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skyrider

Thirty Years and thirty pieces of silver

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This might only be sorta kinda on topic.

... or something like that.

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"If you hear him howlin' 'round your kitchen door, better not let him in."

Yep, sounds like it's on topic to me.

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There is so much knowledge, Biblical and other by the long standing folks here, what if that knowledge and energy where put to more efficient use, now that would be a sin to loose it. I understand the concept of the Doctrinal Forum but it does not get the hits like this forum has gotten. It's realized, that is not in the realm of the current mission statement but maybe it should be so that a wealth of knowledge does not get wasted.

MRAP....what you fail to realize in reading these postings is that, as posters, all of us have a life beyond this website. Surely, you don't picture us sitting at our keyboards all day long, year after year? That's absurd. After I post this, a full day awaits......work, activity, interaction, involvement, etc.

The past abuses of wierwille and twi are posted on "the doors of Greasespot Café" much like The Ninety-Five Theses. Did Martin Luther hate the Roman Catholic hierarchy? Was Luther's posting [supposedly, to the doors of the church] of church abuses a waste of time and energy? Was Luther's mission to contrast church abuses with the heart and intent of scripture a waste of knowledge?

MRAP.....you can assume whatever you want of the posters on the board. No matter. Some of us are living full, blessed and constructive lives AFTER LEAVING TWI'S ABUSES AND INDOCTRINATION. Many of us have children who are graduating from colleges with honors and moving into careers and livelihood that far outstrips twi's punitive little box of exploitation. With all that I've witnessed IN, and now OUT, of twi......I see why the scriptures give plenty of warnings to seducers, deceivers, wolves in sheep's clothing, etc. And, I hold to the scripture [Luke 4:18] that our postings are healing the brokenhearted, deliverance to the captives in twi, and recovering of sight to the blind.

Have a good day. I'm outta here.

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From what I can gather, MRAP's experience was shorter lived and even less exposed than mine. He certainly left before it got ugly at the twig level. He has no clue what the true believer went through to remain true. So he can be glad he did it because he didn't hang around long enough to have REALLY done it. Like me. But I'm not glad other than for some of the great people I met - very few of which I actually keep in contact with.

I used to think that 70% of what TWI was B.S. Now I think all of it was.

I can't think of one redeeming quality other than the level of cynicism towards religion it provoked.

We approached mainstream religion from an outsider's viewpoint. Some of us actually tried to embrace mainstream religion. I've determined that for me, cynicism towards all religious organizations works best.

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Thankyou skyrider for the mission statement of GSC: "Our mission is to provide information that tells the other side of the story about The Way International and its trustees". I will ask, are there other sides available, a discussion that encompasses many opinions which I understand are welcome. I am thankfull that I ran into twi and just as thankfull that I got outa twi before I was further brain washed - I learned alot.

(snip)

"The other side" meaning twi-and its offshoots, really- suppresses not only any chance for

disagreement, but any chance for open discussion. One guy started a pro-twi messageboard

and insisted the posters all be active twi'ers, and twi leaned on him to shut his board

down- since they didn't control it. So, at twi, everything else is fair game for

discussion- as is sycophantic vpw worship, but that rarely works out well for the

starry-eyed vpw fanatic.

I, personally, have posted, repeatedly,

"I'm glad I got in and glad I got out"- when it was on-topic.

I realize the intent/mission of GSC: bash twi.

After about 3 days, you CONCLUDED that's what it was about- and you just noted

that the mission is TO TELL THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY.

Grossly oversimplifying thousands of pages of posts is how you ended up

so wrong, and certainly isn't much use.

In monitoring, this forum has drawn the most passion I have seen for some time on a forum thread, the renewal of the bashing, don't get me wrong, it's well deserved but after this length of time, I simply ask, is it maybe time to bury the hatchet and move onto a new course - a new mission.

That's what twi wants. The GSC helps starve a fire of oxygen so nobody else gets burnt.

Even counting only those who post (a minority of overall visitors), we've had people post

who were introduced to twi in the past decade, but learned a lot from us and were

better-prepared when the twi'ers tried to indoctrinate them.

If there is a twi in existence, there is a need to shine a light on it and tell the truth

about it. For the most part, that's done. The GSC has succeeded in helping prevent

twi from indoctrinating and lying to new people, and it's now tottering along, with its

top leaders skimming off the top for comfortable lives with perks.

