I worked someplace in the early 80s and one of my coworkers was a mid 20s attractive girl who was a single parent. So she marries a short, fat guy 10 years older. God did she get grief from the other coworkers, especially the females. This was not twi, but I mention this because IMO the same dynamic is in place either way. I only worked at that place for 2 years and I don't know what became of this girl's marriage, but you don't have to be in twi to have unwritten rules imposed on you about who you want to date or marry.
I know of twi people who married non twi people with both results: it worked or it didn't. But, yes, I will concede that there was weird pressure about who dated who. I can easily see why some in twi kept their romance life secret for as long as possible, even if they dated other twi people.
There was an unwritten rule in The Way that you weren't supposed to date anyone who was not a Way believer. And, it follows suit that you obviously wouldn't marry anyone who you never dated. Ergo, you have to marry a Way Believer. And, not just any believer, but, one who is at the same "growth" level. (Corps marry Corps, etc.) Were we nuts to buy into this insanity??
Let the horror stories begin.
I was thinking about how "Recognized Corps" was something handy if you wanted
to "date up" into the corps, and it worked for John T and others into getting
them recognition.
However, the phrase I probably should have been thinking of was "Spouse Corps."
I was thinking about how "Recognized Corps" was something handy if you wanted
to "date up" into the corps, and it worked for John T and others into getting
them recognition.
However, the phrase I probably should have been thinking of was "Spouse Corps."
There was definitely a class system when it came to this subject. For example, if a Corps grad wanted to marry a FellowLaborer grad, the assumption was that the FellowLaborer grad would have to upgrade his/her status to Corps grad, either by going into the Corps or by both going in as a couple. Exceptions were made of course, for those already in leadership positions. (the elite)
There was definitely a class system when it came to this subject. For example, if a Corps grad wanted to marry a FellowLaborer grad, the assumption was that the FellowLaborer grad would have to upgrade his/her status to Corps grad, either by going into the Corps or by both going in as a couple. Exceptions were made of course, for those already in leadership positions. (the elite)
Dating in the way invites all sorts of "oversight" from whatever coordinator is closest. Obviously, dating an unbeliever is out of the question. And of course advanced class grads are told to only date/marry other advanced class grads. Of course the lower caste person would hold the higher caste person back "spiritually." Way corps can only marry way corps, and dating non-way corps would bring serious rebuke if anything serious developed from the date. It's all a hot mess, and another in-road where heavy handed leadership can micromanage people's lives. And of course pairing up people who are on the same level provides entrance into either way disciple or the way corps, so it's not like there isn't a serious advantage to the way international for enforcing this practice.
Of course there was horror. However, my policy always was the "nunya" policy. In other words, it was a rare occasion where anyone in leadership ever knew anything about who I was dating. Therefore my only horror was in figuring out the appropriate strategy to get dumb leaders the f out of what definitely was not any of their business.
Of course there was horror. However, my policy always was the "nunya" policy. In other words, it was a rare occasion where anyone in leadership ever knew anything about who I was dating. Therefore my only horror was in figuring out the appropriate strategy to get dumb leaders the f out of what definitely was not any of their business.
I probably would have done that, too, but, in FellowLaborers, they knew what you were doing every minute of the day...from 5 AM until midnight.
Yeah, my husband broke ranks and married a corpse apprentice....I qualified...but just barely.
To date corpses you had to assume the subservient position because they were your spiritual leader....there wasn't any balance.
There was no dating, no getting to know one another..... Just a logical decision based on a persons credentials, not really comparability pr genuine like or fondness.
Not a very good foundation to begin a life together....once away from the facade of ministry teachings and illusions of what god expected..it was pretty wild to realize that neither of us were the people we thought we were.
There are still several cultures in the world where prearranged marriages are common. In fact, I have known several people who married in this manner and had successful marriages.
The thing is, though....The Way isn't/wasn't part of those cultures nor does it share the cultural values that make such arrangements work.
The whole idea that "Any two believers can make a marriage work." (VPW in the CF&S class) is a load of bovine excrement.
In my experience, almost all dating was frowned upon. There was always something wrong with one or the other, and some leader making sure it doesn't last. Only approved dating I can recall was corps and corps. Which wasn't me. I learned to not even think of dating corps women. Was either told by them that I'm not spiritual enough, or treated like I was being undersheperded while on a date. I'm still angry about having a relationship broken up by the brnch leader when I was a twig leader. The woman was a wow vet, we were way equals ( meaning we were two nobodies not being corps, but were committed enough to allow our lives to be dictated ). We were just getting serious, when the corps dude sat me down and read me the riot act-how she was screwed up ( she wasn't ) how my spiritual life was in jeopardy as a twig leader and putting God first meant not dating her. I still can't believe I let him jerk me around like that-that I was so weak and pliable will always haunt me. I hope she's doing well.
