When I exited twi.....a few months later, one of my corps "friends" told me that Martindale had pulled out one of my
letters of correspondence to him, publicly read it on corps night, and sarcastically inserted plenty of cynicism.
After 24 years of devotion to twi.......the LONG KNIVES COME OUT IMMEDIATELY.
F him and everybody who looks or smells like him
i had a lot of correspondence from that skunk pelt inheritor and his father skunk, but i left it all behind when i left my marriage. too bad - i could prove more of what i say - you know? but in the grand schemes of those schemers, does it really matter?
It was creepy......knowing that twi leadership had a "spiritual surveillance" over your life. Most notably, corps and staff at those root locales felt the watchful eyes of overseers on them constantly. Surveillance is defines as --- 1 a) close watch kept over someone, esp. a suspect, b) constant observation of a place or process, 2. supervision or inspection.
Twi deflected the creepiness by saying that it was the responsibility of an overseer to protect his flock from the wiles of the devil. Yeah, right. The constant monitoring, and suspicion.....the reporting back, enough was never enough, uuugh. I distinctly remember the day that I exited twi.......F-R-E-E-D-O-M. The phone calls stopped. The fax machine went silent. No corps meetings to attend. No region/limb coordinator calling me. No monthly reports. Silence. It was awesome!!!!!
The surveillance thing....imo, was built on distrust. Clearly, leaders weren't quick to look for ways to compliment our actions, our boldness, our independent thinking. Nope. Most often, they were waiting to pounce on our individualism, or NOT checking with them first. Egads. Some snot-nosed corps kid wanted me to run everything by him BEFORE acting on common sense? or agape love? Give me a freaking break. The legalism and bondage that kept encroaching into twi WAS ORDERED AND SIGNED OFF FROM TOP MANIPULATORS. Did wierwille ever step in and confront it? No. It was the building blocks of his cult.
It was common knowledge that twi kept corps files for 10 years! Corps evaluations, LEAD reports, notes, cards written to wierwille, one's corps research paper, etc.....all this stuff was amassed and kept in R-Kive boxes and handed back to the corps after 10 years.
And, now......Americans are learning about governmental surveillance and the amassing/collecting of phone data, emails, facebook, google, etc. to be stored away in a megacenter in Utah. The crossroads of liberty and security intersect and there is a diverging opinion of where that should be. When "rulers" are able to reward their friends and punish their enemies.....Lady Liberty and Lady Justice are no longer the first ladies of America.
Anyhoo.....there are times, after leaving twi, when I feel like cults of narcissists are gaining more prominence daily.
Hi skyrider,
Does anyone know if this surveillance is still going on since Martindale was removed? I remember that they had begun visiting homes checking pay stubs to see if followers were tithing, or giving enough. I would have preferred to think that they had begun to improve, and by improving I mean, just let go of the bitterness against those that left and have no more "mark and avoid" policy. In fact, although I am staunchly against much of what they teach now, I have no more ill will. It would be nice to know that the same applies with them. It would be nice to go on grounds again after so many years absent (just about twenty years) and shake their hands again in friendship, speak of those things we agree, or hold friendly discussions or debate on issues of biblical concern. If not, I'd like to think I could shake hands again, buy many of them a pizza, or beer, and relax for a weekend before heading home.
Does anyone know if this surveillance is still going on since Martindale was removed? I remember that they had begun visiting homes checking pay stubs to see if followers were tithing, or giving enough.
No! Really? Did they really do this? In which sort of time bracket? So much for not letting the right hand know what the left is doing, giving secretly/privately, etc.
...
It would be nice to go on grounds again after so many years absent (just about twenty years)...
I think a few of the people here have tried to visit (even to visit graves) and it's been made very difficult for them.
... and shake their hands again in friendship, speak of those things we agree, or hold friendly discussions or debate on issues of biblical concern. If not, I'd like to think I could shake hands again, buy many of them a pizza, or beer, and relax for a weekend before heading home.
If ex-Wayfers are anything to go by, they are impossible to talk to, discuss with...one-track mind with party doctrine and policy prattled without pause for breath for as long as you have patience and don't walk away. Some of them don't appear to know what discussion, debate, and conversation actually mean.
