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The Wierwille Legacy: Who Will Write The Book?

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On 1/5/2018 at 8:04 PM, Mike said:

Sounds like he was imitating Craig. A lot of new Corps would do that, even to the point of sporting a mustache similar to his at one time. I looked forward to them maturing, but it didn't happen.

Who imitated VP directly.  So much so that in the corpse he taught us and gave us a book called "VP and Me".  This highlighted how he did exactly what VP said all the time - how if he said jump he said how high.  He even claimed that his level of doing the exact same things like VP were why VP selected him for the next president.

Did you ever read that book?  Maybe you'd think it was "God-breathed" too, and if people would just have followed it the Way ministry's leadership wouldn't have collapsed.

That would be consistent with your line of logic.

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4 hours ago, chockfull said:

That would be consistent with your line of logic.

You need to rid yourself of a few misconceptions you have regarding my line of logic. After these are cleared up, then you'll be in a better position to judge consistency.

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42 minutes ago, Mike said:

You need to rid yourself of a few misconceptions you have regarding my line of logic. After these are cleared up, then you'll be in a better position to judge consistency.

Au contraire.  Why would it make sense that God would inspire a "God-breathed work" in PFAL, but with the guy most trying to train up what he did to produce it God would ignore that guy and not inspire him?  Why?  Does God respect persons?  Also, the Loy produced a book himself on Acts.  Based upon VP's teachings on the 8 great statements in the book of Acts.  Was that "God-breathed"?  Why or why not?  Now that piece is "God-breathed"?  Or not because he plagiarized it from VP and it wasn't in the "original"?

You see when God is at work all the little things fall in line and make sense.  When delusions are at work, there are all these pesky questions left over.

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55 minutes ago, Mike said:

You need to rid yourself of a few misconceptions you have regarding my line of logic. After these are cleared up, then you'll be in a better position to judge consistency.

No, you need to rid yourself of a few misconceptions you have about my judgement. After those are cleared up you'll be in a better position to see your line of logic.

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43 minutes ago, So_crates said:

No, you need to rid yourself of a few misconceptions you have about my judgement. After those are cleared up you'll be in a better position to see your line of logic.

I can buy that.

I can make mistakes in how I take in what you write. Please do clear up any I may manifest to you.

Actually, when I said that to chockful an hour ago, I was a bit sloppy in my addressing.

Some of you HAVE allowed me to clear up several minor misconceptions lately. I can’t remember who, and I’m sorry for that.

So, So_crates, I may owe you the same apology that I may owe chockfull.

I’m slowly getting to know who is who and who said what, but it’s complicated.

 

ptions.

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1 hour ago, chockfull said:

Au contraire.  Why would it make sense that God would inspire a "God-breathed work" in PFAL, but with the guy most trying to train up what he did to produce it God would ignore that guy and not inspire him?  Why?  Does God respect persons? 

I can't understand the highlighted text. Could you expand it a little?

 

Also, the Loy produced a book himself on Acts.  Based upon VP's teachings on the 8 great statements in the book of Acts.  Was that "God-breathed"?  Why or why not? 

Loy book NOT God-breathed. That job was given to VPW, and it was completed. We can use written PFAL to "rule" on the Loy book's merits or lack thereof.

There are some writings of VPW that are NOT God-breathed.

He states this on page 83 of the PFAL book, and in the film class.  I have not gotten to the point of knowing exactly which ones. That's complicated, and I just don't know ... yet. What I have committed to is core "writings that came with the class" to paraphrase VPW in his last teaching.

 

Now that piece is "God-breathed"?  Or not because he plagiarized it from VP and it wasn't in the "original"?

You see when God is at work all the little things fall in line and make sense.  When delusions are at work, there are all these pesky questions left over.

 During times of good change, all sorts of confusions can creep in. I suggest some new methods for dealing with pesky problems. Sometimes pesky problems prevail for those who focus on them too much. Such focus would be the opposite imbalance of whitewashing, wouldn't it?  

