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Plagiarism on the road to success

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3 hours ago, Mike said:

Has anyone here ever read "God's Smuggler" by Brother Andrew?

I heard years after reading it that maybe some was not so factual.

But that aside.....  when I read it I felt that he was doing the right thing even though it was against the law.

From posts here am I to believe most here would condemn as against God's moral law not only Brother Andrew, but the American Revolution as well?

Yes I have.  I'm kind of wondering what kind of weird parallel you are drawing here bringing it up.  I really don't see how Brother Andrew's harrowing struggles smuggling Bibles into countries where they are illegal equates to stealing the guy who led you into speaking in tongues book about it, publishing it as your own original work with your name on it as author,  printing it under your own printing press, and selling it for $$$$.  How much overall revenue do you think The Way realized through sales of Receiving the Holy Spirit today?

People estimate 100,000 people took PFAL, and those books were like priced between $5 and $9 for the most part, right?  

This is actually measurable.

Also, the word sacrosanct is just dumb.  Just sayin'.

Edited by chockfull

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That brings to mind the times in the Old Testament when God would tell the children of Israel to completely wipe out (destroy) other (pagan) peoples

And sometimes (not always), the told the children of Israel to take the spoils of war for themselves

Of course this is not exactly plagiarizing....but something akin to it...

Dare I ask the question?

Could God have possibly have told someone to plagiarize something in order to get the word out about it more effectively than the original author??

(I've got my polycarbonate rock deflector in place to protect myself from any possible attacks because of that question - it's just a hypothetical question guys & gals, please don't take it the wrong way......remember, let him who is without sin cast the first stone......love thy neighbor as thyself.....etc, etc, etc)...

Edited by GoldStar

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17 minutes ago, GoldStar said:

That brings to mind the times in the Old Testament when God would tell the children of Israel to completely wipe out (destroy) other (pagan) peoples

And sometimes (not always), the told the children of Israel to take the spoils of war for themselves

Of course this is not exactly plagiarizing....but something akin to it...

Dare I ask the question?

Could God have possibly have told someone to plagiarize something in order to get the word out about it more effectively than the original author??

(I've got my polycarbonate rock deflector in place to protect myself from any possible attacks because of that question - it's just a hypothetical question guys & gals, please don't take it the wrong way......remember, let him who is without sin cast the first stone......love thy neighbor as thyself.....etc, etc, etc)...

Why are you afraid that someone might disagree with you?

My answer to your hypothetical question of what God could possibly have told someone to do... is how would anyone know whether God would have done so?

Put another way, you posted a good comment about civil society needing laws... why would God tell someone to plagiarize someone else's copyrighted work?

Wouldn't it have made more sense for God to tell Wierwille to either ask permission or give proper credit to authors he borrowed from? That is, unless Wierwille was more interested in giving himself the glory as opposed to giving it to God.

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17 minutes ago, GoldStar said:

That brings to mind the times in the Old Testament when God would tell the children of Israel to completely wipe out (destroy) other (pagan) peoples

And sometimes (not always), the told the children of Israel to take the spoils of war for themselves

Of course this is not exactly plagiarizing....but something akin to it...

Dare I ask the question?

1). It was not plaigerized from enemies, they were fellow Christians

2). It was not plagerized from pagans, they were fellow Christians

(Plaigerism from enemies and pagans is bad enough, from fellow Christians is even worst)

3). There were no wars, therefore no spoils of war.

17 minutes ago, GoldStar said:

Could God have possibly have told someone to plagiarize something in order to get the word out about it more effectively than the original author??

Would a loving father take two steal from two of his children to give to one child who insists on breaking fellowship constantly?

It breaks down to how big you think God is. Could God have pointed people who wanted to learn in the direction of BG Leonards class? If Saint Vic why not anybody else?

 

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1 hour ago, chockfull said:

.... I'm kind of wondering what kind of weird parallel you are drawing here bringing it up.  I really don't see how Brother Andrew's harrowing struggles smuggling Bibles....

