spiritual reasons why the Way would have turned into a turnip field eventually but I consider history and trending as the start of interpreting data, and this is what I see.
I was out garage saling a few Saturdays ago when I ran into someone who looked familiar. She said, "I know you, don't I?" and immediately I recognized her from a twig here in my medium sized southern city. She had been a WOW here over 27 years ago and stayed with her husband and raised her children here. I asked her what she has done since the old Way days and to my complete surprise, she and her husband are still running a Wayfer twig here!!! How can someone run a Wayfer twig for over 27 years??? Oh my goodness, I can't imagine how tiresome and old that must be! I kept my mouth shut. What good would it do to ask her how she can still believe that mess after all these years and hopefully maturity might have set in. Honestly, I can't imagine!
The STS (Sunday Teaching Service) as it has been renamed, happens at 3pm now. When I was around in 2008, it was EMPTY. There was also a host of unfilled staff positions, which made the emptiness even worse. So what did Rosalie and the gang do to try and hide the emptiness? They started scheduling field visits from across the country. Charter a bus(es) and coerce as many people as you can to get on board. The only problem is there aren't enough people left in TWI (or enough of them that want to participate) to do this every time there is a service. So most of the time the auditorium is EMPTY.
Let's define empty. Typically, without a bussed in audience, they had trouble filling the center of the first three rows. I kid you not. The only times the place came close to capacity was pentecost, the anniversary, and perhaps a concert where the local community was invited to attend. By community I mean all the various and sundry business contacts that showed up out of obligation. But then only the lower auditorium was used. The top is only used at pentecost and the anniversary - maybe.
I see OldSkool has given a definitive answer to the question, and I will back it up with these observations:
For a few years, the Dayton station I get has occassionaly ran the the packaged for TV Sunday services. I haven't looked recently whether they still do it or not. I did watch all or portions of 4 or 5 episodes here and there and I was left with these impressions.
Everything was stiff, dull, and somehow running in an odd slow motion.
The music
The singing
Their shuffling, I cannot call it choreography
The teaching was dullest of all, and very basic, almost pre-pfal.
The smiles were ...creepy.
Not as good as I remembered, they were being genuine the best they could be, but it wasn't right.
The teachings were done from a small wooden podium in front of the closed curtains. The very large dark green curtains and the small podium gave an essence of of dark and gloominess which added to the measured slow pace of the teaching.
The stage area looked the same with the same curtains and props I had seen in the '80's and '90's, except duller, due to age I guess. Either that or they lack people who know how to to light and film a stage properly.
I found it interesting that most of the camera work was done from the balcony area. when they did a wide view shot, you could see some of the audience.
You never saw back more than 3 or 5 rows.
Occasionally, the rows were not filled all the way to the end.
Anyhow, that is what I remember from watching those episodes from 2 to 4 years ago. You can make of it what you want.
TWI is a mere blip in NK area. More people attend Lutheran, Catholic, Episcopalian, Methodist, UCC, Baptist, Assemblies of God in New Knoxville, New Bremen, Wapokeneta, Sidney, and St. Mary's combined compared to the children of the cornfield cult in 100 mile radius.
Wiccans in a hundred mile radius probably outnumber them..
Atheists in a hundred mile radius.. easy, hands down..
I wonder how they feel about genetically modified corn, infesting their fields.. God only knows what DNA has been diced and spliced to work with corn..
Genetically modified crops outnumber them..
and this has been by agreement. They've rented out old ROA fields..
gee, Mr. Squirrel, new potential coverts,ehh zombies to take PFAL, oops meant WAP, a new Jesus People Movement instead of San Fransisco to boost attendance for the 60 or less at TWI. Someone contact Hillsong United, Casting Crowns, Lincoln Brewster, Jeremy Camp, 10th Avenue North. Ohh, they have to take Way Corps instruction and Disciples of The Way, and be vetted for brainwashing
Atheists in a hundred mile radius.. easy, hands down..
I wonder how they feel about genetically modified corn, infesting their fields.. God only knows what DNA has been diced and spliced to work with corn..
Genetically modified crops outnumber them..
and this has been by agreement. They've rented out old ROA fields..
