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Might this be why the Moneyhands were M&A?

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On 5/7/2017 at 4:09 AM, skyrider said:

This letter from "Way Corps ministers" is so lame that it borders on pathetic.

"The future of our ministry is in peril." ...................really? just now you guys figured this out?

"Way Corps ministers" that have been indoctrinated for 40 years have little chance of "revival and restoration"........unless outside sources point the way out of the woods.  This whole letter is generic mumbo-jumbo........like a Geer-redux (1986).  Numbers and symptoms are pointed out, but the root of these problems escape them.  Why are corps dropping away?  Why are class numbers so anemic?  Why is the whole thing so dead?

Greasespot Café has been addressing these issues for 17 years........deception, intimidation, indoctrination, exploitation, pharisaic-rule, no accountability, cult behavior, double-standards, arrogant hypocrisy at top levels, liars, abusers, enablers, etc.  And, we didn't just spotlight rivenbark's leadership and micromanagement.......here at GSC, we pulled back the curtains to expose wierwille and his pyramid-scheme, in all its treachery.  The systematizing of error has taken root for decades.  To simply confront rivenbark's tenure, character, and age is abysmal in its approach.

Yeah......unless Bob Moynihan, Gary Frederick, Michael Fort, Paul Brooks and others just want to "move the deck chairs around on the titanic"......they need to get serious and roll up their sleeves.  The place is a MESS. 

They need OUTSIDE CONSULTATION AND SUPPORT to even begin the process.  NONE of them, it appears, have the wherewithal to break the institutionalization of twi's cult and get back to solid ground of Christian living and revival.

Unless their little Q&A accommodates input from GSC-posters, the blind will continue to fall in the ditch. 

 

Sky, same sheet, different day.

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On 5/7/2017 at 2:32 AM, DontWorryBeHappy said:

Too little too late imo!

I am supposed to believe that these asswipe third rate Corpse grads, most of whose names I still know, along with a lot of the lies, misdeeds, and actual "working of evil" their resumes contain,  have been INNOCENTLY STUCK ON STUPID FOR 40 FREAKING YEARS??? C'mon man! That's simply the same old sob stories and failed excuses they've been living in and with for 3 decades. That does not speak to anything close to being "Way Corpse ministers". Rather it reveals the insanity of their beliefs and "thinking", in that they have repeatedly tried the same .... over and over again for 30 years, and expecting different results.

Lying, adultery, deceit, serial sexual abuse and "indiscretions", corrupt, self-serving "counseling", stealing, misuse, and non-disclosure of TWIt finances, spurious, false, and anti(against)-Christ doctrine, practice, and thinking, the spiritual abuse of innocent Christians, the covering up of numerous suicides, mental breakdowns and severe mental illnesses left untreated and then given the "devil spirit possession" label, which led to the cruel, heartless, and UN-Christ-like expulsion from the "household of believers", libel, slander, and falsehoods spread viciously through the spitting, vengeful, lying lips  of "top leadership" from coast to coast and around the world. Rejoicing in iniquity and the destruction of others just for spite became the "leadership" norm for 30 years. Now, you who committed the same crimes and abuses against Jesus Christ's Church, and carried out and executed evil unbiblical acts and behavior, expect to be followed because you're gonna do it right this time?? I THINK NOT!

YOU ALL MUST FIRST REPENT BEFORE JESUS CHRIST, and then seek forgiveness from those you have injured and abused. READ AND CARRY OUT MATTHEW chapter 8! Then I'll think about wasting my precious time once more on your man-made religious bigotry and hatred.

WE KNOW YOU BY YOUR FRUIT! It has been grossly rotten for over 40 years now. Guess that old tree must be rotten to its roots, along with those who supposedly "plant and water".

The mental terrorism you perpetrated against those who honestly gave everything they had only to be dropped like a bag of dirt at the whims and fancies of corrupt, pathological, tyrants, who enjoyed ruling with fascist fists of iron rather than velvet gloves of Christian love, is not taken lightly by Jesus Christ. The rampant sexual promiscuity and serial adultery and physical abuse also destroyed or humiliated hundreds of young women. The misogyny, racism, Naziism, Aryanism, fascism, emotional and psychological terrorism only worsened during the last 30 years you morons have presumed to be in charge. You have raped and plundered God's most precious "property".....His children. Your time at your delusional "bema" will be short! Rewards? LOL! I think it will be more like, "I never knew you!"