Does anyone know if this surveillance is still going on since Martindale was removed? I remember that they had begun visiting homes checking pay stubs to see if followers were tithing, or giving enough. I would have preferred to think that they had begun to improve, and by improving I mean, just let go of the bitterness against those that left and have no more "mark and avoid" policy. In fact, although I am staunchly against much of what they teach now, I have no more ill will. It would be nice to know that the same applies with them. It would be nice to go on grounds again after so many years absent (just about twenty years) and shake their hands again in friendship, speak of those things we agree, or hold friendly discussions or debate on issues of biblical concern. If not, I'd like to think I could shake hands again, buy many of them a pizza, or beer, and relax for a weekend before heading home.
Does anyone know if they have changed?
Eagle
Eagle......many here have told of eye-witness accounts of "GSC Reports" on Rosalie's desk. Interestingly, twi leadership STILL want
to keep abreast of things that GSC-posters are saying about them. And, the WayGB does their little surveillance deed of daily skimming
thru these topics. Maybe, the security guys don't have much to do at 2am except eat leftover pizza and do another trip down wierwille
road to Hwy 29......so they scan websites for info and browny-points from rosie?
With regards to "skake hands again in friendship or hold friendly discussions".....twi will NOT allow this. The only way they survive
is to keep followers isolated and buzz-brained [ie half-truths, slogans, wayspeak]. Any honest, two-way, clear-cut debating of scripture
could only lead to quickening twi's demise. Heck, questions weren't even really answered after pfal.....remember? Their only answer is
a non-answer of "take another class." The deferral indoctrination has been a diversion tactic all along.
If you think these people are your "friends".......then, you really aren't paying attention. Your goodwill, while commendable, is
misplaced. Some of these people are pawns, but many others are knowingly enablers. And such are those who like their little desk jobs,
their perks of public adulation and fawning followers, and the power of suppression. The middle/upper-tier leaders have been trained to
scan the crowds for inconsistencies and will spot your presence immediately.
The only way you'd be "welcome at the way" is to have your butt firmly planted in a seat and your mouth shut.
If that sign (the pregnant guppy) is still up at the entrance to the property, it's almost surprising that no relatively local abandonees haven't added the letters "un" before the word "welcome."
Cleaning it off regularly would at least give Bless Patrol something to do.
Does anyone know if this surveillance is still going on since Martindale was removed? I remember that they had begun visiting homes checking pay stubs to see if followers were tithing, or giving enough. I would have preferred to think that they had begun to improve, and by improving I mean, just let go of the bitterness against those that left and have no more "mark and avoid" policy. In fact, although I am staunchly against much of what they teach now, I have no more ill will. It would be nice to know that the same applies with them. It would be nice to go on grounds again after so many years absent (just about twenty years) and shake their hands again in friendship, speak of those things we agree, or hold friendly discussions or debate on issues of biblical concern. If not, I'd like to think I could shake hands again, buy many of them a pizza, or beer, and relax for a weekend before heading home.
Does anyone know if they have changed?
Can a zebra change its stripes?
If you wanted to do what you are discussing you'd have to write TWI, and be subject to a scrutinization period by a local leader, likely while being on "probation". There would be rules regarding contact and interaction with TWI members. IF they approved, then you could attend a STS at TWI, but likely with reports traveling back and forth between local and TWI on your "status". And people would be monitoring you, looking for your conversations, etc.
No, Rosalie is as bad or worse on ANY of that stuff.
The problem with trying to have friendships there, speaking of things we agree on, friendly discussions or debates on issues of biblical concern is that they will not be honest with you. There will ABSOLUTELY be another side conversation with a leader regarding ANY conversation, and it will be surrounding how possessed or not you are after being "out of the ministry" for whatever time period. And people won't be real with you - they will be in that mode.
If you wanted to do what you are discussing you'd have to write TWI, and be subject to a scrutinization period by a local leader, likely while being on "probation". There would be rules regarding contact and interaction with TWI members. IF they approved, then you could attend a STS at TWI, but likely with reports traveling back and forth between local and TWI on your "status". And people would be monitoring you, looking for your conversations, etc.
Given a choice between THAT and a colonoscopy........I'd choose a colonoscopy.
i had a lot of correspondence from that skunk pelt inheritor and his father skunk, but i left it all behind when i left my marriage. too bad - i could prove more of what i say - you know? but in the grand schemes of those schemers, does it really matter?