AT THIS TIME I WOULD ASK THAT A MODERATOR OR CONTROLLER MOVE THIS ONTO A NEW FORUM THREAD - CALL IT WHATEVER (you can take that a couple of ways) - SOMEONE OUT THERE KNOWS HOW TO DO THAT (much appreciated).

There is so much knowledge, Biblical and other by the long standing folks here, what if that knowledge and energy where put to more efficient use, now that would be a sin to loose it. I understand the concept of the Doctrinal Forum but it does not get the hits like this forum has gotten. It's realized, that is not in the realm of the current mission statement but maybe it should be so that a wealth of knowledge does not get wasted.

If you feel it should be done, YOU DO IT. Just go to the Doctrinal forum-as several people

have suggested- and start a thread on what's on your mind. That's not hard.

If anyone is interested, they'll join in. If you don't feel strongly enough about it to

spend 30 seconds to start the thread, why should the staff?

Oh, I see. You don't want to spend the effort on this supposedly worthy task,

AND you want more traffic driven to it than the Doctrinal forum would give,

despite it being suited for the Doctrinal forum.

If you're in it only for the recognition and for more people to read your posts,

you are in no shape to help anyone else, let alone pass judgement on them all.

NO, I am not here to try and highjack anything

(snip)

Of course not!

It's only an amazing coincidence that there's been 2 new threads in ATW since you

arrived, and within 1 1/2 pages, you've posted completely off-topic and complained

that nobody's posting topics on your pet subjects.

If you want those topics, start them yourself.

That's what everyone else does.

Except, you know, twi's top cadre, who designates "grunt-work" to the poor peons

still in twi, so they have indentured servants to handle things they don't

want to deal with (like having their own cook, laundry duties, cleaning,

reading internet posts...)

I really don't care to post, I just want to read

(snip)

You've posted a lot for someone who doesn't care to post.

Perhaps you're not being honest with yourself about what you want.

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When I first became involved in the early 1970's, everything was freewheeling. We had spontaneous fellowships, picnics, potlucks, bar hopping recruitment events, and so on. We had fun. The commitment aspect ramped-up slowly. As time went on, the expectation of commitment became such that you were seen as dead weight if you weren't interested in taking on more responsibility. Training program recruitment became more and more prevalent. I opted for a program that was touted as a way to gain 2 years of in-depth, in-residence leadership training and then return home more qualified as a leader. Maybe that's what B.G. Leonard had in mind. I never took his class (the forerunner of what would become VPW's PFAL) so I don't really know. What I really got was a chance to see what life is like in a religious commune. There was very little formal training of any sort..... leadership, scriptural or otherwise. Every waking moment was controlled, when you awoke, when you slept, what and when you ate, even if and when you were permitted to have intimate time with your spouse. It was not at all like what I had signed on for nor did it resemble my earlier experiences. Quite frankly, it was a bait and switch to recruit drones for "the ministry". You couldn't question it, you couldn't voice disagreement. You had to keep you mouth shut and do what you were told, lest you be accused of being weak or devil possessed.

For people who only experienced the first part of my description or who experienced an augmented version of the training programs, I can see why they might be at a loss to understand why one can't just walk away and forget it all. It's ingrained in the psyche, like layers of an onion. Peel away one layer and another appears to take its place. I don't think you can really understand the concept unless you've experienced it. I give those people the benefit of a doubt and hope they'll be kind enough to do the same for me.

Edited by waysider
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"Charismatic Christians" and Pentecostals would be the other Christians supposedly

rounding out the 9.

As for Roman Catholics, they have a Pope, not a President. They didn't elect

their Pope, the College of Cardinals elected him (IMHO, they did a great job there.)

If he meant some US-specific thing, he got his numbers seriously wrong because the

US doesn't have 1/2 the RCC membership worldwide. Less than 50% are in the Western

Hemisphere, and Brazil has more than 1/2 of those.

There are charismatic Catholics and "third wave" Evangelicals and the list goes on and on. Seems you can't keep these things in a box and TWI sure doesn't, and never did, hold the corner on the so-called manifestations.

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The thing I've been realizing about TWI is that there is no going beyond the Advanced Class. That was considered the pinnacle of knowledge and spiritual growth. The Corps had classes also in residence but they still mirrored the basic doctrines of TWI. There is nothing new - the same doctrine over and over again.

Same doctrine. Same stories. Same monotony. Repeat.