Ham, who did they rent them out to?? Just curious.
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WordWolf
The numbers internationally are hard to get,
but wild exaggeration is the order of the day, still.
So, we think there's a FEW people in Africa,
but beyond that, no. Presence in Europe left with cg,
and presence in South America left with RC.
That leaves Australia- which never seemed to been an
outreach continent- Antarctica (same approach)
and Africa.
Last I heard, they were requiring people to come once a month
for the service-and the cameras are set up once they channel
people into a narrow aisle in the lower level so they can
pretend the entire level is packed.
Offhand, I'd suppose there's about 2000 twi'ers currently
claiming membership across the US. As churches go, there's many
LOCAL congregations that are bigger. twi exists but is hardly
a factor outside of New Knoxville.
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dabobbada
How big is the way now?
Ohhhhhhhhhh...
About 160 acres. :blink:
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waysider
It's all a matter of semantics. "The Way" has all but disappeared but, in reality, it lives on in the offshoots and 'holders-on'. THIS one even has a Corps program, a W.O.W. program and a L.E.A.D. program, as well as capitalizing on the Wierwille name....Phoenix continues to rise attempt rising from the ashes.
edited for verb tense.
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WordWolf
Even adding every single person from all the offshoots,
twi and all the splinters/offshoots is certainly a LOT less
in size than twi in its heyday- the late 70s/early 80s.
I'd put all the participants in the US of all of them
somewhere closer to 5000. They NEVER publish numbers.
The groups, generally, are more about retaining-
sbout hanging on to the old-
the old doctrines, the old slogans, the old ideas,
the old people, the old reminisces-
than about all the changes they'd need to get new
people. So, they are generally in membership decline.
A few are having MINOR success with kids the same way
vpw hijacked the hippies. Overall, they are losing more
people each year than are gained by new recruitment.
Most "growth" is one offshoot getting people from twi
or a DIFFERENT offshoot. At best, that's a zero-sum game.
So, give it another generation, as the memberships continue
to slide towards zero. I think we'll see a resemblance to
Zeno's Paradox, where we never quite see zero people, but
half the previous membership, then half of that, then
eventually the meeting of all the members nationwide
could be held in a hot tub.
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Steve Lortz
I think WordWolf is right.
CES never really attracted new people. It all seemed to be ex-wafers. In the early days John, John and Mark did make contact with other people, like the Momentus people and the prophecy people, but those folks were more interested in taking advantage of CES followers than in providing converts to CES doctrine. They were multi-level marketing sharks gulping down the CES multi-level marketing minnow. The only decent fellow they contacted was Anthony Buzzard, but he saw through their flaws pretty quickly.
PFAL was a product of the thirties and forties dressed up for the sixties. The Way International is like the Lawrence Welk show, stuck in the past, but Lawrence Welk is vastly more entertaining and instructive.
Love,
Steve
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
TWI is a mere blip in NK area. More people attend Lutheran, Catholic, Episcopalian, Methodist, UCC, Baptist, Assemblies of God in New Knoxville, New Bremen, Wapokeneta, Sidney, and St. Mary's combined compared to the children of the cornfield cult in 100 mile radius.
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socks
I agree completely - follow the $, it's always very consistent in how it trends.
Cross pollination is basic marketing. You scratch me, I'll scratch you, we'll both make money in the process.The strategy is to leverage shared membership roles in order to (fill in the blank), grow, increase sales, validate, etc.
Cross sell, up sell. Marketing 101.
The Way had a way of turning people into goobers if they weren't careful. "Wise" but extremely trusting, especially when the cross sell techniques were needed more by one side (us/me/The Way, CES/Lynn's foot Burgers) than the other. The most needy side is always at a disadvantage Always. VPW maneuvered around that reality as well as any but at some point the laws of nature do prevail without intervention and adjustment and the Way never got that "spiritual" advantage over the long haul, or long enough to do a lot of good, IMO.