As I explained earlier, I was only bringing that up to if there are limits of everyone's insistence on always obeying man's laws.

I totally admit that in most cases nowadays, the way VPW collected together gems than helped thousands (including me) would not be acceptable. In the days he did this over 60 years ago, and in the place he did this I think it was acceptable. It was in God's family, far away from the marketplace of real books and academia. I see an exception there. Even if I'm wrong, I still benefit from the gems.

 

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4 minutes ago, Mike said:

As I explained earlier, I was only bringing that up to if there are limits of everyone's insistence on always obeying man's laws.

I totally admit that in most cases nowadays, the way VPW collected together gems than helped thousands (including me) would not be acceptable. In the days he did this over 60 years ago, and in the place he did this I think it was acceptable. It was in God's family, far away from the marketplace of real books and academia. I see an exception there. Even if I'm wrong, I still benefit from the gems.

 

Mike, that's lazy conjecture, not analytical or anything approaching objective or rational.

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22 minutes ago, Mike said:

In the days he did this over 60 years ago, and in the place he did this I think it was acceptable. It was in God's family, far away from the marketplace of real books and academia.

In God's family we obey God's rules. 

With God there is no 60 years ago this was okay, but today its wrong.

With God there is no in these fields this is wrong and everywhere else its right.

God's rules are absolute: we're in fellowship or we're not,  we've followed his rules or we didn't, stealing occured or it didn't

There's no rationalizing, no loopholes, and no fudging with God. Rationalizing, loopholes, and fudging are by-products of the human mind.

Edited by So_crates

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But wait, so then every time someone quotes someone else in a comment, is that plagiarism....or not because there's no copyright notice ?

( Copyright GoldStar 2018 ) <- Just in case....

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4 minutes ago, GoldStar said:

But wait, so then every time someone quotes someone else in a comment, is that plagiarism....or not because there's no copyright notice ?

( Copyright GoldStar 2018 ) <- Just in case....

First, there's an attribution to the source of the quote.

Second, you registered with the forum knowing your quotes would be used.

(If you didn't want your quotes used, you didn't have to register with the forum)

Edited by So_crates

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19 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Mike, that's lazy conjecture, not analytical or anything approaching objective or rational.

Actually, it's more like an accident of history. It evolved over a 45 year span.

I never got analytical about it while it was happening.  It might also be lazy. I'm getting old and I only wan to fight certain battles. This one is history. The gems did get collected together, and uniquely IMO, and they did get distributed, against all odds IMO.   So here I am living out my lazy semi-retirement enjoying the benefits.

It's done. The books did get distributed world wide and on the world wide web. We'll see who benefits.

 

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36 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Why are you afraid that someone might disagree with you?

Of course not, didn't you read that I have my super-duper multi-coated polycarbonate rock-deflector already in place?

38 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Wouldn't it have made more sense for God to tell Wierwille to either ask permission or give proper credit to authors he borrowed from?

I don't know, you'd have to ask God himself, although I do appreciate that you have such high regard for me that you would ask ME, that's sweet....

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1 hour ago, Rocky said:

 

Mike, that's lazy conjecture...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mike, please stop conjecturing, some people don't like that :(

You might try conjuring, that might give others that witch they wish for ? :)

 

Edited by GoldStar

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15 minutes ago, Mike said:

Actually, it's more like an accident of history. It evolved over a 45 year span.

I never got analytical about it while it was happening.  It might also be lazy. I'm getting old and I only wan to fight certain battles. This one is history. The gems did get collected together, and uniquely IMO, and they did get distributed, against all odds IMO.   So here I am living out my lazy semi-retirement enjoying the benefits.

It's done. The books did get distributed world wide and on the world wide web. We'll see who benefits.

 

Umm... not necessarily. It's YOUR fictive retelling (or at least interpretation) of things you want to be the history.

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15 minutes ago, GoldStar said:

Of course not, didn't you read that I have my super-duper multi-coated polycarbonate rock-deflector already in place?