So.......repent first, then, come clean with the true facts and misdeeds you have committed against the Church BEFORE THE CHURCH, then apologize, and ask for forgiveness from those you directly and personally injured, and then ask for forgiveness from the Church. THEN AND ONLY THEN will I consider listening to anything you have to say. HYPOCRITES AND WHITED SEPULCHERS. PHARISEES AND SCRIBES. LIARS AND THIEVES. Let's see if once in these last 40 years you can DO the right thing!

We'll see!

DWBH, great post!!!  You are an excellent writer!

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DWBH, I wanted to post that on some points you have slightly exaggerated or embellished the actual truth and facts somewhat.....and yet, I cannot ! You are absolutely right on EVERY POINT. Even the fact you noted ' around the world', or I should say, to the 'the uttermost parts of the earth' their poneros and kakos pervaded. "Twice around the world to make people twice the child of hell you yourselves are" - Jesus

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On 5/7/2017 at 12:50 AM, Rocky said:

What this letter (below) proposes is indeed laborious and futile.

Yes, and they did actually realize that.  No revival, no restoration.  I wonder if they are going to change the group name...

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49 minutes ago, Taxidev said:

Yes, and they did actually realize that.  No revival, no restoration.  I wonder if they are going to change the group name...

I wonder if they're going to expand their learning horizons beyond what they've become fossilized in with TWI dogma.

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2 hours ago, Rocky said:

I wonder if they're going to expand their learning horizons beyond what they've become fossilized in with TWI dogma.

I don't know which would be a bigger trainwreck-  that they don't expand their learning, or that they do.

If they don't expand, they're just fossilized leftovers from twi.  But when we see twi splinters "expand", we get mess-ups like endorsing Momentus and the "personal prophecy" thing. And they can't be fixed because they can't accept they'd mess up that badly- and worse, that people like us saw it coming a mile away, can identify the problem at a moment's glance, and begin outlining solutions.

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2 hours ago, WordWolf said:

I don't know which would be a bigger trainwreck-  that they don't expand their learning, or that they do.

If they don't expand, they're just fossilized leftovers from twi.  But when we see twi splinters "expand", we get mess-ups like endorsing Momentus and the "personal prophecy" thing. And they can't be fixed because they can't accept they'd mess up that badly- and worse, that people like us saw it coming a mile away, can identify the problem at a moment's glance, and begin outlining solutions.

Good points. Oh and let's not forget Gallegher's new doctrine to ensure bondage to church leaders...

My point actually had been not that they needed to continue off on hubris-like course of thinking they were coming up with the latest and greatest revelation from God since the First Century, but rather becoming humble and recognizing that they actually don't need to be pioneers in order to walk on the path of God's will.

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11 hours ago, Rocky said:

I wonder if they're going to expand their learning horizons beyond what they've become fossilized in with TWI dogma.

They have accepted no learning centers outside of TWI based doctrine.  They interact with no other Biblical scholars.  They take input from no other Christians, except those that agree to go to their fellowships.  

I don't wonder at all.

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5 hours ago, chockfull said:

They have accepted no learning centers outside of TWI based doctrine.  They interact with no other Biblical scholars.  They take input from no other Christians, except those that agree to go to their fellowships.  

I don't wonder at all.

You know, I think you are 100% correct.  I hadn't given it much thought until I saw this.  There's no indication anywhere that they are looking to any other viewpoints than VPW and Steven Longley's recent research.

Wow!

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21 hours ago, Rocky said:

Good points. Oh and let's not forget Gallegher's new doctrine to ensure bondage to church leaders...

Oye...I'm dumbfounded on that "new" revelation. I don't think it will sell very well, especially if he is trying to convert those who converted from TWI to CES to STF, and now his "Lean On Jesus."  Even that title is not new!

Edited by Rejoice

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On 5/7/2017 at 2:32 AM, DontWorryBeHappy said:

Too little too late imo!

I am supposed to believe that these asswipe third rate Corpse grads, most of whose names I still know, along with a lot of the lies, misdeeds, and actual "working of evil" their resumes contain,  have been INNOCENTLY STUCK ON STUPID FOR 40 FREAKING YEARS??? C'mon man! That's simply the same old sob stories and failed excuses they've been living in and with for 3 decades. That does not speak to anything close to being "Way Corpse ministers". Rather it reveals the insanity of their beliefs and "thinking", in that they have repeatedly tried the same .... over and over again for 30 years, and expecting different results.