Add the wierwille-mystique in the mix....and the building blocks of a cult of personality was in the making. Yeah, those first two months in the corps program and we sat thru all those "advanced" classes again.....ie renewed mind, dealing with the adversary, the way tree, etc. Okay, I get it....making sure that we're primed for **greater learning** to come, right? BUT IT NEVER CAME. Even when wierwille was on-campus, it was just rehashed pfal and wierwille-heritage ego. That's why I continue to label it corps indoctrination with the end view of twi-servitude.

It was a seduction in the first order. They were leading us astray from "serving the Lord" to the deceptive end of serving twi.

The same can be said of the clergy. There was NO HIGHER LEARNING, OR INSTRUCTION to twi's clergy. And, in my clergy acceptance letter, when they noted "the fellowship of the clergy household"......there was NO clergy fellowship as a group. There was NO clergy household. What a load of bull-pookie. Wierwille gave a few mandates to the clergy, but he didn't teach. Nor did Martindale. They could pontificate, but vpw/lcm could NOT teach the demonstration of God's power......because they were NOT doing it.

So, yeah.......the advanced class material was the canned spiel. Reading the records from the Old Testament and then, clarifying or assigning a definition to those other SIX manifestations [word of knowledge, word of wisdom, discerning of spirits, faith, miracles and healings]. And, we had to sit thru tangents in the advanced class like.....the thirteenth tribe, the myth of the six million, the Marxist minstrels, none dare call it conspiracy, etc. Agendas and conspiracy theories in a spiritual context. Private interpretation in the advanced class.

Now....don't you feel good about being an advanced class grad? :anim-smile:/>/>

.

Edited by skyrider

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Now....don't you feel good about being an advanced class grad? :anim-smile:/>/>/>

The Advanced Class was a massive disappointment. I came away in a severe state of depression, disappointed and concerned that I seemed to be the only one who didn't "get" it. Even worse, I was starting to wonder why so much of it seemed like nonsense.

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The Advanced Class was a massive disappointment. I came away in a severe state of depression, disappointed and concerned that I seemed to be the only one who didn't "get" it. Even worse, I was starting to wonder why so much of it seemed like nonsense.

And, THAT was how it was crafted.

In pfal, wierwille sternly addressed the students TO NOT QUESTION THE MAN OF GOD. Why, if you start down that road, then pretty soon you question his conduct, the tie he wears and "we get down to the bare facts." (yuck, yuck) The subliminal message was that you have NO right to question his teachings, his conduct, or his morals. So, later....at the advanced class, the mold has been set. NO ONE questions the class material.

The "release groups" have nothing to do with releasing [what you are really thinking]. They are designed to reinforce and regurgitate the day's teachings. No questioning. Usually, a corps person is in charge and monitors the group. Peer pressure and intimidation are used as an effective hammer to silence any dissent.

And, advanced class grads are sent forth and instructed to NOT SHARE THIS MATERIAL with other non-acgrads. The silencing and seduction continues.......year after year.

.

Edited by skyrider

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The "release groups" have nothing to do with releasing [what you are really thinking]. They are designed to reinforce and regurgitate the day's teachings. No questioning. Usually, a corps person is in charge and monitors the group. Peer pressure and intimidation are used as an effective hammer to silence any dissent.

For those who never had the privilege (cough) of attending an Advanced Class, these release groups were small, assigned twigs that we were required to attend and participate in every afternoon. The above description is right on point. They were designed in such a way as to keep the individual from thinking critically about the material being covered and the overall experience. They were monitored closely.

P.S. Don't get me started on the "initiation into the inner sanctum". :evildenk:

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And, advanced class grads are sent forth and instructed to NOT SHARE THIS MATERIAL with other non-acgrads. The silencing and seduction continues.......year after year.

One did not share any of this info, lest there would be fewer students next year One did not share any of this info, lest there would be fewer students next year to pay their money for the same knowledge!.

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One did not share any of this info, lest there would be fewer students next year One did not share any of this info, lest there would be fewer students next year to pay their money for the same knowledge!.

One did not share any of this.....lest the mystique of wierwille-adulation diminish.

One did not share any of this.....lest the ac nametag be less desired by others.

The caste system has its perks.

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One did not share any of this because, somewhere deep inside, you knew people would think you were bonkers for believing it. :wink2:

Edited by waysider

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I remember thinking that they must have "watered down" the teaching because people weren't "spiritually mature" enough for the real stuff that was taught in the original class. But all you guys who took the class before I did had the same experience.

Any one else have the experience of other students getting "revelation" that amounted to judging other students for nit picky stuff? I remember that was a big deal - and the more "revelation" you got the more "spiritually mature" you were. Then again I took the class in the summer of 1993 right before the homosexual purge happened.