I don't know, you'd have to ask God himself, although I do appreciate that you have such high regard for me that you would ask ME, that's sweet....

Oh... how silly of me to read the underlying meaning. :spy:

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Well, you really shouldn't be lying under or over...

But no worries, you're forgiven, God told me to tell you....

I know it was him because I saw a snow plow

it was parked in front of a gas pump

Edited by GoldStar

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4 hours ago, Mike said:

My question was not did he broke laws, but do you forgive him easily?  Do you expect God to cover for him easily?

GodStar's reference to Peter and the apostles indicates that man's laws are not as sacrosanct as many posters here make them out to be. It's by man's laws that intellectual property is substantial enough to be considered property.   I don't see the teaching of God's Word being something covet-able as property is within ancient Biblical communities nor within rural 1950s Ohio.

In light of Romans 13, I tend to think that the laws of the land (man’s laws) are part and parcel of the institution of government – something that was established by God a long time ago. Just wanted to mention that in response to another of Mike’s conveniently contrived and misleading assumptions…That’s about all I’ll say on that  – but if anyone is interested in some more details to think about, please check out a post of mine in doctrinal where I reference two commentaries and a theological dictionary about Romans 13 – see All Governments are from God?   

Of note is the point made in the Evangelical Commentary , that at times believers may feel enjoined to disobey government authorities if there is a conflict with the expressed will of God…we find such is the case in Acts 4   the apostles were directed by the Holy Spirit to preach about Jesus even though it was contrary to what the rulers and elders wanted…that is NOT the issue being addressed on this thread;

one of the issues on this thread which several posters have expressed is a totally different situation – when  God’s moral law is being mirrored in man’s law – such as lying and stealing being wrong…this seems to be something Mike does not understand…to be honest – I have to say, once again his feeble attempts to whitewash wierwille’s plagiarism hit me as a rabid-ready-defense-system for his “hero” –

maybe that’s just me as I think about his fantasy “thesis” of PFAL being god-breathed (you can review that thread yourself   is PLAF theopneustos-god-breathed?  ) and his tendency to be dishonest in discussions – see  this post  on the thread a couple of questions .

Edited by T-Bone
formatting

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11 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Umm... not necessarily. It's YOUR fictive retelling

Mike, please stop fictive retelling...

Fictive sounds too much like vindictive and as we all know, being vindictive is not nice!

Try predictive retelling, which is kind of like a prophetic deja vu

Which is kind of like going back to the future, except if you go faster than 88 miles per hour, you get there before you actually get there, which produces a kind of doppleganger effect of your own self which puts a small warp in the space-time continuum (easily repaired with superglue)

Edited by GoldStar

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I'm exhausted with this subject.

But is a done deal. The books are out there, paper and digital.

I think they will bless people who find them.

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7 minutes ago, Mike said:

The books are out there, paper and digital.

I think they will bless people who find them

Of course they'll bless the people that'll find them.

Like Saint Vic blessed the authors he plaigerized.

Like Saint Vic blessed the women he forced himself on.

  • Upvote 2

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the post - she's a duplicate   :rolleyes:

Edited by T-Bone

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12 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

In light of Romans 13, I tend to think that the laws of the land (man’s laws) are part and parcel of the institution of government – something that was established by God a long time ago

I am curious, do you believe that Romans 13 refers to the government of man, not the government of God?

I myself do not think of the government as being:

"for he is the minister of God" - Romans 13:4

That sounds to me like the government of God

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10 minutes ago, Mike said:

I'm exhausted with this subject.

...(SNIP)

translation = he's exhausted his smokescreen supply

  • Upvote 1

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8 minutes ago, GoldStar said:

I am curious, do you believe that Romans 13 refers to the government of man, not the government of God?

I myself do not think of the government as being:

"for he is the minister of God" - Romans 13:4

That sounds to me like the government of God

I think Romans 13 refers to the institution of government as established by God - and there's a lot to that chapter - please read the post I referred to previously - you can get there from here 

Edited by T-Bone

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