That was a terrible experience at the hand of Martindale. So many years of faithful experience. Taken so lightly.
Eagle......many here have told of eye-witness accounts of "GSC Reports" on Rosalie's desk. Interestingly, twi leadership STILL want
to keep abreast of things that GSC-posters are saying about them. And, the WayGB does their little surveillance deed of daily skimming
thru these topics. Maybe, the security guys don't have much to do at 2am except eat leftover pizza and do another trip down wierwille
road to Hwy 29......so they scan websites for info and browny-points from rosie?
With regards to "shake hands again in friendship or hold friendly discussions".....twi will NOT allow this. The only way they survive
is to keep followers isolated and buzz-brained [ie half-truths, slogans, wayspeak]. Any honest, two-way, clear-cut debating of scripture
could only lead to quickening twi's demise. Heck, questions weren't even really answered after pfal.....remember? Their only answer is
a non-answer of "take another class." The deferral indoctrination has been a diversion tactic all along.
If you think these people are your "friends".......then, you really aren't paying attention. Your goodwill, while commendable, is
misplaced. Some of these people are pawns, but many others are knowingly enablers. And such are those who like their little desk jobs,
their perks of public adulation and fawning followers, and the power of suppression. The middle/upper-tier leaders have been trained to
scan the crowds for inconsistencies and will spot your presence immediately.
The only way you'd be "welcome at the way" is to have your butt firmly planted in a seat and your mouth shut.
Hello Skyrider,
Thanks for the update. What I wanted to happen apparently has not. It's funny, rather than have GSC reports, they are better served and would make so much more money, if they were just simply...nice. More people would be attracted to the ministry, and more would stay, and some would return. It's a shame.
According to Proverbs 28:1, the wicked flee when no one is pursuing them.
The leaders of TWI are suspicious of EVERYBODY because they know in their hearts they are as guilty as hell. They will never change as a group. Anybody who comes to their senses as an individual will leave or be expelled.
And of course the oirish git that was/is running new Zealand had a favourite pastime of recording any truth or dare interrogations...kind of like the FBI or something. The guys as nuts as Geer.
first of all, i didn't know anyone was quite as nuts as geer
--
That was a terrible experience at the hand of Martindale. So many years of faithful experience. Taken so lightly.
what a lovely thing to say
--
the wicked flee when no one is pursuing them.
ohmygod that is priceless never saw that
--
i recall when a truly kind, wonderful, dear believer corps grad called us at HQ from great britain to tell us he had been kicked out of the way. he was beyond devastated
so i called nutgeerfruck and he said i should be so careful because the guy was packing "big ones" i'm like "big what"? he said devils you know
so we paid for his ticket to come to ohio (martha sheehan, thank you, i love you)
DRAGGED him over to an asphalt thing and I dragged him to board of trustees and craig and vince etc. and they all SHHHHHT on him
this was before the SHHHHHHHHHt paper
what a sad time for my friend who was more faithful and loving and kind than i could ever dream about being
I've only s**t on four or five people in my way days.. and that is hard enough for me to face and deal with even now. some of these numbnuts did it to hundreds before they figured out it was wrong..
if the ever even did.
I don't see how they can live with themselves.
maybe they have a good supply of the right kind of pharmaceuticals..
Given a choice between THAT and a colonoscopy........I'd choose a colonoscopy. :wink2:/>/>
IMO that is by design. With the amount of micromanagement and control they are exhibiting it is clear that they want the most compliant of sheep. They definitely don't want anyone involved that is a free thinker and expressive. They want obedience, compliance. No questions. No "suggestions". No individual research to deal with. Followers that nod the head, do what they are told including cutting off communication with those outside of favor, string chairs at meetings happily, and send in their ABS check. They persecute and run off anyone with a voice. They want Stepford wives as followers. Other types they will give that colonoscopy to.
Also, this is masked in sugar-coated terms. In today's TWI, when someone talks about "unity" or "the one body" or "we function as a household" within TWI, this is what they are talking about. They are brain-washed jargon terms, not genuine Biblical terms of how they function. True unity has its basis in love, not fear or paranoia or the lust for control or micromanagement.
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waysider
Wow! I thought the whole thing operated by revelation.
hahahahahahahahahaha!