In my experience, almost all dating was frowned upon. There was always something wrong with one or the other, and some leader making sure it doesn't last. Only approved dating I can recall was corps and corps. Which wasn't me. I learned to not even think of dating corps women. Was either told by them that I'm not spiritual enough, or treated like I was being undersheperded while on a date. I'm still angry about having a relationship broken up by the brnch leader when I was a twig leader. The woman was a wow vet, we were way equals ( meaning we were two nobodies not being corps, but were committed enough to allow our lives to be dictated ). We were just getting serious, when the corps dude sat me down and read me the riot act-how she was screwed up ( she wasn't ) how my spiritual life was in jeopardy as a twig leader and putting God first meant not dating her. I still can't believe I let him jerk me around like that-that I was so weak and pliable will always haunt me. I hope she's doing well.
Sorry about your experience, hiway29. I guess we all let them jerk us around far too much. (I know I did.)
Those misguided morons stuck their noses into virtually everywhere they didn't belong. And it never made it better. LOL at the irony of some misguided BC or TC coming down on people for a singular dating relationship while VP is off frolicking with young ladies on his motor coach while his wife waited at home.
In the 80's, I was an Advanced Class Grad and Twig Leader, and it was apparently OK for me to date Corps women. Not that there were many around. I didn't really see much micromanagement of my personal life until the mid 90's, when the Corps were all salaried and had too much time on their hands.
At one point. I could have had unbridled, un chaperoned, unabashed (yet forbidden) sex with any number of females in a way home in.. I won't give the geographic details.
Could have. Very Definitely. Did not.. I was too much a "geek"..
could have. Including with the Matron in Charge. Now she's just a Choir Angel for The Way.
At one point. I could have had unbridled, un chaperoned, unabashed (yet forbidden) sex with any number of females in a way home in.. I won't give the geographic details.
Could have. Very Definitely. Did not.. I was too much a "geek"..
could have. Including with the Matron in Charge. Now she's just a Choir Angel for The Way.
Still? I dunno.
So, here's the thing. According to the CF&S class, you were supposed to think of all the women as you would think of your own sister. Soooo----When exactly were you supposed to start thinking of them as ..uhhh...something more than a sister?
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Eagle
When I first was introduced to TWI, I could date anyone, though at that time I knew no one woman personally in the Corps that wasn't already married. I had no trouble getting dates. When I got to the
chockfull
For some reason I am reminded of a couple who had been living together for a year or so got into TWI and registered for a class requiring a hotel stay. The leader involved (ordained, WC, LC etc.) wou
johniam
I worked someplace in the early 80s and one of my coworkers was a mid 20s attractive girl who was a single parent. So she marries a short, fat guy 10 years older. God did she get grief from the other coworkers, especially the females. This was not twi, but I mention this because IMO the same dynamic is in place either way. I only worked at that place for 2 years and I don't know what became of this girl's marriage, but you don't have to be in twi to have unwritten rules imposed on you about who you want to date or marry.
I know of twi people who married non twi people with both results: it worked or it didn't. But, yes, I will concede that there was weird pressure about who dated who. I can easily see why some in twi kept their romance life secret for as long as possible, even if they dated other twi people.
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WordWolf
I was thinking about how "Recognized Corps" was something handy if you wanted
to "date up" into the corps, and it worked for John T and others into getting
them recognition.
However, the phrase I probably should have been thinking of was "Spouse Corps."
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waysider
There was definitely a class system when it came to this subject. For example, if a Corps grad wanted to marry a FellowLaborer grad, the assumption was that the FellowLaborer grad would have to upgrade his/her status to Corps grad, either by going into the Corps or by both going in as a couple. Exceptions were made of course, for those already in leadership positions. (the elite)
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OldSkool
Dating in the way invites all sorts of "oversight" from whatever coordinator is closest. Obviously, dating an unbeliever is out of the question. And of course advanced class grads are told to only date/marry other advanced class grads. Of course the lower caste person would hold the higher caste person back "spiritually." Way corps can only marry way corps, and dating non-way corps would bring serious rebuke if anything serious developed from the date. It's all a hot mess, and another in-road where heavy handed leadership can micromanage people's lives. And of course pairing up people who are on the same level provides entrance into either way disciple or the way corps, so it's not like there isn't a serious advantage to the way international for enforcing this practice.
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waysider
Ever go to one of those "pick your own" apple places?
There're a million apples there. Choose the ones that suit you.
Now...Go to the corner carry-out.
"We've got 3 left...which one ya want?"
Yeah...It's kinda like that.
