So, did anyone actually have any level of success using this product called Power For Abundant Living to achieve the promised (Green Card) results? Why did we keep pitching a product that was obviously flawed?
Depending on how one views this "product" [pfal].....I believe, you are going to hear a number
of quote-end-of-quote *successes* of the promised green card sales pitch.
What were some of those promised results?
.....how to pray effectually
.....how to separate truth from error
.....how to live without fear
.....more harmony in the home
.....etc.
When I step back and look at these.....I can't really say that my prayer life was all that more effectual
during my twi-years. Countless times, when I prayed for situations to change......NOTHING HAPPENED.
Was I able to separate truth from error? That, too, comes with plenty of disqualifiers.
How many times did I, and others, succumb to SCRIPTURAL ERROR based on wierwille's teachings?
Too often, I swallowed the party line and didn't expand my research or critical thought to
connect the dots of what wierwille was spouting.
I must say.....that, even early on, I strongly doubted "the law of believing" as wierwille taught it.
Only what God promised, was the essence of sound scriptural believing. All that foolhardy stuff
about "believing equals receiving" was crap. Even in Philippians it noted "believing AND receiving."
Wierwille and co. had changed the scriptures to kowtow to the twi-doctrine.
Then, twi even taught that "giving EQUALS receiving" as it veered further off course.
And, for me, having grown up on a farm......you don't plant one wheat kernel and get back one. :doh:/>/>/>/>
So.....in response to your question, did anyone actually live the "abundant life?"
Gee, I highly doubt it......most that I saw thru the years who were "successful"
had already achieved success BEFORE coming to twi.
And, quite frankly........is the "abundant life" spiritual? If so......then I saw NO ONE IN TWI
who I'd classify as successful. If "abundant life" is economical, then.....even then, hardly
anyone had anything of significance compared to other high-flyers. But, there again....it all
depends on WHO one is compared to and what ABUNDANT LIFE means to you.
******
I will say.....that after exiting twi, I've enjoyed MORE of an abundant life, than anything
that resembled my former indentured servitude in twi.
What is the abundant life? For the sake of consistency, suppose we define it as a life that meets the criteria listed on "The Green Card". If we think of PFAL as a product, like skin cream or weight loss pills, it should deliver the promised results to be considered effective. Pick a promise, any promise. Did it materialize? Yeah, I don't think so.
Why did we keep pitching a product that was obviously flawed?
...
This is probably the bigger question. I'm venturing to say there is no one answer, not even for one person.
TWI is the opposite of NO FEAR. Like with many religions, a good percentage of people involved knows it is false. There's greed, there's social/family ties folks don't want to sever, there's thinking they have no other place to go, there's a simply a cozy laziness to it - Too many thought processes and habits would have to change to do something else. Maybe they need to prove the nay-sayers wrong?
This seems to drive the resurgence of dedication I have seen lately on youtube and facebook. Although, with the health care and beauty product MLM's, most people do eventually accept that they were duped.
This seems to drive the resurgence of dedication I have seen lately on youtube and facebook. Although, with the health care and beauty product MLM's, most people do eventually accept that they were duped.
Probably yeah . . . although in something like twi though I think it's much more personal than a physical product. The "nay-sayer" being family/social group at times . . . irrational gut reactions like this harder to view objectively.
As for physical abundance, how could we prosper financially when we couldn't follow a successful career path because we had to move every three years, or go WOW or had to have vacation in August. The needs of TWI had to come before our personal financial goals, plus out of the meager income we could generate due to all of the above, we had to ABS minimum 15% or God "wouldn't spit in our direction."
Hmm. Let's seen, I'll say freedom from fear. After session one I felt liberated from fear. I was thrilled to learn that I didn't have to live with fear. I had a nice "glowing" feeling leaving the class. Then again, it could have been the acid I took the night before. The glow lasted, oh, about 10 minutes into the next day when I had to face my real life.
I wanted my glow back, so I went into leadership and found that to be really scary. So I went into the Way Corps to learn how to handle the anxiety associated with leadership better. That turned out to be really really scary as I soon learned that every wrong thing that would ever go wrong in a branch, limb, or country, would be my fault :(
Hmm. Let's seen, I'll say freedom from fear. After session one I felt liberated from fear. I was thrilled to learn that I didn't have to live with fear. I had a nice "glowing" feeling leaving the class. Then again, it could have been the acid I took the night before. The glow lasted, oh, about 10 minutes into the next day when I had to face my real life.
I wanted my glow back, so I went into leadership and found that to be really scary. So I went into the Way Corps to learn how to handle the anxiety associated with leadership better. That turned out to be really really scary as I soon learned that every wrong thing that would ever go wrong in a branch, limb, or country, would be my fault :(/>
As for physical abundance, how could we prosper financially when we couldn't follow a successful career path because we had to move every three years, or go WOW or had to have vacation in August. The needs of TWI had to come before our personal financial goals, plus out of the meager income we could generate due to all of the above, we had to ABS minimum 15% or God "wouldn't spit in our direction."