Lying, adultery, deceit, serial sexual abuse and "indiscretions", corrupt, self-serving "counseling", stealing, misuse, and non-disclosure of TWIt finances, spurious, false, and anti(against)-Christ doctrine, practice, and thinking, the spiritual abuse of innocent Christians, the covering up of numerous suicides, mental breakdowns and severe mental illnesses left untreated and then given the "devil spirit possession" label, which led to the cruel, heartless, and UN-Christ-like expulsion from the "household of believers", libel, slander, and falsehoods spread viciously through the spitting, vengeful, lying lips  of "top leadership" from coast to coast and around the world. Rejoicing in iniquity and the destruction of others just for spite became the "leadership" norm for 30 years. Now, you who committed the same crimes and abuses against Jesus Christ's Church, and carried out and executed evil unbiblical acts and behavior, expect to be followed because you're gonna do it right this time?? I THINK NOT!

YOU ALL MUST FIRST REPENT BEFORE JESUS CHRIST, and then seek forgiveness from those you have injured and abused. READ AND CARRY OUT MATTHEW chapter 8! Then I'll think about wasting my precious time once more on your man-made religious bigotry and hatred.

WE KNOW YOU BY YOUR FRUIT! It has been grossly rotten for over 40 years now. Guess that old tree must be rotten to its roots, along with those who supposedly "plant and water".

The mental terrorism you perpetrated against those who honestly gave everything they had only to be dropped like a bag of dirt at the whims and fancies of corrupt, pathological, tyrants, who enjoyed ruling with fascist fists of iron rather than velvet gloves of Christian love, is not taken lightly by Jesus Christ. The rampant sexual promiscuity and serial adultery and physical abuse also destroyed or humiliated hundreds of young women. The misogyny, racism, Naziism, Aryanism, fascism, emotional and psychological terrorism only worsened during the last 30 years you morons have presumed to be in charge. You have raped and plundered God's most precious "property".....His children. Your time at your delusional "bema" will be short! Rewards? LOL! I think it will be more like, "I never knew you!"

So.......repent first, then, come clean with the true facts and misdeeds you have committed against the Church BEFORE THE CHURCH, then apologize, and ask for forgiveness from those you directly and personally injured, and then ask for forgiveness from the Church. THEN AND ONLY THEN will I consider listening to anything you have to say. HYPOCRITES AND WHITED SEPULCHERS. PHARISEES AND SCRIBES. LIARS AND THIEVES. Let's see if once in these last 40 years you can DO the right thing!

We'll see!

DWBH, excellent post!!  I wish I had these truths 40 years ago; I would have left TWI much sooner than I did!:nono5:

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On 5/6/2017 at 9:50 PM, Rocky said:

Some of my thoughts to the lists including in the letter which I'm putting my responses to in bold - nothing new, but a good exercise for me. It's mostly humorous in a sad sort of way how they list out these points as if adding some structure to it all is better than just saying "Bye!! Seeya!! Wouldn't wanna beya!!! Call me if you ever grow a heart!" 

Anyway, my thoughts and elucidations and enlightenments, written as only I, socks, could. Can. Did. 

------------------------------------

  1. Lift the non-Biblical “no debt” policy that excludes classes and service to those in debt. Rather, continue to teach God’s will of living within our means, working heartily as unto the Lord, and sharing of our abundance.

    They have no business forming "policies" to govern the behaviors of members of the body of Christ that share in their fellowship. Way-fers - get out of the business of putting burdensome rules and regulations of all types on the backs of your members, yokes that have always been a burden to those who live under them and none have ever been able to assume! 

  2. Eliminate the “absolute” power of the current self-appointed board. Replace it with a larger elected board with established term limits and input from the entire Way Corps household.

    Dissolve the business of the Way Inc. International and the Boards, appointed or self appointed. Why in the world would you get rid of one small suffocating Board and replace it with an even LARGER BOARD - so that it's "elected?" - that only allows you in your self appointed excellency to get the Board YOU WANT, and apply term limits so that if they don't behave as you think correct you can elect others that will. 

  3. Bring The Way Corps meetings back to their roots to include spiritually energized, in-depth teachings of God’s Word with an emphasis on scope and a word-by-word study of the scripture.