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excathedra
i guess i'll double that ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
from birth to the corps
ohmygod i've been sexually abused as a child
dr. wierwille can help me after he reads this
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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skyrider
Yeah......the mandatory request for ALL corps to document their life with explicit, personal information.
Weren't some even threatened to be thrown out of the corps because they did NOT write it until pressured?
And, what about the corps and staff placement meetings? How MUCH information was divulged about our lives?
Dozens and dozens of people are privy to personal [secret] information about my life. Gee, I'm glad to be
away from that hellhole of denizens.
When I exited twi.....a few months later, one of my corps "friends" told me that Martindale had pulled out one of my
letters of correspondence to him, publicly read it on corps night, and sarcastically inserted plenty of cynicism.
After 24 years of devotion to twi.......the LONG KNIVES COME OUT IMMEDIATELY.
How's that song go?........"every step you take, every move you make, I'll be watching you." :B)
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
gee, I wonder how many TWI people are now working at NSA, CIA, FBI, IRS, DOJ, and State? :blink: :unsure: :wacko:
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skyrider
TWI followers have no desire to work for any government agencies....after all, they are at the spiritual epicenter
of God's will, doncha know, promoting da way.
It's all about "THE"........"WAY"........"INTERNATIONAL."
Years and years of roa grooming, and every staffer and corps is on "bless patrol" 24/7.
And, during the "fog years".....what do you think the YAK TWIG was all about?
Ralph D. gave us insight into the yak-stuff and the horns facing outward....
The "surveillance" and "monitoring" at twi is a staple part of its "success."
The secrecy of its success is the secrecy of its moves.
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waysider
The secret of its success is its clandestine nature
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excathedra
F him and everybody who looks or smells like him
i had a lot of correspondence from that skunk pelt inheritor and his father skunk, but i left it all behind when i left my marriage. too bad - i could prove more of what i say - you know? but in the grand schemes of those schemers, does it really matter?
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Eagle
Hi skyrider,
Does anyone know if this surveillance is still going on since Martindale was removed? I remember that they had begun visiting homes checking pay stubs to see if followers were tithing, or giving enough. I would have preferred to think that they had begun to improve, and by improving I mean, just let go of the bitterness against those that left and have no more "mark and avoid" policy. In fact, although I am staunchly against much of what they teach now, I have no more ill will. It would be nice to know that the same applies with them. It would be nice to go on grounds again after so many years absent (just about twenty years) and shake their hands again in friendship, speak of those things we agree, or hold friendly discussions or debate on issues of biblical concern. If not, I'd like to think I could shake hands again, buy many of them a pizza, or beer, and relax for a weekend before heading home.
Does anyone know if they have changed?
Eagle
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Twinky
No! Really? Did they really do this? In which sort of time bracket? So much for not letting the right hand know what the left is doing, giving secretly/privately, etc.
...
I think a few of the people here have tried to visit (even to visit graves) and it's been made very difficult for them.
If ex-Wayfers are anything to go by, they are impossible to talk to, discuss with...one-track mind with party doctrine and policy prattled without pause for breath for as long as you have patience and don't walk away. Some of them don't appear to know what discussion, debate, and conversation actually mean.
Good question.
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skyrider
Eagle......many here have told of eye-witness accounts of "GSC Reports" on Rosalie's desk. Interestingly, twi leadership STILL want
to keep abreast of things that GSC-posters are saying about them. And, the WayGB does their little surveillance deed of daily skimming
thru these topics. Maybe, the security guys don't have much to do at 2am except eat leftover pizza and do another trip down wierwille
road to Hwy 29......so they scan websites for info and browny-points from rosie?
With regards to "skake hands again in friendship or hold friendly discussions".....twi will NOT allow this. The only way they survive
is to keep followers isolated and buzz-brained [ie half-truths, slogans, wayspeak]. Any honest, two-way, clear-cut debating of scripture
could only lead to quickening twi's demise. Heck, questions weren't even really answered after pfal.....remember? Their only answer is
a non-answer of "take another class." The deferral indoctrination has been a diversion tactic all along.
If you think these people are your "friends".......then, you really aren't paying attention. Your goodwill, while commendable, is
misplaced. Some of these people are pawns, but many others are knowingly enablers. And such are those who like their little desk jobs,
their perks of public adulation and fawning followers, and the power of suppression. The middle/upper-tier leaders have been trained to
scan the crowds for inconsistencies and will spot your presence immediately.