We know it was SUPPOSED to mean "PHYSICAL ABUNDANCE" because the beginning of the pfal class-
and thus the beginning of the Orange Book- makes that transparent. vpw said he was dismayed
that non-Christians were demonstrating more "ABUNDANCE" than Christians.
Yes, twi's practices, in any practical sense, made it a LOT harder to achieve physical abundance
than not following them or just plain ignoring them.
But the people on top of twi, as always, they're living the abundant life, aren't they?
The abundant life, as defined by "the green card", is incongruous with the realities of TWI life. Imparts ability to separate truth from error? Nope. Promotes harmony in the home? Ixnay. The list is ad infinitum.
The abundant life, as defined by "the green card", is incongruous with the realities of TWI life. Imparts ability to separate truth from error? Nope. Promotes harmony in the home? Ixnay. The list is ad infinitum.
I wholeheartedly agree.
But in terms of wierwille's statement in pfal where "non-Christians were exhibiting
more of an abundant life that Christians".....he ventured into MATERIAL ABUNDANCE.
In my post above, I cited abundance in the extreme......mansions, Bentleys, bling jewelry,
Mediterranean vacations, etc.....BECAUSE it seems like there is this claim that bigwigs in
twi live SO ABUNDANTLY.
Heck, even Rosalie's house isn't all that special. Yeah, nice of-sorts....but really?
I've been around the construction and service professions for decades and can tell you
in my city there are tens of thousands of homes that make Rosalie's house look very,
very average. Unless one is around this daily......you would hardly believe it.
Homes with six-car garages, indoor lap pools, 7200-14,500 square ft, art collections,
security monitoring, 24-ft vaulted ceilings, master closets with exercise equipment and
washer/dryer area, sculptures and grand pianos, etc. etc.
All those years ago, most of us were little more than kids or young adults. Geeze, to me, abundance would have been finding enough loose change in the sofa cushions to buy TWO packs of smokes instead of one. In recalling the first session of PLAF (The Wonder Class), it's quite clear that VPW was implying physical abundance, nothing deeply spiritual or esoteric. That shift in definition came later, after the hook had been set. I use the green card as a criteria for the abundant life, rather than a subjective interpretation, because that was the listing of product benefits the class would supposedly help us attain.
As for physical abundance, how could we prosper financially when we couldn't follow a successful career path because we had to move every three years, or go WOW or had to have vacation in August. The needs of TWI had to come before our personal financial goals, plus out of the meager income we could generate due to all of the above, we had to ABS minimum 15% or God "wouldn't spit in our direction."
Well said. It would be one thing if a person was well established in life and then made the decision to become way corps. But they prey on the young and vulnerable, and before you know it you haven't developed yourself and your options become very limited as you get older. The experiences and education the way Corps provided was nothing that could be brought to a new job. Nobody is hiring for a chair stringing temper tantrum throwing plastic utensil saver.
Fortunately, I never graduated from the WC so I didn't have to live by their rules.
I've always lived a much more than abundant life, but not by The Way's definition.
"My God shall supply all your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus."
If you believe your needs include wealth and material riches, and you don't have a 6-7 figure income, you will feel poor. If you're thankful for every need being met and you trust in the Lord, not in an organization or an authority figure or a false prophet, you will be wealthy indeed.
The only people who I ever observed living the "abundant life" (defined from a physical/financial perspective) were those who had mad etheir pile before getting involved in TWI, or inherited wealth.
Our local Twig Fuehrer inherited the fully paid-for house that he lived in when his parents died in a horrible car crash and then lectured the rest of us on how easy it was to own your own home without going into debt. Another guy owned a bunch of rental properties and then sold them all off when he took the PFAL class. The rest of us didn't see too much abundance.
While I'm far from rich right now, I've seen more "abundance" since I left TWI in 2001
While I'm far from rich right now, I've seen more "abundance" since I left TWI in 2001
Me, too. Especially in peace of mind and gratitude for all the positive things in day-to-day living. I think many of us can say that TWI sucked the life out of us...and we're thankful we're out.
Recommended Posts
Bolshevik
Isn't the goal post later moved from "abundant life" to "future rewards"?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Depending on how one views this "product" [pfal].....I believe, you are going to hear a number
of quote-end-of-quote *successes* of the promised green card sales pitch.
What were some of those promised results?
.....how to pray effectually
.....how to separate truth from error
.....how to live without fear
.....more harmony in the home
.....etc.