    How about just reading the Bible together, forget the indepth "spiritually enegergized" word by word baloney. You can get that from reading an Amplified Bible and using Young's. Instead of running endless sit-on-your-butt-in-a-hard-chair meetings where participants come in, sit down, shut up and listen to some know it all drone on forever about something they realized one day while they were staring at their bible for 13 hours, just READ the book, read it, talk about it, share amongst each other, go off and THINK ABOUT IT and come back together to discuss and share with each other. LEARN, don't churn. 

  4. Redesign Sunday Teaching Services with an energized service and teachers that motivate and inspire believing. Stream the teachings—we have the fiber optic cable already in place to do so. “Spiritual weakness and inability is caused by improper diet and neglect of the Word.” --VPW

    You put 3 unrelated demands under one bullet - this is the kind of disorganized thinking that's pervasive in those who have lived in and under the Way's influence for years, sequestered in what was taught 50 years ago as "new". You wanted to say - 

    - Have some decent teachers of God's Word teaching in the SNS
    - Stream teachings, make them available using the same technology people all over the word are using to share their messages and work with others
    - Don't neglect the Word of God

  5. Rethink how Way Corps assignments and placements are handled. Post open positions. Way Corps assignments should be in conjunction with each Way Corps minister, ensuring these decisions really are “best for the individual” and then the ministry by having open discussions and transparent motives.

    Dr. VPW never did any of this, decisions were made for most of the Way Corps by himself and the Way's "leaders" in private meetings, and unless a Way Corps person had the brains and experience to get involved in the decisions, they were made for them and if they disagreed they'd be given the 'my way or the highway' answer - quite literally too. So - you're heading in the right direction but it's one that the Way NEVER tried or used. The BEST direction would be to get out of the business of making any kind of decisions for others lives to accomplish YOUR goals and intents and allow people to live their own lives under God's own sun, grace and love. But remember - this isn't the result of Rosalie or some more recent rugrat you don't like running the Way, it's been that way long before them. 

  6. Reestablish the Word living within a base of youth to lead us into the next generation, or the ministry will not survive. Reenergize their participation by respecting their needs for “Hot Bible,” musical alternatives, listening for and seeking their input, and honoring their desire for fellowship with one another.

    This sounds like it was written by a couch full of cranky, hopeless old geezers. How about letting PEOPLE LIVE THEIR OWN LIVES AND BRING THAT TO THE TABLE? HOW ABOUT LEARNING FROM AND LETTING OTHERS - EVEN GOD! - TELL YOU WHAT'S UP AND WHAT'S HOT OR NOT, INSTEAD OF TRYING TO MANAGE AND MANIPULATE TRUE SPIRITUAL REVIVAL AFTER YOUR OWN IMAGE?

  7. Reestablish a research team. This is vital to restore the foundation of our ministry to the integrity of the Word.
    You'd be better off just reading your Bibles and thinking of ways to reach and help others in real ways that people need. 

  8. Reach out to re-engage Way Corps ministers who have been dropped or have discontinued their Way Corps service due to their conscience based on the Word, family needs, health or other issues.
    Don't hold your breath - the Way and the Way Corps are the ultimate "old wine skin". Those who have moved on have done just that. You're playing catch up - get busy with your own lives. 

--------------------------------------------------------

The fruit of our current leadership for the past decade has become increasingly apparent.

  1. In the past 10 years we have lost over 150 Way Corps ministers. Combined with continuing small in-residence Corps classes, the overall Way Corps numbers are in a sharp decline.

    That's what we call "take a hint". You've lost EVERYone with a heart and a brain, over the years. Welcome to the club, "the fruit of the current leadership" has been in a destructive cycle of jam for a looooooooooooong time. 

  2. The number of new graduates who stand following completion of classes is dropping. Because qualified Advanced Class candidate numbers have dropped so low, there is no longer a need to do a class every year.

    Yeah, that makes sense to you now, does it?

  3. There has been a steady decrease in the number of believers seeking employment at The Way International and there is a high turnover rate.

    What a surprise, how long has that been going on, or did you just notice that in the last "10 years"? 

  4. Attendance at Sunday Teaching Services at The Way International Headquarters and at on-the-field phone hookups is consistently low.

    That's a good thing, really, think of all the good things those people are doing instead of carting themselves into that mildewy sweat lodge you call the WOW Auditorium to endure yet another hour or two of boredom?