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chockfull
Of course there was horror. However, my policy always was the "nunya" policy. In other words, it was a rare occasion where anyone in leadership ever knew anything about who I was dating. Therefore my only horror was in figuring out the appropriate strategy to get dumb leaders the f out of what definitely was not any of their business.
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waysider
I probably would have done that, too, but, in FellowLaborers, they knew what you were doing every minute of the day...from 5 AM until midnight.
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rascal
Yeah, my husband broke ranks and married a corpse apprentice....I qualified...but just barely.
To date corpses you had to assume the subservient position because they were your spiritual leader....there wasn't any balance.
There was no dating, no getting to know one another..... Just a logical decision based on a persons credentials, not really comparability pr genuine like or fondness.
Not a very good foundation to begin a life together....once away from the facade of ministry teachings and illusions of what god expected..it was pretty wild to realize that neither of us were the people we thought we were.
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waysider
There are still several cultures in the world where prearranged marriages are common. In fact, I have known several people who married in this manner and had successful marriages.
The thing is, though....The Way isn't/wasn't part of those cultures nor does it share the cultural values that make such arrangements work.
The whole idea that "Any two believers can make a marriage work." (VPW in the CF&S class) is a load of bovine excrement.
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hiway29
In my experience, almost all dating was frowned upon. There was always something wrong with one or the other, and some leader making sure it doesn't last. Only approved dating I can recall was corps and corps. Which wasn't me. I learned to not even think of dating corps women. Was either told by them that I'm not spiritual enough, or treated like I was being undersheperded while on a date. I'm still angry about having a relationship broken up by the brnch leader when I was a twig leader. The woman was a wow vet, we were way equals ( meaning we were two nobodies not being corps, but were committed enough to allow our lives to be dictated ). We were just getting serious, when the corps dude sat me down and read me the riot act-how she was screwed up ( she wasn't ) how my spiritual life was in jeopardy as a twig leader and putting God first meant not dating her. I still can't believe I let him jerk me around like that-that I was so weak and pliable will always haunt me. I hope she's doing well.
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waysider
Sorry about your experience, hiway29. I guess we all let them jerk us around far too much. (I know I did.)
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chockfull
Those misguided morons stuck their noses into virtually everywhere they didn't belong. And it never made it better. LOL at the irony of some misguided BC or TC coming down on people for a singular dating relationship while VP is off frolicking with young ladies on his motor coach while his wife waited at home.
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Allan
Don't forget you weren't allowed to get 'preggies' whilst in residence corps training either...saw that one broken a couple of times lol
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waysider
Not only 'preggies', your marital status was not allowed to change. (Applied to FellowLaborers, as well.)
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GeorgeStGeorge
In the 80's, I was an Advanced Class Grad and Twig Leader, and it was apparently OK for me to date Corps women. Not that there were many around. I didn't really see much micromanagement of my personal life until the mid 90's, when the Corps were all salaried and had too much time on their hands.
George
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WordWolf
I'm thinking, George, that had more to do with your status being close to theirs.
I've never sat down to see if there was a coherent chart, but you were sort of
on a boarder for being a TC and on another for being an AC grad.
Put both together and you were within range of corps, but not quite on the same level.
There were reverends, corps, staff, regional, limb, territory, branch and twig coordinators.
There were wow vets, college division and U of L attendees.
There were AC grads. There were Intermediate grads. There were pfal grads.
There were FellowLaborer grads.
There were a few other things here and there (doulos dudes, etc).
All of these meant something to someone. Mixes of them meant something, too.
So, a non-corps Regional Coordinator, say, was higher than a corps grad,
and a corps grad could equal a BC who was an Advanced Class grad or something.
No official chart, but people tried to make the sides balance regardless.
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GeorgeStGeorge
And here I thought it was just because I was so good-looking!
George
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WordWolf
That would help you get the actual dates. :)
To keep the twi gestapo off your back for it, however,
you'd need a procedural pretext,
like you weren't dating above your "station."
In this case, the sum of your data added up high enough
to make dating corps a small hop, not a giant leap.
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chockfull
So the one overarching truth about dating in TWI is that it really clarifies the caste system in TWI.
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waysider
BINGO!
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Ham
At one point. I could have had unbridled, un chaperoned, unabashed (yet forbidden) sex with any number of females in a way home in.. I won't give the geographic details.
Could have. Very Definitely. Did not.. I was too much a "geek"..
could have. Including with the Matron in Charge. Now she's just a Choir Angel for The Way.
Still? I dunno.
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waysider
So, here's the thing. According to the CF&S class, you were supposed to think of all the women as you would think of your own sister. Soooo----When exactly were you supposed to start thinking of them as ..uhhh...something more than a sister?
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johniam
Remember, Adam and Eve's kids married their sisters (wink wink).
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waysider
It's kinda creepy when you think about it....ya know?
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