 

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12 minutes ago, Mike said:

There are some writings of VPW that are NOT God-breathed.

Let's pretend your right. Once again we arrive at that pesky problem: How do we know which writings are God-breathe and which are not?

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Just now, So_crates said:

Let's pretend your right. Once again we arrive at that pesky problem: How do we know which writings are God-breathe and which are not?

I have a paper folder file on this topic that I add scraps of paper to whenever I have an idea on it or see some passage that sheds light.

This folder was started about 15 years ago.  If you have anything to add, I'm open to suggestions. This is a relatively unworked subject on my desk so far.

You're right. It is a pesky problem. I used to intensely study, back in the 70s, this exact same problem as it came up in the first century.  There were a lot of fights for 400 years as to which books should be or not be included in the Canon. My paper folder on this topic is 2 and 1/2 inches thick.

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7 minutes ago, Mike said:

I have a paper folder file on this topic that I add scraps of paper to whenever I have an idea on it or see some passage that sheds light.

This folder was started about 15 years ago.  If you have anything to add, I'm open to suggestions. This is a relatively unworked subject on my desk so far.

You're right. It is a pesky problem. I used to intensely study, back in the 70s, this exact same problem as it came up in the first century.  There were a lot of fights for 400 years as to which books should be or not be included in the Canon. My paper folder on this topic is 2 and 1/2 inches thick.

So then you admit there's no way of knowing whether PLAF is God-breathe or not.

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1 hour ago, Mike said:

I used to intensely study, back in the 70s...

Mike, I do feel rather sorry for you.  You are clearly committed to trying to ascertain God's honest truth.  You have spent years of your life doing so. But you are looking in the wrong place. 

 

Quote

John 5:37 The Father who sent Me has Himself testified about Me. You have not heard His voice at any time, and you haven't seen His form.  38You don't have His word living in you, because you don't believe the One He sent.  39You pore over the Scriptures because you think you have eternal life in them, yet they testify about Me.  40And you are not willing to come to Me so that you may have life.

 

or in your case:

37The Father who sent Me has Himself testified about Me. You have not heard His voice at any time, and you haven't seen His form.  38You don't have His word living in you, because you don't believe the One He sent.  39You pore over PFAL because you think you have eternal life in it, yet it's the scriptures that testify about Me.  40And you are not willing to come to Me through the scriptures, so that you may have life.

 

I can't help feel that if you studied the Scriptures, by means of different Bible versions, and some reputable commentaries (or even some disreputable ones!), you would have a wider understanding.  I wonder if you have any decent Bible software tools so that you can study more easily?  Can I recommend the online programs (apps) BibleHub, or Blue Letter Bible?  They're both good, easy to navigate, and have a lot of research features.  They're free to download.  There are other programs available.  You can research individual verses, themes, topics, do word studies, get historical background, access dozens of commentaries, compare different versions, and find more complex or more simple versions.  In fact, by comparing different versions, you'd be surprised at how little variation there is in them, if you extract the thought that the words represent.

 

Edited by Twinky

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5 hours ago, So_crates said:

So then you admit there's no way of knowing whether PLAF is God-breathe or not.

No. I'm being honest with you in saying I don't know it all.

I'm settled on some of the books and magazine articles. There are some booklets I'm not sure of. Also, the the Preface to ADAN is by Karen Martin. Don't fully know about that either. Interestingly, there is a huge quote of Kenyon in OMSW.

I mentioned that I was very interested in the similar subject when it occurred in the early centuries. I am very interested in how all this works. I study it a lot.  I make mistakes and there are gaps in my knowledge.