Good times, good times...

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Now that I really think about it, it was probably the summer 1994 class, because I was out WOW at the time, and we came back to the ROA and WOW was cancelled due to homo infestation... So many weird things to think about so many years later. Ugh. And to think I stayed in until 2008. God, forgive me for being so gullible and naïve.

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Always felt I was a lesser of a believer for not having taken the AC. I had a life to live and funding did not allow me to travel to the places it was being offered - yes, not enough money to learn the word - yet, as I found out, as a Twig leader, we were doing more than folks in the Corp and many Corp grads. Yet, I should have called it game years before, I was picking up on the crap and knew better but there was the fear factor - it took a breaking point before calling it game. Shoot, if I had not been finacially supporting folks in the Corp, then I would have had money to go and take the AC. I have no idea what ever happened to the folks I supported in the Corp. Why do I keep capitalizing the "Corp"?

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Always felt I was a lesser of a believer for not having taken the AC. I had a life to live and funding did not allow me to travel to the places it was being offered - yes, not enough money to learn the word - yet, as I found out, as a Twig leader, we were doing more than folks in the Corp and many Corp grads. Yet, I should have called it game years before, I was picking up on the crap and knew better but there was the fear factor - it took a breaking point before calling it game. Shoot, if I had not been finacially supporting folks in the Corp, then I would have had money to go and take the AC. I have no idea what ever happened to the folks I supported in the Corp. Why do I keep capitalizing the "Corp"?

And, see.....

THAT's why the posters at greasespot are here to tell the other side of the story, the seduction.

I, too, was doing more before going thru the corps indoctrination and selling "the enhanced conformity." But in reality, the twigs (as rallied around the wierwille factor).....were slowly conforming to legalized consumption. The corps program sped up the process.

The question is NOT "why do I keep capitalizing the corps?"

The question IS....."why do I keep calling him DR. Wierwille?"

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And, see.....

THAT's why the posters at greasespot are here to tell the other side of the story, the seduction.

I, too, was doing more before going thru the corps indoctrination and selling "the enhanced conformity." But in reality, the twigs (as rallied around the wierwille factor).....were slowly conforming to legalized consumption. The corps program sped up the process.

The question is NOT "why do I keep capitalizing the corps?"

The question IS....."why do I keep calling him DR. Wierwille?"

Corps = corpse.

Wierwille = corpse.

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Just in case anyone was sleeping when the news broke, VPW did not have a real doctorate, though he had no problem with letting people think he did..

HERE

Edited by waysider

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Why do I keep capitalizing the "Corp"?

Possibly because, unlike most of us, you actually were in THE Corps.

Edited by Broken Arrow
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I read the syllabus and decided not to take the advanced class. Actually, I only took one other class - maybe christian family and sex? IDK. I think it was because I remember thinking how ironic it was that they tried to keep me from bringing my nursing baby.

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I read the syllabus and decided not to take the advanced class. Actually, I only took one other class - maybe christian family and sex? IDK. I think it was because I remember thinking how ironic it was that they tried to keep me from bringing my nursing baby.

IIRC,

the "Christian Family & Sex" class

(about 1 session on Christian Family at most and 6 sessions on sex)

was a required prerequisite for the Advanced Class.

Just in case anyone was sleeping when the news broke, VPW did not have a real doctorate, though he had no problem with letting people think he did..

HERE

vpw's doctorate was from an unaccredited source.

What does that mean?

That means his doctorate in Theology is as legitimate in my 3 unaccredited doctorates.

I was granted 3 doctorates on this messageboard.

1 was in Theology,

1 was in Bible Truths,

1 was in Using Boldface To Make Your Posts Easier To Read.

It also means I'm three times the doctor he was,

or 2x the doctor he was in subjects relating to the Bible.

And, see.....

THAT's why the posters at greasespot are here to tell the other side of the story, the seduction.

I, too, was doing more before going thru the corps indoctrination and selling "the enhanced conformity." But in reality, the twigs (as rallied around the wierwille factor).....were slowly conforming to legalized consumption. The corps program sped up the process.

The question is NOT "why do I keep capitalizing the corps?"

The question IS....."why do I keep calling him DR. Wierwille?"

He actually preferred being called "THE Teacher" when he got away with it.

Calling him "Doctor" Wierwille was actually a compromise.

(Thus saith Doctor WordWolf.)

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