When I step back and look at these.....I can't really say that my prayer life was all that more effectual
during my twi-years. Countless times, when I prayed for situations to change......NOTHING HAPPENED.
Was I able to separate truth from error? That, too, comes with plenty of disqualifiers.
How many times did I, and others, succumb to SCRIPTURAL ERROR based on wierwille's teachings?
Too often, I swallowed the party line and didn't expand my research or critical thought to
connect the dots of what wierwille was spouting.
I must say.....that, even early on, I strongly doubted "the law of believing" as wierwille taught it.
Only what God promised, was the essence of sound scriptural believing. All that foolhardy stuff
about "believing equals receiving" was crap. Even in Philippians it noted "believing AND receiving."
Wierwille and co. had changed the scriptures to kowtow to the twi-doctrine.
Then, twi even taught that "giving EQUALS receiving" as it veered further off course.
And, for me, having grown up on a farm......you don't plant one wheat kernel and get back one. :doh:/>/>/>/>
So.....in response to your question, did anyone actually live the "abundant life?"
Gee, I highly doubt it......most that I saw thru the years who were "successful"
had already achieved success BEFORE coming to twi.
And, quite frankly........is the "abundant life" spiritual? If so......then I saw NO ONE IN TWI
who I'd classify as successful. If "abundant life" is economical, then.....even then, hardly
anyone had anything of significance compared to other high-flyers. But, there again....it all
depends on WHO one is compared to and what ABUNDANT LIFE means to you.
******
I will say.....that after exiting twi, I've enjoyed MORE of an abundant life, than anything
that resembled my former indentured servitude in twi.
Life is SO MUCH BETTER NOW. :)/>/>/>/>
.
Edited by skyriderLink to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
What is the abundant life? For the sake of consistency, suppose we define it as a life that meets the criteria listed on "The Green Card". If we think of PFAL as a product, like skin cream or weight loss pills, it should deliver the promised results to be considered effective. Pick a promise, any promise. Did it materialize? Yeah, I don't think so.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
This is probably the bigger question. I'm venturing to say there is no one answer, not even for one person.
TWI is the opposite of NO FEAR. Like with many religions, a good percentage of people involved knows it is false. There's greed, there's social/family ties folks don't want to sever, there's thinking they have no other place to go, there's a simply a cozy laziness to it - Too many thought processes and habits would have to change to do something else. Maybe they need to prove the nay-sayers wrong?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
"Maybe they need to prove the nay-sayers wrong?"
This seems to drive the resurgence of dedication I have seen lately on youtube and facebook. Although, with the health care and beauty product MLM's, most people do eventually accept that they were duped.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
Probably yeah . . . although in something like twi though I think it's much more personal than a physical product. The "nay-sayer" being family/social group at times . . . irrational gut reactions like this harder to view objectively.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
outandabout
As for physical abundance, how could we prosper financially when we couldn't follow a successful career path because we had to move every three years, or go WOW or had to have vacation in August. The needs of TWI had to come before our personal financial goals, plus out of the meager income we could generate due to all of the above, we had to ABS minimum 15% or God "wouldn't spit in our direction."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Broken Arrow
Hmm. Let's seen, I'll say freedom from fear. After session one I felt liberated from fear. I was thrilled to learn that I didn't have to live with fear. I had a nice "glowing" feeling leaving the class. Then again, it could have been the acid I took the night before. The glow lasted, oh, about 10 minutes into the next day when I had to face my real life.
I wanted my glow back, so I went into leadership and found that to be really scary. So I went into the Way Corps to learn how to handle the anxiety associated with leadership better. That turned out to be really really scary as I soon learned that every wrong thing that would ever go wrong in a branch, limb, or country, would be my fault :(
Link to comment
Share on other sites
outandabout
Well said!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
100% Free
Well said- you're right, the goal post was moved.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
We know it was SUPPOSED to mean "PHYSICAL ABUNDANCE" because the beginning of the pfal class-
and thus the beginning of the Orange Book- makes that transparent. vpw said he was dismayed
that non-Christians were demonstrating more "ABUNDANCE" than Christians.
Yes, twi's practices, in any practical sense, made it a LOT harder to achieve physical abundance
than not following them or just plain ignoring them.
But the people on top of twi, as always, they're living the abundant life, aren't they?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
To put it bluntly......no, they aren't.
Of course, all these depends on how one views "abundant life."
And, it depends on which twi-era we're talking about.
In wierwille's day, with a motorcoach, motorcycles and access to Ambassador One....
yeah, vpee was living large for a rural [cult] preacher. I would agree that, yes,
ole vic was surrounded by an abundance of adulation, adultery, accomodations, and
a-holes....er, accomplices of his own making.
But in today's twi.....Rosalie and Donna are mediocre micro-managers of a bland brand.