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4 hours ago, Twinky said:

... I can't help feel that if you studied the Scriptures, by means of different Bible versions, and some reputable commentaries (or even some disreputable ones!), you would have a wider understanding.  I wonder if you have any decent Bible software tools so that you can study more easily?  Can I recommend the online programs (apps) BibleHub, or Blue Letter Bible?  They're both good, easy to navigate, and have a lot of research features.  They're free to download.  There are other programs available.  You can research individual verses, themes, topics, do word studies, get historical background, access dozens of commentaries, compare different versions, and find more complex or more simple versions.  In fact, by comparing different versions, you'd be surprised at how little variation there is in them, if you extract the thought that the words represent.

 

Twinky,

Thank you for your concern and the heart I felt in your post.

I spent many years studying my KJV and many other versions. My Cambridge wide margin is stuffed with happy notes. I go to it at times for extended readings and context, but not as much as my earlier years. I still get much exposure to verses and passages as they appear in PFAL.

The love of God comes through in those pages to me.  I'm not worried about missing needed info that only my KJV or other versions have. We ALL miss many portions of our Bibles, and we all must rely on God that we find portions of His Word we NEED the most in these remaining years. 

There's no way my simply coming back to Bible versions will cover all that is needed. There's just too much info there that needs too much filtering.  A lifetime can't cover it all.

Written PFAL is simple and easy to read, and needs not constant textual corrections, and frequent augmentation like Orientalisms and Figures of Speech. 

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4 hours ago, Twinky said:

... by comparing different versions, you'd be surprised at how little variation there is in them, if you extract the thought that the words represent.

When I was a twig leader one teaching I would do was to take about 3 verses and have a tall stack of Bible versions to my side. I’d read each verse in every Bible (using bookmarks) and show how much the agreed on most things. The Bibles in that stack belonged to me and I still have them.

 

The problem I have with the Bibles is much more in their translations than in the ancient texts. I do think IN PRINCIPLE they are tattered remnants, but I know there is much agreement there also. This is a subtle subject, but the translation issue is not. The opportunities the adversary had over 2000 years to subtly infiltrate academic institutions are immense.  

 

Here we have another extended subject, though. We will have to come back to this sometime.

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5 hours ago, Twinky said:

Mike, I do feel rather sorry for you.  You are clearly committed to trying to ascertain God's honest truth.  You have spent years of your life doing so. But you are looking in the wrong place.

Do you believe Mike has any idea WHY he might be thusly committed? I'm not even sure Mike knows.

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Ephesians 4:14... Mike, your writing (at GSC) suggests you emulate the pinball. Unless you take the time to emulate the Pinball Wizard, you'll never accomplish your claimed goal.

Edited by Rocky

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On 11/11/2017 at 5:00 PM, Grace Valerie Claire said:

David, and Sky, thanks for the information.  Sky, it never dawned on me, that teaching a "live class" would be so hard for VPW.  Gee, wasn't he "The Teacher?"  Teachers teach "live classes" for years, and years.  Most of the teachers I had were happy (I hope!) When I asked questions.  I used to ask a lot of thoughtful(to me anyway) questions in various classes I took.  Can you imagine someone asking VPW a question about the Bible??  He might not have been able to answer it; God forbid should he have said "I don't know?"  I would have thought that VPW would have known that he wasn't capable of teaching a real class, and not pretended otherwise.  Perhaps he realized during the filming of that class in 1977, that many students would see through his facade, and know that he ran a bogus Ministry, if he continued to film a live class.

Why didn't Walter Cummins teach the class instead of VPW? Wierdwillies arrogance would not allow him

  • Upvote 1

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1 hour ago, Thomas Loy Bumgarner said:

Why didn't Walter Cummins teach the class instead of VPW? Wierdwillies arrogance would not allow him

Thomas, I think you are right; VPW was arrogant as Hell.

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On 1/9/2018 at 4:19 PM, Mike said:

You need to rid yourself of a few misconceptions you have regarding my line of logic. After these are cleared up, then you'll be in a better position to judge consistency.

Mike, I know this question isn't directed to me, but I am still going to butt in.  There are only three things I "need" to do: I need to pay, my Income Taxes.  I need to die.  I will let you find-out for yourself, what the third one is.

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