The Way Nash always needed financing. It had the books balance for a few years in the early stages, with brother HEW's assistance and short term bank loans (which VPW always prided himself for paying back and not loading down the books with debt).....and that was good. But the strategy of the Way - "WOW" - didn't need campuses to successfully execute and in the mind of this writer the rush to expand locations - Emporia, Rome City, Colorado, Tinny -
Weighted the Way down to an insurmountable level that was a contributing factor to it's ultimate failure - on it's strategy. As all sound business acumen dictates, where profit is the desired outcome - growth has to be capitalized, funded, reserves have to be allowed for. Not all new business is good business and growing too fast isn't good if you can't manage overhead, everyone knows that. Jesus did. His "model" was scalable. The Way's wasn't if it required campuses, locations, support systems, etc. etc. The ROA - we were staring down the pipe by 1980, and knew it, there's only so much room. Find one person who can give you the projected plan, on paper with major requirements penned in and a timeline - and I'll buy your next cup o' free coffee.
The Way's success was based on expansion of the Word via "PFAL" completions. X number of graduates = success. There wasn't complete agreement on what that number was but the process was agreed on - each one win one and eventually achieve span out, layering growth on top of growth. "WOW" was figured out on paper, more than once. It wasn't an entirely ambiguous goal, nor how it would be managed and maintained ("twigs", etc. etc. etc. etc.)
The Way is still there but hardly acting on any kind of vision with vigor and drive. It's gone kaput. It likely would have for a variety of other reasons too but this would have done it, no matter what else happened. They would eventually have to re tool their strategy and sell - which they finally did but from a losing position. Instead of making money or profit of any kind they just unloaded properties when they had to. Never a good strategy but you do what you have to do.
I know there's all kind of spiritual reasons why the Way would have turned into a turnip field eventually but I consider history and trending as the start of interpreting data, and this is what I see.
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Ham
How "big" is da way. There might be a few ways to answer this question..
Very, very small. In fact, in a desperate need of Viagra, Cialis. or the current drug of choice. I hear some offer herbal alternatives.
Small.. enough to drown in a bathtub, thanks to reducing it by over fifty percent within twenty years. By those "in charge".
I'll think of a third way to answer this question eventually..
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Jim
Trying hard to get that image out of my mind...
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chockfull
Maybe eventually they can get how they operate efficient enough that they all can fit in Rosalie's pool.
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waysider
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JA47646
I was out garage saling a few Saturdays ago when I ran into someone who looked familiar. She said, "I know you, don't I?" and immediately I recognized her from a twig here in my medium sized southern city. She had been a WOW here over 27 years ago and stayed with her husband and raised her children here. I asked her what she has done since the old Way days and to my complete surprise, she and her husband are still running a Wayfer twig here!!! How can someone run a Wayfer twig for over 27 years??? Oh my goodness, I can't imagine how tiresome and old that must be! I kept my mouth shut. What good would it do to ask her how she can still believe that mess after all these years and hopefully maturity might have set in. Honestly, I can't imagine!
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excathedra
did she invite you over?
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Ham
Eventually, we will meet as equals..
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WordWolf
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Ham
Wiccans in a hundred mile radius probably outnumber them..
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Ham
Atheists in a hundred mile radius.. easy, hands down..
I wonder how they feel about genetically modified corn, infesting their fields.. God only knows what DNA has been diced and spliced to work with corn..
Genetically modified crops outnumber them..
and this has been by agreement. They've rented out old ROA fields..
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
gee, Mr. Squirrel, new potential coverts,ehh zombies to take PFAL, oops meant WAP, a new Jesus People Movement instead of San Fransisco to boost attendance for the 60 or less at TWI. Someone contact Hillsong United, Casting Crowns, Lincoln Brewster, Jeremy Camp, 10th Avenue North. Ohh, they have to take Way Corps instruction and Disciples of The Way, and be vetted for brainwashing
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STAYAWAY
since there is still stupid people out there then the way international will be there !! at least it will keep them out of my church !!
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outintexas
I wonder if they still send out the teachings on audio and VHS cassettes.
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Allan
new Zealand 35 down to about 15, Australia 27 down to about 9, leaders still leaving hmmmnnn
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Grace Valerie Claire
Ham, who did they rent them out to?? Just curious.
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