The only way you'd be "welcome at the way" is to have your butt firmly planted in a seat and your mouth shut.
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Twinky
If that sign (the pregnant guppy) is still up at the entrance to the property, it's almost surprising that no relatively local abandonees haven't added the letters "un" before the word "welcome."
Cleaning it off regularly would at least give Bless Patrol something to do.
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skyrider
......and your wallet open.
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chockfull
Can a zebra change its stripes?
If you wanted to do what you are discussing you'd have to write TWI, and be subject to a scrutinization period by a local leader, likely while being on "probation". There would be rules regarding contact and interaction with TWI members. IF they approved, then you could attend a STS at TWI, but likely with reports traveling back and forth between local and TWI on your "status". And people would be monitoring you, looking for your conversations, etc.
No, Rosalie is as bad or worse on ANY of that stuff.
The problem with trying to have friendships there, speaking of things we agree on, friendly discussions or debates on issues of biblical concern is that they will not be honest with you. There will ABSOLUTELY be another side conversation with a leader regarding ANY conversation, and it will be surrounding how possessed or not you are after being "out of the ministry" for whatever time period. And people won't be real with you - they will be in that mode.
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skyrider
Given a choice between THAT and a colonoscopy........I'd choose a colonoscopy.
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Eagle
That was a terrible experience at the hand of Martindale. So many years of faithful experience. Taken so lightly.
It was not fair, right, proper, or civilized.
Eagle
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Eagle
Hello Skyrider,
Thanks for the update. What I wanted to happen apparently has not. It's funny, rather than have GSC reports, they are better served and would make so much more money, if they were just simply...nice. More people would be attracted to the ministry, and more would stay, and some would return. It's a shame.
Eagle
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waysider
It's kismet.
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Steve Lortz
According to Proverbs 28:1, the wicked flee when no one is pursuing them.
The leaders of TWI are suspicious of EVERYBODY because they know in their hearts they are as guilty as hell. They will never change as a group. Anybody who comes to their senses as an individual will leave or be expelled.
Love,
Steve
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Ham
maybe then the righteous should be more bold..
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Allan
And of course the oirish git that was/is running new Zealand had a favourite pastime of recording any truth or dare interrogations...kind of like the FBI or something. The guys as nuts as Geer.
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excathedra
first of all, i didn't know anyone was quite as nuts as geer
--
what a lovely thing to say
--
ohmygod that is priceless never saw that
--
i recall when a truly kind, wonderful, dear believer corps grad called us at HQ from great britain to tell us he had been kicked out of the way. he was beyond devastated
so i called nutgeerfruck and he said i should be so careful because the guy was packing "big ones" i'm like "big what"? he said devils you know
so we paid for his ticket to come to ohio (martha sheehan, thank you, i love you)
DRAGGED him over to an asphalt thing and I dragged him to board of trustees and craig and vince etc. and they all SHHHHHT on him
this was before the SHHHHHHHHHt paper
what a sad time for my friend who was more faithful and loving and kind than i could ever dream about being
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Ham
I wonder how vince feels about this now..
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Ham
I've only s**t on four or five people in my way days.. and that is hard enough for me to face and deal with even now. some of these numbnuts did it to hundreds before they figured out it was wrong..
if the ever even did.
I don't see how they can live with themselves.
maybe they have a good supply of the right kind of pharmaceuticals..
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chockfull
IMO that is by design. With the amount of micromanagement and control they are exhibiting it is clear that they want the most compliant of sheep. They definitely don't want anyone involved that is a free thinker and expressive. They want obedience, compliance. No questions. No "suggestions". No individual research to deal with. Followers that nod the head, do what they are told including cutting off communication with those outside of favor, string chairs at meetings happily, and send in their ABS check. They persecute and run off anyone with a voice. They want Stepford wives as followers. Other types they will give that colonoscopy to.
Also, this is masked in sugar-coated terms. In today's TWI, when someone talks about "unity" or "the one body" or "we function as a household" within TWI, this is what they are talking about. They are brain-washed jargon terms, not genuine Biblical terms of how they function. True unity has its basis in love, not fear or paranoia or the lust for control or micromanagement.
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