There is really nothing that blings or pops with a message of A-B-U-N-D-A-N-C-E.....
unless they are compared to average, lower middle class or the poverty stricken.
Where are the McMansions? the Bentleys? the designer clothes? the book-signing?
the world-travel jet-setters? the Mediterranean vacations? the Hollywood fan base?
the political/social connections and dynamics? Pppffffttt.
The internet is abuzz with thousands of examples of entertainers, entrepreneurs, athletes,
social and political elites, media personalities, evangelical prototypes, etc. etc. etc.
.....and even these don't even begin to breath the air of the billionaires worldwide.
So, yeah......I know it ALL DEPENDS on how one looks at "abundance and power, etc"
but from the wide swathes of society, Rosalie and Donna and the [cough, cough] bigwigs in twi,
most hardly make the middle-class grade of homeownership, livelihood, college degrees, etc.
And....from the standpoint of SPIRITUAL abundance?
:biglaugh: 
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
The abundant life, as defined by "the green card", is incongruous with the realities of TWI life. Imparts ability to separate truth from error? Nope. Promotes harmony in the home? Ixnay. The list is ad infinitum.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
I wholeheartedly agree.
But in terms of wierwille's statement in pfal where "non-Christians were exhibiting
more of an abundant life that Christians".....he ventured into MATERIAL ABUNDANCE.
In my post above, I cited abundance in the extreme......mansions, Bentleys, bling jewelry,
Mediterranean vacations, etc.....BECAUSE it seems like there is this claim that bigwigs in
twi live SO ABUNDANTLY.
Heck, even Rosalie's house isn't all that special. Yeah, nice of-sorts....but really?
I've been around the construction and service professions for decades and can tell you
in my city there are tens of thousands of homes that make Rosalie's house look very,
very average. Unless one is around this daily......you would hardly believe it.
Homes with six-car garages, indoor lap pools, 7200-14,500 square ft, art collections,
security monitoring, 24-ft vaulted ceilings, master closets with exercise equipment and
washer/dryer area, sculptures and grand pianos, etc. etc.
Yet, in twi.......cabinet members RENT houses,
region coordinators RENT houses,
is Donna still in a unit?....etc, etc.
Twi is SO small-ball.
Twi is an illusion of abundance.
If it wasn't so detrimental to many,
it would be outright laughable.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
All those years ago, most of us were little more than kids or young adults. Geeze, to me, abundance would have been finding enough loose change in the sofa cushions to buy TWO packs of smokes instead of one. In recalling the first session of PLAF (The Wonder Class), it's quite clear that VPW was implying physical abundance, nothing deeply spiritual or esoteric. That shift in definition came later, after the hook had been set. I use the green card as a criteria for the abundant life, rather than a subjective interpretation, because that was the listing of product benefits the class would supposedly help us attain.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
100% Free
Well said. It would be one thing if a person was well established in life and then made the decision to become way corps. But they prey on the young and vulnerable, and before you know it you haven't developed yourself and your options become very limited as you get older. The experiences and education the way Corps provided was nothing that could be brought to a new job. Nobody is hiring for a chair stringing temper tantrum throwing plastic utensil saver.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Watered Garden
Fortunately, I never graduated from the WC so I didn't have to live by their rules.
I've always lived a much more than abundant life, but not by The Way's definition.
"My God shall supply all your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus."
If you believe your needs include wealth and material riches, and you don't have a 6-7 figure income, you will feel poor. If you're thankful for every need being met and you trust in the Lord, not in an organization or an authority figure or a false prophet, you will be wealthy indeed.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
The only people who I ever observed living the "abundant life" (defined from a physical/financial perspective) were those who had mad etheir pile before getting involved in TWI, or inherited wealth.
Our local Twig Fuehrer inherited the fully paid-for house that he lived in when his parents died in a horrible car crash and then lectured the rest of us on how easy it was to own your own home without going into debt. Another guy owned a bunch of rental properties and then sold them all off when he took the PFAL class. The rest of us didn't see too much abundance.
While I'm far from rich right now, I've seen more "abundance" since I left TWI in 2001
Link to comment
Share on other sites
penworks
Me, too. Especially in peace of mind and gratitude for all the positive things in day-to-day living. I think many of us can say that TWI sucked the life out of us...and we're thankful we're out.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Broken Arrow
The more abundant life? Only around my waste line I'm afraid.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
outandabout
I actually have a personality now.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
Any definition of the more abundant life was generally a moving target..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Sometime in the 90s, lcm went off on one or more rants about how
"the abundant life" was spiritual and was never supposed to be physical.
That was after saying the opposite all across the 80s, of course.
The man just got crazier as the 90s progressed until even twi had to put a stop
to it-or, more to the point, twi's lawyers put a stop to it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.