  5. The Way International has a book value of all assets over $68 million, however believers often pay a facility fee to meet as a State or Branch, or they meet in only “budget” or “free” spaces.  There are less and less full time ministers on the field and in many Regions only one full time couple in the entire Region. This inequality is non-Biblical and begs the question of how the abundant sharing is utilized. There is no transparency. (II Corinthians 8:14)

    Not sure what this bitch is about - it's two things, one the practice of each field area paying their own way with minimal support BACK to them from the Way Nash, and the fact that you can't get a self respecting minister of God's Church to stick around with you so there's a shortage. As for the field funding policies, yYou can thank your Father in the Word for that - that's been the Way's policy since day one. And "transparency" - ??? Please, you're killin' me here! 

  6. There is continued mistreatment of long-standing, faithful believers and leadership. Without dialogue and nothing resembling I Timothy 5:19-21, numerous ministers—including seasoned Officers, Region coordinators, State coordinators, Branch coordinators, and others on Headquarters Staff—have been abruptly removed, mishandled, and in several cases barred from fellowship. This is inexcusable.

    Uh yeah. Just notice that, did you? How many of those censures, terminations and shunning humiliations of the "believers" did you silently ignore or actively support? Again, that's been going on for as long as I can remember. 

  7. The Board of Directors have refused to dialogue regarding the Biblical confrontation for which they were rebuked on August 12, 2016. The attached letters were sent asking for representatives to meet with the Board of Directors and later to attend the Region coordinator’s meetings so concerns could be effectually represented. The only option given was meeting with one couple at a time, not in a suggested Acts 15-type leadership meeting. The Board of Directors continue to move ahead unrepentant.

    Yeah well....everyone in the Way eventually hits this point where they think as you did - "well, this is ME, I'm sending them these really well written and thought out biblically sound points and objections and since it's ME, a long standing supporter, friend, fellow heir of all God's grace and really swell person, well, THEY'LL LISTEN TO ME AND RESPOND".............and now you know what it's been like when you sat by and others slowly peeled off over the years, years you thought you were really really really part of the Way Family. You weren't. You were only as good and needed as your money and your agreement.

--------------------------------------------------------------

The future of our ministry is in peril.

No, the ministries' of the Body of Christ are given by God to the Body to help it and to bring increase to the body. What's failing and in peril is your own man made matrix of religious entanglements. THE ministries are and always be alive, and in service to God and His people within those who choose to believe and live for it. Get a clue - you got out, now get right - in your heads, hearts and legs - and keep moving forward. I wish you all the best!

 

 

Edited by socks
It's done. Finally. I left the cases at the agreed upon location. Did you bring the money? I'm gonna need more now.
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Hi all,

I used to be fairly active on Waydale. I stop in here occasionally for "gossip." Rarely post. These last couple of visits I just have to as I find it unbelievable that these folks are still involved.

I took PFAL in '74,  first ROA in '74. 10th Corpse, left in Oct. 1986 in that first major exodus. Interim year at HQ.

This excerpt in toto is by Ralph and is from a thread I started in Waydale called "TWI I, II, and III." I believe it was one of the most illuminating threads ever because Ralph was involved as well as Dave Anderson.  I think he summed it up well.

I also do not believe Wierwille ever expected the growth that he got, but, let's face it: they used cutting edge media materials back then for the class. I have my own views on all this, but I also see that the later folks, those who did not get involved until the 80's or later seem to have missed a time when the Ministry was actually fun and healing. A lot of this info, and it's mutation into a cult, to paraphrase Ralph, is in that old thread mentioned above. 

I thought I found it many moons ago in the Waydale   archives somewhere but had to look a bit for it.

Some of you might find it useful. Here is the pdf of Ralph's take on it. I hope it sheds some light for you. January 2000.

RalphDubofskySummation.pdf

Edited by engine
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I'm a GENIUS. I found da' link!

Enjoy. BUT, the text of the pdf by Ralph that I posted from my personal files is cut off on the link above. I don't know why.

I forgot how much info is in there from Dave Anderson and Evan Pyle, et al.

Edited by engine
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Yeah, DWBH. Truly.

Edited by engine
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On 6/24/2018 at 7:22 PM, Rocky said:

I wonder if they're going to expand their learning horizons beyond what they've become fossilized in with TWI dogma.

Rocky, bingo!!  I think they are so caught up in their Way Hog Wash dogma, they will not be able to change.  Nor do they want to.

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Hey all! Haven't hopped on  in a while! wow!! Any updates on what the response to this letter was? or are birds still chirping? I still know/talk sort of to some in that letter!

 

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